Bulletin to watch: CBS-FM days from switching back to OLDIES!

[oaktree]

This is the one to watch in New York over the next few days, according to Jim Carnegie's "Radio/TV Business Report" (RBR) in today's issue:

WCBS-FM going back to Oldies

Word on the street is that WCBS-FM NY is heading back to Oldies next week.[EDIT]

This news comes via a most reliable source known to many radio insiders in both broadcast publishing and programming.

The RBR publication is subscription only. Headline reported this morning.

You heard it here first...and I wouldn't post this if I didn't have complete faith in the two sources reporting it.


[EDIT-post truncated because originating material appears to be copyrighted
Unauthorized use of such content is in violation of Radio-Info's
TOS.]

 

[davideduardo]

This is the one to watch in New York over the next few days, according to Jim Carnegie's "Radio/TV Business Report" (RBR) in today's issue:

WCBS-FM going back to Oldies

While a move was needed to "fix" Jack, I'm not convinced that the conclusion that RBR makes about putting together the same liners, music and talent will happen. I think the "dark" period allows them to come back as a more 70's station, with a bit of the 60's flavor... and talent that is not so old and worn out in the market. Whether Mason is pro-oldies or not, he is definitely able to see why oldies in its past form was tanking in billing and sales demos.

If true, this will be fun to see... whether they modify the format or not.

 

[menotti1]

wonder what they will call it, classic hits or oldies...

 

[LinoNYC]

"This is the one to watch in New York over the next few days, according to Jim Carnegie's "Radio/TV Business Report" (RBR) in today's issue:"

I don't think anyone should get their hopes up for a true oldies station, even if this rumor is true.

It does make sense on one level: when WCBS was oldies it, and WLTW were the most popular background stations in public locations.

With Arbitron's new PPM which picks-up and credits incidental listening It seems logical that any station that does well as background would satisfy advertisers and what seems to be their new criteria for "exposure".

'Still seems odd though, "Jack" is targeted younger.

Lino

 

[oaktree]

Joel Denver's "All-Access" just picked up the story at 6 p.m. New York time...

 

[amfmsw]

But I thought all of you consultants were infallible, Selling to Boomers is a waste of time. No one markets to them anymore. We're too old. We don't buy things or change brands. And we were assured Oldies, even a '70's format, was too old and too hard to sell.

Hey Chrysler...still wanna market Hemi V-8's to Women 18-34? Yeah. they're lined up around the corner waiting to buy '60's retro Chargers and Challengers. Sure, stations like CBS-FM were perfect for what we have to sell, but our Marketing Dept. and Agency buyers say we need a younger, female demo.

I'm amazed that the format may comeback to 101.1, but I'm afraid it will have the same success as WFIL did in Philly. You've disenchanted the market, expended you're precious goodwill by throwing people like Dan Imgram and Cousin Brucie into the street with no notice.

Good luck, I hope it works.

 

[davideduardo]

With Arbitron's new PPM which picks-up and credits incidental listening It seems logical that any station that does well as background would satisfy advertisers and what seems to be their new criteria for "exposure".

The PPM is hardly "new" as it has been in development for over a decade and in field tests for 6 or 7 years; short-term incidental listening does not affect station ranks... it just grows cume. A station's P1 listeners, like always, will determine most of the listening.

 

[oaktree]

Hmmm. Bit of a difference in this case, for other reasons.

First, WFIL was never known or positioned as (in it's day) an "oldies" station or, today's hip term "Classic Hits."

Second, by the time Famous 56 was reincarnated as an "oldies" station in 1983, the FM market had already kicked AM to the curb and, lets not forget, the incarnations of 'FIL as A/C (1977,) then country, and back didn't help in the disenfranchisement of listeners, especially "AM" listeners who were now "FM" listeners.

Plus, by that time, the "names" had already gone elsewhere.

But at this point, considering the CBS-FM possibility ... no one has stated that it "might" be an "oldies" station again. It "might" be Classic Hits and might evolve to not skew 55+ ... with a lower demographic, brining in a taste of the 60s, lots of 70s and a touch, maybe, of the 80s.

It won't, I believe, your Mom's radio station.

But let's hope it's more than an HD2 jukebox like now...

 

[davideduardo]

But I thought all of you consultants were infallible, Selling to Boomers is a waste of time. No one markets to them anymore. We're too old. We don't buy things or change brands. And we were assured Oldies, even a '70's format, was too old and too hard to sell.

Nobody has said a Classic Hits format is bad; it is very 40-54, and highly, enormously salable.

On the other hand, 50's oldies are the sales kiss of death; 60's makes a station balance swing predominantly 55+.

Hey Chrysler...still wanna market Hemi V-8's to Women 18-34? Yeah. they're lined up around the corner waiting to buy '60's retro Chargers and Challengers. Sure, stations like CBS-FM were perfect for what we have to sell, but our Marketing Dept. and Agency buyers say we need a younger, female demo.

Agency buyers do not determine demos... demos for media buys are specified by the agency client, based on product design and market research. No matter how much you whine, there are essentially no buys for 55+ coming out of America's agencies for radio campaigns.

If a station focused entirely on 55+, and got 100% of the audience, it would get only an occasional agency buy and a bunch of low rate direct buys... because there is practically no interest in over-55's because clients know the ROI on such ad expenditures is poor or nonexistent.

 

[Rockin Rob]

IF....and that's a big if..... CBS-FM returns from the dead, they will probably sound more like WOGL/Philly. For a preview, www.wogl.com. Heavy on the 70's, smattering of the 60s (Beatles, Motown, Beach Boys, and the hits) and a slice or two of 80s (Marvin Gaye, Hall and Oates, "Innocent Man"-era Billy Joel, "Kokomo" - however those in not so heavy rotation).

 

[LinoNYC]

With Arbitron's new PPM which picks-up and credits incidental listening It seems logical that any station that does well as background would satisfy advertisers and what seems to be their new criteria for "exposure".

The PPM is hardly "new" as it has been in development for over a decade and in field tests for 6 or 7 years; short-term incidental listening does not affect station ranks... it just grows cume. A station's P1 listeners, like always, will determine most of the listening.

Perhaps not, but the fact that even incidental "exposure" will now be counted as listening is new.

Quoting you from the other thread:

Advertisers want to know who is exposed to advertising. They really do not care if there was interest in the vehicle that caused a message to be exposed... just that it was heard. This is why TSL is no longer called that... it is ATE and AWTE, average time exposed and average weekly time exposed. In fact, it has been advertisers who demanded the PPM, not stations... stations have no real desire to up the ratings cost by 60%... buit advertisers wanted a measurement of exposure, not of just remmebered and recalled personal choice listening... because that occasional listening can represent a real difference in the reach of a campaign.

What I don't understand in the WCBS case is that a "Classic Hits" format is likely to have more overlap with their "Fresh" than did "Jack". Is this incorrect?

Lino

 

[RADIOGM]

Expect CBS FM returning from the dead to be a "Classic Hits" format with a pretty good New York style to it musically... Late 60's and lots of 70'S edging into the early 80's. Yes it will play Steve Miller Band but also plays Donna Summer. I wouldn't expect to hear much "Do Wah Diddy" but you will hear "Blinded by the Light". CBS FM will enjoy much more success playing these "Hits" than playing "Jack" radio.

101 cannot go back being what it was as many oldies listeners have moved thru the demo. I applaud Dan Mason and staff with this change.

RGM

 

[rockroll0617]

CBS-FM days from switching back to OLDIES!

This is the one to watch in New York over the next few days, according to Jim Carnegie's "Radio/TV Business Report" (RBR) in today's issue:

WCBS-FM going back to Oldies

While a move was needed to "fix" Jack, I'm not convinced that the conclusion that RBR makes about putting together the same liners, music and talent will happen. I think the "dark" period allows them to come back as a more 70's station, with a bit of the 60's flavor... and talent that is not so old and worn out in the market. Whether Mason is pro-oldies or not, he is definitely able to see why oldies in its past form was tanking in billing and sales demos.

If true, this will be fun to see... whether they modify the format or not.

Agree. To return to the Harry Harrison-type Oldies station would be a huge mistake.
CBS-FM's image of just plain being to "old" (fed by having jocks in their 60s and 70s
as part of their mix) had a lot to do with the format flip. On the other hand, Dan is
a guy who likes/believes in Oldies as much as the previous administration didn't.

I also think there's a lot of wishful thinking about the dribble of discussion about the
Philly PPM "helping the Oldies format". One or two markets does not a trend make.

 

[lalumia]

I was right ALL along... I love being mE!(...how fabulous that the captains of industry read and study and react to my imperial proclamations!!!)
I HAVE SPOKEN>>>>
(next project; getting Iggy, The New York Dolls, and Wayne County records played on the 'new' K ROCK;'

 

[lalumia]

it's called 'survival mode';
he, himself is a consultant, isn't he?...
hope the first record CBS FM plays is "Hit The Road, Jack", by Ray Charles...
and mega Supremes/Vandellas/Marvelettes...Motown!!!

 

[davideduardo]

I just wish he would pick one story and stick to it, or admit when he was wrong.

Alas, you don't get that.

What you do not get is that "Classic Hits" and "oldies" are two separate formats. One is increasingly unviable today, save a few isolated instances and small, unrated markets. The other is extremely viable, as it appeals to a separate and younger demo which agencies want and do buy.

You are obfuscating, trying to equate two separate formats, in order to hurl invectivce at people who do know what they are doing.

 

[davideduardo]

Glad he doesn't consult for me.

Since you own no stations in top 100 markets, there is no chance of me even being considered.

Since you own no stations at all, it is understandable that you can't even tell two different formats with different demos apart.

Even your "handle" is strange... a failed AM that was silenced to expand the coverage or a real radio staiton...

 

[Starscream]

I'll take this opportunity to apologize for saying that Oldies would never come back.

As proven by O&A and Ron and Fez coming back, that you should really never say never in this business.

 

[OldiesCat]

Friendly reminder

I just wish he would pick one story and stick to it, or admit when he was wrong.

Before all of you fill your Depends at the prospect of CBS-FM flipping back to Oldies (or some brand of Oldies), perhaps it would be a good idea to wait until they actually flip back (if they do at all) before you accuse somebody of being "wrong".

 

[jimbo]

shooting the messenger

I just wish he would pick one story and stick to it, or admit when he was wrong.

It must be a case of shooting the messenger. I have seen David Eduardo explain time and again over many different boards how ad agencies buy radio inventory and how the oldies format simply does not have the younger demos that advertisers desire. I can't imagine Apple buying oldies radio to introduce the I-phone. The average I-phone buyer is going to be 31 years old and I doubt many 31 year olds spend time listening to oldies radio. ( source: http://tinyurl.com/2cjyy7 )

No matter how nicely David (and Oldies Cat) explain the radio-facts-of-life things they get flamed as if they are oldies heretics. It must be hard for boomers to age gracefully as we observe radio, which has catered to boomers for the last 30 years, wave buh-bye to us.

So as terrestrial radio waves bye to me I wave bye to them and we're both happy. I got XM and Sirius so I get my oldies fix coast to coast like butter on toast.