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Can Oldies come back for the New Year ?

I have to agree that oldies will not likely return on a major stick in NYC - and even though it's estimated that CBS will loose more than 15 million on the change in the first year, CBS is not likely to admit they made a mistake... if in fact it is a mistake. And I don’t think that it was a mistake -- more likely a jump into a format that didn't have legs.

But I have to object to the "oldies being dead" thing...

In many markets it IS ... however, as an agency owner and media buyer, I point to stations where "oldies" (not classic hits) is still a factor.

Some respectable markets too ... a random look at a half dozen markets where it's still working:

Cleveland (25) oldies #1
Boston (11) oldies #5
Providence (36) oldies #5
Fredericksburg VA (154) oldies #3
Philadelphia (6) oldies #4
St Louis (4) oldies #5

Large markets and small…These are 25-54 numbers - still a hot demo. Could I buy around them - certainly? Would I want to? Not likely. Because psychograpically, these people are passionate and listen to the radio in a different way -- they actively listen (compared to "hearing") ... and they respond to the advertiser in a different way.

I handle several national clients. I will not blow off an oldies station simply because of the format. If the station offers me slammin’ 25-54 numbers, I’m buying.
 
rockyraccoon said:
I don't know anything about the market in New York. I'm from Knoxville, Tennessee which is a very small radio market compared to New York. Heck, here in Tennessee, if it's not Country then it don't get any ratings at all. This is the state where if it has fur and 4 legs then people will shoot it and eat it. But seriously back to radio. Sure the Oldies format draws older listeners. But this is where ALL the stations go wrong. They market the whole format towards the older listeners. What they don't realize is that this music is from probably the greatest time period in rock n roll history and the music has the power to appeal to any age group. Take The Beatles for instance. Every time something from The Beatles comes out - even 36 years after they broke up - it's immediately a top seller. Young and old alike enjoy the music. If a station would just wake up and do the format the right way, and present the music in a fresh way, they could draw in younger listeners. Oldies is a type of music that will never loose it's appeal to the public - why do you think advertisers keep recycling old songs for new products. The problem is that the broadcast companies just don't know how to do the format right. Here in Knoxville we had an oldies station in the top 5 each ratings period. It had a huge following with teenagers all the way to 60 year olds. They flipped to Jack last year and now the station doesn't even get within the top 15. Of course again, New York is different - and a little more civilized! ;)
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Finally someone gets the darned message.If oldies is dead fred then why are they Advertising in tv almost always using older songs?I'm not bieng disrespectful however if the oldies format was done right it could succeed anywhere even in madison avenue.Look at cleveland,ohio.#1 rated station in that market is in fact an oldies station.Again no disrespect intended but oldies can work if done right.
 
media buyer said:
In many markets it IS ... however, as an agency owner and media buyer, I point to stations where "oldies" (not classic hits) is still a factor.

Providence (36) oldies #5
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If you're referring to B101 (WWBB 101.5), it isn't an oldies station any more. It's been classic hits for the last few years... unless your definition of oldies includes songs like "I Love Rock 'n Roll" and "Hit Me With Your Best Shot".
 
Yep you're right encarta - I goofed on one out of six. (Not one of the markets I buy in – but Radio and Records still lists the station as “oldies”) The remaining five markets mentioned still back my contention. And there are dozens more like those markets. Is oldies a format of the future? Nope. But it's still a viable sell in many markets. That was my only point…
 
Give it up. Oldies as a format is dead in the water. Many of the stations listed in the previous postings do have great numbers..but are they hitting their budgets anymore? I doubt it. Cleveland is an exeption, but that is mostly due to a big morning show. If that show were to leave, the numbers and revenue would follow. Oldies may develop into the new "music of your life" format and work in some markets on AM. Otherwise, look for it on satellite or internet only radio. Watch for the remaining few Oldies statiions to flip to something else in the near future.
 
radiodood said:
Give it up. Oldies as a format is dead in the water. Many of the stations listed in the previous postings do have great numbers..but are they hitting their budgets anymore? I doubt it. Cleveland is an exeption, but that is mostly due to a big morning show. If that show were to leave, the numbers and revenue would follow. Oldies may develop into the new "music of your life" format and work in some markets on AM. Otherwise, look for it on satellite or internet only radio. Watch for the remaining few Oldies statiions to flip to something else in the near future.
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Try this one:

http://www.musicofyourlife.com

For those of you are checking out oldies on web streams, I'll give you a choice on these sites:

http://www.albanymagic.com

Try Magic 100.9 in Albany, they got the best oldies as well as the jingles used for WCBS-FM as part of the jingle package called "Do It Again". The voiceover announcer on Magic 100.9 is none other than Ziggy. Ziggy has been on WCBS-FM forever, he is also on WBPM's "Cool 92.9" in the Hudson Valley doing the same voiceover with liners.

There is also another one you'll might find.

http://www.wtry.com

WTRY is another competitor to WKLI's "Magic 100.9" where they playing the same oldies, just like WCBS-FM for so many years as an oldies station.

There are other oldies stations that don't stream in the Hudson Valley, WBPM "Cool 92.9" and WCZR "Cruisin' 93.5". Those are the stations that doesn't stream online. :(
 
WKLI Magic 100.9 has a decent sounding hi-rez stream, usual crappy resing of the CBS-FM package) but the website header has pictures of Barbra Streisand, Johnny Mathis and a really odd looking picture of Dean Martin as their core artists (OK, now it has updated to The Beatles and Dionne Warwick). Their imaging is terribly busy with the station using "light-fm", "magic 100.9", "the greatest hits of all time", "the greatest songs of all time", "your nice and easy station" all within a half hour!! It sounds like they are playing every liner ever recorded for this station in its history.

heard:
(tail end of an MOR 50s record that I can't place at this hour)
Robert John - Sad Eyes
Elvis Presley - The Wonder of You
John Lennon - Imagine
Michael Buble - Sway
Legal ID Weather at 2:45
Sonny & Cher - I Got You Babe (always reminds me of "Groundhog Day")
Jim Croce - Time In A Bottle
Dee Clark - Raindrops
Stevie Wonder - I Just Called (To Say I Love You)
Herb Alpert & The TJB as a fill record into CBS news!

Nothing that great. Typical Albany, NY radio.

CJ
 
I think Oldies as we knew them on FM is going to be a thing of the past. Here in Connecticut we had Kool 96.7 until they changed to their "Jill-FM" like moniker calling themselves "Coast 96.7" When they were oldies they had a reasonable presentation and was fairly decent for the cubicle crowd to listen to.

Oldies are going to be a secondary audience and I'm surprised that any FM station is embracing it at all given the focus on demos. WKLI Magic 100.9, mentioned by Jack Garrett above, sounds like they're a little of a hodge podge with their chaotic imaging (stick with one slogan, guys!) and a fairly vanilla playlist staying on the cautious side of safe. It's been a long time since I've sampled upstate NY radio so I don't know what they have to compete with so I can't personally say if this is "typical" for the area, but all bets would say this would be some sort of panacea for the Manhattan audience that misses oldies. I honestly don't see people running out and buying HD radios to get the CBS-FM HD2 stream in their cars or homes (hell, I can't find many retailers who even have a clue on HD Radio!).

Getting back to the thread at hand, the only chance I see of NYC getting oldies back on the radio is a smaller station outside of the city picking it up, but it would more than likely be AM. For all intents and purposes it appears that Oldies are gone from the NYC dial, albeit WABC's Saturday Night Show is there for people who care to listen - are there any numbers available on Mark's show?

For you oldies fans, let me add my stream to the fray.

Bill
CapitalRadio.us
 
For whatever it's worth, most music formats on radio are terminal and will be gone from terrestrial radio in five to 10 years. What will remain is talk formats and minority formats (Urban, Hispanic).
AM will be brokered, religion or foreign language (or shut down completely).
The viable AM stations will move to FM (its already starting to happen).
Broadcast radio is coming up on its 90th anniversary. Nothing lasts forever.

PS: "Media Buyer" again mentions ratings as evidence that the Oldies format is alive and well. How about some sales figures and revenue numbers? Go the bank with an Arbitron book and see what you get.
 
http://www.clearchannelmusic.com/hdradio/ This is a link to the major CC HDradio-2nd channel formats from across the nation streamed right to your computer. The Oldies music on both the 50's, 60's or 60's, 70's channels is top notch and sounding great. The oldies format is alive and well! It's just moving on up to the eastside! Clear Channel; I thought I would "NEVER" say this but, Your HD-2 radio streams are sounding great "and may the Hits Just Keep On Coming" Kool Chrome Super 50's & 60's KQLL Tulsa is rocking the dial! Now when will the public really be able to buy a radio and not feel like they are being held-up? I never said I was going to be too nice!
 
The biggest problem with many of today's remaining oldies stations is nobody seems to have any FUN playing them. We're talking about music that was recorded at a time when music was designed to be played around guys with big voices being loud and brackish. Sandwiching the songs between uber-vanilla "good times, great oldies" (barf) liners and wimpy jingles is not the best was to contextually present the material, if you get my drift. A big pile of peanut butter and jelly is nothing more than a big pile of peanut butter and jelly. It doesn't become a PB&J sammich until you add the bread.

As a happy XM subscriber (and long time Terry Young fan) I will say that their 60s on 6 does an admirable job of presenting the product in the proper framing, although my own personal taste buds would be happy with less bombardment of trivia and the like (if I wanted trivia every five minutes, I'd play Trivial Pursuit with five other people).

While I was sad to CBS-FM go, I wasn't exactly heartbroken. To begin with, I was never a huge fan of their music mix (at times, it was downright Sybil-like, especially towards the end) and once they started doing things like letting Harry go and turning off the reverb, you knew it was just a matter of time. For me, seeing CBS-FM call it a day was akin to seeing a uncle you sorta liked finally get taken off life support. Sad, because the main thing you remember is all the quarters and candy bars they gave you when you were a kid, but life goes on regardless.

It's unfortunate, but all the talk in this thread about oldies formats being dead that conjure up references to numbers and demos and money, money, money just paint such a dreary picture of the industry right now. There was a time when the concept of radio would conjure up a Rockwell-like image of microphones and records and deejays with big headphones doing something they enjoy (think along the lines of the "Crusin'" LP series), whereas today's discusssions draw up bleak sepia-toned jagged renderings of Munch's Scream.

There was a time when big cars were looked upon romantically, too. What can you do.
 
I personally think oldies could work in NYC on the am dial. What would be even better would to bring on as many as possible of the old WABC gang; even replaying some of the classic airchecks within the context of full music priogramming. I believe there is a huge market of 40+ who would love to here the old jingles, reverb and nostagia. The question would be what freq and where? LI, NJ??
 
Oldies thoughts from Pittsburgh PA

Pardon my lack of 100% knowledge of the NY market. I realize that Pgh is thought of as an older market. But with only 1 out of 10 people having satellite radio and the older listeners being the one most likely to listen to radio. The younger listeners listening to CD's, I pods etc. It seem like the Opie and Anthony/ Kid Chris approach is not taking our market by storm. I heard that arbitron is forced to average the numbers of younger listeners(if that's true) It seems that advertisers want to reach people who will respond In Pittsburgh (and I assume portions of NY )they are the people who have the money to buy the goods, products and services & are 50+. This audience simply wants to hear more than the same 500 oldies. Hence the failure of some formats in the past. I operate a small advertising agency in Pgh.
As I drive up next to the cars with younger listeners. They have the cell phone at their ear, dozens of CD's on the visor. I would think billboards and bus boards are the best way to find them. I simply want continued success for my clients. The Oldies diner on wwsw in Pgh with RD Summers, Mike Frazer in afternoon drive. these programs seem to me to be ways to reach active listeners. So the media buyers at these agencies have to remember that just because they have XM or serius 90% do not. And with the growth of I Pods etc, etc that younger segment will be limited. I just spend 1 hour riding with 7 young guys in a new chevy suburban. The driver had 10 preselected xm stations, went through the local fm's like dve and the x and talk 104.7. Guess what everyone in the truck listened to longer ( I did not have an opinion) ESPN 1250 a 5000 watt am and WBGG 970 another 5000 watt am with Mark madden talking on espn and tim benz on bgg talking about the steelers and the penguins.local am will win everytime and good local oldies, or anything good and local will win everytime. that's why they will stay long enough to listen to the commercials. Agencies that buy just numbers of listeners who punch out of the commercials... will never make the cash register ring.
 
Oldies are not dead in the water as previously stated. If done right they will attract a sizable 25- 54 market. For some reason CBS-FM just gave up on the fromat and some "genuis" at CBS thought Jack was the format of the future.
It is not. In L.A. they dumped "the Arrow" KCBS for Jack. The Arrow was not oldies more of a classic rock format. They had some great personalities on the air. You could hear just before the switch someone was trying to destroy the station from within. You would hear a great song from Zeplin or the Stones and the next day hear the same song at about the same time. What about he thousands of other great classic hits and groups? No they reduced the playlist to next to nothing to piss off the listeners and they would turn it off. Then they had an exuse to switch format over to the boring but cheaply run Jack.
Before the switch I thought they were going to put Jack on oldies KRTH-
K-Earth. That station was obviously being programed to destroy listenership. They did the classic routine of going with about a 200 song playlist and almost no personality at all. I remember listening to mid-days and going at least 20 minutes with no live human voice at all. Just promos and jingles between songs. I was surprised when it was the Arrow not KRTH that was destroyed.
I listened to CBS-FM just before thay pulled the plug and it sounded a lot like KRTH. Same songs over & over again and no personality. Nothing that would draw you to the station over your cd palyer or an I-Pod.
There are still some successful oldies stations but they have modernized their sound. KOOL-FM in Phoenix for one is amazingly successful. WHTT in Buffalo is great and now plays mostly late 60's into the early 80's (they do stream if you are interested). They have a lot of great Buffalo personailties on the air which draws people to listen. WSEN in Syracuse gets great numbers and made the switch to modern oldies a while back. They are live 24/7. They do well 25-54, but unfortuately that don't stream but maybe someday they will.
So I guess what I have to say is.... a form of oldies could and should return to the N.Y.C. market. It would take some brain power and effort. A lot of promotion and a good sounding flow of both the personalties and the music played but it could be done,
 
Some 15 years ago, two oldies stations--the venerable KRTH (K-Earth 101) and the then newly christened KCBS-FM--were duking it out in Los Angeles. Though both stations played similar music spun by well-known personalities, K-Earth triumphed as the perennial favorite. Why? Because KRTH was extremely well programmed--the format and sound were tight and slick. Today, KRTH still has respectable ratings.

In Chicago, oldies were replaced by JACK-FM on WJMK, but have reemerged as "True Oldies" on 94.7 (the onetime WLS-FM, now WZZN). Will Scott Shannon's format work in the Windy City? If so, will it come to Gotham? Stay tuned ...
 
disney fanatic said:
Has anybody check out oldies on WCBS-FM in HD2? I got this link here for those of you who have or don't have HD radio. They still play oldies. Here it is.:

http://bdcast-infinity-wcbs-fm.wm.llnwd.net/bdcast_infinity_wcbs-fm
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This stream cuts in and out, and is of poor quality. Too bad, as I would listen to it, with KRTH in LA (where I live) unlistenably boring.

Odd, because the KROQ 80s stream (also a CBS station) is very consistent.
 
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