Can We Stop Calling The 60s/70s/80s Format "Classic Hits"?

[Tom Wells]

All these names and 3-letter combinations.....
I see the need to wear a label as a real cramp to any kind of creativity.
I don't care what year or type of music appeals to me.
1975 and Disco, a watershed year indeed. I was 13-14 in '75.
Which station wants to be first to play "Afternoon Delight" by Starland Vocal Band, or "If you leave me now"...etc.
Not me on my AM, except on a "worst hits of all time" special.
On the other hand Kashmir or Boogie with Stu by Led Zeppelin, or maybe AC/DC by Sweet, I'll gladly hear them now.

There are even a few disco songs which rise above and are worth playing.

Short shorts ("cut-offs" where I come from) are 100% duty summerwear for everything from working at home on whatever you please
to swimwear, but always correct in casual environments. They did not look bad on any physically fit person.

Sadly, America is a far different shape than it was in 1975.
I am happy to be the same height and weight as when I was 16. (1977)
And I feel silly in shorts the way they're made now.
I'll wear knickers, plus fours, regular pants or SHORTS. I don't need any plus-four shorts thank you.


My musical tastes have grown wider and wider but exclude mainstream more and more.
My favorite stations are also those which cannot be "contained" within a defined format.

I find it interesting to see hand-wringing over what to define a station as.

 

[MusicMaestro]

The term "Classic Hits" for Sixties, Seventies and Eighties has my vote. I still wish that stations would loosen up on the playlists. If we feed "My Life" by Billy Joel and "Think of Me" by Todd Rundgren and not much else how are people going to get stations to play more material. Where are the rest of The Carpenters or Captain and Tennille? Where is "Chevy Van" by Sammy Johns? How do listeners tell Classic Hits stations they want more music, more variety? I know it's been discussed as to how playlists are determined but somehow someone gets the ball rolling on a certain song.

Exactly! Playing "Dust In The Wind", "War", "Moondance", "Piano Man", & "Saturday In The Park" twice a day (KKLZ 96.3 in Vegas) is NOT going to keep listeners tuned in! There are hundreds of hits from 1964-1984 to choose from that will fit nicely into the format!

 

[oldies76]

You got it Music Maestro!! Playlists are way to short and repetitive on most oldies & classic hits stations, except for a very few.

 

[davideduardo]

Exactly! Playing "Dust In The Wind", "War", "Moondance", "Piano Man", & "Saturday In The Park" twice a day (KKLZ 96.3 in Vegas) is NOT going to keep listeners tuned in! There are hundreds of hits from 1964-1984 to choose from that will fit nicely into the format!

Jeeze. KKLZ is 0.3 share points away from being #1 en 25-54. Why in the world would they want to change anything?

 

[MusicMaestro]

Exactly! Playing "Dust In The Wind", "War", "Moondance", "Piano Man", & "Saturday In The Park" twice a day (KKLZ 96.3 in Vegas) is NOT going to keep listeners tuned in! There are hundreds of hits from 1964-1984 to choose from that will fit nicely into the format!

Jeeze. KKLZ is 0.3 share points away from being #1 en 25-54. Why in the world would they want to change anything?

Because as you are well aware of, what is up today can be down tomorrow, if you rest on your laurels! (we both can site many dominant stations that were on top/near the top that didn't keep improving their product, & fell from their perch in their market). KKLZ has momentum going forward, & it would be a shame for them to waste it by becoming stagnant! Go KKLZ!!!!!

 

[mleach]

Firepoint I'll give the reason in one word; disco. I think the 1975 limit is too severe; just stop at summer 1977 and right before "Saturday Night Fever". Face it; many of us don't have good memories of the late Seventies (Jimmy Carter, inflation, farm crisis, energy crunch). Disco also died a rapid death. Anything other than disco in that time period was rather slow and like cornbread gruel. Believe me; I was there. The demographic for disco is lacking compared to that for everything from Bread to KC and the Sunshine Band.

On a similar note is the early 80s. A station not far from me once a month does that "all 80s weekends" thing. However RARE do they play anything before 1983. According to them they gave two reasons why that is. One is the same you gave about the late 70s being a bad time in history, not enough good memories ( example..unemployment in many places in 1981 and 1982 was well over 10% ) and also they told me to look at the charts of what was big then. Even airchecks of this very same station back then had them playing Rick James' Superfreak beside Paul Davis ( Cool Night ) and the Oak Ridge Boys and Alabama ( Love in the First Degree ). And they were top 40 back then !!!

In their mind if they played music from 1980, not only would they play John Lennon's Woman but also Kenny Roger's Lady as well.

 

[firepoint525]

Firepoint I'll give the reason in one word; disco. I think the 1975 limit is too severe; just stop at summer 1977 and right before "Saturday Night Fever". Face it; many of us don't have good memories of the late Seventies (Jimmy Carter, inflation, farm crisis, energy crunch). Disco also died a rapid death. Anything other than disco in that time period was rather slow and like cornbread gruel. Believe me; I was there. The demographic for disco is lacking compared to that for everything from Bread to KC and the Sunshine Band.

On a similar note is the early 80s. A station not far from me once a month does that "all 80s weekends" thing. However RARE do they play anything before 1983. According to them they gave two reasons why that is. One is the same you gave about the late 70s being a bad time in history, not enough good memories ( example..unemployment in many places in 1981 and 1982 was well over 10% ) and also they told me to look at the charts of what was big then. Even airchecks of this very same station back then had them playing Rick James' Superfreak beside Paul Davis ( Cool Night ) and the Oak Ridge Boys and Alabama ( Love in the First Degree ). And they were top 40 back then !!!

In their mind if they played music from 1980, not only would they play John Lennon's Woman but also Kenny Roger's Lady as well.

What you describe (format-wise) would indeed be a trainwreck, but I don't see that anyone is advocating that now. Furthermore, I should point out that country crossovers, most of which were despised even back then, have not aged well, and do not belong on a pop oldies station anyway. I could make the case that they didn't even belong on top 40 radio back then! I remember even back then, that everyone in my high school at the time hated "Elvira," yet top 40 radio played it religiously, and it went top 5 the summer between my junior and senior years! I know country crossovers don't really have a home anymore, and even some country fans hated them, but stations like WSM-AM here in Nashville still play those late '70s and early '80s "crossover" hits. The reason why most folks didn't like them is because they came off as "novelty" songs, and most of us here do not like "novelty" songs, nor do we remember them fondly. I say move those crossovers over to country radio, and let country fans deal with them. Those were their people crossing over, not ours!

There is plenty of new wave, punk, etc., from the early '80s to play without going cheesy and playing the crossovers. Even the AC stations that play '70s and '80s won't touch those country crossovers anymore.

 

[oldies76]

What about songs from 1980 & 1981 like:

Morning Train - Sheena Easton
Bette Davis Eyes - Kim Carnes
More Love - Kim Carnes
Magic - Olivia Newton John
Longer - Dan Fogelberg
Starting Over - John Lennon
Woman -John Lennon
Rapture - Blondie
Stars on 45 Medley - Stars on 45
Shaddap you Face - Joe Dolce (novelty)
Double Dutch Bus - Frankie Smith
Cars - Gary Numan
Queen of Hearts - Juice Newton
Angel of the Morning - Juice Newton

and the like..........

Big hits then for sure

 

[mleach]

What about songs from 1980 & 1981 like:

Morning Train - Sheena Easton
Bette Davis Eyes - Kim Carnes
More Love - Kim Carnes
Magic - Olivia Newton John
Longer - Dan Fogelberg
Starting Over - John Lennon
Woman -John Lennon
Rapture - Blondie
Stars on 45 Medley - Stars on 45
Shaddap you Face - Joe Dolce (novelty)
Double Dutch Bus - Frankie Smith
Cars - Gary Numan
Queen of Hearts - Juice Newton
Angel of the Morning - Juice Newton

and the like..........

Big hits then for sure

Actually all of the above except for Joe Dolce could work on stations that do the 80s. Dolce's song actually didn't get much airplay back then as I remember.

Now Stars on 45 this gets interesting. The people behind that hit had a version back in the 80s featuring ABBA as recall wasn't a hit when it came out. However IMO that version of Stars on 45 would work much better on radio today than the one that was a hit in the Spring of 81 featuring mainly tunes by the Beatles since ABBA is "in" now. Between the show Mama Mia, the film Muriels Wedding which is still popular and fondly remembered and that video of featuring the ABBA song mama Mia using scenes of the Faye Dunaway cult flick Mommie Dearest which is not only a HUGE hit on You Tube but many popular gay/lesbian/bear bars around the country as well as many straight bars are playing the hell out of that video as well. If a radio station doing the 80s was to play the ABBA Stars on 45 ...well chances are they WILL get listeners.

 

[firepoint525]

What about songs from 1980 & 1981 like:

Morning Train - Sheena Easton
Bette Davis Eyes - Kim Carnes
More Love - Kim Carnes
Magic - Olivia Newton John
Longer - Dan Fogelberg
Starting Over - John Lennon
Woman -John Lennon
Rapture - Blondie
Stars on 45 Medley - Stars on 45
Shaddap you Face - Joe Dolce (novelty)
Double Dutch Bus - Frankie Smith
Cars - Gary Numan
Queen of Hearts - Juice Newton
Angel of the Morning - Juice Newton

and the like..........

Big hits then for sure

Actually all of the above except for Joe Dolce could work on stations that do the 80s. Dolce's song actually didn't get much airplay back then as I remember.

Now Stars on 45 this gets interesting. The people behind that hit had a version back in the 80s featuring ABBA as recall wasn't a hit when it came out. However IMO that version of Stars on 45 would work much better on radio today than the one that was a hit in the Spring of 81 featuring mainly tunes by the Beatles since ABBA is "in" now. Between the show Mama Mia, the film Muriels Wedding which is still popular and fondly remembered and that video of featuring the ABBA song mama Mia using scenes of the Faye Dunaway cult flick Mommie Dearest which is not only a HUGE hit on You Tube but many popular gay/lesbian/bear bars around the country as well as many straight bars are playing the hell out of that video as well. If a radio station doing the 80s was to play the ABBA Stars on 45 ...well chances are they WILL get listeners.

I have that ABBA medley, as well as a CD of ABBA's greatest hits. Only problem is that both of them contain songs that were not American hits. I'm sure nearly every song on both were worldwide hits, but not American hits. Can you edit the medley to make it more appealing to American listeners' ears? ABBA certainly was not appreciated here in the states back in their heyday, but yet I don't hear the local AC stations rushing to play them! ??? Could it be that they are now more focused on '80s music than '70s music?

 

[MusicMaestro]

What about songs from 1980 & 1981 like:

Morning Train - Sheena Easton
Bette Davis Eyes - Kim Carnes
More Love - Kim Carnes
Magic - Olivia Newton John
Longer - Dan Fogelberg
Starting Over - John Lennon
Woman -John Lennon
Rapture - Blondie
Stars on 45 Medley - Stars on 45
Shaddap you Face - Joe Dolce (novelty)
Double Dutch Bus - Frankie Smith
Cars - Gary Numan
Queen of Hearts - Juice Newton
Angel of the Morning - Juice Newton

and the like..........

Big hits then for sure

while Dolce's hit didn't crack the top 40 nationally, it did make it to #1 here in Los Angeles! Good list, BTW! To get my take on the hits of the 80's, please visit www.themusicmaestro.proboards40.com! Love to see all of you there!

 

[oldies76]

MusicMaestro while Dolce's hit didn't crack the top 40 nationally, it did make it to #1 here in Los Angeles! Good list, BTW! To get my take on the hits of the 80's, please visit www.themusicmaestro.proboards40.com! Love to see all of you there!

On what station did "Shaddap You Face" hit #1 in L.A.? I remember hearing it on KRTH back in 1984 during the #1's Labor Day weekend. Could it have been #1 on KRTH? or were they using another station's music charts, like KHJ or KIIS, back in 1981.

Only hit #53 nationally.

I'll check out your 80's site.

 

[mleach]

about country crossover hits...Pretty much the only place those "crossover" hits are found today is on country radio. Even our local Light AC station won't play Kenny Rogers' Lady much less Coward of the County. Of course some country songs like "This Kiss" and "Man..I Feel like a woman", I have heard those pop up on some Light Rock and even a few HOT AC stations but then again those versions are different sounding than the same song that gets played on country stations.

Last night my wife and I talked about those crossover hits and how songs like "Elvira" and groups like Alabama found themselves getting played on top 40 stations in the late 70s-early 80s, often as much as they did on country stations.
I believe two factors stopped the practice. One was MTV of course. Even though MTV went on the air in 1981, it really wasnt until the summer/fall of 1982 when a lot of people started to notice them and the whole idea of music videos. Not only did that end those country crossovers but also examples of Barry Manilow, The Carpenters and even The Pointer Sisters having hits on top 40 radio. Barry Manilow for example in the Spring of 1982 had a remake of the Four Seasons song "Lets Hang on" that actually got quite a bit of airplay on such "big" Top 40 stations at the time like Washington DC's Q107 and Baltimore's B-104. A year later both Q107 and B-104 wouldn't be caught dead playing Manilow tune, much less Alabama.

Another reason I have heard why country crossovers "died" was due to the fact that many of those artists, well they hated doing them. While Dolly Parton could have cared less that 9-5 was getting played on many rock stations others didn't share her lack of concerns. Juice Newton, I remember watching an interview with her back then when she made a comment where she said she really didn't like her songs like "Loves Been A Little Bit Hard on Me" getting airplay on rock stations since she felt "safer" in country music.

Oh..Joe Dolce's Shaddap Your Face was a big hit on Buffalo's WKBW as well. Actually the only place I remember hearing that song back then was on KB.

 

[MusicMaestro]

MusicMaestro while Dolce's hit didn't crack the top 40 nationally, it did make it to #1 here in Los Angeles! Good list, BTW! To get my take on the hits of the 80's, please visit www.themusicmaestro.proboards40.com! Love to see all of you there!

On what station did "Shaddap You Face" hit #1 in L.A.? I remember hearing it on KRTH back in 1984 during the #1's Labor Day weekend. Could it have been #1 on KRTH? or were they using another station's music charts, like KHJ or KIIS, back in 1981.

Only hit #53 nationally.

I'll check out your 80's site.

KIQQ 100.3 FM. It might have been #1 on KHJ's also, i'm not sure.

 

[oldies76]

Music Maestro KIQQ 100.3 FM. It might have been #1 on KHJ's also, i'm not sure.

Would a list exist of all the songs that hit #1 in L.A., besides the KHJ charts (I am aware of those)...
Stations such as, KIQQ or others. It be interesting to compare. Looking for 1980-1985

 

[davideduardo]

Would a list exist of all the songs that hit #1 in L.A., besides the KHJ charts (I am aware of those)...
Stations such as, KIQQ or others. It be interesting to compare. Looking for 1980-1985

I continue to be amazed... or dismayed... that you really think that there is a high degree of reality with radio station charts. All they indicate is what the station wanted to play, not necessarily sales or any other indicator of popularity.

 

[firepoint525]

about country crossover hits...Pretty much the only place those "crossover" hits are found today is on country radio. Even our local Light AC station won't play Kenny Rogers' Lady much less Coward of the County. Of course some country songs like "This Kiss" and "Man..I Feel like a woman", I have heard those pop up on some Light Rock and even a few HOT AC stations but then again those versions are different sounding than the same song that gets played on country stations.

Last night my wife and I talked about those crossover hits and how songs like "Elvira" and groups like Alabama found themselves getting played on top 40 stations in the late 70s-early 80s, often as much as they did on country stations.
I believe two factors stopped the practice. One was MTV of course. Even though MTV went on the air in 1981, it really wasnt until the summer/fall of 1982 when a lot of people started to notice them and the whole idea of music videos. Not only did that end those country crossovers but also examples of Barry Manilow, The Carpenters and even The Pointer Sisters having hits on top 40 radio. Barry Manilow for example in the Spring of 1982 had a remake of the Four Seasons song "Lets Hang on" that actually got quite a bit of airplay on such "big" Top 40 stations at the time like Washington DC's Q107 and Baltimore's B-104. A year later both Q107 and B-104 wouldn't be caught dead playing Manilow tune, much less Alabama.

Another reason I have heard why country crossovers "died" was due to the fact that many of those artists, well they hated doing them. While Dolly Parton could have cared less that 9-5 was getting played on many rock stations others didn't share her lack of concerns. Juice Newton, I remember watching an interview with her back then when she made a comment where she said she really didn't like her songs like "Loves Been A Little Bit Hard on Me" getting airplay on rock stations since she felt "safer" in country music.

Oh..Joe Dolce's Shaddap Your Face was a big hit on Buffalo's WKBW as well. Actually the only place I remember hearing that song back then was on KB.

You're right that many current country tunes are written, recorded, mixed and remixed with crossover success in mind. One thing that I have noticed this time around is that it seems that more women are crossing over now, whereas back in the '70s and '80s it was mostly men. Of course, most of these songs are showing up on AC or "lite rock" radio, women-intensive formats.

Interesting theories about why crossovers died out in the early '80s. I both agree and disagree with what you have said here. I believe the rise of heavy metal in the early '80s helped crowd out country music from pop radio. It also crowded off soft-rockers like Air Supply, Captain & Tennille, etc. It may have spelled the end for the Carpenters, too, as you said, but I believe Karen Carpenter was probably already terminally ill by then, so it may not have mattered for them. Manilow actually started "rockin' out" (well, for him, anyway) about that time. Not only "Let's Hang On," which you mentioned, but also "Oh, Julie" and "Some Kind of Friend," the last of which may have cost him some fans! None of those were big hits for him. I don't think the Pointer Sisters were a good example, because they actually started having more and bigger hits about that time, well into the mid '80s. "I'm So Excited" was reissued, and went top 10 that second time out. And they shot videos for nearly all their '80s hits.

I believe you are right that many country performers thought that recording "crossover" tunes sacrificed their integrity with their true, core fans. But I think what killed it for me was when Kenny and Dolly recorded "Islands in the Stream." I hated that song! And yet it was #1 pop! (I don't know how it did on country.) It didn't even matter to me that it was written by the Bee Gees! (I think the Gibbs wrote everything on that particular album by Kenny Rogers.) I can't help but think that I wasn't the only one who felt that way! I really feel like a strong backlash against "Islands in the Stream" killed country crossovers for several years to come after that!

I heard a handful of country songs in the mid to late '80s that probably would have crossed over and become pop hits if they had been released earlier in the '80s. Eddie Rabbitt's cover of "The Wanderer" comes to mind as one example. Kenny and Dolly covered "Love is Strange" after it was re-popularized in Dirty Dancing, but despite the popularity of that movie, no pop radio ever played it.

 

[oldies76]

DavidEduardo I continue to be amazed... or dismayed... that you really think that there is a high degree of reality with radio station charts. All they indicate is what the station wanted to play, not necessarily sales or any other indicator of popularity.

Well, sure they relate to popularity....a song that hit #1 in L.A. may not have even made the Top 40 nationally, such as the case with the Joe Dolce song. It was a popular local hit, but somewhat unpopular across most of the nation (sales & airplay). #1 is a huge difference from #53.

Yes...on Top 40 stations, these charts were basically the playlist, and the most popular songs at the time, always scored high on a weekly basis, thus your weekly rankings.

By the way...you know WCBS does reference it's own radio charts for its Top 20 countdown show.

 

[davideduardo]

Well, sure they relate to popularity

Not necessarily. The chart positions, often based on a couple of (biased) store calls, had more to do with what the PD wanted to play than strict reality. I PDed a number of Top 40's with charts, and they were about half fact and half fiction. The stories of Drake powering a song just because he wanted to balance the playlist for overall texture are well known... we all did that sort of thing.

[/quote]Yes...on Top 40 stations, these charts were basically the playlist, and the most popular songs at the time, always scored high on a weekly basis, thus your weekly rankings.[/quote]

And the playlist was tailored by the PD to fit the sound of the station, with songs left off, songs increased in rotation, etc., and having nothing to do with sales, requsts, juke box play, etc.

 

[firepoint525]

DavidEduardo I continue to be amazed... or dismayed... that you really think that there is a high degree of reality with radio station charts. All they indicate is what the station wanted to play, not necessarily sales or any other indicator of popularity.

Well, sure they relate to popularity....a song that hit #1 in L.A. may not have even made the Top 40 nationally, such as the case with the Joe Dolce song. It was a popular local hit, but somewhat unpopular across most of the nation (sales & airplay). #1 is a huge difference from #53.

Yes...on Top 40 stations, these charts were basically the playlist, and the most popular songs at the time, always scored high on a weekly basis, thus your weekly rankings.

By the way...you know WCBS does reference it's own radio charts for its Top 20 countdown show.

The Joe Dolce song used to get airplay on some area stations around 5:00 every Friday afternoon as some sort of a weekend kickoff. I believe I have even seen it on a K-Tel type compilation album! So while it certainly wasn't a big hit, it at least charted nationally. But I seriously doubt that would qualify it for anything other than "specialty" airplay. I would consider it a novelty song.