Car recording demo of HD stations

[R.F. Burns]

I have to admit. It might be hard for a golden eared audiophile with a pair of Stax headphones to listen to an analog AM station airing Sean Hannity with IBOC turned on.

But how many golden eared audiophiles are listening to Sean Hannity?

I suspect most Hannity listening occurs in cars and in work environments.

Agreed. That is why I processed to the best effect with speakers.
As it is sharper, it could better be heard in the car or workplace, if so much processing weren't involved.
I just wanted to see what I could do with the audio.
It actually sounds better than a live AM tuner HD signal with the same processing.
It may have to do with the artificial highs derived from tape hiss.

Mr Burns, what type of tape, recorder, microphone, placement and volume level were used?
I'm not criticizing, just looking for more data.
And in playback, can you tell us if the auto level on the recorder gave you "full peaks" on tape levels?
It does sound like there was more headroom available on the tape, as most potables do not saturate tape unless you set levels manually.
The last clip in Polish seems to have the best overall balance and diction.
The Big Guns seem flat and have far less defined crispness.

For this test I used a Sony TCM5000 cassette machine and the mic was a Electrovoice RE 15. I didn't use any noise reduction in the transfer. As others have said, with road noise and the fact that no one turns the control all the way up. It's difficult to say what is IBOC noise and what is plain background noise one hears on every IBOC station. As to the suggestion that these stations weren't running IBOC when i made the recording, might I suggest a cal to each station is in order. Each has a full time engineering department and you can learn the truth. Of course WOR would run a promo for HD while their HD exciter was turned off. By the way, the WOR facility is brand new, having been on the air under 3 months, as I write this. WFAN & WCBS are co-located and each is a 50 KW 1A operation. WABC's transmitter site is located in Lodi NJ and is also a 50 KW 1A operation. I have no reason to creat false demos. If I was so concerned to do something like that don't you think I'd just drop the subject and post nothing? By the way, the speakers in my car are Infinity coaxials.

 

[R.F. Burns]

http://download.yousendit.com/F146126A576830C7

Ok, for the non and semi believers heres a recording I made this afternoon in my car. The tape was made on a cassette recorder using a microphone. I turned the treble control all the way up to maximize any interference. The car radio is in a 1995 Saturn. From 00 to 19 seconds is WCBS, from 19 to 30 seconds is WFAN, From 30 to 51 sevonds is WABC, and from 51 to 1:22 is WOR. All four stations were running IBOC generators at the time of the recording. The last recording whihch starts approx 1:22 in is a local station 3rd adjacent to a 50 KW HD station. Other than the fact that the station is 1 KW, in Polish which I don't understand, I would have no trouble listening to this station and I have no trouble with IBOC interference. So there you have it. All the claims of IBOC splash are nonsense unless you are using a defective radio. This is the third radio I've tested and IBOC causes no trouble with it either. C'mon get those demos out so we can all hear what your problems are. If you have problems contact the stations because I've demonstrated that a properly engineered station running IBOC causes NO problem with their analog transmission.

You claim you can diagnose that my radios are broken and conclusively prove that IBOC/HD Radio causes no problems, anywhere, by making a cassette recording with a microphone of selected stations recorded off of a car radio in New York?

This is complete nonsense, and has absolutely zero credibility.

Have you tried peddling your tapes to the Psychic Friends Network?

Why? What's up, you don't believe your ears or you mind is so made up that facts no longer matter? Either way you come across like a small time loser when you make such silly accusations.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

http://download.yousendit.com/F146126A576830C7

Ok, for the non and semi believers heres a recording I made this afternoon in my car. The tape was made on a cassette recorder using a microphone. I turned the treble control all the way up to maximize any interference. The car radio is in a 1995 Saturn. From 00 to 19 seconds is WCBS, from 19 to 30 seconds is WFAN, From 30 to 51 sevonds is WABC, and from 51 to 1:22 is WOR. All four stations were running IBOC generators at the time of the recording. The last recording whihch starts approx 1:22 in is a local station 3rd adjacent to a 50 KW HD station. Other than the fact that the station is 1 KW, in Polish which I don't understand, I would have no trouble listening to this station and I have no trouble with IBOC interference. So there you have it. All the claims of IBOC splash are nonsense unless you are using a defective radio. This is the third radio I've tested and IBOC causes no trouble with it either. C'mon get those demos out so we can all hear what your problems are. If you have problems contact the stations because I've demonstrated that a properly engineered station running IBOC causes NO problem with their analog transmission.

You claim you can diagnose that my radios are broken and conclusively prove that IBOC/HD Radio causes no problems, anywhere, by making a cassette recording with a microphone of selected stations recorded off of a car radio in New York?

This is complete nonsense, and has absolutely zero credibility.

Have you tried peddling your tapes to the Psychic Friends Network?

Why? What's up, you don't believe your ears or you mind is so made up that facts no longer matter? Either way you come across like a small time loser when you make such silly accusations.

So you made some cassette tapes of selected radio stations at your location from your car radio.

That is supposed to prove something?

The only thing what you have said might prove is that you have access to a car radio, microphone and cassette recorder. Everything else you said is pure, unsupported speculation.

 

[R.F. Burns]

http://download.yousendit.com/F146126A576830C7

Ok, for the non and semi believers heres a recording I made this afternoon in my car. The tape was made on a cassette recorder using a microphone. I turned the treble control all the way up to maximize any interference. The car radio is in a 1995 Saturn. From 00 to 19 seconds is WCBS, from 19 to 30 seconds is WFAN, From 30 to 51 sevonds is WABC, and from 51 to 1:22 is WOR. All four stations were running IBOC generators at the time of the recording. The last recording whihch starts approx 1:22 in is a local station 3rd adjacent to a 50 KW HD station. Other than the fact that the station is 1 KW, in Polish which I don't understand, I would have no trouble listening to this station and I have no trouble with IBOC interference. So there you have it. All the claims of IBOC splash are nonsense unless you are using a defective radio. This is the third radio I've tested and IBOC causes no trouble with it either. C'mon get those demos out so we can all hear what your problems are. If you have problems contact the stations because I've demonstrated that a properly engineered station running IBOC causes NO problem with their analog transmission.

You claim you can diagnose that my radios are broken and conclusively prove that IBOC/HD Radio causes no problems, anywhere, by making a cassette recording with a microphone of selected stations recorded off of a car radio in New York?

This is complete nonsense, and has absolutely zero credibility.

Have you tried peddling your tapes to the Psychic Friends Network?

Why? What's up, you don't believe your ears or you mind is so made up that facts no longer matter? Either way you come across like a small time loser when you make such silly accusations.

So you made some cassette tapes of selected radio stations at your location from your car radio.

That is supposed to prove something?

The only thing what you have said might prove is that you have access to a car radio, microphone and cassette recorder. Everything else you said is pure, unsupported speculation.

Oh, why do I bother giving you legitimacy by responding to your nonesense? I proved that, on my analog car radio you can not hear the IBOC exciter running. AM sounds just like it has for the past decade or so. All sorts of baseless accusations have been made and no proof has been supplied. Only links to other personal opinion pieces. I provided proof, twice. Some were convinced, others will never have their opinions changed and still others change their screen names and continue to spew their garbage in an attempt to have a thread which clearly proves their accusations wrong, deleted. The only speculation being voiced here is coming from the few ignorant people who, during the time that their keepers allow them near a computer, continue to post the same nonsense, over and over again. Face it pal, you have lost this argument. Hopefully tomorrow the commission will put an end to the speculation and declare IBOC the defacto winner in the battle of words.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

What's up, you don't believe your ears or you mind is so made up that facts no longer matter? Either way you come across like a small time loser when you make such silly accusations.

Try, just for once, answering his accusations without the name-calling. They're not silly by any stretch of the imagination.

You concluded from your so-called test that there are NO problems with this tech. He called you out, so your response is to call him a "loser" and his accusations "silly." That's not an answer. Name-calling is for children. We are, presumably, adults here. Try acting like one and answer what he wrote.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

What RF did was take the claims of interference FOR A TEST DRIVE in the real world.

The real world? GMAB. He tested it in HIS world, and then made a blanket statement that since HE experienced no problems, there are NONE. Go back and read it again. NONE. That's what he posted...a statement unsupported by any evidence whatsoever. Further, he responds to criticism of his results by name-calling and innuendo, which says a whole lot more about him than it does about his critics.

 

[Mike Walker]

His world is a part of the real world, isn't it? If I have an experience, is it any less "real world experience" because you didn't share it? As I pointed out, this test needs to be repeated by SOMEONE 50 to 75 miles out, where the AGC in the radio won't be "clamped down" by strong local signals...where instead it will be at, or near maximum gain...which will bring out any noise which may be present. IMHO this would be a more valuable test (one which I would gladly perform, if there were any HD AM stations in my part of NC. The nearest seems to be on the coast (Wilmington), hundreds of miles from me (I'm on the opposite end of a state that's much "wider" than it is "tall".) It would mean an expensive overnight trip in a city I don't particularly wish to visit (I like Wilmington, but prefer the mountains to the coast...NC's mountains are gorgeous!) Besides I don't drive, my vision's too poor.

But I suspect there are others here for whom it would be much less of an inconvenience. Perhaps you live 50-75 miles from one or more HD AM stations, and can conduct (and record) such a test. It too would be just the experience of one person, in one location...but cumulatively these tests could give us a broader idea of the audible impact of HD in "the real world". Imagine I had a big, gaping scar on the left side of my face. If you viewed me from the right side, and took a snapshot from that angle, I might look just fine. This IS "real world experience", but sure doesn't tell the whole story. If, however, you moved around me (while I remained motionless), and got further impressions of my appearance, taking other snapshots from various angles, a much more complete "picture" would emerge. Eventually the truth would be evident...I had, and was attempting to conceal, a big ugly scar. Only by taking repeated "snapshots" from "different angles" can we determine if AM HD has a "big ugly scar", and if it does, reveal it for everyone to see (hear).

I said that RF's recording gave me hope that AM HD may actually be acceptable. It didn't PROVE it to me (yet), but it gave me hope. It DOES show that in his environment (the most RF rich in the country), it seems to do no (or at least very little) harm. In a more rural, or suburban setting, distant from the towers, I suspect the experience could be different. I'd love to know for sure.

 

[calstymes]

R.F. Burns declared:

Hopefully tomorrow the commission will put an end to the speculation and declare IBOC the defacto winner in the battle of words.

Oh please, please NO! At least not in the AM broadcast band. There is just too much interference from this stuff! If you haven't yet done so, write a letter to the FCC now before it is too late and we are stuck with awful and horrible sounding technology.

 

[Mike Walker]

Take it from someone who grew up in small market radio...it's quite possible to be air talent, program director, chief engineer, general manager, news director, sports play by play guy, traffic director, and cleaning crew ALL AT THE SAME TIME!

 

[moderator7]

Some posts in this topic have been moved to Take It Outside.

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=66595.0

 

[tomservo]

Hey Mike - I'm 80 miles from a 50kW station in Memphis doing IBOC but I can't get a good recording of it... All I have to record with is a minidisc unit or a VCR and both, when active, contribute waaay to much noise on the radio to be useful. I'm still working on a solution. At this distance, the HD sidebands on AM aren't even noticeable, in my experience.

I'm surprised at how good RF's audio sounded but I could still hear IBOC hash -- or at least that's what it sounded like. It was like an 8-bit digital recording. That "rough" sandy high end sound is present in the recording. This isn't on headphones, just a decent pair of computer speakers.

I know that my VW's stock radio, while not the best AM radio in the world, is pretty decent. And the spashover into the analog audio is noticeable, especially in low-noise situations.