Carmakers Against HD-Satellite Radio Combo

[Carmine5]

HD Radio wants a mandate. The question is what are they willing to do in order to get it.

They willl NOT get the mandate they're after, which is to have the FCC do their dirty work for them. Any other "deal" they make is beside the point, because it must necessarily involve a very simple concept: Does it sell or not? So far, "not" is the correct answer...and nothing anyone can do by legal fiat is going to change that. There is NO interest in this product.

If iBiquity is really interested in getting the product out there, as distasteful as this sounds, they're going to have to do what SiriusXM does and pay for dashboard space. No way around it. The auto makers, particularly the Big Two (GM and Toyota) have effectively said it.

You mean actually spend some hard cash? Not the surplus-of-unsold-inventory "cash" that participating stations were giving away to the Alliance to promote HD Radio?

I don't know what the HD Alliance's balance sheet looks like but we know that iBiquity has been borrowing heavily of late. I don't think they have the money to pay automakers.

But as DE indicates, they do have intellectual property and if iBiquity is really serious about expanding HD Radio's reach then they should be cutting some very sweet, liberal, slice-to-the-bone deals with their license fees, particularly with CE manufacturers. Making similar deals with all broadcasters, large and small, wouldn't hurt either.

I have no doubt that when iBiquity unleashed HD Radio on the industry they felt sure the "Field of Dreams" philosophy was with them. What a shock it must have been when so few actually came. Not even the FCC's papal blessing has helped much.

But while I can heap scorn on HD Radio, it should be noted that a mandate for HD Radio in the car is a mandate for terrestrial radio itself.

I mean, isn't it better to have terrestrial radio along with satellite radio, even if it's HD, then without it?

C5

 

[Savage]

The problem is, the only HD "mandate" that's still alive - and that's a tenative "life" - is for a digital-only version of HD in satrad. Digital-only HD has about as much viability as a new Presidential candidacy for Rudy Giuliani.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

All indications from the Spring books out so far is that at work is growing, while in-car is decreasing. This may have multiple causes, but the in car part may be related to less congested highways, greater use of public transport, 4-day workweeks, etc.

At work is probably streaming. A few folks in this building have radios, but the steel construction of the building precludes either AM or FM reception. It is like a Faraday cage in here more than 30 feet away from a window. So why do people have a radios? Mostly for the CD player built in. Or they had them before their office moved and now never use them. And that 10dB power increase for HD? What a joke. It might give a digital signal 5 more feet into this building. Most people here are more than 30 feet from a window. I personally am close to 100 feet from the nearest window. This is pretty typical construction.

A lot of listening is happening, but it is streaming audio - much to the distress of the IT department.

One thing is for certain - nobody can listen to their radio through speakers, because it would disturb everybody in cubicles around them.

You CAN'T be living in any major metro area - because traffic is not less congested! Public transport starts in a slum and ends in a ghetto around here, it is closer for me to drive to work than to the train station, and last time I used the train, I was stalked by gang members bent on robbing me. Until they solve THAT problem - I'm not going to use it again. Neither will anybody else I know. 4-day work week? I WISH! Any chance of that happening was quashed in the 70's with the last recession. The only hope we got of some relief is telecommuting, but old time managers who have yet to get their style out of the 1960's will never allow it.

Why is in-car radio listening down? Satellite and iPod. People listen more than ever in the cars - just not to radio.

 

[Carmine5]

The problem is, the only HD "mandate" that's still alive - and that's a tenative "life" - is for a digital-only version of HD in satrad. Digital-only HD has about as much viability as a new Presidential candidacy for Rudy Giuliani.

Ah, I thought we were talking HD, as in hybrid digital, here. Digital only? Fugedaboutit!

C5

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

it's cheaper to take the royalty off the front end, and give it a few years to catch on.

Succinctly put: This will NOT happen. Since iBiquity manufactures nothing, those royalties are their sole source of income. They will not make any move that decreases their profits.

(Waiting for them to prove me wrong, but I won't wait forever...)

 

[TheBigA]

it's cheaper to take the royalty off the front end, and give it a few years to catch on.

Succinctly put: This will NOT happen. Since iBiquity manufactures nothing, those royalties are their sole source of income. They will not make any move that decreases their profits.

(Waiting for them to prove me wrong, but I won't wait forever...)

I bet there are a few folks in top positions in radio right now who feel if iBiquity can't turn this into something soon, they may be ready to try something else. The radio companies haven't sunk a whole lot of money into this, and it won't cost them a lot to walk away. I think the Alliance signed a 1-year extension in January.

 

[Savage]

That's what -10db on HD-FM is all about. It's the system's hail-mary pass. HD-AM is so bad it's not even worth serious consideration any more, and the coverage problems are the number-one (of several) serious flaws plaguing HD-FM.

The droll irony of this is that the digital power increase will mostly serve to elevate HD-FM's unacceptable adjacent-channel interference problems to the level of AM's while providing only a minimal improvement in reliable digital reception. But the HD Dilberts have at this point reached for all their lore. This is all they have left. So they're going to try to ignore the same technical impossibilities which doomed HD-AM "and just hope it works out okay."

The oft-repeated definition of "insanity": Doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different outcome.

 

[KB1OKL]

That's what -10db on HD-FM is all about. It's the system's hail-mary pass. HD-AM is so bad it's not even worth serious consideration any more, and the coverage problems are the number-one (of several) serious flaws plaguing HD-FM.

The droll irony of this is that the digital power increase will mostly serve to elevate HD-FM's unacceptable adjacent-channel interference problems to the level of AM's while providing only a minimal improvement in reliable digital reception. But the HD Dilberts have at this point reached for all their lore. This is all they have left. So they're going to try to ignore the same technical impossibilities which doomed HD-AM "and just hope it works out okay."

The oft-repeated definition of "insanity": Doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different outcome.

Let's all have a moment of silence for HD's demise.

 

[Chuck]

That's what -10db on HD-FM is all about. It's the system's hail-mary pass. HD-AM is so bad it's not even worth serious consideration any more, and the coverage problems are the number-one (of several) serious flaws plaguing HD-FM.

The droll irony of this is that the digital power increase will mostly serve to elevate HD-FM's unacceptable adjacent-channel interference problems to the level of AM's while providing only a minimal improvement in reliable digital reception. But the HD Dilberts have at this point reached for all their lore. This is all they have left. So they're going to try to ignore the same technical impossibilities which doomed HD-AM "and just hope it works out okay."

The oft-repeated definition of "insanity": Doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different outcome.

Let's all have a moment of silence for HD's demise.

I'm attending the Texas Association of Broadcasters Convention as I write this. In one seminar, a major manufacturer of HD transmitters admitted that current HD transmitter sale are "slow." Later, the same person, when asked if there would be increased interference issues posed by a 10dB power increase, said, "How could it not."

Even Ibiquity's presentation was fairly down beat, and out of date. According to them, there are still lots of Accurians and BA Recoptors on the shelves at every Radio Shack and they are selling like hot cakes. Go look for yourself.....

 

[TheBigA]

According to them, there are still lots of Accurians and BA Recoptors on the shelves at every Radio Shack and they are selling like hot cakes. Go look for yourself.....

Honestly, what do you EXPECT them to say?

 

[Play Freebird]

Even Ibiquity's presentation was fairly down beat, and out of date.

I guess there's not much good news to report ("good" from iBiquity's perspective), so they're simply repeating what we heard last year and the year before that. (If they're lucky, they'll forget to mention that deal the Alliance made with Sharper Image.)

This is also clear if you read Bob Struble's recent column. As proof that everything is just "fantastic", he mentions HD Radio is standard in some BMWs and Minis, optional in Fords, and there have been "announcements" from some other car companies. Therefore, little has changed from 2007.

 

[TheBigA]

Except that no one's buying cars any more, and the auto business is heading in the same direction as the radio business.

 

[Carmine5]

Except that no one's buying cars any more, and the auto business is heading in the same direction as the radio business.

Except when thinking small. Small market radio is doing well and, apparently, dealers are selling all they can get of the Smart Car, Prius and Honda Fit.

Bloat, be it SUVs or media conglomerates, is a thing of the past.

C5

 

[TheBigA]

Bloat, be it SUVs or media conglomerates, is a thing of the past.

I wouldn't be so sure. These things tend to swing like a pendulum.

The point though for HD radio, as with satellite, if they're counting on new car sales to broaden their platform, it probably won't happen this year.

 

[Carmine5]

Bloat, be it SUVs or media conglomerates, is a thing of the past.

I wouldn't be so sure. These things tend to swing like a pendulum.

The point though for HD radio, as with satellite, if they're counting on new car sales to broaden their platform, it probably won't happen this year.

Unless gasoline (and diesel also) magically comes down to 3.00 or less per gallon then, yes, I can be sure.

Even the NY Times last week predicted that small cars was Ford's future.

Once automakers, especially the big three, tool up and produce smaller, fuel efficient cars and trucks, the vehicles people want, sales will pick up dramatically. And, of course, radio will be coming along for the ride, both in these new cars and in spot sales.

C5

 

[TheBigA]

Fuel efficient cars and trucks are available, and they're not selling either. I think the issue isn't the car, but having a job that will permit you to pay for it. The unemployment fear is stronger than the gas price fear.

 

[KB1OKL]

According to them, there are still lots of Accurians and BA Recoptors on the shelves at every Radio Shack and they are selling like hot cakes. Go look for yourself.....

Honestly, what do you EXPECT them to say?

Certainly not the truth: HD is deader than a door nail.

 

[TheBigA]

According to them, there are still lots of Accurians and BA Recoptors on the shelves at every Radio Shack and they are selling like hot cakes. Go look for yourself.....

Honestly, what do you EXPECT them to say?

Certainly not the truth: HD is deader than a door nail.

Which, by the way, is exactly what we'd expect YOU to say.

So you say your thing, they say their thing. Ain't 'Merica grand?

 

[Savage]

Except for a critical difference. KB1OKL isn't trying to stick a pistol in any unwilling broadcaster's ear, demanding that he give up reliable reception of his built-from-scratch facility, so iBiquity can reap confiscatory revenue. And KB1OKL didn't cynically and knowingly force a defective hybrid digital system through an inept regulatory agency, stacking the deck by making sure said agency (a) was directed by lobbyists to ignore any negative or unfavorable data, then (b) conspired with a self-interested radio industry group to stack the deck of technical standards to disfavor any station suffering interference.

In other words: KB1OKL is actually interested in preserving quality reception of radio in modes perfectly acceptable to the public, and protecting the interests of all broadcasters, not just a self-anointed elite. So please spare us the "moral equivalency" crap.

Apparently you prefer to take shots at him and side with...well, nodding to your endless protestations that "you're not pro-HD," let's just put you in the "somewhere else" column. Yep, you're right. That's America.

During World War 2, there were reports of thousands of Belgians, Danes, Dutch and French who joined up with the Waffen SS while their countrymen were being brutalized by occupying Germans. They watched their neighbors - in some cases, their relatives - be carted off to forced labor or even death camps. All the time they howled that they were the "true patriots." In some cases, they were still denying four years later after Allied victory, as they stood in front of hometown firing squads.

I guess we all pick sides based upon our moral makeup. Don't we?

 

[TheBigA]

Except for a critical difference. KB1OKL isn't trying to stick a pistol in any unwilling broadcaster's ear

So you're saying broadcasters are being FORCED to buy this system, and are being THREATENED? There are laws that deal with those forms of business tactics, you know. I don't know of anyone who's been FORCED. In fact, you know of some Alliance members who have decided to turn off their IBOC at night. Have they been threatened by anyone? Please tell us. We'd like to know.

And KB1OKL didn't cynically and knowingly force a defective hybrid digital system through an inept regulatory agency,

An attorney would say you're leading the wittness and being judgemental.

stacking the deck by making sure said agency (a) was directed by lobbyists to ignore any negative or unfavorable data, then (b) conspired with a self-interested radio industry group to stack the deck of technical standards to disfavor any station suffering interference.

Whenever something happens people don't like, they blame the lobbyists. I know a lot of lobbyists, and they're not bad people, even though I disagree with a lot of them. The truth is that the regulators and legislators aren't being forced to listen to them of follow what they say. These paid representatives of the people could easily do the brave thing and simply say no. THEY are the ones to blame. The lobbyists are just doing their jobs.

Regarding your conspiracy theory, when Alliance members experience interference among themselves, then what happens? So it's not really a conspiracy, is it?

Apparently you prefer to take shots at him and side with...well, nodding to your endless protestations that "you're not pro-HD," let's just put you in the "somewhere else" column.

I take shots at him because in his zeal to counter the untruths made by one group, he makes untruths of his own. He feels qualified to call them out on their untruths, I'd like to keep him honest in his. You called me on one of mine, and I admitted it. That's what gentlemen do.

I guess we all pick sides based upon our moral makeup. Don't we?

So because we don't agree, I'm a Nazi sympathizer? That's a bit strong, don't you think?