• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

CBC analog transmitters

M

mjlarochelle

CBC/Radio-Canada recently made its official application to the CRTC to eliminate every single one of its analog rebroadcast transmitters, English or French, regardless of the community size. In the application, CBC officials once again made the false claim about how few Canadians use OTA.

The CBC's application to the CRTC includes the number of people served by each transmitter, broken down by knowledge of the two official languages. I have compiled a list of all the transmitters that serve populations of 50,000 viewers or more, in the language of the transmitting station.

English Network

Newfoundland and Labrador
Grand Falls CBNAT

Nova Scotia
Middleton CBHT-6
Mulgrave CBHT-11
Sydney CBIT

New Brunswick
Bon Accord CBAT-TV-1
Campbellton CBAT-TV-4
Moncton CBAT-TV-2
Saint John CBAT-TV

Quebec
Quebec CBVE-TV
Sherbrooke CBMT-3
Trois-Rivieres CBMT-1

Ontario
Huntsville CBLT-TV-2
Kitchener CBLN-TV-1
London CBLN-TV
North Bay CBLT-4
Pembroke CBOT-6
Sarnia CBLN-TV-2
Sault Ste. Marie CBLT-5
Sudbury CBLT-6
Timmins CBLT-7
Wingham CBLN-TV-4

Saskatchewan
Moose Jaw CBKT-1
Prince Albert CBKST-9
Saskatoon CBKST
Warmley CBKT-7
Yorkton CBKT-6

Alberta
Grande Prairie CBXAT
Lethbridge CBRT-6
Red Deer CBXT-13

British Columbia
Braeloch CBUT-39
Chilliwack CBUT-2
Kelowna CBUT-38
Nelson CBUCT
Penticton CBUT-40
Salmon Arm CBUT-43
Vernon CBUT-41

French Network

New Brunswick
Allardville CBAFT-3
Campbellton CBAFT-7
Edmundston CBAFT-2

Quebec
Beauceville CBVT-6
Carleton CBGAT-14
Mont-Laurier CBFT-2
Mont-Tremblant CBFT-1
Stoneham CBVT-8

Ontario
Sudbury CBLFT-2

Alberta
Calgary CBRFT

I think that CBC has severely underestimated how many viewers will be affected by this. I know myself that if I was an advertiser, I'd be demanding discounts on my national advertising, or finding better places to advertise.
 
I can't believe London is actually going to lose CBC English service, just because it doesn't have a studio and repeats CBLT.

Yes, I know you can use cable/satellite. I'm curious if anyone has done an OTA percentage study in London...I'm guessing it'd be higher than, say, Toronto.
 
OhioMediaWatch said:
I can't believe London is actually going to lose CBC English service, just because it doesn't have a studio and repeats CBLT.

Yes, I know you can use cable/satellite. I'm curious if anyone has done an OTA percentage study in London...I'm guessing it'd be higher than, say, Toronto.
Click to expand...

Even though I lived in London for many years, I have very little knowledge of actual OTA usage in the city. Most people I know there are cable users.

What I do know is that OTA usage in some of the smaller communities near London is higher than the broadcasters would have us believe. When I worked for one of the cable companies during part of last year, I talked to a sizable number of people who were either relying solely on OTA, or had OTA on one or more TV sets. I made a point of asking these people what channels they were getting. In Forest, Ontario, in particular I'd say between 10 and 20% of viewers there use OTA exclusively; cable is not available in the whole area, and not everyone wants to pay for satellite. I specifically asked these people which channel(s) they got CBC on, and most got it on Channel 34 (Sarnia) - now one of the transmitters slated for shutdown. One man I spoke with said he gets 50 channels (including subchannels), including everything from Detroit. He said he bought a digital box when the U.S. transition was happening, and was very happy with what he was now getting.

In other communities, the numbers weren't as high as Forest, but I'd say they were between 5 and 10%. I found that OTA usage picked up as one got closer to Toronto; in Arthur for instance, I'd say it was around 10%, with most viewers reporting receiving CKVR Barrie, CKCO Kitchener, Global Paris, and sometimes the Toronto stations.

I reported some of my anecdotal findings to some of the other marketing people, and they were very surprised at how many people were actually using OTA. They had assumed that nobody used OTA anymore.

I was still working for this company at the time of the DTV transition, and not one of the people who reported using OTA exclusively ended up signing up for cable - this was something I made a point of tracking. The people I was signing up for cable were mostly people who were fed up with Bell, with a minority being people who had recently moved into their dwelling and had planned to get cable anyways. What I don't know is whether these people signed up for satellite, or bought a digital box; I would lean towards the latter, because the OTA users often told me that they didn't watch enough TV to warrant paying for it, and they were happy with only a few channels.
 
azumanga said:
In Windsor, the local MPs and the City Council has urged the CBC to keep the local Radio-Canada repeater, CBEFT, going, either as it is, or as a subchannel of CBET:

http://www.windsorstar.com/life/French/6749217/story.html
https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/ListeInterventionList/Documents.aspx?ID=168888&Lang=e
Click to expand...

The Windsor Star article has one major error:

CBC and Radio-Canada are eliminating 600 analogue transmitters across the country in compliance with a 2010 CRTC decision to phase out analogue in favour of digital transmitters.

The CRTC is not forcing the CBC to shut down analog transmitters in most of the country, although analog is supposed to be eliminated from Windsor.
 
I just can't get over the fact that Canada's public broadcaster is giving up over-air service to a community the size of London.

A commercial network? Sure.

I wonder if there'd be a chance for digital conversion in London if the budget was not in such bad shape.
 
OhioMediaWatch said:
I just can't get over the fact that Canada's public broadcaster is giving up over-air service to a community the size of London.

A commercial network? Sure.

I wonder if there'd be a chance for digital conversion in London if the budget was not in such bad shape.
Click to expand...

Probably.

I wonder whether any commercial stations would consider re-affiliating with CBC -- and whether the CBC would be receptive to such moves.

Indeed, going a bit outside the box, I wonder whether some commercial stations might consider carrying the CBC on a .2 subchannel in return for a cut of the advertising revenue? You could probably do that at nearly zero expense to the CBC, some enhancement to revenue (even though they claim the OTA shutdown will have no effect on that), the cost to the commercial station would be an IRD (~$2k) and an MPEG encoder. (about the same) I'd be very surprised if the CRTC would object.

But as long as CBC also doesn't seem receptive to carrying the minority-language service on a .2 of the digital transmitters they do have, I guess they really would just as soon be rid of OTA altogether.
 
w9wi said:
But as long as CBC also doesn't seem receptive to carrying the minority-language service on a .2 of the digital transmitters they do have, I guess they really would just as soon be rid of OTA altogether.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess we're still thinking like Americans. There appears to be very little interest in OTA in Canada.

But I can understand the OTA service going away as a decision by commercial broadcasters. Isn't there some sort of public service mandate for the CBC?

As it turns out, the reality is the opposite...London's commercial broadcasters have all converted to digital, and CBLN/40 is going dark in any form. Maybe they think CBC Radio One (93.5) can fill some of the public service gap.
 
I think for CBC it is more of a strategic decision than a financial decision. I can almost guarantee that they were looking for the first positive PR opportunity to make this move, and a large budget cut from the federal government is the perfect opportunity. Never mind that their management is top-heavy and there are much more beneficial things CBC could be doing to save money. Cutting off a whole group of viewers completely from the service is not going to help CBC.

Could CBC save money by shutting down analog transmitters? Absolutely. However, I fail to see the benefit to them by cutting off up to 10% of their viewership in cities like London.
 
M.J. said:
Could CBC save money by shutting down analog transmitters? Absolutely. However, I fail to see the benefit to them by cutting off up to 10% of their viewership in cities like London.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, it would be prudent if the CBC closes down transmitters in rural areas where everyone is getting television on cable and satellite, and hardly anyone (if at all) watches it over the air, or in areas where there is virtually no audience for it (such as Radio-Canada's translators in the BC Interior, for example). But in major areas where there's a sizable amount of viewers still watching over-the-air (such as Windsor, London and Saskatoon), such a tactic would not work in CBC's favor.
 
You'd think they would at least try to get the CRTC to allow them to use subchannels so they can carry both French and English services from one digital transmitter in markets where CBC already has an existing DTV transmitter going. Of course many of these transmitter sites are from areas that were exempt in 2011 so there may be no digital services at all. Maybe they could lease a subchannel from existing DTV services owned by somebody else even if it only means a SD picture, its better than nothing. I know the CRTCs policy but I see all these single channel DTV services in Canada as unused potential for more content.
 
spunker88 said:
You'd think they would at least try to get the CRTC to allow them to use subchannels so they can carry both French and English services from one digital transmitter in markets where CBC already has an existing DTV transmitter going. Of course many of these transmitter sites are from areas that were exempt in 2011 so there may be no digital services at all. Maybe they could lease a subchannel from existing DTV services owned by somebody else even if it only means a SD picture, its better than nothing. I know the CRTCs policy but I see all these single channel DTV services in Canada as unused potential for more content.
Click to expand...

In this instance subchannels are useful but not used. Meanwhile behind the cornbread curtain, subchannels are used for really trivial services outside of retro channels MeTV/Antenna TV/THIS/RTV and the PBS subchannels. The CRTC needs to smell the coffee and allow Radio-Canada to rebroadcast CBC (English) on subchannels in QC.
 
rgseark2009 said:
In this instance subchannels are useful but not used. Meanwhile behind the cornbread curtain, subchannels are used for really trivial services outside of retro channels MeTV/Antenna TV/THIS/RTV and the PBS subchannels. The CRTC needs to smell the coffee and allow Radio-Canada to rebroadcast CBC (English) on subchannels in QC.
Click to expand...

I doubt the CRTC would stop CBC/Radio-Canada from doing that if they applied. CBC/Radio-Canada would rather just pretend that "nobody uses OTA", which is what they've probably been told by some junior consultants who have no idea what they're talking about.
 
Hmm.

TVO converted to digital in London, right?

Could the CBC cut some sort of a deal to piggyback CBLN/CBLT's programming on a subchannel of the TVO London transmitter?

(I don't know the relationship between CBC and TVO, or if this wouid even be possible. From the outside, TVO would seem to be the most compatible location...I don't see CTV Two, Citytv or Omni going for it.)
 
I agree with M.J.: I think if the CBC would ask to share a transmitter between their English and French services, the Commission would happily approve it.

(I wouldn't be completely astonished if they *ordered* the CBC to transmitter-share in markets where one of the two official languages would otherwise be lost)

Indeed, I suspect they'd authorize *any* requested transmitter-sharing arrangement that involved stations that are already licenced.
 
What about those people in Northwest Territories and Nunavut who, in some cases, only get CBC for local TV up there, on a VF____ xmitter? How is it going to affect them?

-crainbebo
 
crainbebo said:
What about those people in Northwest Territories and Nunavut who, in some cases, only get CBC for local TV up there, on a VF____ xmitter? How is it going to affect them?
Click to expand...

I imagine that if the VF transmitter is owned by a local group and not the CBC, it'll be the option of that group to decide whether or not to close it down. Many low-powered repeaters in rural parts of Canada, both carrying the CBC and other networks, are owned by local third parties and not the networks or the stations, just like how it is in rural parts of the US.
 
azumanga said:
crainbebo said:
What about those people in Northwest Territories and Nunavut who, in some cases, only get CBC for local TV up there, on a VF____ xmitter? How is it going to affect them?
Click to expand...

I imagine that if the VF transmitter is owned by a local group and not the CBC, it'll be the option of that group to decide whether or not to close it down. Many low-powered repeaters in rural parts of Canada, both carrying the CBC and other networks, are owned by local third parties and not the networks or the stations, just like how it is in rural parts of the US.
Click to expand...

Very true.

Although.. the CBC has indicated they're shutting down their existing SD satellite uplinks, so if these VF- stations are to continue they'll have to raise $2000 or so for a new satellite receiver.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom