cbs flip of

[davideduardo]

You bring up a valid point. There isn't an overall "Puerto Rican" format just like there isn't a "White" format. Still, comparing how many hispanic targeted formats there are in Latin countries is sort of irrelevant when comparing an area of a hispanic majority versus a hispanic minority. If a station can get more listeners by targeting a majority segment then that's what they are going to do.

There realy are no "majority" formats in any Latin Ameircan naiton, any moreso than there are such in US markets. Probably the most universal format, AC and its hybrid Hot AC, are capable of 10 to 15 shares in any market in Latin Americo. And the music is much more similar nation to nation than any other format. But there are big formats like AC and oldies missing in Orlando, as well as a good WKAQ or WUNO-like talker.

You can wax all day about how you feel the Census isn't capturing the true population, but advertisers and stakesholders aren't going to buy into that. They are going to pay attention to their tax-supported Census printout.

Advertisers, ad agencies and Arbitron istself use Claritas data or that provided by several other demographic data providers that use the Census as only one component of populaton data. Arbitron, as mentioned, does not get their data from the Census and the marketing departments at companies from P&G to Coke don't use Census data directly. It is way to inaccurate, particularly in ethnic populations and even more so following a few years after the decenial census is taken. Unfortunately, the Constitutuion mandates a census, and statistics derived from polling can not be used, despite proof that today they would be far more accurate.

I don't imagine walking into a conference room blurting out that the "Census is wrong" is going to garner much support for a proposed Spanish format either.

Since Arbitron does not use Census data, and the Claritas data supports the need for another station, nobody is going to object to observing that the Arbitron population data shows much opportunity than most any other format... because there is a huge group of listeners not served by the two current tropical based stations.

By the time there is solid proof of ratings, speculation is irrelevant, and advertisers aren't going to bite unless they see the beef. That's what happenned in Philadelphia.

I presume you are referring to the Clear Channel abortion of putting an FM against the Hispanic market where that market is 4.8% of the population and nearly 70% assimilated Puerto Ricans? There has been nearly no migration from PR to the NE since the late 60's, and the Boricuas there are second and third generation when we talk 25-54 sales demos. The Spanish spakers are over 55, and not a good sales target. Clear must have been using Census numbers, not Arbitron's langauge preference reports to make the decision. There was no way such a staiton could get more htan about a share and a half, if lucky.

Plus, if a hispanic citizen wants so badly to integrate into American culture that they won't even admit their true heritage on a piece of paper, what is the probability that they are going to record in an Arbitron diary that they were listening to Hispanic radio stations? Surely you see a parallel.

That is not the issue. Most Puerto Ricans (based on a survey in NY and Miami) do not like the term "Hispanic" or "Latino." I asked, separately, each of my daughters if they considered themselves Hispanic or Latinas, and each said, "No way. I'm Puerto Rican." This is why the Census shows so many "other Hispanics" and also why the Puerto Ricans are undercounted. There is pride in the heritage and culture, but not acceptance of the names the government applies... questionnaire bias can change the results of a census or survey radically... and that is what we have here.

 

[davideduardo]

First of David, once again 105.9 is not going Spanish,

That may be entirely true, but if it is, it is NOT for the reasons you stated.

second SBS is not going to offer anyone any advice considering they are heading straight for a disaster in New York once Jimenez comes back in January.

Non sequitur. SBS is already providing programming services for CBS in Tampa and DC, and doing very well for CBS by it. Dan Mason used to sit on the SBS board, is interested in Spanish language radio, and CBS owns 10% of SBS with an option to buy 5% more. There are close and useful and productive ties there.

They blew that negotiation over 1 million dollars (they offered 4 million and he wanted 5 million), why would you think that CBS would listen to those clowns (classic radio fopau - Management thinking they are better programmers than Program Directors and DJ's that bring in the ratings).

SBS simply lost in a bidding situation to another broadcaster. CBS listens to SBS in two major markets, both larger than Orlando, and has profited from it.

The Luis Jimenez thing is totally separate, and there are many different game scenarios there.

There is a reason why Clear Channel is looking to unload there stations in Orlando. Granted I am not going to pin that just on Rumba but there is something to it...

Clear put a number of markets in trust pending the deal close, at which points the stations and clusters that no longer have ownership cap issues will come back to the privatized company. Rumba is billing very well, and is a certified success, so there is no reason to think that was a mistake... it was actually a move of some skill and intelligence.

For you to even suggest that there is a 6 share still out there is and I apologize, rediculous that means with 98.1 4.5 share and Rumba's 8-9 share your implying that there is close to 20 hispanic shares in Orlando..

Rumba has a 4.5 share on the average and Mega has a mid-3 share. Total between the two is less than an 8 right now, and there should be about 14 to 16 diary shares in Spanish in the market based on language preference and normal Hispanic TSLs.

.WOW where are all these hispanics?

They are underserved or not served, and not listening to Spanish language radio or listening very little. Most of the desirable formats are not taken...

What part of town do you live in? Again, that is a major major reach...one of the best way's I think to back up what I think is things like the festivals like Calle Orange, when I compare that to Calle 8 festival in Miami it's not even is the same stratasphere as far as number as people. There is hispanics in central florida but I am pretty tired of a few thinking or trying to make this out to be more than it is, it's not reality.

Calle 8 is unique in the whole US. Don't expect any other market to have anything like it; it goes back to pride in being Cuban originally and has a good deal of the "exile mentality" attached to it ("qué duro está el exilio, mi sangre."). Puerto Ricans are not exiles, nor are Mexicans, Colombians, Dominicans, etc. Big difference.

 

[CR]

WOCL had a 'million dollar' research done in 2002 and the then PD told the then new management that it was cute, but he'd do something different. He's no longer there. The word from sales is that they are under billing by massive amounts. Just the type of thing that corporate finally starts looking at. The current management of 1059 is a corporate stooge who is more concerned with the uppers giving him another job based on him doing what he was told than making his gig in Orlando work. I say don't flip it, just let someone else program it.

 

[P-R]

Hooking up a mic at Gatorland and carrying the sounds of the big reptiles passing gas might do better than what is and has been done. ROFLOL ;D

 

[kentraco]

Hooking up a mic at Gatorland and carrying the sounds of the big reptiles passing gas might do better than what is and has been done.

REPTIFART 105.9?

I'd listen.

 

[Parttimer]

Look...Star is #1, Rumba is #4 12+ in the last trend.

Think South Florida going forward... the market will be absolutely dominated by urban and Hispanic formats.

 

[ocradiofreak]

I've been listening to O-Rock online and the station sounds really good. That area could definitely use two rock stations, with WJRR more Active and WOCL Alternative. It's a college town. I think they probably suffered from the loss of Howard and are still picking up the pieces. The format and the imaging is great on O-Rock. Even though I think they hurt from Howard I have heard a lot of people say that they like the "Morning After Show." I really hope they can keep the format the way it is.

 

[radio_connector]

I don't want to get into a tit for tat with David but I feel a need to respond. First of all my uncle knows you very well and he claims that your an incredibly intelligent person. So based on that I will give you the benefit of the doubt, but still will respond. SBS didn't not get out bid by anyone. Jimenez simply wanted as much money as they were paying there morning guy in L.A. I am certain that Univision was there waiting with open arms but with first hand knowledge of how things went down on those negotiations I can unequivacly write that it was strictly a management decision not to re-sign him. The GM told the owner that they can replicate that morning show without the overhead and it has back fired big time on them. There was research done just recently and it basically came back that 65% of there P1's are going to listen to Jimenez when he comes back. I will re-write that for you 65% of there P1's are waiting for Jimenez...there is no contigent plan by CBS or SBS for that kinda of situation. They simply blew it...
Secondly, I don't need to know the exact reason why CBS won't go Spanish in Orlando with 105.9, if I did I would be on a first call bases with Mason, Earnest and Scott wich I am not. It's the same reason why everything happens or doesn't happen in Corporate America, MONEY. I am certain that they did there research and it came back that there isn't as many engineers, CPA's and "professionals" as your earlier post suggested. The majority of Hispanics are in the service industry in Orlando and it's probably the worst paid profession in Central Florida. Those they are not very affluent. There is the exception I know I am painting a broad brush stroke but it's true non-the-less. I agree with a great majority of what you write but have to disagree with a few of your reasons they just don't add up to me.

 

[davideduardo]

SBS didn't not get out bid by anyone. Jimenez simply wanted as much money as they were paying there morning guy in L.A.

Renán in LA was already making less than Luis was making at SBS; Renán was "damaged goods" after being released by HBC and never was the #1 Spanish language morning show in LA after he left HBC. Today, he is about 4th among the Spanish language stations, being beaten by Piolín and don Cheto and beaten or tied by Buenos Días on Recuerdo.

I am certain that Univision was there waiting with open arms but with first hand knowledge of how things went down on those negotiations I can unequivacly write that it was strictly a management decision not to re-sign him. The GM told the owner that they can replicate that morning show without the overhead and it has back fired big time on them. There was research done just recently and it basically came back that 65% of there P1's are going to listen to Jimenez when he comes back. I will re-write that for you 65% of there P1's are waiting for Jimenez...there is no contigent plan by CBS or SBS for that kinda of situation. They simply blew it...

They simply said "no" to matching an offer. And CBS has noting to do with programming WSKQ... they are investors, not operators of SBS.

As to what listeners will do, hopefully you are right. But we can't expect SBS to not put up a good fight in mornings, so quantifying ratings before the fact is pretty dangerous.

Secondly, I don't need to know the exact reason why CBS won't go Spanish in Orlando with 105.9, if I did I would be on a first call bases with Mason, Earnest and Scott wich I am not. It's the same reason why everything happens or doesn't happen in Corporate America, MONEY. I am certain that they did there research and it came back that there isn't as many engineers, CPA's and "professionals" as your earlier post suggested. The majority of Hispanics are in the service industry in Orlando and it's probably the worst paid profession in Central Florida. Those they are not very affluent. There is the exception I know I am painting a broad brush stroke but it's true non-the-less. I agree with a great majority of what you write but have to disagree with a few of your reasons they just don't add up to me.

It's interesting that over half of the graduating classes of the engineering school at Mayagüez of recent are in Orlando or the area. One of my daughters is a CPA and Auditor, and about a third of the grads from her class at the Inter are in Orlando, and another 15% elsewhere in Florida. Compared to the 50's and 60's when mostly rural residents migrated to NE and the NE, this migration is significantly laden with urban professionals. The reason is the nasty social and political environment in PR, not poverty. So there is a sizable middle and upper class there, unlike prior migrations.

 

[Eor36]

Look, no one knows what he format flip is going to be even if there is going to be a format
flip. Spanish, English, French German, whatever! The only people that know are those inside
management. This forum is all about speculation and opinion and some people are now using
this forum to make some pathetic attack on someone who just gave their opinion. If someone
says they know what the flip is going to be but they can't divulge that information then they
don't know. If someone has an opinion it's fine to respond to that opinion but quit attacking
people for what they say. If someone puts up stats or says the know this, that or the other
let it go and quit trying to do research in some attempt to trump what that other person said!
Do you really have that much time on your hands?!?! Last but not least, grow up, let this
crap go and let's get back to our opinions and speculations about the pathetic radio market
in this city called Orlando.

 

[CR]

The format and the imaging is great on O-Rock.

I'll give you that, but the programming sucks. It's 'by the numbers only' radio at its best, and predictable at worst.

 

[vadar]

Can we just bring back WDIZ and call it Rock 106? Re-tool it and let it go up against 96.5 and 101.1.

 

[BIG APE]

;D No, Let's bring back WLOF, WHOO< WKIS< WDBO<

 

[MusicMan11]

i vote for WLOF......john lander in the morning, jim casey middays.........i forget who did afternoon drive....burt brown? tc dooley at night....

 

[Morpheux]

Whatever the flip may be to,it will most likely not be executed well enough to be an improvement on current ratings. This is probably the only station in Orlando with an on air staff that stands out from the norm with people like "Criminal Ben" 'Scot and Jody" (when they were a team) Savannah etc...

The music has always been stale though.I think they could find a niche by re-introducing breaks back to Orlando airwaves along with other factions of "dance" music. Of course,that is not very likely but there is a following for it here. There is a large young, underserved population that goes out frequently who this music appeals too.

As far as for another Spanish language station there is definitely room for that as well. WPYO might throw in a few crossover Reggaeton tracks here and there but this only appeals to those Latinos who were born in the US. There still is a need for a youth oriented leaning Latin Rhythmic station here that appeals to those who are recent arrivals.

 

[vadar]

alright, I 'll give you WLOF, what about Zeta 6, or 105.9?

 

[MusicMan11]

i believe that was ZETA 7, WORJ- they have a site.........http://worj.com/home.htm

105.9? cool?

 

[Earlyriser]

They are flipping, jan 2.

 

[cflradio]

On Jan 2, what will it be?

 

[Earlyriser]

Story is some sort of classic hits.