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cbs flip of

youreallcrazy said:
"If you are not listening intently to the History of R&R, you should be. This is an updated version, not much changed from the original; which was done in 1967 or 68, with a two track tape recorder, carts and a splicing block!"
Click to expand...

That's what I'm enjoying so much about it....Especially the 'collages' with short song segments that are put together with such precision on the 'beats'. Anyone can do that with Adobe Audition, an Audicy or Protools....But when you realize that all that stuff was done with a blade, splicing tape, and probably some considerable bleeding, us newcomers really get a kick out of it!!
 
Here is one reason alternative struggles (just one though). Nobody between the ages of 18 and 34 has a home phone. Without a home phone you won't be selected as a potential diary recipient. Without a diary--no arbitron. Alternative actually seems to be doing well in Houston with the PPM (once they get one of the many kinks worked out with that)...in Philly, the switch was made from talk back to an alternative-ish station...and growth seems to be occuring (especially after douching O and A). One thing that will also help with the PPM's is installing them in test subject's cell phones....that way no one will forget to charge them, or leave them on the charger. No one ever seems to forget their cell phone on the charger.

SR
 
Starman1951 said:
I always find it strange that there is no real outlet for music that always seems to get a sold out crowd downtown at the Social.

But we won't know as long as the ones in charge just want to regulate it to the weekends (where it got pre-empted this weekend for football). There's a lot of new music out there, but as long as people like you are in charge, terrestial radio will still be bland when it has so much more potential.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that a format isn't going to do well just because it sells out at the clubs. There are plenty of examples of club successes that have failed miserably on the radio, like 70's, 80's, jammin' oldies, and dance.

I'm not convinced alternative is dead. CHR, remember, was left for dead in the early 90's only to see it spike back up five years later. So, I'm reluctant to call alternative dead. However, it's definitely not what it was 10 years ago. More stations are leaving the format than are picking it up, and it's harder to make money with alternative than it was a few years ago. It doesn't seem to appeal to the masses like it once did. Some of it may be because of the cell phone boom, which means less Arbitron participation by alternative P1's. I also suspect modern AC didn't help as many of the female listeners left the format and stayed with their favorite stations as they evolved into Hot AC and CHR formats. Also, the active rock format probably hasn't helped much. As alternative got more popular, stations began realizing that playing new rock and classic rock together wasn't the best way to go, and alternative stations began losing a lot of their male listeners to these new active rock stations that resulted from this realization. Whatever the reason, alternative is in a down cycle right now. It may come back, and, if it does, more stations will jump back on the bandwagon, but more are likely to drop it in the immediate future.
 
Starman1951 said:
I always find it strange that there is no real outlet for music that always seems to get a sold out crowd downtown at the Social.
Click to expand...

Starman,

Just wondering...what is capacity at the Social downtown? 800? a thousand? hardly a substantial piece of population of Orlando...

actually, come to think of it, there WAS a station in town who played the music that the "social crowd" enjoyed...they were around for 10 years or so...

You should have checked them out! They're on frequency 105.9...





sorry, "were" on frequency 105.9...
 
The Social is a nice small venue...the capacity is around 400 - 425...but hardly a guage of the success and impact of a musical genre.

SR
 
What has Tracy Young been doing in her Post-Magic career? She was a terrific co-worker(I worked at the old 740 WWNZ when Paxson owned the cluster)and one of the nicest people I met there!

Peter King
 
youreallcrazy said:
Starman,

Just wondering...what is capacity at the Social downtown? 800? a thousand? hardly a substantial piece of population of Orlando...

actually, come to think of it, there WAS a station in town who played the music that the "social crowd" enjoyed...they were around for 10 years or so...

You should have checked them out! They're on frequency 105.9...





sorry, "were" on frequency 105.9...
Click to expand...

From 9am to 10am on Sundays. That's hardly telling.

As far as Bobby Smith being responsible for the flip, he sure as hell didn't do anything to stop it. People yelled from the mountains that when you looked at the research, there was too much conflicting information based on shifting patterns in listening and extrapolations from other metros to base your programming only on that. They yelled that there was a substantial amount of things wrong with the music and that they needed to fight against what corporate, detached from Orlando, was telling him. He ignored it all. He toed the company line in order to remain employed. Saved jobs? Whose job outside his own did he save? He is a nice guy, don't get me wrong, but he seems to have a "me first" attitude when it comes to programming. He didn't do everything he could do to save the station or jobs. He picked only a few battles to fight that he knew going in he could win from his buddies up the chain. He is good on the air, no doubt, but if you asked people who worked there who was a better programmer, Alan Smith whom the majority there despised or Bobby, they will tell you Alan. The fact is, the people who worked there and listened to the people who loved the station knew there was an identity crisis and a huge problem with the playlist. Bobby pretended to listen then programmed by the numbers again. Go ahead and ask anyone who worked with him the past few years and see what they say. I'd bet they'd say he's a hell of a nice guy, but a horrible programmer.
 
Hey, RadioSanchez, Hope all is well, Brother. It seems like they are repeating segments already aired. I have been airchecking this whole thing (save for 7 hours or so Friday night) from my tuner off the air to PC hard drive, and I've already heard a lot of this evenings segments last night. I'm working on some station equipment at home and listening to 105.9 off the air... I LOVE This Feature. I first listened to it on my ol' bicycle AM Radio tuned to WRKO 680 Boston back in the mid-late 70s. It usually ran on holiday weekends, like Labor Day if memory serves. WRKO always had year-end countdown features.

How many hours is this feature actually running these days? I didn't even think it would be available for airing. I think it was a BRILLIANT decision to roll the alleged Classic Hits format with the History of Rock and Roll (even though the jingles have apparently been removed).

Oldies is still cooking full-bore on Flagler Beach's The Blizzard (www.theblizzard.us) WFBO-LP 93.3 and I think they are about to be 'ganked' from 1230 WSBB if they haven't already done so. I'll have to check. Wonder how this unfolds for WEUS 810...?
 
If this format IS classic hits, and if anyone in that building has half a brain, they would reveal the format tomorrow on Elvis's birthday!

"Oldies and the KING live on in Orlando"!!

Lets see if it happens! Sports teaser on their website now!
 
Half a brain here...great idea, really I think that is a great idea. One small problem Elvis won't be a prominent artist on the new format. It won't be like 810AM or your classic oldies radio station. 60's will be sprinkled in but not at the forefront of the station. From what I hear they will be launching this week...not tomorrow but this week. I don't believe it will disapoint the listening audience...a real throwback radio station, good stuff.
 
Renfield, great post but let me add this also, it's unfortunate but alternative rock bands have lost their edge, which in small part may add to it's demise. I think when your pissed off u create better music. Maybe it's me but all the bands really started sounding the same...the day's of Rage, KORN and Alice and Chains are long gone in the genre...I really hope it makes a come back. For now it's not a viable money making format. Hey I don't even think JRR should be jumping for joy over anything they are not exactly burning up the rating books either. Furthermore, if they keep fireing their talent they will head right for the radio abyss also and once they get sold we will see where there cluster is at? Right now Cox is the shinning star in Orlando.

I think what people forget is that radio is a business. When I write that I mean it's a big big business, revolves around money and growth. That is the world we live in and in this country everything is moved around money. Radio is a great place to be in but I think people in the industry forget that it's a business first and foremost...its easy to loose yourself in radio. I have...but then I get a reminder like this flip that it's a money making business and a job. I don't think it's fair what happened to Orock but it's reality. I get why people are upset and real emotional about this flip. I actually saw a guy protesting today infront of the building...poor guy. I still don't beleive Bobby Smith should get blamed, they wanted to filp this station a year and a half ago. He took himself off the air, which is risky for a PD to do because it makes it that much easier to loose your job. He and the station manager tried several changes to the station and nothing could gain any form of tracktion. They were getting killed in TSL; trend after trend after book...It seemed like they would make a change just so they can tell the corporate guys to give it a chance and hold them off for a little while longer. He obviously made some mistakes but the guy tried to turn things around...yes he is keeping his job for now but don't be mad at a guy who not by his choice was able to keep his job. The truth is if I were in his shoes I would of tried to keep my job also, whoever says differently is lieing, but don't make it seem like that was his only priority because that is simply not true. The one thing I know about working in radio is that everyone thinks they are better program directors than the current one...I get it, trust me...reality sucks sometimes
 
My calendar says 35 years ago on January 8th, Elvis sues wife, Priscilla, for divorce. Happy boithday, Elvis. Haha...
 
As a former O-Rockian who was fortunate enough to see the iceberg months before the ship collided with it...I will say that, like all PD's, there were things that Bobby Smith did very well AND there were things that were done very poorly. None of that matters now, and it is all a learning experience for those smart enough to pay attention.

As far as the music...the homogenization process is what has really killed the genre. When it was discovered that bands like Creed, Nickleback, 3 Doors Down, 3 Days Grace, etc. could be played on Active, Alternative, CHR, and AC stations all at the same time (see DAUGHTRY) it took away alot of what was special about the genre. Few band are afforded the opportunity to break ground and experiment because of the "one and done" mentality. If you dont have a hit right out of the chute...you are dropped. So...keep the tune to NO MORE than 3 1/2 minutes...eliminate the guitar solos...and get to the hook in the first 15 seconds.

The Arbitron system is just ONE of the reasons Alternative is failing...ANOTHER major reason is that ALTERNATIVE...isn't.

Everyone is still waiting around for the next Grunge to come about. Guns And Roses shook things up...Nirvana shook things up...name ONE band in the last 3 years that you can honestly say will be given an opporunity to grow to a 3rd disc and show what they are truly made of. It takes 3 discs for a band to really discover who they are. The first one is easy...they have been writing all their lives. It is being given the shot at longevity by a record company that is looking for the quick, across-the-format hit that is the challenge.
 
CR said:
youreallcrazy said:
Starman,

Just wondering...what is capacity at the Social downtown? 800? a thousand? hardly a substantial piece of population of Orlando...

actually, come to think of it, there WAS a station in town who played the music that the "social crowd" enjoyed...they were around for 10 years or so...

You should have checked them out! They're on frequency 105.9...





sorry, "were" on frequency 105.9...
Click to expand...

From 9am to 10am on Sundays. That's hardly telling.

As far as Bobby Smith being responsible for the flip, he sure as hell didn't do anything to stop it. People yelled from the mountains that when you looked at the research, there was too much conflicting information based on shifting patterns in listening and extrapolations from other metros to base your programming only on that. They yelled that there was a substantial amount of things wrong with the music and that they needed to fight against what corporate, detached from Orlando, was telling him. He ignored it all. He toed the company line in order to remain employed. Saved jobs? Whose job outside his own did he save? He is a nice guy, don't get me wrong, but he seems to have a "me first" attitude when it comes to programming. He didn't do everything he could do to save the station or jobs. He picked only a few battles to fight that he knew going in he could win from his buddies up the chain. He is good on the air, no doubt, but if you asked people who worked there who was a better programmer, Alan Smith whom the majority there despised or Bobby, they will tell you Alan. The fact is, the people who worked there and listened to the people who loved the station knew there was an identity crisis and a huge problem with the playlist. Bobby pretended to listen then programmed by the numbers again. Go ahead and ask anyone who worked with him the past few years and see what they say. I'd bet they'd say he's a hell of a nice guy, but a horrible programmer.
Click to expand...


Hmmmm. Hey now.
 
radio_connector said:
The truth is if I were in his shoes I would of tried to keep my job also, whoever says differently is lieing, but don't make it seem like that was his only priority because that is simply not true. The one thing I know about working in radio is that everyone thinks they are better program directors than the current one...I get it, trust me...reality sucks sometimes
Click to expand...

BS. You mean "would have" as there's no such thing as "would of" in that grammatical sense. I was in his shoes and tried to save the station, not just my job. You don't know what is true in that situation, because you weren't there. I was, like Renfield was. I never thought I could program better, I just knew that he wasn't listening to anyone save corporate. Not his employees who have been in the metro longer than he was and knew it better, not the listeners who begged for change. He actually asked the programmers from KROQ for advise instead of his contingents, who told him, despite what they do, to tighten down the playlist. Counterintuitive to the market, but he listened to them before his own people, which was also in contradistinction to how they program KROQ. Basically, he listened to everyone not in Orlando and followed their lead, hampering the talent in the meantime, never wanting to be the pulse of the community he was supposed to serve. Identity crisis is the fault of one person, the program director. He was, therefore he is to blame, end of story.
 
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