And maybe we can discuss some of those OTHER STATIONS on here too. C'mon everybody, give CBS-FM a rest, besides they havent even been back on the air two weeks yet! It's too early for all this hatin' on the new/old jocks, etc. Somebody start a rumour about where the Jack FM format is going to end up or something!
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DavidEduardo said:
God, you can't even take a joke. Sad.
DavidEduardo said:
Funny, I would have done this with CBS-FM and I had no access to any "data". It's not brain surgery, alot of it is common sense, which, considering the fact you can't even see a joke for a joke, tells you something.
N
NJListener
Guest
"After you finish beating yourself up...
Check out www.yes.com. You can view hour by hour playlists of WCBS on that site (along with thousands of other stations as well)."
R
Very cool, I went there but had a difficult time navigating around that site. I will try again when I have had some sleep. Thanks very much.
Check out www.yes.com. You can view hour by hour playlists of WCBS on that site (along with thousands of other stations as well)."
R
Very cool, I went there but had a difficult time navigating around that site. I will try again when I have had some sleep. Thanks very much.
wgliradio said:
When the joke, if it was indeed one (the Internet does not convey emotion particularly well), indicates a lack of understanding of the industy or a lack of respect for copyright and contract law, then the joke is un-funny. I don't find jokes about axe murderers amusing, either.
I doubt it. If you could have, you'd be progrmming a major station. Of course, if you think consulting with the listeners about what they want to hear is not necessary, then we know why you are not programming a station.
Actually, while common sense is a part of most anyting we do, in a market crowded with hundreds and hundreds of entertainment options, nobody in an office can hope to program without feedback from the listener.
As Warren Buffet says, "comon sense is not that common."
DavidEduardo said:
Comparing axe murderers to programmers.... wait a minute.
It also shows that I know how to push your buttons. I knew my initial comment would get you all hot and bothered because it was a stone hurled at your precious glass house. You're as predictable as the stations you program.
DavidEduardo said:
As I've told you before, give me a shot. here's my email: [email protected]
Contact me.
DavidEduardo said:
There is a difference between what a listener will say when he/she is put on the spot and how a listener will actually react when the scenerio plays out in real life. Listener John may say he likes Burned out song A, but that does not mean he won't tune it out when it comes on WXXX.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
wgliradio said:
This may shock you, but after over 30 years of doing listener research, we've kinda figured out how to ask questions, the right questions to ask, the right listeners to ask, etc.
David is right- those with little or no knowledge of how research works acting like they really know "the listener" and, therefore, know better than the rest how to do radio right is unbelievable. I'm fascinated by space travel but wouldn't dream of advising engineers at the Jet Propulsion Labs how to send a rocket into space.
wgliradio said:
How's your Spanish? And major market programming experience. Nobody in a top 50 market is going to hire a PD with no track record to manage a $50 to $400 million dollar asset.
Oldiescat answere this well. Music testing goes back three decades, and by now we have learned by experience how to recruit and ask questions. In fact, when I work on a recruit, it takes several hours to come up with the specifications just on who to invite to a test and the process involves population data, ZIP code listening, age range in PD Advantage, sharing, ratings trends, and a number of other factors. The questionnaires used at a test may take a day to do for each test, and the answers to the questions are used for sorts on the song data. On top of that, we have a moderator who does all tests and who is brillant in reading the room and sensing understanding, confusion, etc., and who also stresses the fact that each listener has a chance to have their personal feelings heard... years of experience and hundreds and hundreds of tests teach the nuances.
And most of the research mistakes were made years ago. As a friend of mine who was fired in a major market was told by the staiton owner, "Son, you don't learn from your successes." Every time something goes wrong, we correct (as an industry) and learn from these experiences. Research is a science; we know the margins of error, things that can cause bias, like interviewer dress or an intimidating location, and so on. But the big test is whether the research helps the station do its best.... for tht we have the Arbitron report card.
DavidEduardo said:
NO, usually they hire some burned out friend or someone they owe a favor to, or maybe it's someone legit... but all they bring are the same tired ideas. And my Spanish is not so good, but that's the kind of barrier which makes Spanish based formats so different than English based formats, and we've had this conversation before.
Test music, but use your brain.
R
RADIOGM
Guest
Yep, a few pre 1964 tunes on CBS-FM. I'm just not sure that Little Richard sounds correct next to Cyndi Lauper!
RGM
RGM
M
mcmannors
Guest
RADIOGM said:
Both Little Richard and Cyndi Lauper can be played on the same station, just make sure they aren't played back to back!
On a similar note, like Rusty Potz used to say: "Never play two female artists back to back!"
R
RADIOGM
Guest
And Rusty is still in - Sag Harbor?
RGM
RGM
wgliradio said:
WLNG is tied for second with WBEA, and quite a bit behind WEHM. The market rank is #260, so I doubt any other in the market can do reserch... not at about $35 k a test on LI. The whole market, with 14 local signals, has about $7.1 million in total revenue.
DavidEduardo said:
WLNG is tied for second in what demo age group? I guess you're not talking about 12+ are you? Hmm nice to see a AAA format (WEHM) #2 12+ in ANY market!! ;D
DavidEduardo said:
Since you have no ties to any of these stations, you don't know what you're talking about, again. Ask anyone who owns any of these stations, or any station in Market 18 itself for that matter if they wouldn't want a brand like WLNG, they would give their left nut for the type of community and local recognition WLNG has built and the cash cow it is.
BTW: WLNG was # 1 12+ with a 7.6 Spring 07.
SuperRadioFan said:
I'n not subscribed to that market... it is 12+ Winter.
wgliradio said:
Why would having ties matter? The market is too small to afford any kind of formal music testing, due to cost.
I don't know how you can compare market 18 with market 260.
WEHM, WRCN and WLNG bill nearly identically. The real issue is how much you can make on billings of $1.2 million average, after expenses. It is really, for the owner, unless a cluster or group, guaranteed lifetime employment in one of the most expensive places in the US to live.
You can not have a "cash cow" billing just over a million. After expenses, there is no much left. A cash cow is one of the top NYC FMs, not a class A in a tiny, tiny market. In fact, it is really not a separate rated market... just an embedded market in the Nassau Suffolk overall market... it's a breakout.
Maybe Paul Sidney enjoys being GM, PD, GSM and half the other things at the station (He was in the International Broadcasters Idea Bank back when he only had the 1600 AM), but most people would not consider that enviable.
Fine, today. Yesterday, the data available was Winter. Given that the top 3 bill about the same, and the market is not transactional, ratings variations don't mean much. The fact is that there are several stations, in ratings and billings, all at the same level. And the market has been almost flat in revenue for the last 8 years.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Wayne McMannors said:RADIOGM said:
Both Little Richard and Cyndi Lauper can be played on the same station, just make sure they aren't played back to back!
On a similar note, like Rusty Potz used to say: "Never play two female artists back to back!"
Why not? You guys whine and complain that radio's too predictable, too cookie cutter, too corporate and formulated.
So, then (while I might not have Little Richard and Cyndi Lauper on my station), what "bad" is there for the listener playing them next to each other, or two female acts back-to-back?
(THIS should be good LOL)
DavidEduardo said:
But these stations do use research and are consulted. WLNG flies pretty blind on its own instincts and has for years and has been more than successful.
DavidEduardo said:
260 is an extrap from 18 (Nassau Suffolk) which is an extrap from 1 (New York). WLNG is well respected in the Long Island radio community and well known by small market owners across the country.
DavidEduardo said:
Believe me, I don't think the major players involved worry.
DavidEduardo said:
Again, since you are out of touch with this market, you are incorrect. There is no doubt in radio circles that people understand.
Here it is from someone who programmed on the East End at WWHB 107.1 in the 1980's... in response to Allan Sniffen, another moron, who doesn't get WLNG either because the jingles don't line up with WABC.
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For years, programmers and consultants have tried to figure out what makes WLNG tick or try to concoct a scenario as to why it still exists. I’ve lived on the East End of Long Island most of my life and I’ve just recently begun to understand why this station works.
WLNG is to radio much like the Pennysaver is to newspapers. Not something you would ever read from cover to cover, but if you were looking for something local, you would definitely open the pages. There’s a little bit of everything and it’s all just around the corner. WLNG isn’t about playing “oldies,” it’s about the community and what’s going on. If the latest thing in radio is your IPOD on shuffle, then LNG is your scanner on roam.
The original post mentions ratings and out here in wine country ratings are for suckers. Don Brink of WRCN once told me that all the ratings meant was that someone sneezed while filling out a diary and you got credit for it. Back then there was no Hamptons-Riverhead book, but it still holds true today. WLNG doesn’t buy or need “the book” because it’s the response to the ads that retain the sale and LNG is way ahead of the competition. As just a small example; anytime I’ve run into Paul, Rusty or Gary and they’ve put me on the air for one minute, I’ll run into 5-6 people who will later say they heard me on the air. Politicians from all east end towns know their ad HAS to be on LNG to be re-elected. You see, despite having 75 minutes worth of commercials per hour, people listen to those ads much like people read the ads in the Pennysaver. And like the Pennysaver, the commercials are part of the content. Good, bad or ugly; most people do their own ads!
Death Notices and lost dogs may sound bizarre to the outsider, but many times I’ve been able to reach out to a family I’ve known over the years because I heard it over the air. I’ve known many people who’ve had pets returned to them through WLNG. I know what’s going on in my kids‘ schools, when the carnival is coming to Jamesport and where last night’s fire took place. And you haven’t experienced all of radio’s wonder until you’ve listened to Paul Sidney during a hurricane.
Now could all this be done without the reverb, jingles and hitting the post on “Color My World?” Of course, but where else could you do and play what you wanted on the air and still win big? Seriously, if you could play a song that peaked at # 47 in 1962 just because it was your favorite song and could get away with it, wouldn’t you? And don’t think those guys don’t know it. As the bumper sticker says, “I Put Up With WLNG.” And believe me, many do. I’ve gone into my accountant’s office and heard Rusty giving away donuts for TV trivia. And then have the secretary tell me to hold on a sec because she was calling in the answer. I’ve been on people’s boats and there’s LNG’s marine report. I’ve sat in the Supervisor of the Town of Riverhead’s car and there was WLNG so he would know what was going on.
Allan, you say there’s no competition out here and that’s simply not true. There are more signals on the dial here than in midtown Manhattan. Plenty of local stations with equal or better signal patterns cover the market, plus a great deal of Connecticut stations provide many well-tested formats. And out here, competition includes everything from newspapers to the phone book to the signboards on the back of a Little League field. Unlike New York, there are no specific “newspaper” or “radio buys.” Businesses have one, often very lean, advertising budget and you fight for any dollar you can get.
You say that WLNG wouldn’t work in a market like New York and you are absolutely, unequivocally correct. But to that I have to add that you could take any radio station from New York City and put it out here and it would not bill what WLNG bills. Unless you have competed against, worked for and/or lived with WLNG; you will sound like hundreds of other “big-city” programmers who think they can teach these hicks on the twin forks a thing or two about radio. Come out here and try it. Your station might sound good and may even top the ratings on occasion (see above). But you will lose money.
There are many stations out here that have and are still trying. I tried with WWHB, Paul Simon and Billy Joel tried after I left, SONY tried with “big city” personalities and a seven person newsroom. Even WNEW-FM, in its rock ‘n roll heyday, gave it their best shot. They’re all gone. Out here, in our “real world,” Paul Sidney and company are still standing.
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