CBS-FM Audio Tweaks?

[bigtom101]

Went to a local coffee shop today that usually has 101 on and has for years, and they switched to Lite. I joked with the person behind the counter about it, and they said the station sounded like it was playing music underwater and sounded crappy over the store speakers recently.

If non radio people are noticing, Hudson Street, we have a problem...

Sweet lord....that is a bad sign. Especially in a PPM market when in business listening like that helps boost ratings, even if passive listening.

 

[erwin33]

Went to a local coffee shop today that usually has 101 on and has for years, and they switched to Lite. I joked with the person behind the counter about it, and they said the station sounded like it was playing music underwater and sounded crappy over the store speakers recently.

If non radio people are noticing, Hudson Street, we have a problem...

No kidding! Really? From a worsed tweaked optimod 8500 station to a perfectly tweaked Omnia.11 station. It's a better choice indeed.

 

[bigtom101]

No kidding! Really? From a worsed tweaked optimod 8500 station to a perfectly tweaked Omnia.11 station. It's a better choice indeed.

I heard CBS-FM has a 8600 - I doubt anyone will buy one after hearing the audio on 101.1!

Lite FM has a Omnia 11? I haven't heard any improvement in the audio :/

 

[RichardOShea]

I don't think the improvements in these new boxes are dramatic. They're just excuses to turn it up louder. At this point the improvement seems to be new hardware. I've heard the new stuff and there may be a small improvement but one worth 12k?

 

[erwin33]

No kidding! Really? From a worsed tweaked optimod 8500 station to a perfectly tweaked Omnia.11 station. It's a better choice indeed.

I heard CBS-FM has a 8600 - I doubt anyone will buy one after hearing the audio on 101.1!

Lite FM has a Omnia 11? I haven't heard any improvement in the audio :/

It's still a guess it's an Omnia.11 because Z100 use one, maybe all Clear Channel stations in NYC change to this new box.

 

[Jay Walker]

I don't think the improvements in these new boxes are dramatic. They're just excuses to turn it up louder. At this point the improvement seems to be new hardware. I've heard the new stuff and there may be a small improvement but one worth 12k?

It's not the "tool" it's the "hand" on the tool that makes a difference.

With any of my clients, the first step is checking the quality of the source material, next it's level management through the total system. Once these items are correct, then and only then are you ready to tweak. I pride myself on maximizing a stations sonic signature no matter the box. Out of the shipping box settings are always great points to start from, but the sonic signature is only achieved with lots of ear-time on a variety of devices over a lot of time.

On 12k boxes...
The new DSP processors are wonderful in their ability to micro-tweak to a degree we were never able to achieve with the previous attack/recovery Gain Reduction controls. Volumax/Audimax through the Orban 8100 were simple to set up yes, but again the tweak-ability is not as good as the new toys. I am a big fan of both Omnia and Orban, and depending on the format both have their strengths.

I'm certain that the rough patch posters are describing in NYC will be resolved as CBS has the best around in my humble opinion. It's probably several layers of issues we are not aware of, differences in direction, equipment changes etc.

I have total confidence that the audio issues will be corrected...

 

[bigtom101]

It's not the "tool" it's the "hand" on the tool that makes a difference[/b].

I think there are so many controls that people end up intimidated or don't realize what they are tweaking and end up driving into a ditch. Your comments about minutia controls exemplify that. Processors have multiple layers of control but most people want the complex controls and then can't pilot the ship. As for CBS, the audio has now been bad for well over a year. I would think they would have gotten it by now.

 

[Jay Walker]

It's not the "tool" it's the "hand" on the tool that makes a difference[/b].

I think there are so many controls that people end up intimidated or don't realize what they are tweaking and end up driving into a ditch. Your comments about minutia controls exemplify that. Processors have multiple layers of control but most people want the complex controls and then can't pilot the ship. As for CBS, the audio has now been bad for well over a year. I would think they would have gotten it by now.

The beauty of the DSP box is IF you drive it into the wall there is a "reverse" by simply going back to a factory pre-set. However I did come across an early DSP box where someone blew out the factory presets (WTF?) That took more effort.

Knowing the quality of CBS I'm sure there are multi-layer issues involved as they are not ones to sit around wringing hands...

 

[LenoxAve]

If CBS does have "the best around," then they sure aren't showing it. These issues have plagued the station for months. No competent engineering staff would allow the station to sound like this for months on end. There never were issues this obvious before recently. Sister station 92.3 also sounds terrible compared with KTU and Z. Similarly, the mediocre sounding Lite even blows CBS-FM or of the water. There are songs where you can't even hear the high end. The station may be on AM with the way it sounds.

Sounds like they could use some new ears in the department. Or someone who will actually fix these issues in a timely fashion. It's market #1, people. Let's start acting like it.

I can no longer listen to the station for long periods of time.

 

[bigtom101]

The beauty of the DSP box is IF you drive it into the wall there is a "reverse" by simply going back to a factory pre-set.[/b] However I did come across an early DSP box where someone blew out the factory presets (WTF?) That took more effort.

Knowing the quality of CBS I'm sure there are multi-layer issues involved as they are not ones to sit around wringing hands...

In that case, just find the preset(s) from Mike Erickson on the 8500 and walk away. Of course, from what I remember Mike had a few boxes in front of the Optimod - hopefully they are still in line.

CBS Radio does have great engineers - the sound of K-Earth 101 & KOOL 94.5 is proof of that. But the longer this goes on, the more it seems the "multi layered" issues are people related rather than equipment.

 

[ty_kleinle]

I was driving in my car yesterday and have 101.1 as one of the presets. Usually, it's WBEB out of philly because of my location (Stroudsburg) and yesterday I thought I had pushed the one preset which is a direct translator for WRNJ-AM, 92.7. I heard Let's Spend The Night Together, and just assumed it was 92.7 because of the flat dead mono-like audio (like AM translators) and how WBEB doesn't play The Rolling Stones. Sure enough, I looked at the display and it was actually 101.1 WCBS I was picking up from a part in my town where Philly stations are blocked. Does the engineer even have a radio?! I have never heard such a bad sounding station in my life!

 

[Giacomo Siffredi]

I heard Let's Spend The Night Together, and just assumed it was 92.7 because of the flat dead mono-like audio (like AM translators)

Is it at all possible that CBS Radio is going for that sound? I was listening last night, and heard one of the Ford spots voiced by Mike Rowe. The sound was very similar to that which I heard while hearing the same spot air on WEPN 1050AM prior to the changeover to ESPN Deportes. First WCBS-FM was using reverb (albeit incorrectly) and now the sound is about as dull and flat as AM radio. As if they are trying to recreate the sound of Musicradio77 WABC.

Regardless, I left a constructively critical comment on their Facebook wall. Whether anyone at CBS Radio or WCBS-FM reads it or acts on it is anyone's guess. But I won't hold my breath too long...

 

[RadioMan203]

First WCBS-FM was using reverb (albeit incorrectly) and now the sound is about as dull and flat as AM radio. As if they are trying to recreate the sound of Musicradio77 WABC.

When I was active with the New York chapter of Society of Broadcast Engineers I was lucky enough to meet quite a few talented folks who knew their craft. It boils down to it either being an engineering decision or a programming decision. If it's indeed a programming decision then it's totally out of the hands of the engineers. If, on the other hand, it was a decision solely made by engineering, it's pretty sad - I simply can't (and don't) listen to it anymore.

As far as sounding like Musicradio77 WABC goes, I remember growing up listening to it as well as have plenty of airchecks at my disposal that seem to prove that even though WABC was an AM station that it had great audio. A nice bass thump (not quite on par with CKLW) and better than average processing. It's more of an insult to compare the way CBS-FM sounds like today to the way WABC sounded like in its MusicRadio heyday.

I know it sounded much better when Mike Erickson had his hand in it. Likewise, I had brought my own stash of processors when I worked at a couple of stations. Once time I even had a consultant tell me to pull my processors out of the line. I simply waited him out and when he left I put them back in during the next maintenance period. I think when Mike left they lost their golden ears.

 

[LenoxAve]

No kidding! Really? From a worsed tweaked optimod 8500 station to a perfectly tweaked Omnia.11 station. It's a better choice indeed.

I heard CBS-FM has a 8600 - I doubt anyone will buy one after hearing the audio on 101.1!

Lite FM has a Omnia 11? I haven't heard any improvement in the audio :/

Amazingly, after listening to CBS-FM, Lite's audio sounds pretty good. While there is some distortion in the vocals (clipping, I guess?), the overall sound is fairly crisp. Green Day's "Good Riddance," though, always sounds distorted on Lite.

The Clear Channel stations in NYC sound very well processed compared to their competition.

 

[erwin33]

I just read that old topic about the processing from CBS FM, when whe all enjoying that sound. I could not realize then that it sounds so bad these days. :-[

http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=171409.0

 

[secondchoice]

I don't think the improvements in these new boxes are dramatic. They're just excuses to turn it up louder. At this point the improvement seems to be new hardware. I've heard the new stuff and there may be a small improvement but one worth 12k?

Yes if it improves ratings half a point. Big market big dollars.

 

[bigtom101]

Yes if it improves ratings half a point. Big market big dollars.

I doubt the ratings will move up with this processing, but won't hurt them too much either.

I'm biased as hell towards processed audio, but I think Howard Hoffman's "Great Big Radio" and Tom Lawler's "Jammin 105" are benchmarks for how Classic Hits audio should sound. Rich, full, LOUD, and both have reverb that add depth to it without sounding like the audio is in the toilet.

Great Big Radio: http://www.loudcity.com/stations/greatbigradio/files/show/index.html
Jammin 105: jamminoldiesradio.com/?page_id=8

 

[Tom Wells]

Yes if it improves ratings half a point. Big market big dollars.

I doubt the ratings will move up with this processing, but won't hurt them too much either.

I'm biased as hell towards processed audio, but I think Howard Hoffman's "Great Big Radio" and Tom Lawler's "Jammin 105" are benchmarks for how Classic Hits audio should sound. Rich, full, LOUD, and both have reverb that add depth to it without sounding like the audio is in the toilet.

Great Big Radio: http://www.loudcity.com/stations/greatbigradio/files/show/index.html
Jammin 105: jamminoldiesradio.com/?page_id=8

I'd always rather hear a song on the radio, because when it's processed properly, it always sounds better on the radio than
on the direct source "dry" into some sound system.

Proper reverb/modulation is a delicate balancing act, and when it's adjusted ideally, the result IS Great Big Radio.

 

[iKPAT]

OK.

 

[LenoxAve]

OK.

No, it's not OK. It sounds like crap!

WMTR in Morristown sounds better, and they're an AM station!