CBS-FM: "New York's Home For The Holidays"

[kms575]

Considering that CBSFM is #3 with a normal format, it seems like a risk, especially because many people (like me) would stop listening until the Xmas overload had ended. People on the board get sick of Xmas music, but so do regular people out there, believe me. Especially in NYC where so many people are Jewish.

I think it's unlikely WCBS or KRTH will make that move. They'll stick with the mixture.

Looking forward to (hopefully) the Top 101 Countdown of Xmas songs on the day after Thanksgiving.

You said it... people would stop listening until it has ended. But you'll come back, and so will the vast majority of others who leave because of Christmas music. CBS-FM might be looking to draw some new blood into the station via an all-Christmas format. I think it wouldn't hurt to try it once. I really don't. Last year, they didn't even start playing ONE Christmas song an hour until after Thanksgiving. The fact that they will be playing some Christmas music every hour THIS weekend, November 1 and 2, makes me believe that Christmas music will have a large presence on the station this year... moerso than last year.

Also, the Top 101 Countdown of Christmas songs repeated over the Christmas holiday, not over Thanksgiving weekend.

If CBS-FM ran spots on TV and put out billboards that "THIS year, WE'RE New York's Home for the Holidays," people might think that Lite isn't doing it. Or, since they heard about 101.1 first this year, they might get the listeners. I know I'm playing devil's advocate here, but there is another side to the story.

Of course, you may be very right, and CBS-FM might just mix in the Christmas music; we shall wait and see. But, I really feel that going all-Christmas this year might help them out.

How do they need to be helped out? I think they're sounding great right now. Maybe mixing in a few tracks will be good.
I just think there's too much Christmas overkill. It's worse than the election!

 

[wmgcbs]

How do they need to be helped out? I think they're sounding great right now. Maybe mixing in a few tracks will be good.
I just think there's too much Christmas overkill. It's worse than the election!

It could garner some more revenue for the station and give it a boost in that department. With PPMs, the all-Christmas format might get better numbers in New York as well. The same argument could be said for WLTW. Why does it go all-Christmas when its ratings (and billing) are already high? Because their ratings (and likely billing, although I am not completely sure) become higher during all-Christmas. I can't blame any station for wanting to try it.

Like I said, this is pure speculation. Only the folks at 101.1 know whether or not they will be doing all-Christmas. This "Ultimate Christmas Weekend" and "New York's Home for the Holidays" TOH and sweepers might be just trying to scare Lite.

 

[scooty430]

I still feel their ratings would go down. There is already a Christmas station in town, and they'd just split the Xmas audience, maybe even get less than the other guy.

As for attracting a new audience, how would that work? The new audience would not hear any oldies and get turned on. They'd disappear December 26.

Do you really want to lose a core segment of your audience for a month, assuming they'll come back? What if they find a new love? Not worth the risk.

Another reason it would be a challenge to do all Xmas is they'd have to cancel all the specialty shows: Hall of Fame, Radio Greats, 70s Night, Top 20 Countdown. An all Xmas station really needs to be 24/7. The small, but vocal, group of people who only listen to WCBS for these special features would be annoyed. Maybe some would leave and lose the listening habit.

Starting in October was in poor taste. I don't even like going to their website, because I see that stupid Santa hat.

By the way, the Top 101 Xmas Songs played on Thanksgiving AND Xmas weekend last year. The countdown sort of kicked off the Xmas music for the season.

 

[DToTheJ]

As for attracting a new audience, how would that work? The new audience would not hear any oldies and get turned on. They'd disappear December 26.

... but the new listeners that tune into CBS-FM for Xmas music and have 101.1 on their presets will...

 

[nd2023]

WCBS-FM would play Christmas oldies of course

 

[oldies76]

Another reason it would be a challenge to do all Xmas is they'd have to cancel all the specialty shows: Hall of Fame, Radio Greats, 70s Night, Top 20 Countdown. An all Xmas station really needs to be 24/7. The small, but vocal, group of people who only listen to WCBS for these special features would be annoyed. Maybe some would leave and lose the listening habit.

A concern with Christmas Holiday music is the repetition. Obviously far, far fewer Holiday titles than regular oldies.
I mean think of the many versions of Sleigh Ride out there or Rudolph. Having Christmas music 24/7 is good, but maybe only the 2 or 3 weeks leading to the 25th of December. The other weeks, November 1st thru about December 11th, should be Christmas music mixed with regular oldies, greatly increasing the frequency of Holiday music after Thanksgiving Day.

On weekends, in place of the Top 20 countdown, they could do Christmas music countdowns instead. This could be tough because, once again, the limitations of titles and artists involved.

You'd have to go non-secular mixed with secular titles to avoid overkill on repetition of common titles.

On Christmas Eve, the station should go heavier on non-secular titles, like Silent Night, Joy to the World, Oh Holy Night..etc.. mixed with the regular titles, say 25% Religious and 75% Secular for added variety.

Of course, you also have the non-traditional Christmas songs and carols, like some of the Frank Sinatra songs, or songs like Marshmellow World, We Wish You the Merriest, Christmas Memories, or Christmas all over the World by Sammy Davis Jr...etc....etc...

Just listen to a MUSAK audio stream in some stores after Thanksgiving and you'll hear a great selection of non-traditionals.

 

[wmgcbs]

I still feel their ratings would go down. There is already a Christmas station in town, and they'd just split the Xmas audience, maybe even get less than the other guy.

As for attracting a new audience, how would that work? The new audience would not hear any oldies and get turned on. They'd disappear December 26.

Do you really want to lose a core segment of your audience for a month, assuming they'll come back? What if they find a new love? Not worth the risk.

Another reason it would be a challenge to do all Xmas is they'd have to cancel all the specialty shows: Hall of Fame, Radio Greats, 70s Night, Top 20 Countdown. An all Xmas station really needs to be 24/7. The small, but vocal, group of people who only listen to WCBS for these special features would be annoyed. Maybe some would leave and lose the listening habit.

Starting in October was in poor taste. I don't even like going to their website, because I see that stupid Santa hat.

By the way, the Top 101 Xmas Songs played on Thanksgiving AND Xmas weekend last year. The countdown sort of kicked off the Xmas music for the season.

My apologies about the Top 101 Christmas songs... I believe you that it was played on Thanksgiving. I'm out of the area for Thanksgiving every year, and I only remember them running the Top 101 of the '60's, '70's, and '80's. But I wasn't around for five days, so I might have just missed the notice on the website or heard anything about it on the radio.

Another very successful classic hits outlet, Oldies 103.3 in Boston, does Christmas music annually and does extremely well during the holidays. In their case, they do not seem to lose listeners, but rather gain them. I understand that NYC is a completely different market, but I will make the argument that doing it one year should be a litmus test. If it works and gets them good ratings and revenue without impacting their post-Christmas listenership, then they should do it annually. If it doesn't work in their favor, then they should never do it again. Heck, they might not even do it this year - this is all speculation anyway.

I'll admit completely that I am biased, as I really enjoy the Christmas music format. I was brought up loving Christmas music; Christmas music in our house started on Halloween and ended on New Year's Eve. Hearing "A Holly Jolly Christmas" and "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" on CBS-FM while running errands was a true treat. They sounded great on the radio booming out of my car speakers.

I think that the November Hall of Fame schedule will tell the tale of CBS-FM's plans for Christmas music when it is posted on wcbsfm.com. They just might want to unload some Christmas CDs earlier than normal!

WCBS-FM would play Christmas oldies of course

Oldies 103.3 doesn't play only Christmas oldies when they play all Christmas music. Josh Groban, Mariah Carey, and even one of my holiday favorites, "Christmas in Dixie" by Alabama appear on Oldies' Christmas playlist.

 

[pqgeorge]

I still feel their ratings would go down. There is already a Christmas station in town, and they'd just split the Xmas audience, maybe even get less than the other guy.

As for attracting a new audience, how would that work? The new audience would not hear any oldies and get turned on. They'd disappear December 26.

Do you really want to lose a core segment of your audience for a month, assuming they'll come back? What if they find a new love? Not worth the risk.

Another reason it would be a challenge to do all Xmas is they'd have to cancel all the specialty shows: Hall of Fame, Radio Greats, 70s Night, Top 20 Countdown. An all Xmas station really needs to be 24/7. The small, but vocal, group of people who only listen to WCBS for these special features would be annoyed. Maybe some would leave and lose the listening habit.

Starting in October was in poor taste. I don't even like going to their website, because I see that stupid Santa hat.

By the way, the Top 101 Xmas Songs played on Thanksgiving AND Xmas weekend last year. The countdown sort of kicked off the Xmas music for the season.

My apologies about the Top 101 Christmas songs... I believe you that it was played on Thanksgiving. I'm out of the area for Thanksgiving every year, and I only remember them running the Top 101 of the '60's, '70's, and '80's. But I wasn't around for five days, so I might have just missed the notice on the website or heard anything about it on the radio.

Another very successful classic hits outlet, Oldies 103.3 in Boston, does Christmas music annually and does extremely well during the holidays. In their case, they do not seem to lose listeners, but rather gain them. I understand that NYC is a completely different market, but I will make the argument that doing it one year should be a litmus test. If it works and gets them good ratings and revenue without impacting their post-Christmas listenership, then they should do it annually. If it doesn't work in their favor, then they should never do it again. Heck, they might not even do it this year - this is all speculation anyway.

I'll admit completely that I am biased, as I really enjoy the Christmas music format. I was brought up loving Christmas music; Christmas music in our house started on Halloween and ended on New Year's Eve. Hearing "A Holly Jolly Christmas" and "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" on CBS-FM while running errands was a true treat. They sounded great on the radio booming out of my car speakers.

I think that the November Hall of Fame schedule will tell the tale of CBS-FM's plans for Christmas music when it is posted on wcbsfm.com. They just might want to unload some Christmas CDs earlier than normal!

WCBS-FM would play Christmas oldies of course

Oldies 103.3 doesn't play only Christmas oldies when they play all Christmas music. Josh Groban, Mariah Carey, and even one of my holiday favorites, "Christmas in Dixie" by Alabama appear on Oldies' Christmas playlist.

I guess I'm in the minority regarding WODS annual Christmas fest. The moment they switch to all-Christmas music, I always change my preset to something else. Mainly Sirius. I've got nothing against Christmas music at all. But, I find it too much of a good thing when stations go all Christmas for nearly two months out of the year. I'd rather have the Christmas music to be sprinkled lightly to maybe two to three songs an hour, tops. Otherwise, it really it's a real turn-off for me. As for 'ODS, I've found myself listening to them less and less as of late. The Christmas deluge had major effect for me, ever since they first did it a few years ago. I hope WCBS-FM would think twice about doing all-Christmas. Don't forget, it took a long time for the audience to come back to 'CBS-FM after the "Jack" crap. I'm a regular 'CBS-FM listener on-line and would hate to see them go the XMAS route.

 

[scooty430]

I still feel their ratings would go down. There is already a Christmas station in town, and they'd just split the Xmas audience, maybe even get less than the other guy.

As for attracting a new audience, how would that work? The new audience would not hear any oldies and get turned on. They'd disappear December 26.

Do you really want to lose a core segment of your audience for a month, assuming they'll come back? What if they find a new love? Not worth the risk.

Another reason it would be a challenge to do all Xmas is they'd have to cancel all the specialty shows: Hall of Fame, Radio Greats, 70s Night, Top 20 Countdown. An all Xmas station really needs to be 24/7. The small, but vocal, group of people who only listen to WCBS for these special features would be annoyed. Maybe some would leave and lose the listening habit.

Starting in October was in poor taste. I don't even like going to their website, because I see that stupid Santa hat.

By the way, the Top 101 Xmas Songs played on Thanksgiving AND Xmas weekend last year. The countdown sort of kicked off the Xmas music for the season.

My apologies about the Top 101 Christmas songs... I believe you that it was played on Thanksgiving. I'm out of the area for Thanksgiving every year, and I only remember them running the Top 101 of the '60's, '70's, and '80's. But I wasn't around for five days, so I might have just missed the notice on the website or heard anything about it on the radio.

Another very successful classic hits outlet, Oldies 103.3 in Boston, does Christmas music annually and does extremely well during the holidays. In their case, they do not seem to lose listeners, but rather gain them. I understand that NYC is a completely different market, but I will make the argument that doing it one year should be a litmus test. If it works and gets them good ratings and revenue without impacting their post-Christmas listenership, then they should do it annually. If it doesn't work in their favor, then they should never do it again. Heck, they might not even do it this year - this is all speculation anyway.

I'll admit completely that I am biased, as I really enjoy the Christmas music format. I was brought up loving Christmas music; Christmas music in our house started on Halloween and ended on New Year's Eve. Hearing "A Holly Jolly Christmas" and "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" on CBS-FM while running errands was a true treat. They sounded great on the radio booming out of my car speakers.

I think that the November Hall of Fame schedule will tell the tale of CBS-FM's plans for Christmas music when it is posted on wcbsfm.com. They just might want to unload some Christmas CDs earlier than normal!

WCBS-FM would play Christmas oldies of course

Oldies 103.3 doesn't play only Christmas oldies when they play all Christmas music. Josh Groban, Mariah Carey, and even one of my holiday favorites, "Christmas in Dixie" by Alabama appear on Oldies' Christmas playlist.

Don't be silly. You don't have to apologize for thinking they didn't do Top 101 Xmas on Thanksgiving.

I love Xmas music myself. I'm one of those nerds who make Xmas Cds and send them out. But....24/7 is a total burnout.

As for Oldies 103, I do not like the "soft rock" or modern pop Xmas music like Josh Groban, Mariah Carey, Alabama. That is just my taste, and no disrespect to you if you love that style of music. But I think some CBSFM listeners would also find those artists a little bit icky. Jhani Kaye, the PD of KRTH, the CBS Oldies outlet in LA, added some artists like that when he came on board (Mannheim Steamroller, Barry Manilow, Carpenters) and I think Xmas music is the worse for it. Kaye used to program the all-Xmas oldies station in LA, KOST, which gets huge numbers.

I don't live in Boston anymore, but grew up there, so I'm not sure about this, but I think WODS is the only Xmas outfit in town. That is a totally different scenario. In NYC, that market is already cornered. Same with LA.

Anyhow.....here in LA, even with the crappy middle-of-the-road Cliff Richard and Kenny Loggins songs mucking things up on KRTH these days, it's still fun to hear Xmas music, as you point out, in the car, at the deli, or whatever.

I would say that it's even MORE exciting if those songs come out every once in a while. It makes it more special. For KRTH, they always do it at the top of the hour, at 20 minutes past, and 40 minutes past.

And when that song is the Chipmunks, or Bing, or Elvis, or the instrumental Sleigh Ride (and not Lionel Richie), well then you REALLY feel lucky.

The KRTH slogan is "the perfect blend" of Xmas tunes and oldies. It's a dorky slogan, but accurate (except for the wimpy songs.)

So....just my two cents.

 

[wmgcbs]

Surprisingly, CBS-FM's sister classic hits station in Phoenix, KOOL-FM, is calling themselves "Your Home for the Holidays" and is playing wall-to-wall Christmas music this weekend. Likewise, WODS has been promoting all Christmas music coming soon.

 

[scooty430]

CBS does not seem to coordinate what the oldies stations do too much. Look how different WODS, WCBS, and KRTH are. I wouldn't read too much into what's happening in Phoenix and Boston in regards to New York.

 

[davideduardo]

Don't forget, it took a long time for the audience to come back to 'CBS-FM after the "Jack" crap.

In reality, the best month CBS FM after the change back to classic hits had was the first month after the change... the following months were lower, after the "thrill wore off" and TSLs went back to normal levels.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

CBS does not seem to coordinate what the oldies stations do too much. Look how different WODS, WCBS, and KRTH are. I wouldn't read too much into what's happening in Phoenix and Boston in regards to New York.

That can be said for just about any format at any company.
KIIS, WXKS and WHTZ dont have too much to do with each other either.....
Or WXRK, KROQ and WBCN....etc etc.

 

[scooty430]

Don't forget, it took a long time for the audience to come back to 'CBS-FM after the "Jack" crap.

In reality, the best month CBS FM after the change back to classic hits had was the first month after the change... the following months were lower, after the "thrill wore off" and TSLs went back to normal levels.

Not sure what they rated during the offensive JACK years, but right now they are #3.

 

[radiolives]

How can two different stations in NYC both have "Santa Song of The Day" Thats what I saw on WCBS and WLTW websites. Surprised one hasn't changed the name yet or something.

 

[wmgcbs]

How can two different stations in NYC both have "Santa Song of The Day" Thats what I saw on WCBS and WLTW websites. Surprised one hasn't changed the name yet or something.

Funny you mention that. WLTW changed it to the "Stocking Stuffer Song of the Day" on their website. Although the banner at the top still says "Santa Song of the Day," the contest page was changed to say "Stocking Stuffer Song of the Day." CBS-FM did it first, and therefore, they should be able to keep the name. Lite-fm blatantly copied the idea from 101.1, so I'm guessing that someone from 101.1 called them on it. I don't know, but I found it interesting that after a couple of weeks, the contest name was actually changed.

 

[oldies76]

Don't forget, it took a long time for the audience to come back to 'CBS-FM after the "Jack" crap.

In reality, the best month CBS FM after the change back to classic hits had was the first month after the change... the following months were lower, after the "thrill wore off" and TSLs went back to normal levels.

What was CBS-FM's ratings during and subsequently after the huge A to Z in early July?

 

[scooty430]

Don't forget, it took a long time for the audience to come back to 'CBS-FM after the "Jack" crap.

In reality, the best month CBS FM after the change back to classic hits had was the first month after the change... the following months were lower, after the "thrill wore off" and TSLs went back to normal levels.

What was CBS-FM's ratings during and subsequently after the huge A to Z in early July?

I think the #3 rating for CBS-FM was for the summer, which would cover that period. Probably an insider would have to say whether ratings went up or down during the countdown itself.

I've heard that everyone's ratings go down during July 4 and other holidays - fewer people at work, driving, etc. However, if CBS was up relative to the other guys, or even with them, then it was a good choice.

 

[davideduardo]

In reality, the best month CBS FM after the change back to classic hits had was the first month after the change... the following months were lower, after the "thrill wore off" and TSLs went back to normal levels.

What was CBS-FM's ratings during and subsequently after the huge A to Z in early July?

From 6/26 to 7/23 CBS Fm had a 4.7. This was down from a 5.1 in May and a 4.9 in June. They declined more then next month, to a 4.6, recovering to a 5.0 in september.

It looks like the A-Z was slightly negative, and definitely did no good. In 25-54, from an average of 5th place, the station fell to 7th in July... off 0.8 from the peak of 5.2 and 5th two months prior.

I would think that this kind of promotion would not be done again.

 

[davideduardo]

I think the #3 rating for CBS-FM was for the summer, which would cover that period. Probably an insider would have to say whether ratings went up or down during the countdown itself.

There is no "Summer" in PPM. Just individual months. And in the July book (which iss 6/26 to 7/23) CBS FM dropped both 12+ and 25-54.

I've heard that everyone's ratings go down during July 4 and other holidays - fewer people at work, driving, etc. However, if CBS was up relative to the other guys, or even with them, then it was a good choice.

One day may affect a week, but there were no weeklies issued for July. The full month was off, all demos, and the rank slipped several positions in 25-54. In any case, since we are looking at share, which is a constant (there are no more nor no less than 100 shares at any time) the effect of holidays is irrelevant.

The statistics show it was a bad choice.