CC Burlington drops the big one !!!!!

[argytunes]

For nhradiochild...

There are definitely radio stations (in all size markets) where one or two 'team members' assume that's it's STRICTLY THEIR TALENTS AND EFFORTS that keep their company, group or "mom & pop station" alive!

Rather than address...and possible FIX...an internal problem with a staff member or two, these "team members" go about their business with only one attidude:

I'm the only one who is working hard to keep this place from going under!

Perhaps this is the "real reason" why some radio station programming sounds like a jigsaw puzzle? The pieces were forced into place, but the final picture (aka the radio product that's on the air) doesn't make any sense at all! ???

argytunes

 

[louiemanno]

Sorry I’m late to the dance here… But I wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the subject of forming a relationship with the listeners.

It goes far beyond failure to bond with the audience. It is systemic in radio as a whole… Big Box Broadcasting is run by bean counters. bean counters like systems and formulas, things like “feelings” are too much of a wild card for a corporate sycophant to bare. So they have attempted to boil programming down to a formula and a science... but they have underestimated the audience

Take heart, the pendulum will swing back around, because at the end of the day it will make good business sense. The programming people in the trenches still remember how to connect to an audience and sooner or later they will have their chance.

Power to the people!

 

[Dudeman2000]

It goes far beyond failure to bond with the audience. It is systemic in radio as a whole… Big Box Broadcasting is run by bean counters. bean counters like systems and formulas, things like “feelings” are too much of a wild card for a corporate sycophant to bare. So they have attempted to boil programming down to a formula and a science... but they have underestimated the audience

Stations are run by SALES PEOPLE...especially with smaller companies. Usually lazy ones...just look at what is happening to the Rutland market with Pamal...air staff is just below dirt to some of these so called "managers"...

 

[louiemanno]

A salesperson’s MO is directly connected to the station management / corporate culture.

The fact remains, sales people need something to sell. A smart GM does his or her best to foster an alliance between sales and air staff. A salesman’s best friend could be a jock who has his eyes on the prize. But when you are treated like dirt, why bother. Radio management is like anything else… Treat your people with respect, involve them in decision making (or at least explain the logic behind decisions) and give everyone room to be creative. If everyone feels like the are a part of something they will naturally go out of they’re way to improve it and make it better. Unfortunately those who rise to the ranks of GM are often the autocratic top down type.

It's to bad that the VAB doesn’t hold seminars on how to be a good leader of creative folk. From the small-minded prospective of many GMs, it’s a lot easier to keep the air staff shaking in their boots and worrying about loosing their job to a more compliant counterpart.

You don’t have to burn many calories to create an environment where fun, creativity, and appropriate recognition are the rule. All of the best radio stations have had great management, which leads to solidarity between departments, a happier more creative and hardworking staff… and ultimately better sales and a better air product.

Anyone who follows the golden rule wins in the end.

 

[lighten up]

A sales persons Mo is directly connected to relationships with clients and how much money they make.

Great and talented sales people can take Dog crap and sell it.

Yes it helps to like the person you are working for but that is not the be all end all

If you are right, why would it matter what the VAB does. If you are a GM you don't need anyone to tell you how to manage any better, you are already have all the answers

 

[jackandcoke]

I just cannot stay quiet any longer! CC Burlington fired 3 bodies this week...midday Star person Jen Foxx, Midday Champ jock Mel Allen and KISS morning guy Jag. They also have a new Market Manager joining by the name of Tom Barney. He is a CC suit who was formerly at Z-97 and the WTSL-WGXL-KIXX Upper Valley cluster. Question is were these firing decisions made before or after Mr. Barney's involvement? Were they decided by the former cold-as-ice manager (can't get her out fast enough/I can't get out fast enough) Karen Marshall as her final gift to the staff? Did Corm have his heavy hand involved in this so he could protect the precious Corm and the Coach Show and it's horrible ratings? This cluster needs big changes. Change 92.1 from CHR which has no ratings to something else. I don't know what with that iffy signal...maybe an older demo format. Champ needs a new morning show.,,,Now. The current one is old and tired and gets no ratings. It costs alot of money for very little return. Don't go staellite but go with a younger, fresher appraoch. Coach should be gone and put Mr. C in PM drive solo with music and some talk segments. Keep alice at night. Move the pm chick to midday. Rock the station more. Star needs an small -----. Mornings are okay but dump the news guy. Have him take the place of Jen in middays. Keep the pm drive guy and Delilah and Tesh. Why are they cutting bodies on the only station in the group with a decent rating? The Zone? Who knows. get rid of some of the sports as they are expensive and probably don't make alot of money when all is said and done. Hannity to Don & Mike? That's awful. This cluster will be sold soon anyways so the new owners will probably do things better.

Pretty free with your consultation, but still missed the big one: flip Star to Country and kick WOKO's ass. Keep Star's AC revenue by shifting it to Champ's frequency. And keep (some of) Champ's revenue by shifting the AMD act to AM. But it all starts by putting the big stick where the big money is: Country. First rule of radio: the bigger signal beats the smaller signal every time. Hall is scared to death of that "sleeping giant." Time to put them out of their misery.

 

[NO DAG]

Pretty free with your consultation, but still missed the big one: flip Star to Country and kick WOKO's ass. Keep Star's AC revenue by shifting it to Champ's frequency. And keep (some of) Champ's revenue by shifting the AMD act to AM. But it all starts by putting the big stick where the big money is: Country. First rule of radio: the bigger signal beats the smaller signal every time. Hall is scared to death of that "sleeping giant." Time to put them out of their misery.

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Jackandcoke, I would suggest that you stop having some of those before your write out your thoughts. There is no way in hell Star would ever flip to country, why would they ? There are a bazillion country stations within it's huge signal area, let alone at least 4 in the Burlington area itself.. I'm sure all the Star advertisers will just say, OK, you went country, I'll put my bucks on Champ.. And about big sticks and smaller sticks, Champ at 6kw seems to beat out the 50kw WIZN pretty good, and smoked them before WIZN stuck on Stern.. 95 Triple X did great with just a small 3kw signal for years. Hall has enough on it's plate to worry about internally, no offense to "Mr. D.". WOKO now seems to have a bona-fide competitor at 97.5 with a killer signal into the area that may be perfect timing for a country battle. OK, is some of this a leftover April Fools Gag ? I get it..

 

[louiemanno]

Lightenup:

A sales persons Mo is directly connected to relationships with clients and how much money they make.

Self-interest is a huge factor I’ll give you that. But the relationship part can only come from building trust, with great service and a good product. But it’s results that are really the king of the roost. When an AE works to get results for a client that’s when you get the long-term contract. A good GM sets the tone and facilitates an environment where people put their heads together and formulate a plan that works and gets results. If the free flow of ideas is encouraged and the programming people are brought into the loop. You wind up with better plan. And by involving the talent you help instill a sense of pride and team spirit. Given a choice I think people would rather work that way. Certainly more would get done.

Great and talented sales people can take Dog crap and sell it.

True. But it’s better to sell gold. Besides you can only sell dog crap once… sooner or later it begins to reek.

Yes it helps to like the person you are working for but that is not the be all end all

Liking or a least respecting the people you work for is not the be all and end all… But it helps. It’s a lot easier to care about your work if you’re treated well… In the end you’ll work harder and go the extra mile when it’s required because you feel like you a part of something. But if you are working for a tyrannical scumbag -why do anything other then the minim.

If you are right, why would it matter what the VAB does. If you are a GM you don't need anyone to tell you how to manage any better, you are already have all the answers.

Well in my opinion the VAB should do whatever they can to help improve the state of radio. And even though I think you’re being ironic… Everyday and every situation provides a chance to learn something new!

Here's a free tip to GMs: A little token talent fee for good live ads or good production would probably go a long way.OK everybody

you can go ahead and laugh now.

 

[ratingsgeek]

Pretty free with your consultation, but still missed the big one: flip Star to Country and kick WOKO's ass. Keep Star's AC revenue by shifting it to Champ's frequency. And keep (some of) Champ's revenue by shifting the AMD act to AM. But it all starts by putting the big stick where the big money is: Country. First rule of radio: the bigger signal beats the smaller signal every time. Hall is scared to death of that "sleeping giant." Time to put them out of their misery.

Report to moderator Logged

Jackandcoke, I would suggest that you stop having some of those before your write out your thoughts. There is no way in hell Star would ever flip to country, why would they ? There are a bazillion country stations within it's huge signal area, let alone at least 4 in the Burlington area itself.. I'm sure all the Star advertisers will just say, OK, you went country, I'll put my bucks on Champ.. And about big sticks and smaller sticks, Champ at 6kw seems to beat out the 50kw WIZN pretty good, and smoked them before WIZN stuck on Stern.. 95 Triple X did great with just a small 3kw signal for years. Hall has enough on it's plate to worry about internally, no offense to "Mr. D.". WOKO now seems to have a bona-fide competitor at 97.5 with a killer signal into the area that may be perfect timing for a country battle. OK, is some of this a leftover April Fools Gag ? I get it..

Actually, J&C is thinking like a businessman. As its competitors have allowed WOKO to just cruise along with 15 shares--and be content to beg for scraps with their 5 shares--Hall has turned Burlington into a One Station Market for all the agencies and national buys. No doubt that many buyers figure they can buy the TV stations & WOKO and take an early lunch. Sorting out all those tag-alongs with their tiny ratings is hard work!

In dollars & cents, it means that the difference between WOKO's top-line revenues and, for conversation's sake, Star's top-line revenues, might be a couple million a year. You can do the math yourself. Just multiply 50,000 units (the average number of spots--give or take a few thousand--that average successful stations sell, annually) X the average spot rate.

CC apparently thought they could get Star up into that mid-teen share range, or bring 'OKO down a few shares--and be able to command the same rates as WOKO--by being the dominant AC in the market. Oops. Nope. Didn't work. (All of which is ironic, since Clear Channel runs some of the best Country stations in America). So Hall dodged a bullet, because somebody at CC made a stupid decision by not tapping the programming brains presumably available to them.

But the only way to shake that money loose is to tackle WOKO head-on. And with its unmatchable signal, 92.9 is the only one capable of taking them down.

So, the logic is good. Take Star's programming and put it on the next-best signal in the cluster; and move Champs' programming to the next best signal--or signals--in the cluster; and kill the one at the end of the chain (that is, get rid of the lowest-rated/lowest-billing performer). That way you don't kiss-off the revenue being generated by the better performing stations, but you free-up the big stick to go after the Real Money. That is, WOKO's billing.

 

[jackandcoke]

Thanks, Mr. Geek. Nicely put.

As far as this: "OK, is some of this a leftover April Fools Gag ? I get it.." No. And, no, you don't get it.

And this: "WOKO now seems to have a bona-fide competitor at 97.5 with a killer signal into the area that may be perfect timing for a country battle." There's some daydreaming going on there...

8700 watts at 500 feet, southeast of town, ain't a "killer signal." It's a little better than a Class A FM. That's not to say that they can't-or-won't hurt WOKO. They are certainly vulnerable. But too much of the Arbitron radio metro is outside their Grade A reach to do more than chip away at the big guy's huge lead. If they do everything right, they could snag 3 to 5 shares, and bring OKO down into the 10 to 12 range. That's if they are perfect and WOKO makes a lot of mistakes to chase their listeners away.

If they can't hear the signal, they can't listen to your radio station. No matter how good it is.

As they say, this ain't rocket surgery. Signals matter. And the one at 92.9 can do anything it wants.

 

[NO DAG]

Thanks, Mr. Geek. Nicely put.

As far as this: "OK, is some of this a leftover April Fools Gag ? I get it.." No. And, no, you don't get it.

And this: "WOKO now seems to have a bona-fide competitor at 97.5 with a killer signal into the area that may be perfect timing for a country battle." There's some daydreaming going on there...

8700 watts at 500 feet, southeast of town, ain't a "killer signal." It's a little better than a Class A FM. That's not to say that they can't-or-won't hurt WOKO. They are certainly vulnerable. But too much of the Arbitron radio metro is outside their Grade A reach to do more than chip away at the big guy's huge lead. If they do everything right, they could snag 3 to 5 shares, and bring OKO down into the 10 to 12 range. That's if they are perfect and WOKO makes a lot of mistakes to chase their listeners away.

If they can't hear the signal, they can't listen to your radio station. No matter how good it is.

As they say, this ain't rocket surgery. Signals matter. And the one at 92.9 can do anything it wants.

jackandcoke, please don;t take me all that serious, and I do respect your opinion. WEZF is not going country, and yes they do quite well and target a very desirable target demo with adults / women. And yes, WEZF is probably the best commercial radio signal in Vermont period. AC's are quite desirable.

Cruising around B-town the other day, 97.5 blasted in quite nicely, and it seems to have a nice signal going south since I was able to pick it up in Brandon. Is WOKO untouchable, I say no, it can have shares picked off gradually. For example, in Portland WPOR always seemed to be untouchable until Nassau's 99.9 The Wolf beat them in there own town. 99.9 is situated to the north in Auburn with a translator in Portland. In radio anything is possible. US 93.7 is picking up some numbers, not so sure about WLFE. All those little shares eventually add up over time. I wish 97.5 the best, and competition does not hurt anybody. The owners have some highly rated stations in New London, Connecticut. Let the country battle of Burlington begin !

 

[lighten up]

I gauge how good a signal is on hitting seek. On that basis alone, this is a very is pretty damn good, very competitive signal in the entire Burlington Metro. From Brandon Vermont to Champlain New York. The only problem might be getting into Barre/Montpelier.
Also, for the first time, a straight on competitor that will fully staff and fully market a station will take on The Big station. Jen Fox is a very creditable jock with extensive knowledge of country. 10,000 songs in a row is a great way to kick off a new station at the beginning of a new book. There pre-book stunt of Quick fm and 200 songs an hour shows they have a sense of humor and they have hired a Big Time country consultant.
At the very least this should be fun to listen and watch how OKO handles the heat. We will final find out how great a station OKO really is.
Let the battle begin

 

[Ray D. Oh]

JackandCoke and Ratings Geek....do you two know anything about radio? Do you know anything about running a business? Take Star and go country? Star bills a ton of money each year and they won't transfer it all magically to 101.3 if they switched. And guys...since you don't seem to realize this...radio is a business and you have to make money to survive. Plus...Star is the #1 station in the central vermont ratings book. The new Eagle has a signal that CAN hurt WOKO and, if they stick with it awhile...you'll see some damage start to be done. What could happen is that eagle will eat away gradually at some of WOKO shares...and I'm not saying all of it by any means but 4-6 shares...and then Star will be in an even better position alone in their format. You two are smoking something because anyone would be crazy to change Star. I do agree that Champ and Zone are in need of some heavy duty TLC though.

 

[jackandcoke]

JackandCoke and Ratings Geek....do you two know anything about radio? Do you know anything about running a business? Take Star and go country? Star bills a ton of money each year and they won't transfer it all magically to 101.3 if they switched. And guys...since you don't seem to realize this...radio is a business and you have to make money to survive. Plus...Star is the #1 station in the central vermont ratings book. The new Eagle has a signal that CAN hurt WOKO and, if they stick with it awhile...you'll see some damage start to be done. What could happen is that eagle will eat away gradually at some of WOKO shares...and I'm not saying all of it by any means but 4-6 shares...and then Star will be in an even better position alone in their format. You two are smoking something because anyone would be crazy to change Star. I do agree that Champ and Zone are in need of some heavy duty TLC though.

Yeah, I do know a little about making money. I run a very successful group of radio stations, far from Burlington. But I do know the market extremely well, thanks. One of the funny things I've noticed over the years is how those in B-town either forget--or really just don't understand--how geographically large the radio market is. It's not "Burlington." It's "Burlington-Plattsburgh." And it's not defined by those two small cities, but by the fairly large counties surrounding them. And how handicapped so many of the stations are by their relatively small signals. Champ. XXX. And, yes, now The Eagle.

Although I am now away from the market, I can still read coverage maps. And though I have no doubt that 97.5 booms into Burlington, it's those folks across the lake in Clinton County--who may be able to listen in the cars, but will have trouble hearing it inside their homes & offices--where most listening takes place. And, yes--as someone noted--not only will Eagle interfere with CHOM, but CHOM will interfere with Eagle--especially in Clinton County. I appreciate the descriptions of Eagle's programming & promotion--it does sound like they'll make a splash.

WEZF? Yes, AC is very sellable--but their revenue is ultimately limited by their position relative to WOKO--both in ratings (agency money) and in general perception (local direct money). My guess is that Star does around $2 million a year in sales, and that translates to around $1 million in cash flow--nothing to be ashamed of. But I'm also guessing that WOKO does somewhere in the $4 million range in sales, translating to around $2.5 million in cash flow. That extra $1.5 million in profit is nothing to sneeze at. That $1.5 million in "gravy" adds at least $15 million to value of the radio station (using these figures at 10X cash flow, WEZF is worth around $10 million; WOKO is worth around $25 million). But for years and years and years and years, all other broadcasters--WEZF, in particular-- have ceded that extra boatload of money to Hall.

Again, 92.9 is the only physical property capable of being heard loudly & clearly on every radio--inside & out--in the Burlington-Plattsburgh radio market. If it was my radio station, I'd roll the dice--hire a top-notch Country programming staff, spend millions promoting the hell out it, and attack WOKO in a heartbeat. That extra $15 million makes the gamble worthwhile.

 

[MassMusicMan]

And though I have no doubt that 97.5 booms into Burlington, it's those folks across the lake in Clinton County--who may be able to listen in the cars, but will have trouble hearing it inside their homes & offices--where most listening takes place.

That's what streaming is for. Most stations in B-P have the common sense to stream to a large market full of trees and mountains, except for one notable holdout. I'll give you a hint: You won't find them listed in the ratings.

 

[NO DAG]

J&C, would you practice what you are preaching, blow up your biggest and most profitable signal, in a portfolio, and actually think that all your advertisers would not resist your notion and happily reallocate the advertising dollars to another signal much less reach, (Champ) that does not even target the demo that the station (WEZF) that targets ? If that's the case, I want to work for you. Please tell us the success you had in doing something like this. You'd be risking the cash flow to go after an unknown quantity, you'd never get any of that promotional monies spent to compete against something with so much hertiage as WOKO. With me so far. The folks at WTNN have nothing, and I mean nothing to lose. There's no history, no reputation, no billings, it's all uphill and positive from here. If they budget and sell appropriately, they should be in the black within a year, achieve moderate ratings success, and the world is theirs. WTNN is only competing against itself right now for revenue and audience. Perhaps they be measuring the success with other legitimate start ups in the market.. Champ, for example, started from nothing, not an offshoot of another station or company, and they did quite well right out of the gate !

I agree that the B/P market is large, and CHOM does boom into Plattsburgh and north. And I bet your assessment of gross income and cash flow may be reasonable. Streaming works, and most people / offices / businesses have access to a stream. Do all the stations in the market even hit the offices and builidngs in Burlington quite well, I say no.

 

[jackandcoke]

J&C, would you practice what you are preaching, blow up your biggest and most profitable signal, in a portfolio, and actually think that all your advertisers would not resist your notion and happily reallocate the advertising dollars to another signal much less reach, (Champ) that does not even target the demo that the station (WEZF) that targets ? If that's the case, I want to work for you. Please tell us the success you had in doing something like this. You'd be risking the cash flow to go after an unknown quantity, you'd never get any of that promotional monies spent to compete against something with so much hertiage as WOKO. With me so far. The folks at WTNN have nothing, and I mean nothing to lose. There's no history, no reputation, no billings, it's all uphill and positive from here. If they budget and sell appropriately, they should be in the black within a year, achieve moderate ratings success, and the world is theirs. WTNN is only competing against itself right now for revenue and audience. Perhaps they be measuring the success with other legitimate start ups in the market.. Champ, for example, started from nothing, not an offshoot of another station or company, and they did quite well right out of the gate !

I agree that the B/P market is large, and CHOM does boom into Plattsburgh and north. And I bet your assessment of gross income and cash flow may be reasonable. Streaming works, and most people / offices / businesses have access to a stream. Do all the stations in the market even hit the offices and builidngs in Burlington quite well, I say no.

Yeah, I've done it. No, I won't give details--I appreciate the anonymity. In other markets, it's done all the time--especially over the past 10 years or so. And both clients & listeners usually make the shift to the new frequency with remarkable ease. Streaming is great--and listeners don't always note that they're listening to a stream instead of a broadcast signal--they just write down the call-letters, as usual. If they're listening & have a diary, they'll show up.

Gotta have money to be in this game. What do you think happens to the millions in cash flow, year after year. If you're doing it right, it piles up. If you're smart, you'll crack out the wallet to fund this kind of initiative. It's a matter of how deep one's pockets are, and how you want to spend your money.

And, yes, radio pros do love working for me. I pay way above market levels; I treat them like gold, and they never leave. The longevity--both on-air & in sales--translates to loyal audiences, solid ratings and market-leading revenue. It's one of those little secrets to success that many executives never quite understand...

 

[Mr. DUBbonet]

I had to make a comment on this one. Jack,,,you state WOKO does about $4 mil in sales and WEZF $2 mil. You say change WEZF to country and go head to head spending $1 mil on promotion. You know that a majority of the $2 mil in current WEZF revenue would go away because...in your scenario....you move that format to Champ. (not to mention the current Champ revenue would be gone which I estimate to be about $1.3 mil). So what you have left is going head to head with a country powerhouse...throwing away your format and billings....spending $1 mil in promo money...all for the privilage of competing for $4-$4.5 mil in country revenues. If you do well...you'll still be in the $2 mil billing area.

Oh yes, you are a radio God. Class dismissed.

 

[therealvoice]

Cruising around B-town the other day, 97.5 blasted in quite nicely, and it seems to have a nice signal going south since I was able to pick it up in Brandon.

They must be having signal issues as I was receiving static driving from about Huntington all the way through past Starksboro. I also don't know who did the Imaging, but I hope no accidents are caused by the shreiking banshee I think they intended to sound like an eagle.

 

[jackandcoke]

I had to make a comment on this one. Jack,,,you state WOKO does about $4 mil in sales and WEZF $2 mil. You say change WEZF to country and go head to head spending $1 mil on promotion. You know that a majority of the $2 mil in current WEZF revenue would go away because...in your scenario....you move that format to Champ. (not to mention the current Champ revenue would be gone which I estimate to be about $1.3 mil). So what you have left is going head to head with a country powerhouse...throwing away your format and billings....spending $1 mil in promo money...all for the privilage of competing for $4-$4.5 mil in country revenues. If you do well...you'll still be in the $2 mil billing area.

Oh yes, you are a radio God. Class dismissed.

No, not a radio God... or even a god. Just a real competitive SOB. The thing you've missed in the scenario is that at a certain point, Hall would throw in the towel and slap something else on OKO's frequency--or, if they're smart--sell the whole cluster before the crash and get the hell out of town. The idea isn't to share the Country money with WOKO. It's to kill WOKO.

It's not something one can do with just any signal. The signal has to be unquestionably dominant in the market. And in B-P, that signal is 92.9. (In all candor, 107.9 is its equal, but they're out of play).

Read a little radio history--ancient or recent. It happens all the time. That's your homework. But do try to catch up. So far, you've got a C-minus.