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CC plans to ax 75% of PD's nationwide!

David, check the DVSA Company.

And trust me, with all this construction. 1% is far from correct - I believe the Comcast Tower is taller then that of any LA skyscraper anyway. And our proposed ACC tower would be among the tallest in the world.
 
Bug on the rug said:
Hearing CC shelling all sales facilities, except in 5 to 6 big markets plugged in with ad agencies.

Talk about consolidation! Wtf!

Two facts to know: Ad rates have not gone up, while costs have. When you have that situation, something's gotta give.
 
TheBigA said:
robnokshus06 said:
Don't they have a $2 billion payment due on their $20 billion loan!?!?

Yup: http://www.thedeal.com/content/private-equity/clear-channel-moves-to-address-debt-load.php

Did you read the article you posted? It clearly said they delayed due dates to 2014. So the answer to the question is NO.

Really, you must be dyslexic. "It clearly said they delayed due dates to 2014" They have a $2,000,000,000 payment due in 2014!

I don't know when you would begin scraping together 2-billion dollars for a payment due in less than 2-years, but apparently Clear Channel believes the time to do so is now. Then they have to start figuring out how to hit that 12-billion-dollar payment in 2016!
 
robnokshus06 said:
Really, you must be dyslexic. "It clearly said they delayed due dates to 2014" They have a $2,000,000,000 payment due in 2014!

A dyslexic person inverts characters and spatial relationships. To me, "radio" and "raido" look exactly the same.

Dyslexics are not, however, stupid. It is, however, quite stupid to mistake dyslexia for stupidity. Since about 8% of the population has dyslexia to some degree, you've managed to offend about one out of every 12 people.

Then they have to start figuring out how to hit that 12-billion-dollar payment in 2016!

Easy. IPO or roll it over. If they manage to shed the taint of old media with the help of Pittman, they will be primed for an IPO. Otherwise, it's a re-fi.
 
RadioPhillyFan said:
David, check the DVSA Company.

And trust me, with all this construction. 1% is far from correct - I believe the Comcast Tower is taller then that of any LA skyscraper anyway. And our proposed ACC tower would be among the tallest in the world.

Office construction often indicates a decaying infrastructure where old buildings are replaced with newer ones.

LA has a fairly significant height limitation due to the earthquake faults underlying the city and very severe codes due to the fact that much of the LA Basin is a liquefaction zone (unlike places like Tokyo, for example). LA has a half-dozen "downtowns" instead, and the highest population density in the US.

The height of buildings is, in any event, the equivalent of buying a Lamborghini when a Prius would be smarter. It has nothing to do with population growth.

2010-2015, the Philly radio MSA will grow just under 1.0%, using a projection of 1010-2012 YTD figures. The remainder of the decade will push it to about 1.8% for the entire decade.

The DVSA data is based on boosterism and a very different geographic area. Irrelevant to 12+ Arbitron MSA data. Philly ain't a growth market, and the lower-than-population-rank radio billing (beaten by Miami and Atlanta, even) shows it's not considered economically as important by marketers.

"Proposed" is the equivalent of "dream" until we see the steel rising.
 
No, no and no.

Wherever you're getting your facts from, they're not right...
DVSA... Check it. I don't want to argue this.
 
DavidEduardo said:
robnokshus06 said:
Really, you must be dyslexic. "It clearly said they delayed due dates to 2014" They have a $2,000,000,000 payment due in 2014!

A dyslexic person inverts characters and spatial relationships. To me, "radio" and "raido" look exactly the same.

Dyslexics are not, however, stupid. It is, however, quite stupid to mistake dyslexia for stupidity. Since about 8% of the population has dyslexia to some degree, you've managed to offend about one out of every 12 people.

Forgive me. Not my intent to offend one in 12 people (though I think I would need a bit more reach than that afforded by this board to do that). Clearly, I should have said; "You must be stupid." Thank you for the clarification David.
 
Also, I live here, travel all around the area. It's massiv, you can go an hour outside of city lines and still be in where SEPTA seres, Philly Inquirer, Philly TV, Philly Radio and KYW apply.

They're building housing everywhere, almost nothing is for sale. Allentown, an hour north of Philly - 10.27% growth. It still listens to Philly Stations. It still applies to Philadelphia.

No offense; I understand you use the census as your projected growth, but already we're estimated at 1.2% growth. DVSA is an orginizatiom here in the DV that measures population and economic growth.

All of my bias aside, Philly is growing at quite an alarming rate.
 
RadioPhillyFan, you are to be commended for your civic pride.

But you have to get it through your head that the U.S. Census (government), Nielsen (TV) and Arbitron (radio) use different geographic boundaries to determine which area they want to cover, regardless of whether population is growing or shrinking or whatever the projections may be. The percentages are so small either way that it's not likely to make a major difference overall.

Obviously the U.S. Census is (supposed to be) all-encompassing and try to count everyone.
Neilsen + Arbitron do use Census figures; they just don't use ALL of them - they use figures for whatever area they feel covers their definition of a "Market". There are many factors that go into it - mostly having to do with signal reach and/or "area of dominant influence" and (likely the most important) what stations and advertisers are willing to PAY for certain areas to be counted and included in a market.

It doesn't mean that one service "counts people better than the rest" - all of the above use U.S. Census figures - it just means that certain services only use certain segments of a geographical area to fit their particular needs.

Suggested reading (as David E. mentioned earlier):

http://arbitron.com/radio_stations/census_list.htm (includes a couple of links)

http://arbitron.com/downloads/bluebook_sp12.pdf

You'll note that Philly is Market #8 in radio/Arbitron; Market #4 in TV/Nielsen - just different geographical areas being measured.

Really this thread belongs in either the Specialty "Coast To Coast" forum or Radio Pros "The Business Of Radio" forum...shouldn't really have been started in the L.A. forum (although understandable as likely the original poster is from the area AND wanted to get many eyeballs to the thread) and then later hijacked to a Philly conversation...so up front I apologize to the Board Moderator for continuing this line of conversation...hopefully this puts a capper on it.
 
Back to topic, before the geeky board (or is it bored!) moderator steps in!

CC management conference call today. CC yesterday consolidated half their markets, from 32 to 16! How's THAT for cost savings! Bet my Mega Millions jackpot this won't be the end of it!
 
Bug on the rug said:
According to an inside source. :'(

Sign of the continual downfall -- and quality! -- of terrestrial radio!

I'm not surprised. CC's bean counters only care about the bottom line. I worked for a manager that was axed when X managers in the mid-west were canned.
 
RadioPhillyFan said:
No, no and no.

Wherever you're getting your facts from, they're not right...
DVSA... Check it. I don't want to argue this.

Nielsen and Arbitron get their figures from "processors" of the US Census and ACS data such as Geoscape and Claritas. Such firms take the raw population data from the Census Bureau and the annual American Community Survey (done by the Census Bureau, but a poll and not a census) and combine it with other data, such as motor vehicle registrations, economic indicators, etc., to create information of value to marketers.

The Claritas and Geoscape projections were so accurate that the 2010 estimates, available in 2010, were "right on" and within even the error factor (there is no "margin of error" per se in a census) of the US Census, which did not get full release for another year and a half.

Remember, the Census is a mandate of the core document of our democracy, and was so mandated to insure equal representation in that democracy. The Census is not supposed to be either a marketing tool or a service to hucksterism or boosterism. So that is why Census data has to be processed for marketing purposes.

I'll give you an example, and an LA one, that shows some of the exceptions in the market definitions vs. urban areas and their apparent consolidation.

The LA radio market is LA county and Orange county. You would never be able to guess when you left the LA market and entered the Riverside San Bernardino market, though. The area is densely populated and without looking at signs, apparently never "ends."

But, long ago, the Inland Empire (parts of riverside and san bernardino counties) market was established, and so was the LA market... at a time when Hooper and others used "city and suburb" models for market definition. As most AM stations did not overlap, the distinction was very clear.

Eventually, Arbitron came along, and the LA market became the whole county, and later it added Orange county, too. Why was Orange county added? Because it had grown, had few and weak media outlets and most listening was to LA stations. But the final step was having the subscribers vote on consolidating the two counties. The vote passed.

The Riverside and San Bernardino counties are two of the largest in the US... each being larger than Delaware, for example. They contain 3 metros, the IE, Victorville and Palm Springs... and there are parts that are not in any of those three. One part, from Ontario to Rancho Cucamonga, and containing enough people to be a significant rated market of its own, is not in either LA or the IE ratings... because neither market's subscribers wants the area due to "dilution" of ratings. So nearly a million people are unmeasured....

And years ago, the LA and IE subscribers voted whether to combine the IE and LA in one massive market that would rival NY in population. They voted no.

But in TV, the Ventura, IE and LA markets are one... because TV coverage is different than average radio coverage due to both signal and cable coverage. The markets are defined by the media being measured.

Up till 1981, Miami and Ft. Lauderdale (Dade and Broward counties) were separate markets. The broadcasters there voted to combine the two into the current Miami MSA, two counties. The radio listening permitted the combination, broadcasters approved and it was done.

Ah, and here is another... the Puerto Rico Arbitron market (Market 14) actually contains 5 separate Census Bureau Metros... so, in the opposite direction, Arbitron markets may be larger than the Census definitions, too.

So it does not matter what other organizations consider to be the Philadelphia metro. Or the Boise metro. Or the San Juan metro. What matters is how Arbitron and its subscribers define the metro to their mutual advantage.

The Philly radio market and all others are defined by Arbitron but the population data comes from the Census, updated by ACS and processed by Claritas. Whether you agree is irrelevant, unless you buy a radio station, subscribe to Arbitron and propose changing the metro... in the meantime, you are an outsider looking in and have to recognize the way markets are defined for radio.
 
The topic was changed, Ed. It was completely irrelevant for this thread and board.
 
robnokshus06 said:
I don't know when you would begin scraping together 2-billion dollars for a payment due in less than 2-years, but apparently Clear Channel believes the time to do so is now. Then they have to start figuring out how to hit that 12-billion-dollar payment in 2016!

Bottom line is that costs keep going up, while ad rates stay the same. Until that problem is fixed, they will continue to let people go.

Imagine how much money this Rush fiasco is costing them. I'm hearing the advertising community is completely freaked about radio because of Rush. Even stations that don't carry him. That means less business, which means less money to pay people, which means more people go.

Blame this latest blast on Rush.
 
Steven Roy said:
Bug on the rug said:
According to an inside source. :'(

Sign of the continual downfall -- and quality! -- of terrestrial radio!

I'm not surprised. CC's bean counters only care about the bottom line. I worked for a manager that was axed when X managers in the mid-west were canned.

So you're saying everyone else doesn't care so much about making money? Well then it's no wonder CC is on top. Instead of complaining that CC dominates so much of the airwaves, maybe the bean counters at competing companies should care more about the bottom line too. Perhaps they ought to take responsibility for their own decline in competitiveness, eh? CC knows what to do to stay afloat as the market for terrestrial radio dries up. I don't see why I should be angry at them or call them evil just because they know how to survive in a dying industry. They didn't cause the industry to die, that's an inevitability that no one can stop.
 
SimiRadioListener26 said:
Steven Roy said:
Bug on the rug said:
According to an inside source. :'(

Sign of the continual downfall -- and quality! -- of terrestrial radio!

I'm not surprised. CC's bean counters only care about the bottom line. I worked for a manager that was axed when X managers in the mid-west were canned.

So you're saying everyone else doesn't care so much about making money? Well then it's no wonder CC is on top. Instead of complaining that CC dominates so much of the airwaves, maybe the bean counters at competing companies should care more about the bottom line too. Perhaps they ought to take responsibility for their own decline in competitiveness, eh? CC knows what to do to stay afloat as the market for terrestrial radio dries up. I don't see why I should be angry at them or call them evil just because they know how to survive in a dying industry. They didn't cause the industry to die, that's an inevitability that no one can stop.

Hello, oh Radio it's you! What, what's that you say, reports of your death have been greatly exaggerated? Well I'll pass that along...

The industry isn't totally to blame for what's happening to it. It's been attacked on all fronts by internet, television and just plain greed. But that greed by operators like Clear Channel hasn't helped it, and while CC's centralization maybe be a good thing for it's bottom line, it is contributing to the decline of the industry by mere fact that it owns the most stations and that because it's perceived as the top dog, the other companies, whether they're in debt of not, will follow the leader. Most of the owners now are not broadcasters, and as such, could care less about the industry as long as they take all the value out of it as they destroy it.
 
calguy said:
Most of the owners now are not broadcasters, and as such, could care less about the industry as long as they take all the value out of it as they destroy it.

Not true. CC is run by a broadcaster. CBS is run by a broadcaster. Cumulus is run by second generation broadcasters.
 
TheBigA said:
calguy said:
Most of the owners now are not broadcasters, and as such, could care less about the industry as long as they take all the value out of it as they destroy it.

Not true. CC is run by a broadcaster. CBS is run by a broadcaster. Cumulus is run by second generation broadcasters.

CC is "run" by a broadcaster (Bob Pittman) he has stock in the company, but I said most of the owners, Bain "owns" CC and they are not broadcasters. Besides, I didn't name any broadcasters in particular, but if you feel better giving us the info, go right ahead. My point is that lemmings follow the big boys and even if they aren't in debt like CC they will look at CC and say, hey, they cuts costs, we should too. Then we get more money. That's how the whole friggin industry hurts itself.
 
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