Chance to restore WOWO's 50KW night service

[radio_radio]

IF they had more unique programming at night, they could sell that on a national basis. Unique?? Like what WSM used to do. MOR during the day for local $$$, country at night for national $$$.

What color is the sky in your world? Unique programming at night...sold on a national basis using nighttime skywave?

let's say they get WLIB for $10 million (won't happen, but let's use it for sake of an example) Shut it down. Upgrade WOWO back to 50kw night service....let's say another $1million in fees, etc. You have $11million spent.

Here is the question to this word problem.....at $20 a spot for nighttime spots on the 50kw WOWO, assuming an 85% sell out, how old would a child born in 2011 be when the $11 million in net revenue would be made back?

Wouldn't it be better to buy WLIB from the bankruptcy court and run it as a brokered time station that runs 100% Farsi programs for the NYC cab drivers to listen to?

 

[jimbo700]

WOWO could go back to 50KW with a minimal investment. It could be done with the same 3 tower array they've had forever (the array did not change an inch when they were screwed). All it would require is a phasing adjustment (admittedly a significant adjustment).
In spite of WOWO being reclassified as a Class B, Ft Wayne (WOWO) and Portland (KEX) still remain notified to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean Nations as US Class A's on 1190kHz.
Since WOWO's power change in 2001, there have been exactly 2 stations on 1190 who obtained nighttime authorization. KPHN in Kansas City got 500 watts at night with a highly directional array, protecting FT. Wayne and Portland. The other was St Louis' KQZZ who got 600 watts at night, also highly directional protecting Ft Wayne and Portland. Neither would be a source of interference to WOWO and KEX. And since since WOWO protects Portland and Portland protects Ft Wayne, WOWO would be a non-factor for KPHN and KQQZ since both are already in their nulls. Neither KPHN nor KQZZ would be a factor for WLIB since New York is in both station's nulls. Thus, the only adjustment necessitated would be in WOWO's pattern to offer additional protection to WLIB, which is already somewhat in place.
Since Atlanta's WAFS on 1190 did not get nighttime coverage (they tried), WOWO could broadcast 50KW at night with a pattern similar to WLAC's (in theory).
As for those who question the need for WOWO's restoration of 50KW, it's not to serve rural Altoona, Pennsylvania or Tifton, Georgia... It would be to improve their signal in their city of license. With today's LED stoplights and other AM interference generators, plus AM's problems with building penetration, I say give them back their 50KW.
WLIB could keep their 30KW signal for the fishes (they shoot their entire 30KW into the Atlantic), KEX in Portland would remain unaffected (as they always have), KPHN could keep their 500 watts and KQQZ could keep their 600 watts. Nobody would suffer interference and all would be well... especially me, who has always referred to the Inter-City rapping of WOWO one of the biggest travesties in radio history.. and the FCC didn't even give WOWO a condom.

 

[fybush]

Run the line from the WOWO site in Roanoke to the WLIB site in New Jersey. (It's roughly an 88-degree bearing - almost indistinguishable from due east.) You'll find that there's not much wiggle room for WOWO to provide a deeper null toward WLIB while at the same time increasing power meaningfully over the population base of Fort Wayne. Most of the growth in Fort Wayne in recent years has been to the north/northeast (the Dupont Road area, in particular), which is more like a 20-degree bearing from Roanoke, but there's still a significant population base on the south side as well, and when you start playing around with any kind of tightening of what's now a very mild null toward WLIB, you run a very serious risk of creating phase distortion in that null...which, as noted, covers a fairly densely populated part of town where you don't want to be screwing around with a signal that now works quite well. (Listen to how badly WOWO distorts as you drive through the KEX and XEWK nulls; the XEWK null in particular runs right through Huntington, and WOWO's pretty ugly out there. You don't want it to sound like that over the airport - or out at the studio, which would fall right in that null.)

It's important to note that the difference between 9800 watts and 50 kW is not, by itself, as big a deal as it might appear on paper. It's only a 6 dB difference, and the even bigger factor at play is that there's been really no increase in the incoming noise level on 1190 - WLIB throws nothing toward WOWO and there's almost nothing coming from KC or St. Louis. Atlanta would have been much more damaging if it had ever built out night power.

If it were really worth bumping WOWO back up to 50 kW, it could probably be done - but not from Roanoke. You'd really want to be doing it from due south of Fort Wayne...say, the co-owned 1380 array at the studios on Maples Road, if they're capable of handling that much power. And it would still come at a price: because of the complications of the "ratchet rule," you'd have to make that one very, very tight 50 kW pattern, akin to the new WWJ or WXYT up in Detroit, which would probably mean extra towers. You'd end up with a smoking-hot signal up through the middle of town to Dupont Road and straight up 69 to Coldwater and Battle Creek...but you'd kiss Columbia City goodbye, and you'd be pretty questionable out in Aboite, which would fall right into the KEX null. (And even that could be fixed by throwing enough money at the problem: build a brand new six-tower array somewhere down around Decatur for night use and you could still smoke Fort Wayne with plenty of signal while placing the nulls where they wouldn't matter at all - the KEX null would fall over Huntington, which doesn't get much WOWO as it is; the XEWK null would fall over Marion, far out of the market, and the WLIB null would go out over Lima. But good luck amortizing that huge investment...)

The payoff from a WOWO-FM on 92.3 or 97.3 or 98.9 - and make no mistake, it will happen one of these days - would be much, much bigger and much, much quicker.

 

[Juan Bodley]

Scott Fybush, the mere mention of losing WOWO in Columbia City on AM...aw hell who am I kidding?
(I live in Columbia City...just off U.S. 30...I have decent reception here of a lot of AM signals.)

You speak of running 1190 on the Maples Rd array (and please note I'm not a good RF man)...I don't know that the system could take it. WKJG is only running at 5Kw daytime, and I'm not sure they'd spend the money to rearrange it all. But I think if they wanted to, they'd lose WKJG (it's automated ESPN with local sporting event coverage and a daily "sports talk" show...which I think maybe 20 people know exists.) So have it boys...am I wrong here? Douglas B. where are you with your insight?

 

[fybush]

Scott Fybush, the mere mention of losing WOWO in Columbia City on AM...aw hell who am I kidding?
(I live in Columbia City...just off U.S. 30...I have decent reception here of a lot of AM signals.)

And that's what would make it a deal-breaker...not just Columbia City in the KEX null from a hypothetical Maples Road 1190 night array, but a decent chunk of the west side, too. Might even get phasy and hard to listen to at my in-laws' condo off Covington Road. Not worth it in the end for the improvement you'd get up north.

You speak of running 1190 on the Maples Rd array (and please note I'm not a good RF man)...I don't know that the system could take it. WKJG is only running at 5Kw daytime, and I'm not sure they'd spend the money to rearrange it all. But I think if they wanted to, they'd lose WKJG (it's automated ESPN with local sporting event coverage and a daily "sports talk" show...which I think maybe 20 people know exists.) So have it boys...am I wrong here? Douglas B. where are you with your insight?

If they can make the system work with 50 kW of WOWO (and I don't know if they can), they can make it work with 50 kW of WOWO + 5 kW of WKJG. A hypothetical 50 kW of WOWO night at Maples would be a completely separate transmission system right up to the tower bases, where you'd then have a filter/combiner network at each tower.

In any event, the more I look at Maples, the less suitable it seems to be as a potential WOWO night site. It's a perfect site for 1380 - the protections at night are to Richmond and St. Louis, and from Maples there's not much to the SW or SE that you'd really need to serve after dark.

 

[borderblaster]

I grew up in the Celina, Ohio area and 1380 (then top 40 WMEE) disappeared along with CKLW at sunset.

I can see why simulcasting WOWO on Huntington's 103.1 (before the whole dial was rearranged) made sense. There's a lot of Indiana that WOWO didn't cover even with 50kw, as close in as Logansport and Kokomo.

 

[radioboymark]

While I respect everyone's opinion (and certainly enjoy Scott's analysis of the situation) and I will admit now that I have not read the entire thread, this will never happen unless someone can show FedMed that every dollar spent will return 3 - 4 in gross revenue. Back in the day, WOWO sold spots in winter for Coppertone because they could show the ad agency that people in Florida were listening. Now those vacationing folks have Pandora and iPods and are not listening to a scratchy AM from Northern Indiana while they are driving on the beach in Daytona.

 

[SonoSational18]

A 30kw AM in New York is worth way more than a 50kw in Ft. Wayne, so unless Federated wants to throw "stupid money" around it ain't gonna' happen. As Scott and others have said, it might be possible to up WOWO's nighttime power, but the additional coverage would probably not be worth the expense. What any station wants to do is cover their metro, which WOWO does fairly decently. If they did want to augment coverage, the most logical move (again as previously discussed) would be to either fill in holes with one or more translators or to simulcast on a full-power FM.

 

[jimbo700]

Scott... Always a pleasure to read your essays, posts and articles. Your analysis of the WOWO situation is correct. The best bet would be to relocate the facility to the Maples Rd facility and the cost would never allow that to happen with the current decline of the MW band, and even N/T stations are migrating to FM at a high speed. I have always held your opinions in high regard. In fact you and Peter (can't remember his last name, but he's a retired AM engineering consultant from New England or somewhere on the northeast coast-I abandoned the AM Stereo Usenet group a few years ago and lost contact) are the two ultimate authorities on AM directional arrays.
I do have a question... does WOWO have to protect Kansas City's KPHN and St Louis' KQZZ, even though WOWO has historical preference?

You and I met when Blaine Thompson brought you to Columbus (Indiana) and you toured our facility (WRZQ, WXCH, WYGB and 2 non-coms upstairs) a few years ago.
It was a pleasure meeting you and it reminds me that my calendar is about to run out.
I will order the 2012 calendar today. If anyone else is interested in a calendar with fantastic shots of historical transmitter sites: http://store.fybush.com/

All this talk of WOWO and not a word mentioned about the most directional AM station in America, KFXR in Dallas, also on 1190 kHz. I visited that site a few years ago, and taking lessons from you (Scott) I took lots of pictures and took lots of video. 12 towers (2 rows of 6) at the night facility with 5KW, and a separate daytime facility several miles away with 50kw into a 4 tower array. There's a joke that you could walk across Garland Rd/Grand Ave (Highway 78), and listen to KFXR in the street, but lose them when you set foot on either curb
All that to protect Portland and Ft Wayne?

 

[fybush]

That's quite the group of stations you've got there in Columbus, jimbo...I had a great time visiting, and hope to get back for a longer stay sometime soon!

I know just enough about AM DAs to be dangerous...but I've learned most of it from the real ultimate authorities, guys like Ron Rackley and Ben Dawson and J.T. Anderton.

As to the question about WOWO's protections: yes, any further improvements to WOWO would have to protect the groundwave signals of the now-licensed operations in KC and St. Louis. By itself, that's not a big deal, but the FCC has a policy that's been in place for a couple of decades now called the "ratchet rule," which was meant to reduce overall AM interference but which actually ends up making it very hard for a station like WOWO to make a meaningful upgrade. Any kind of move WOWO makes now would have to reduce its overall interference to other stations (primarily KEX and WLIB, I'm guessing) by 10%, and that would mean the use of a tighter directional null than would otherwise be required. That makes Maples almost impossible as a night site - you'd give up way too much of the southwest side of Fort Wayne in the KEX null, and I suspect you'd need way too many new towers as well.

If this were 1971 instead of 2011, it might well make sense for WOWO to build a brand-new night array somewhere around Decatur. Nowadays, of course, not at all!

 

[Hotseat]

I can still pick up WOWO pretty good in Alabama at night.

 

[Hoosierky]

I can still pick up WOWO pretty good in Alabama at night.

In the southeast part of the country,WOWO comes in like a local.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

Someone needs to call Jack Layton. Using the original paperwork for the WOWO array it could be retuned. Pointless however.
Problem is no one will spend money to serve Fort Wayne better on AM. The best AM signal (1190 kilocycles) in Indiana was done in in WOWO and the pattern change.
It is great to recall the most powerful station, formerly, in our state. WIBC (1070 KC now WFNI (We're Fairly Now Ignored)), serving a much bigger market always complained their night signal couldn't be heard in Carmel. I suspect income from WOWO now is better than 1070.
When I look at the large land block for 1070 I am sure someone wants to put a huge building there. It is a waste pretty much now compared to a few years ago. ESPN yawn.

There were many who wrote and complained to keep the downgrade from happening. We could also go back and ask for the Armstrong FM band back. Armstrong spent a lot of money fighting that and lost. People in hell want icewater.

Recall the good days boys. Drive down memory lane in the rainbow machine. Don't entertain the thought WOWO's 50 KW will ever happen.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Someone needs to call Jack Layton. Using the original paperwork for the WOWO array it could be retuned. Pointless however.
Problem is no one will spend money to serve Fort Wayne better on AM. The best AM signal (1190 kilocycles) in Indiana was done in in WOWO and the pattern change.
It is great to recall the most powerful station, formerly, in our state. WIBC (1070 KC now WFNI (We're Fairly Now Ignored)), serving a much bigger market always complained their night signal couldn't be heard in Carmel. I suspect income from WOWO now is better than 1070.
When I look at the large land block for 1070 I am sure someone wants to put a huge building there. It is a waste pretty much now compared to a few years ago. ESPN yawn.

There were many who wrote and complained to keep the downgrade from happening. We could also go back and ask for the Armstrong FM band back. Armstrong spent a lot of money fighting that and lost. People in hell want icewater.

Recall the good days boys. Drive down memory lane in the rainbow machine. Don't entertain the thought WOWO's 50 KW will ever happen.

I think that pretty well sums up reality on all counts Chief.

 

[Juan Bodley]

It's been mentioned (by Mr. Fybush maybe) that WOWO should be on FM.
Here's my question on that: of 92.3, 97.3, and 98.9, WHICH ONE???
I'm thinking 97.3 because 92.3 has a decent following, and 98.9 is serving the 21-35 group with the music it's spinning, even though the XM/Sirius programming of the like is uncensored. Or is there a "sleeper frequency" that I'm not seeing here? (I'm not thinking 106.7 either.)

There is this thought...101.1 FM, licensed to South Whitley, which is dark now, could FedMed take that station, get any kind of increase, and use it in this great programming shuffle? Or am I barking up a rusty tower???

 

[klutch00]

IF they had more unique programming at night, they could sell that on a national basis. Unique?? Like what WSM used to do. MOR during the day for local $$$, country at night for national $$$.

A wild idea I thought of not long ago was to do the reverse of what many full service stations were doing in the late '70s and early '80s. Do you remember how many of said stations would be MOR or AC during the day but go to talk programming at night? Well, what I was thinking was to do the talk programming during the day and put the music on at night; probably beginning at around 7or 9 PM. What type of music would be a good question. I say do traditional (classic) country and feature travelers'/truckers' information.

 

[klutch00]

However, due to the change to WOWO & WLIB, haven't other stations on AM 1190 in the USA that used to be daytime-only added night power? I'd think that the changes would have allowed that----which means that going back to 50k for WOWO would be outta the question.

Yes and no. When WOWO gave up its class A status to allow WLIB to add night power, it indeed opened the floodgates for other stations to add night service in areas where they'd previously have been required to protect WOWO's night signal. The Kansas City 1190 has upgraded, for instance, as has the St. Louis-area 1190. Even if WLIB were for some reason to give up its night signal, WOWO still can't go back to class A because of those other stations.

Don't forget, you also have WCRW Leesburg, Virginia which broadcasts at 1,300 watts at night.

But even class B stations can now run up to 50 kW, albeit without nighttime skywave protection. Even without making any changes to WLIB (which throws almost no signal toward Fort Wayne at night), it would be possible for WOWO to power up...but it would require additional towers and a new phasor. Is it worth it at this point? Evidently not, especially since there's every reason to believe that at some point, probably sooner rather than later, there will be a WOWO-FM covering the areas within the market where the AM signal is most problematic at night. (And it's not as though the AM signal is even all that problematic at 9800 watts.)

A night or two ago while driving around Laurel MD, I was getting WOWO for a short period during the early evening hours. The signal wasn't great and interference was apparent. I think the FCC made a big mistake by allowing WLIB to go to 30-kw at night. That signal barely reached New Brunswick NJ and the signal was mediocre at best! The powers-that-be should've tried to buy a signal like 620, 930, 1050, 1330 or 1380; or moved to somewhere between 1600 and 1700!

 

[schmave]

So, Inner City Broadcasting is in bankruptcy. The company which destroyed WOWO-AM's night time signal 15 years ago. It sounds like asset sales are coming - possibly in NYC - including 1190 WLIB.

Will Federated step up to the plate, buy WLIB-AM and shut it down to restore WOWO? One can dream.....

Not much I can add to the discussion other than that I'm happy to see this company finally got theirs, even if it took 15 years.

 

[fybush]

Don't forget, you also have WCRW Leesburg, Virginia which broadcasts at 1,300 watts at night.

I had indeed forgotten about that move. Yup, that throws another complication into the mix.

A night or two ago while driving around Laurel MD, I was getting WOWO for a short period during the early evening hours. The signal wasn't great and interference was apparent. I think the FCC made a big mistake by allowing WLIB to go to 30-kw at night. That signal barely reached New Brunswick NJ and the signal was mediocre at best! The powers-that-be should've tried to buy a signal like 620, 930, 1050, 1330 or 1380; or moved to somewhere between 1600 and 1700!

The problem in that case wasn't WLIB's signal, it was where you were driving. WLIB's night signal was designed to super-serve the five boroughs of New York City, working within the constraints of the protection to WOWO (and to KEX and XEWK, the remaining class A signals) and of WLIB's existing tower site in the Meadowlands. If you're on the right side of the signal, within the narrow beam blasting east from the Meadowlands, WLIB at night is just as strong as the NYC big guns and stronger than any of the other signals mentioned above, except perhaps for 1050, which was far too expensive. (Remember Disney paid $78 million for it when the market was booming!)

If you're in New Brunswick, WLIB may as well not exist, which is fine with WLIB...it's not doing much business in Middlesex County, N.J.

 

[jimbo700]

I missed the Leesburg WCRW construction permit too.
Are they operating on this CP yet?
This throws a big monkey into the mix, and will kill those few listeners WOWO still has in the southeast.
Oh well, as Chief Engineer said,
>>Recall the good days boys. Drive down memory lane in the rainbow machine. Don't entertain the thought WOWO's 50 KW will ever happen.