• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Channel 8 Bashers

A WHAM critic

While I haven't lived up there in a couple years now, I rarely watched WROC and found it none to thrilling. However...

WHAM makes my blood boil! Jeez, Alhart has been their for like 50 years. I was never fond of him either. And then WOKR had the nerve to change their call letters after that '80s band with George Michael. Though I did listen to WHAM AM on my morning commute up Chili...
 
The curse of 8: the next generation

> I'm sure it can be frustrating to watch the bottom station
> struggle for years and see the people who had been in the
> trenches for a long time mistreated. But while 8 may have
> had a solid staff under it's previous management, that
> didn't work in the ratings game. The team had talent, but
> viewers didnt' tune in. Now what. You ever thought about
> why viewers didnt' tune in. What's happening now may work,
> it may not. How about some suggestions, instead of all of
> this negativity.

Phil Dampier's made it clear that you're new to this board. Now I'm gonna call you out and say you're clearly new to my hometown, too - or at least blind to the last 30 years of history at 201 Humboldt Street.

As those of us who've lived it know, the constant thread in channel 8's history, from the day Tom Decker walked out the door, has been impatient management failing to give new talent the time that's needed to build an audience in a market that does NOT LIKE CHANGE.

(I tell this story often, but only because it's true - it is a mark of how stubborn the viewers of this market are that when I started as a reporter at R News, it took well over a year before I could get my own parents, whose TV dial long ago rusted solid on channel 10, to tune away from Gabe and Janet to watch their own son on the news.)

No disrespect intended to Don Alhart, whom I respect greatly, but one of the reasons channel 13 does well, book in and book out, is not because he's the world's greatest anchor but simply because he's always been there. The history of this market is one of respect for continuity and tradition. If you liked Don Alhart and watched Don Alhart in 1980, you still like him and watch him in 2006. (And do you know how many #3 books Don and Dick Burt posted all through the late sixties and seventies before the patience WOKR management displayed finally paid off around 1980? Talent pays off here - but it takes years.)

One can argue - and I certainly would - that impatient management at channel 10 shot itself in the foot by letting Gabe Dalmath go. Sure, it saved some money, but the numbers would seem to back me up when I say that a lot of the viewers who were married to Gabe for decades started shopping around for a new TV home once he was gone. This should have been a huge opportunity for 8, perhaps the best one since the days of Mark Wolf, but again it was squandered.

You say "viewers didn't tune in." If the history of Rochester TV, and the glacial change in audience loyalties, should tell you anything, it's that you cannot come to that conclusion after one year, or two, or even three. It's good to see WROC sticking with the same lead anchor team for more than a year or two, and I think the current team is one of the best ones the station has had in many years of anchor desk shuffles. But you need the bench, and you need the strength in the field, and when that gets sacrificed to the false gods of immediate ratings success, the viewers in this town DO notice, and respond accordingly.

With enough patience, WROC really can win in this market. At least some of us, on this board and in the industry, are rooting for it. But when management can't see beyond the next book, and keeps failing to see beyond the next book for 30 years running, the station gets precisely what it deserves, and the best we viewers can hope for is that talented folks like Rachel and Dave and Maureen and Scott and all their colleagues behind the scenes manage to land safely, eventually, somewhere (usually out of the market) where management has slightly more patience than your average two-year-old.

And one more thing - my local cable access channel has better graphics than that butt-ugly new time/temperature bug you've got there at 8. That shouldn't irk me, but it really is hideous. Just had to get that off my chest.<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 ON SALE! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by fybush on 04/17/06 08:15 PM.</FONT></P>
 
NewsLover = idiot

What part of this don't you understand? It was a freakin' tornado WARNING. That does warrant interruption of ANY AND ALL programming. I don't give a rat's hairy ass if it was the network news or re-runs of the Simpsons...a tornado WARNING does warrant a timely interruption of any programming. Period. WROC f-ed up. Stop trying to justify the station's proven and obviouis screw up. You're pathetic. Do yourself and the rest of us a favor...stop posting here. You're stupidity is really bothering me now. Damn, I hate stupid people.
 
Re: It's Management's Fault That 8 Sucks Wind

> Interestingly enough, from what I am reading...it seems
> somewhat surprising that the Fab Four of Hetsko, Kutcko,
> McGuire, and Doran are still together. Yes they are a very
> talented team, but so were some of the people who were let
> go.
>

The reason that the "Fab Four", as you call them, are still with 8 could be because all four of them have families here in Rochester, and may actually like to stay in this community. However at the rate things are going at Channel 8 under the "Axman" who knows how much longer the team of McGuire, Doran, Hetsko and Kutcko will stay together. McGuire, as I understand, just signed a new contract with 8 for less money than she was making before. That's because management told her to "take it or leave it". And being a single parent with her kids to consider, what else was she going to do? If anyone would book out of Rochester it would be Hetsko because stations are always looking for good meteorologists. Kutcko's connections to the Buffalo Bills, plus his wife's P R Job pretty much cements him to Rochester. The only person that might have to worry about his job is Doran. Not that he's a bad person, quite the contrary he seems to be a likeable individual. But with Nexstar always looking to save a buck, which is to say that the "Axman" won't come up with the idea of a single anchor? After all he's the same genius that has blessed our community with such top-notch reporters as Joylynn Winfield and Lia Lando.
 
Did you know the station just won an Edward R. Murrow Award?

Yeah,
You guys won a Murrow because your former EP Rob Jason did all the work and where is he now? He got canned by Lee and is jockin' at WHAM 1180. So much for keeping productive employees on board!
 
Re: Wrong Decker

>> As those of us who've lived it know, the constant thread in
> channel 8's history, from the day Jack Decker walked out the
> door, has been impatient management failing to give new
> talent the time that's needed to build an audience in a
> market that does NOT LIKE CHANGE.
>

It was Tom Decker who left WROC-TV. His late brother Jack was the GM at WHEC TV 10.

<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>
 
As usual, Mark's right

> >> As those of us who've lived it know, the constant thread
> in
> > channel 8's history, from the day Jack Decker walked out
> the
> > door, has been impatient management failing to give new
> > talent the time that's needed to build an audience in a
> > market that does NOT LIKE CHANGE.
> >
>
> It was Tom Decker who left WROC-TV. His late brother Jack
> was the GM at WHEC TV 10.

Right you are! It's been a few decades...

<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 ON SALE! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
 
Re: The curse of 8: the next generation

> As those of us who've lived it know, the constant thread in
> channel 8's history, from the day Jack Decker walked out the
> door, has been impatient management failing to give new
> talent the time that's needed to build an audience in a
> market that does NOT LIKE CHANGE.

This is the ABSOLUTE key to understanding Rochester TV. I've lived in this city my entire life (hell, I've lived up and down Elmwood in Brighton my entire life too). If you've been a lifelong resident, you know how much people despise big changes, on radio or television. Once someone commits to a personality, they almost never change. I've told this story before but I'll share it once again. My grandparents watched channel 8 news in the 1960s. My mom and dad also -always- watched Channel 8 news into the early 1970s. If I wanted to change the channel during the 6pm news, my arm would have been chopped off. In our house, WROC-TV news was what was watched period.

Then an anchor change occured and that was the ONLY thing that started my father, who was in charge of all things TV, roaming around to find something else. He, like my grandparents, landed on WHEC-TV and stayed there because of one man - John Hambleton who was THE weather guy for Rochester. They stayed put until he retired and then, practically overnight, my entire extended family landed at the home of Dick Burt and Don Alhart.

And that was it. Channel 8 could have had dancing bears, clowns, and free money giveaways and it would not have mattered to my family one iota. Once they bonded with the anchor team that was it. Nobody cared about the reporters - it was the anchor people that mattered. They had to know the city and be a part of the community to get accepted. They had to be there every day.

A lot of people stayed with Channel 10 because of Gabe Dalmath and Rich Funke, but I think when Hambleton left (for retirement - he left to work in Florida for a short stint, got bored, and came back I seem to recall), that helped make them the perennial #2 with a lot of people.

Channel 8, meanwhile, became a temp agency in local news. I can't even begin to think of all the various anchor teams that have been tried. They never last. If Channel 8 management won't commit to a team, why should we?

There is a psychological component to making a news team work in a city like Rochester. Unless the viewers bond with them, you are going to be out of luck. That may seem crazy to some people, but that is just the way it is. The sooner people stop fighting that notion and embrace it, the sooner a newscast will be successful. And it takes 10 years minimum for that to happen or a major change on another station. The day Don Alhart retires will be the day that once again, people in Rochester will begin sampling what is on offer elsewhere. It will be WROC's next major chance.

It's not about the latest slogan, graphics or music package, or what the anchor person looks like. It's about making the viewer feel they are a part of their life and community and that they'll be there today, tomorrow, next week, next year, and next decade.

> No disrespect intended to Don Alhart, whom I respect
> greatly, but one of the reasons channel 13 does well, book
> in and book out, is not because he's the world's greatest
> anchor but simply because he's always been there. The
> history of this market is one of respect for continuity and
> tradition. If you liked Don Alhart and watched Don Alhart in
> 1980, you still like him and watch him in 2006.

When I moved out, I took the tradition of my parents and carried it forward. I remember the first day out when I wanted to watch the 6pm news. I punched in 13 on the remote without thinking twice about it.
 
Re: Take Those Lemons And Make Lemonade!

> This is New York, everything doesn't stop because of a tornado warning.

An honest question - are you a lifelong Rochesterian? Honestly, when you say stuff like this, you seem to reveal to me you aren't. Are you kidding? The weather is the one thing that everybody talks about. After the tornado warning was issued, my mom and dad called over here to let me know (as if I didn't already with all the weather radios I have here), and my grandmother also called my parents. In fact, I'd bet if you asked Frontier, there was probably a spike in phone traffic with people calling each other about this.

> There was no damage, people weren't flocking to Wegman's to
> stack up on food and supplies, viewers weren't running to
> their storm shelter for safety.

Heh... if the storm warning came out at 8am and was for a storm at 5pm, the milk and bread aisle would have been cleared out, along with batteries and candles. When a big winter storm is predicted in this city, people will clear the shelves of these staples as if they won't be able to get out of their house in a week. A tornado warning doesn't give anyone a chance to run to the store, but I'll bet you a shiny nickel if you were in the eastern suburbs and saw the sky, you would have been out in the neighborhood chasing kids off the street.

> you guys sound. If a "tornado warning" in New York keeps you
> indoors, than that's you. WROC aired a warning like
> everyone else. You are trying to say this was so big, there
> should have been a crawl, hell why not break into CBS
> Evening News, the people of Monroe county need to know a
> tornado is about to touch down and if they dont' know well
> they are all going to die. Please, maybe you were all asleep
> during earth science. I've lived and worked in areas where
> tornados are a real threat, you call me an idiot, you are
> the ones who sound ignorant right now. What are you going
> to post next, you were afraid the twister was going to take
> your house away to a place with munchkins and yellow brick
> roads.

Because tornados are so rare around here, and people are not used to them, you bet people would be concerned. We don't get tornado warnings around here with any regularity which is why it was such a concern. If it was a winter storm warning, life around here would not have stopped precisely because we are used to them. Everyone would be at the grocery store preparing and then they'd head on home.
 
Call Letter Changes - Argh...

> WHAM makes my blood boil! Jeez, Alhart has been their for
> like 50 years. I was never fond of him either. And then WOKR
> had the nerve to change their call letters after that '80s
> band with George Michael. Though I did listen to WHAM AM on
> my morning commute up Chili...

I still think of channel 13 as WOKR and probably always will. There are -still- times when I think NBC is on channel 8 and CBS on 10, despite a network flip that occured in the 1980s.

But then I also still call Winton Place Todd-Mart Plaza and think of the eastern interchange as the Can of Worms.
 
Re: Take Those Lemons And Make Lemonade!

> WROC did break J-Mac, but they didn't follow-up. WHAM and
> WHEC wisely were the first stations to break the story about
> the other boy with autism who made a movie about his life,
> and other such related stories.
>
Nope. 8, 10, & 13 all did stories about that kid on the same day. Only 8 deserves the credit for being "first"
8 did a pkg, while 13 did a reader..and 10 did a vo/sot but it came at the 11pm show after 8 already did the package at 6.
I'm no 8 lover, just setting the record straight.
 
Re: Fab Four

> Mo's not a single mom - she's single, no kids. Scott
> Hetsko's contract is next up. Any bets he'll go?
>
My mistake. Sorry Maureen.
As for Hetsko, if he isn't looking to leave Channel 8 then he should. Not because he doesn't have the talent, but inspite of it.
 
Re: NewsLover = idiot

Looked in the mirror lately

> What part of this don't you understand? It was a freakin'
> tornado WARNING. That does warrant interruption of ANY AND
> ALL programming. I don't give a rat's hairy ass if it was
> the network news or re-runs of the Simpsons...a tornado
> WARNING does warrant a timely interruption of any
> programming. Period. WROC f-ed up. Stop trying to justify
> the station's proven and obviouis screw up. You're
> pathetic. Do yourself and the rest of us a favor...stop
> posting here. You're stupidity is really bothering me now.
> Damn, I hate stupid people.
>
 
Re: NewsLover = idiot

The more you respond to this thread, the more stupid you look. It's very clear that the rest of us know what the hell we are talking about and you don't. Your opinion is that a tornado warning isn't important. Tell that to any and all weather forecasters around the world. They will laugh in your face. Just stop posting and vanish completely. Stop justifying WROC's stupid mistake and stop justifying Nexstar's pathetic existance in this industry.
 
My take on WROC

Many years ago I was trying to get a job in WNY radio. I was working in Florida at the time and just wanted to come home to an area where I spent the first 13 years of my life.I had been talking to Jim Connors though the summer of '76. There was a strike going on that I believe affected both radio and TV. The owner was Rust Craft and the workers were not striking for more money and benifits but only to hold on to what they had. GM Tom Ryan didn't really like my work but I came up for a tryout. Since I have relatives in the area it made for a nice visit anyway. 201 Humboldt looked like a classic old building in sad need of updating for TV and radio in 1975. My schedule called for me to do local news in the morning followed by a mid day airshift where I also went into the next room and cut news and weather for WPXY. I thought this is about as low budget as it gets!On Sunday I ran a show for a guy who did an italian program and I also ran some public service. There was a little time when I got to play music and some chick came in and said she had to work and that it was a union rule. To this day I don't know if she was legit. In the middle of running the board for the Italian guy the schedule called for me to cut news and weather for WPXY. I couldn't do both so I let the FM slide. Mr Ryan called to ask how it was going and if there were any problems with the schedule and I said yes, I couldn't leave the studio while running the board for the Italian program. So he asked if it would help if they put a mic for the FM in the AM studio? I couldn't believe that question!WROC was a cellar dweller then and they still are today. There must be a reason. I was very, very interested in moving to Rochester and so blind to the problems of the station. After one weekend I decided I had it much better where I was!
 
That's a very funny story -- so typical of radio. I'm sure the GHM was completely serious when he suggested a mic for the FM in the AM. So, were you hired as a scab? Did you cross a picket line? A lot of poeple say that strike was the nail in the coffin for WROC -- which (someone correct me if its wrong) came after they fired long-time anchor Tom Decker.
 
oldschooler1 said:
A lot of poeple say that strike was the nail in the coffin for WROC -- which (someone correct me if its wrong) came after they fired long-time anchor Tom Decker.
Click to expand...
I can't remember for certain if Decker was fired, or decided to leave the station on his own. But I can attest that Channel 8 was number # 1 in the local ratings for many years due in large part to the anchor team of Tom Decker, Bob Mills and Mort Nussbaum. Decker's replacement as lead anchor was just horrible. I think he lasted less than a year.The mid 1970s was not a good time if you were employed at Channel 8. With the departure of Decker, Mills and Nussbaum, WROC also had to deal with a strike that resulted in a number of veteran reporters and off-air staff also leaving the station. This began what many of us veterans of Rochester broadcasting refer to as the “revolving door” at Channel 8. From the mid 70s until today, WROC has had more on-air staff come and go than passengers at Grand Central Station. Plus the station has been owned by short-sighted corporations only interested in the bottom-line and lacking in the ability to see ten years down the road when it came to understanding that Rochester is a conservative market, and that viewers do not like changes. This is why Channel 13 and to a lesser extent, Channel 10 has maintained their audience over the years. What the future is for Channel 8 remains uncertain. I know that I personally no longer watch 8 for local news. That’s due in large part to the fact that a number of very good reporters have recently departed the station; either on their own or were shown the front door by management. The sad thing is that Channel 8 has a number of people, both inside and outside of the business, that has been rooting for them to succeed for a number of years, including myself. But when management continues to shoot themselves in the foot by replacing veteran reporters and anchors with inexperienced personnel, then I just wash my hands of the entire situation.
 
I'm not picking sides here, but I find it curious that NewsLover hasn't responded to the posts regarding the history of the Rochester market as it applies to WROC today.also--I'm no board expert, but my observation over the last couple of years is that most of the problems people here have with WROC are related directly to their handling of personnel, not the product produced.Just my 2 cents on a topic that would have looked much more impressive in the old tree-style layout. :)
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom