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Chicago gets hurban station.

> Ahem, when's the last time you saw a hip hop star not
> catering to the stereotypical thug in an interview?

What does this have to do with reggaetón?
 
> > Trying to blame the failings of the educational system in
> > the US on the lyrics of songs is ingenuous.
> >
>
> Do you think that public schools should allow the use of
> Spanglish (or any non-standard English) in the educational
> process?

No. It is a separate language or dialect or whatever. the purpose of schools is to give manstream education that will beenfit all students in later life.

This is why I also object to the "fake" bilingual education given in the US, which is not true bilingual education in the European or Latin American style but a creation that enhances tenure and extra pay for teachers and does no good for students.

Biut failing to recognize that spanglish exists and is the main cultural identifier for something like a third of Hispanics IS ingenuous.
 
> While that's all off subject, Reggaeton is being presented
> now as a "lifestyle". Better define that lifestyle and who
> are it's representatives and what are they representing.
> Calling it something is one thing, defining it and then
> dissecting the reasons for its existance can mean the
> difference between it being legitimate or just another
> marketing term created to sell product.
>

Reggaetón is part of the lifestyle of Hispanics who are in the 18-34 group, who are generally bilingual and speak English, Spanish and use Spanglish among themselves. It is the first truly American form of Latin music as it reflects the taste and feelings of a different generation. The lifestyle is far more than the music, just as the country lifestyle is far more than pickup trucks and boots.
 
> >
> > The BS has run its course. Using a marketing term to
> further
> > a record label's sales at the expense of manipulating
> minds
> > to perceive something in that manner solely for the reason
>
> > to gain profit is everything these clowns who rap about
> "the
> > lifestyle" supposedly hate - UNTIL THEY GET RICH. It's
> > laughable and so is the excuse for the format and the
> > "lifestyle" which is precisely why it's successful and
> > that's sad.
> >
>
> The use of misspelling and even modification of grammar are
> fairly universal, and have been for a century or so. I have
> a collection of Life magazines going back to the first year
> of publication, and the use of "K" to distinguish from the
> plain old "C" existed in the early part of the 20th Century.
> "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should" is repudiated
> by grammarians but was the slogan of one of the most
> successful ad campaigns ever.
>
> I am fortunate to be a polyglot, and I see this modification
> of language and spelling in Italian, Portuguese and Spanish
> as well as in English. It certainly does not seem to harm
> the ability to communicate. Language itself is pretty
> dynamic, and absorbs the most common of these usages and of
> street slang and goes on quite well.
>
> Specifically talking about reggaetón, we are talking about
> the lifestyle of assimilated and second generation
> Hispanics... many of whom use Spanglish among themselves and
> who have created a whole cultural group with unique forms of
> expression. Those of us who can speak Spanglish know exactly
> when to use it and when not to... it is like a third
> language that we share as a common element.
>
> Trying to blame the failings of the educational system in
> the US on the lyrics of songs is ingenuous.
>
Just wondering, do these CD's have linear notes in both Spanish and English--maybe Japanese, too?
 
You see what you want. It's no surprise that many hip hop artists are starting to embrace it.

> > Ahem, when's the last time you saw a hip hop star not
> > catering to the stereotypical thug in an interview?
>
> What does this have to do with reggaetón?
>
 
> SJS,
>
> I see your point however I think in the context of deciding
> the legitimacy of a music fitting a "lifestyle", it has some
> merit seeing as though David made mention of it in replying
> to a post I made challenging the legitimacy of this term
> "lifestyle" which is now a cliche' marketing term.
>
> Just because some people live a certain way doesn't mean
> it's a good way to live. Sometimes "lifestyle" is used to
> define a justification for the way some people live their
> lives solely for the purpose to sell music, clothing and
> products. While that fine, so is seeing through it all.
>
> While it may start out pure and innocent and revealing it
> soon gets bastardized and exploited as those selling the
> term to the masses are doing so because it generates so much
> money in sales. So much for the message.
>
Anything can be corrupted and bastardized, but it can also be for good as well.

Your post, at least, focused on the music and I respect that. However,
PW was taking this in another, completely unrelated direction...
 
Unfortunately the media (all sources of it) focus on the negatives to generate interest which translates into people watching, listening and buying. While it's a freedom to do so, it's not very healthy for the mind.

> > SJS,
> >
> > I see your point however I think in the context of
> deciding
> > the legitimacy of a music fitting a "lifestyle", it has
> some
> > merit seeing as though David made mention of it in
> replying
> > to a post I made challenging the legitimacy of this term
> > "lifestyle" which is now a cliche' marketing term.
> >
> > Just because some people live a certain way doesn't mean
> > it's a good way to live. Sometimes "lifestyle" is used to
> > define a justification for the way some people live their
> > lives solely for the purpose to sell music, clothing and
> > products. While that fine, so is seeing through it all.
> >
> > While it may start out pure and innocent and revealing it
> > soon gets bastardized and exploited as those selling the
> > term to the masses are doing so because it generates so
> much
> > money in sales. So much for the message.
> >
> Anything can be corrupted and bastardized, but it can also
> be for good as well.
>
> Your post, at least, focused on the music and I respect
> that. However,
> PW was taking this in another, completely unrelated
> direction...
>
 
> You see what you want. It's no surprise that many hip hop
> artists are starting to embrace it.

No, they are starting to help produce it, or colaborating with reggaetón artists. The lyrics are appropriate for the audience that likes it, not about pimps and drugs.
>
> > > Ahem, when's the last time you saw a hip hop star not
> > > catering to the stereotypical thug in an interview?
> >
> > What does this have to do with reggaetón?
> >
>
 
So for fear of being labeled a racist or some other derogatory term we can have no AMERICAN CULTURE centered around a set of principals that allows for the existance and acceptance of other cultures while expecting our people to live within a set of standards for an AMERICAN CULTURE? Maybe some artists can implement that message in their music instead of the usual nonsense. Then maybe it would be more real. Right now it's just for the money but the marketing of the music presents it in a false light and that is disengenuous.

Hip hop lost its real reason for existance years ago. Now it's just another form of music making money for the "artist" (laughable) and the labels who pimp out the poor schmuck for their own benefit. I think this is hip hop's biggest let down and what makes intolerable for just as many people who enjoy it. But in Chicago you'd think the whole world revolves around it based on the redundancy of songs on Power, B96, Kiss and WGCI.

> > > Trying to blame the failings of the educational system
> in
> > > the US on the lyrics of songs is ingenuous.
> > >
> >
> > Do you think that public schools should allow the use of
> > Spanglish (or any non-standard English) in the educational
>
> > process?
>
> No. It is a separate language or dialect or whatever. the
> purpose of schools is to give manstream education that will
> beenfit all students in later life.
>
> This is why I also object to the "fake" bilingual education
> given in the US, which is not true bilingual education in
> the European or Latin American style but a creation that
> enhances tenure and extra pay for teachers and does no good
> for students.
>
> Biut failing to recognize that spanglish exists and is the
> main cultural identifier for something like a third of
> Hispanics IS ingenuous.
>
 
That's what I said. Embracing it. They smell money. The last part of your statement is laughable. Not about pimps or drugs? Wow, take off the blinders and look at the names of the hip hoppers "embracing" it. The lyrics of the x-over hits are about sex, drugs and pimpin'. Even the remixes.

> > You see what you want. It's no surprise that many hip hop
> > artists are starting to embrace it.
>
> No, they are starting to help produce it, or colaborating
> with reggaetón artists. The lyrics are appropriate for the
> audience that likes it, not about pimps and drugs.
> >
> > > > Ahem, when's the last time you saw a hip hop star not
> > > > catering to the stereotypical thug in an interview?
> > >
> > > What does this have to do with reggaetón?
> > >
> >
>
 
> Pretty soon everyone's going to sound like they dropped out
> of school in 8th grade, dress like they shopped at a
> salvation army and THEY'LL be considered the cool people.
>

Sidebar. A top 20 song by Chambao, in Spain, is called Pokito a Poko
where both "k" should be "c." Chambao is a modern FLAMENCO act, doing music that goes back several hundred years in its heritage. Why? They probably thought that it was an attention getter.

This is sort of like the "alternag spelling " of "fish" based on letters, combinations that sound "like" the correct letters. The story about fish being spelled as "ghoti" or "ghot" is usually said to have been introduced by playwright George Bernard Shaw, a strong advocate for spelling reform.

Or, look at http://www.ehistling.meotod.de/data/papers/group_a_pub.pdf for a bit more scholarly questioning of the logic of English spelling.
 
> That's what I said. Embracing it. They smell money. The last
> part of your statement is laughable. Not about pimps or
> drugs? Wow, take off the blinders and look at the names of
> the hip hoppers "embracing" it. The lyrics of the x-over
> hits are about sex, drugs and pimpin'. Even the remixes.

However, what is played on reggaetón stations is not about pimps and drugs.

In fact, about the only song that has ever had an alternate version is "culo" because some Anglos don't understand that the term means "back" or "butt" and not "(BLEEP)" in this context. An the Pitbull song is not evern reggaetón, it is Latin Hip Hop...

Do you understand Spanish? Street, colloquial Spanish?
 
> Unfortunately the media (all sources of it) focus on the
> negatives to generate interest which translates into people
> watching, listening and buying. While it's a freedom to do
> so, it's not very healthy for the mind.

That is what they said about Verdi's operas, too. And many of the Zarzuelas in Spain. Or the Tango in Argentina in the 20's. Or about Shakespeare when his working class dramas were performed.
 
I don't recall calling Pitbull Reggaeton. I understand and speak English, French, Farsi and understand the gist of Spanish.

> > That's what I said. Embracing it. They smell money. The
> last
> > part of your statement is laughable. Not about pimps or
> > drugs? Wow, take off the blinders and look at the names of
>
> > the hip hoppers "embracing" it. The lyrics of the x-over
> > hits are about sex, drugs and pimpin'. Even the remixes.
>
> However, what is played on reggaetón stations is not about
> pimps and drugs.
>
> In fact, about the only song that has ever had an alternate
> version is "culo" because some Anglos don't understand that
> the term means "back" or "butt" and not "(BLEEP)" in this
> context. An the Pitbull song is not evern reggaetón, it is
> Latin Hip Hop...
>
> Do you understand Spanish? Street, colloquial Spanish?
>
 
> So for fear of being labeled a racist or some other
> derogatory term we can have no AMERICAN CULTURE centered
> around a set of principals that allows for the existence and
> acceptance of other cultures while expecting our people to
> live within a set of standards for an AMERICAN CULTURE?
> Maybe some artists can implement that message in their music
> instead of the usual nonsense. Then maybe it would be more
> real. Right now it's just for the money but the marketing of
> the music presents it in a false light and that is
> disingenuous.

American (sic) culture is an amalgamation of many cultures. Among the multiple influences that are non-British are the French at the time of the Revolutionary War, the Spanish and Mexicans in the 19th Century Southwest, and many native cultures. Later, the Irish, the Italians and the Germans exerted huge influence on America (Better said, "On the USA" as America to many is North And South America...) as well as more recent Latin American and Central European influences.

The USA has no single culture. There are significant differences based on ethnicity, race, socioeconomic level, education and region. The language itself varies in cadence, inflection and vocabulary in different areas and among different strata of society. It's always been so. I think the nation will survive the assault of Hip Hop just as it survived the music of the flappers of the 20's and the crooners of the 40's and the ever-so-evil rock 'n' roll of the 50's. My goodness.
>
> Hip hop lost its real reason for existence years ago. Now
> it's just another form of music making money for the
> "artist" (laughable) and the labels who pimp out the poor
> schmuck for their own benefit. I think this is hip hop's
> biggest let down and what makes intolerable for just as many
> people who enjoy it. But in Chicago you'd think the whole
> world revolves around it based on the redundancy of songs on
> Power, B96, Kiss and WGCI.

And based on the huge ratings these stations get. Hip Hop is the CHR of today, even in Minneapolis. It sure beats Ms. Spears, the Backstreet Boys and the monotonous pop alternative stuff that is even more formulaic than you accuse Hip Hop of being.

Music has always been a means of making money... right back to the troubadours nearly a millennium ago who sang the news in exchange for a coin, a morsel of food or some other thing of value. There is nothing wrong with making money off one's talents, and you make it seem like doing so is a sell out.
 
And society accepts it but then questions why things are the way they are.

I'm just as educated and experiened as you are my friend however I don't accept excuses and reasons for things when they're presented to justify behavioral malfunctions and in hip-hop, there's much of that and that is what's starting to take hold in the Reggaeton movement, that's what will push it into the mainstream. It will have to be degrading, rude, ignorant and in your face to crossover and it will. That's the sad part of it all.

As far as the media focusing on Verdi's operas? I don't recall Verdi having a marketing machine in place so that kids who have no clue about how things really are had access to his "message". I wasn't around then but I'd bet your house and mine on it.

> > Unfortunately the media (all sources of it) focus on the
> > negatives to generate interest which translates into
> people
> > watching, listening and buying. While it's a freedom to do
>
> > so, it's not very healthy for the mind.
>
> That is what they said about Verdi's operas, too. And many
> of the Zarzuelas in Spain. Or the Tango in Argentina in the
> 20's. Or about Shakespeare when his working class dramas
> were performed.
>
 
> I don't recall calling Pitbull Reggaeton.

I did not claim you did. I simply mentioned that the only commercial reggaetón song that had even slightly questionable lyrics is "Culo" and it is not even a true reggaetón song.

> I understand and
> speak English, French, Farsi and understand the gist of
> Spanish.

I understand the gist of Romanian. But I would never be able to understand the meaning of pop culture and street slang with what little I know. I am thus assuming that you can not understand the lyrics of reggaetón songs, which explains why you accuse them of being what they are not.
 
> I'm just as educated and experiened as you are my friend
> however I don't accept excuses and reasons for things when
> they're presented to justify behavioral malfunctions and in
> hip-hop, there's much of that and that is what's starting to
> take hold in the Reggaeton movement, that's what will push
> it into the mainstream. It will have to be degrading, rude,
> ignorant and in your face to crossover and it will. That's
> the sad part of it all.

There is no evidence of reggaeton taking on these characteristics. And a hip hop artist who adds a reggaeton BEAT to a hip hop song is doing hip hop, not reggaetón. To clarify, when I speak of the génre I am speaking of the Spanish language "true" regaetón, not the reggaetón INFLUENCED hip hop songs.
>
> As far as the media focusing on Verdi's operas? I don't
> recall Verdi having a marketing machine in place so that
> kids who have no clue about how things really are had access
> to his "message". I wasn't around then but I'd bet your
> house and mine on it.

There definitely was marketing at the time, and it consisted of bills and word of mouth and criers. The fact that folks like Shakespeare filled theatres made the upper crust ever so angry, as history shows us. Sounds just like your attitude towards reggaetón, which is singularly uninformed about the artist, the culture of Puerto Rico and the immense history of rhymed improvisation set to music which existes in Puerto Rico and of which reggaetón is simply this generation's continuation of a heritage. Fortunately, it seems that all Latin America likes it!
 
Its Just Frickin words!!!!!

I guess WLIT The Lite should correct the spelling of the station name. Since it should be Light.

It's just the name of the station. What is the big deal! I am very positive you have all used spellings like: Kool/Kewl for Cool. Nite for Night.
GET OVER IT.<P ID="signature">______________
-EY-
"Good Times"</P>
 
The Reggaeton that will crossover will be ghettoized. Reggaeton cannot possibly become mainstream without the help of hip hop and while you and I know the difference, the marketing of it will show hip hop's mark in it and that is what will drive it. The Reggaeton you know will not remain, it will get lumped in with hip hop for sales sake.

> > I'm just as educated and experiened as you are my friend
> > however I don't accept excuses and reasons for things when
>
> > they're presented to justify behavioral malfunctions and
> in
> > hip-hop, there's much of that and that is what's starting
> to
> > take hold in the Reggaeton movement, that's what will push
>
> > it into the mainstream. It will have to be degrading,
> rude,
> > ignorant and in your face to crossover and it will. That's
>
> > the sad part of it all.
>
> There is no evidence of reggaeton taking on these
> characteristics. And a hip hop artist who adds a reggaeton
> BEAT to a hip hop song is doing hip hop, not reggaetón. To
> clarify, when I speak of the génre I am speaking of the
> Spanish language "true" regaetón, not the reggaetón
> INFLUENCED hip hop songs.
> >
> > As far as the media focusing on Verdi's operas? I don't
> > recall Verdi having a marketing machine in place so that
> > kids who have no clue about how things really are had
> access
> > to his "message". I wasn't around then but I'd bet your
> > house and mine on it.
>
> There definitely was marketing at the time, and it consisted
> of bills and word of mouth and criers. The fact that folks
> like Shakespeare filled theatres made the upper crust ever
> so angry, as history shows us. Sounds just like your
> attitude towards reggaetón, which is singularly uninformed
> about the artist, the culture of Puerto Rico and the immense
> history of rhymed improvisation set to music which existes
> in Puerto Rico and of which reggaetón is simply this
> generation's continuation of a heritage. Fortunately, it
> seems that all Latin America likes it!
>
 
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