... and WKNR's numbers are similar to those of WKRK. 6+ numbers mean nothing... it's just bragging rights. Media buyers can see WKNR's numbers and can use them to make buying decisions if they subscribe (or often get them from a subscribing radio station) but KNR salespeople can't use them to sell. Sports generally pulls poor to mediocre 6+ numbers but does respectably Men 25-54.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Chris Fedor, formerly of WKNR
- Thread starter Ron Lee
- Start date
SonoSational18 said:... and WKNR's numbers are similar to those of WKRK. 6+ numbers mean nothing... it's just bragging rights. Media buyers can see WKNR's numbers and can use them to make buying decisions if they subscribe (or often get them from a subscribing radio station) but KNR salespeople can't use them to sell. Sports generally pulls poor to mediocre 6+ numbers but does respectably Men 25-54.
This is absolutely not true. Media buyers cannot see WKNR's numbers because WKNR's ratings do not exist.
Non subscribing station's numbers do not get published by Arbitron.
Non subscribing stations, like WKNR, do not appear in Arbitron.
You are 100% wrong.
While their numbers aren't published by Arbitron, when you request a ranker from another Cleveland station, WKNR and other non-subscribing stations are included. (some sales people will remove those stations)
Not publishing means Abritron won't print them in the 6+ releases to all access, etc, but they are in EVERYBODY's software.
When agencies buy their ratings package from Arbitron, they can also see the non-subscribing stations. Radio stations aren't the only subscribers. .
While their numbers aren't published by Arbitron, when you request a ranker from another Cleveland station, WKNR and other non-subscribing stations are included. (some sales people will remove those stations)
Not publishing means Abritron won't print them in the 6+ releases to all access, etc, but they are in EVERYBODY's software.
When agencies buy their ratings package from Arbitron, they can also see the non-subscribing stations. Radio stations aren't the only subscribers. .
John Baylor said:You are 100% wrong.
While their numbers aren't published by Arbitron, when you request a ranker from another Cleveland station, WKNR and other non-subscribing stations are included. (some sales people will remove those stations)
Not publishing means Abritron won't print them in the 6+ releases to all access, etc, but they are in EVERYBODY's software.
When agencies buy their ratings package from Arbitron, they can also see the non-subscribing stations. Radio stations aren't the only subscribers. .
Sorry John. You are misinformed. Non subscribing stations are not anywhere in Arbitron. Why is this so hard to understand?
Non subscribing stations are " non subscribing ". They do not appear anywhere in Arbitrons reports. It's like they do not exist. Think about it for a moment. Why would Arbitron publish numbers for a station that does not buy their service? They don't. That would be like getting free gas at the pump. No ticket, no laundry.
Non subscribing sdtations are non subscribing.
If all or most Ad Agencies are focused agewise on 25-54, does that hold true when other demographic items are taken into account? In other words, if advertisers and agencies are interested in African-American women, would 25-54 be the only ones they are interested in? How about men? Do they segment for White men and women?
johnbasalla said:If all or most Ad Agencies are focused agewise on 25-54, does that hold true when other demographic items are taken into account? In other words, if advertisers and agencies are interested in African-American women, would 25-54 be the only ones they are interested in? How about men? Do they segment for White men and women?
While 25-54 has traditionally been a core demo, it's not the only demo used to serve an advertiser.
A good advertising agency will understand the demo that the client wants to reach. For example think of an assited living home being a client. It's residents are 75-90 year olds. Most likely their kids are taking care of the finances.
These kids are most likely to be 55-70 years old.
Thinking younger, first time home buyers are more likely to be in the 25-35 year age range. Thats the low end of the 25-54 cell.
Maximizer is an incredible tool with many creative applications available to those who know how to use it.
Mazimizer does allow for ethnicity. It is possible to pull up a report for a demo like Black Women 25-54.
You can also create custom demos, like Men 27-24, and custom dayparts like 1p-4p. You can isolate listeners by counties. There's all types of things Maximizer can do for a media buyer at an ad agency, and an account exec at a radio station.
Arbitron has a good website where you can learn quite a bit about their products and services.
How often do advertisers tell the agency specifically who they want to reach vs. the agency coming up with who the advertiser wants to reach based on an interview or information from the advertiser?
johnbasalla said:How often do advertisers tell the agency specifically who they want to reach vs. the agency coming up with who the advertiser wants to reach based on an interview or information from the advertiser?
I believe the advertiser knows his clientel better than the angency. The job of the advertising agency to to provide the plan to deliver the most effective reach and frequency of the clients advertising message to the desired market. The agency has to do this maximizing the advertisers budget. ( See "cost per point" )
The advertiser tells the agency who is buying his goods or services. The agency creates the plan to reach them.
Hope I can help settle the argument.
Non-subscribing stations do in fact show up in our data. Arbitron releases the information to subscribers, and omit the data in the public releases you read in trade publications. Sellers will supply rankers to agencies that may include non-subscribing stations.
There are few reasons why the data is included. As a customer to Arbitron's research, you want the most accurate data of listening patterns available in the market place, specifically where you stand next to all available competitors. It becomes a valuable sales tool for Arbitron too. If you have a non-subscribing station who lands a good book, you may get a foot in the door to a non-subscriber becoming a subscriber.
-KK
Non-subscribing stations do in fact show up in our data. Arbitron releases the information to subscribers, and omit the data in the public releases you read in trade publications. Sellers will supply rankers to agencies that may include non-subscribing stations.
There are few reasons why the data is included. As a customer to Arbitron's research, you want the most accurate data of listening patterns available in the market place, specifically where you stand next to all available competitors. It becomes a valuable sales tool for Arbitron too. If you have a non-subscribing station who lands a good book, you may get a foot in the door to a non-subscriber becoming a subscriber.
-KK
kkennedy said:Hope I can help settle the argument.
There's no argument. Non subscribing stations do not get measured by Arbitron. Non subscribing stations " ratings " do not show up anywhere in Arbitron's publications. They do not exist.
Like I said before why would Arbitron help a station that does not pay them? Show me a gas station that gives away free gas?
Re: Arbitron
It would seem to me that there is always data. It would be reasonable to assume that a subscribing station and agency garners a benefit from seeing all the data available in order to make the best strategic decisions available.
But, there really doesn't seem to be a need to debate this, because...
According to Arbitron's own website:
Fair Use Guidelines For Using Arbitron Audience Estimates In News Stories
"...In the case of radio, any use of audience estimates must be limited to those radio stations that are current subscribers to Arbitron. Any other use is strictly prohibited. For example, a non-subscribing radio station’s data can neither be used nor characterized in any way, shape or form...A subscribing station is not authorized to disclose audience estimates of non-subscribing radio stations..."
This would infer that there is data available on non-subscribing stations. However, its use is not permitted.
http://arbitron.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=65
It would seem to me that there is always data. It would be reasonable to assume that a subscribing station and agency garners a benefit from seeing all the data available in order to make the best strategic decisions available.
But, there really doesn't seem to be a need to debate this, because...
According to Arbitron's own website:
Fair Use Guidelines For Using Arbitron Audience Estimates In News Stories
"...In the case of radio, any use of audience estimates must be limited to those radio stations that are current subscribers to Arbitron. Any other use is strictly prohibited. For example, a non-subscribing radio station’s data can neither be used nor characterized in any way, shape or form...A subscribing station is not authorized to disclose audience estimates of non-subscribing radio stations..."
This would infer that there is data available on non-subscribing stations. However, its use is not permitted.
http://arbitron.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=65
Re: Arbitron
Why in the world would Arbitron publish numbers of a station that is not paying them?
Why would they let the entire market see data on a station that refuses to pay their fee? There's no logic there.
Abitron is not in the business of providing free data on stations that do not pay them. Its pretty simple.
That would appear to be true. The trouble with this assumption is the subscribing stations and agencies don't see non subscribing stations data.egcsdocb said:It would be reasonable to assume that a subscribing station and agency garners a benefit from seeing all the data available in order to make the best strategic decisions available.
Why in the world would Arbitron publish numbers of a station that is not paying them?
Why would they let the entire market see data on a station that refuses to pay their fee? There's no logic there.
Abitron is not in the business of providing free data on stations that do not pay them. Its pretty simple.
Re: Arbitron
I understand you feel strongly about your position. But Arbitron's own website is countering it.
It actually makes a lot of sense to provide a customer with as much data as possible. It also offers incentive to a non subscribing station because their competitor clearly has an advantage they don't.
Perhaps your position is simply a misunderstanding of what the data is used for?
Subscribing has far more benefits than seeing one's own numbers. If I'm selling data - I'm going to sell you the data you can use and need. If you opt not to purchase this data, fine. But I see no reason why another client/customer would be penalized just because another didn't subscribe.
Your last point might better read: Arbitron is not in the business of providing free data TO stations that do not pay them.
It's great business however to provide data ON those stations, regardless.
Either way - According to Arbitron, the data is available.
Capulet said:That would appear to be true. The trouble with this assumption is the subscribing stations and agencies don't see non subscribing stations data.egcsdocb said:It would be reasonable to assume that a subscribing station and agency garners a benefit from seeing all the data available in order to make the best strategic decisions available.
Why in the world would Arbitron publish numbers of a station that is not paying them?
Why would they let the entire market see data on a station that refuses to pay their fee? There's no logic there.
Abitron is not in the business of providing free data on stations that do not pay them. Its pretty simple.
I understand you feel strongly about your position. But Arbitron's own website is countering it.
It actually makes a lot of sense to provide a customer with as much data as possible. It also offers incentive to a non subscribing station because their competitor clearly has an advantage they don't.
Perhaps your position is simply a misunderstanding of what the data is used for?
Subscribing has far more benefits than seeing one's own numbers. If I'm selling data - I'm going to sell you the data you can use and need. If you opt not to purchase this data, fine. But I see no reason why another client/customer would be penalized just because another didn't subscribe.
Your last point might better read: Arbitron is not in the business of providing free data TO stations that do not pay them.
It's great business however to provide data ON those stations, regardless.
Either way - According to Arbitron, the data is available.
I can't believe a guy with 450 posts is so wrong. I also can't believe Baylor is right.
I know how hard that was for you to write.
Re: Arbitron
egcsdocb said:Capulet said:egcsdocb said:Either way - According to Arbitron, the data is available.
Sometimes. If a signal in a PPM market is ecrypted, Arbitron collects the data. In a diary market if a listener writes call letters of a non subscribing station Arbitron collects the data. So if a station signal is non encrypted, there's no data collected.
For non subscribing stations, their agencies do not see their data.....their competitors do not see their data..... they do not see their data. The whole premise set forth by some here that non subscribing stations data is available to the entire market is nonsense.
Thanks for a lively discussion!
Somehow my response got locked in a quote window. Sorry.
" According to Arbitron the data is available "
Sometimes. If a signal in a PPM market is ecrypted, Arbitron collects the data. In a diary market if a listener writes call letters of a non subscribing station Arbitron collects the data. So if a station signal is non encrypted, there's no data collected. No data collected means no data available.
My point in my comments is that non subscribing stations ratings are not available to the whole rest of the market as some here seem to believe.
For non subscribing stations, their agencies do not see their data.....their competitors do not see their data..... they do not see their data. The whole premise set forth by some here that non subscribing stations data is available to the entire market is nonsense.
Thanks for a lively discussion!
" According to Arbitron the data is available "
Sometimes. If a signal in a PPM market is ecrypted, Arbitron collects the data. In a diary market if a listener writes call letters of a non subscribing station Arbitron collects the data. So if a station signal is non encrypted, there's no data collected. No data collected means no data available.
My point in my comments is that non subscribing stations ratings are not available to the whole rest of the market as some here seem to believe.
For non subscribing stations, their agencies do not see their data.....their competitors do not see their data..... they do not see their data. The whole premise set forth by some here that non subscribing stations data is available to the entire market is nonsense.
Thanks for a lively discussion!
Capulet said:Somehow my response got locked in a quote window. Sorry.
" According to Arbitron the data is available "
Sometimes. If a signal in a PPM market is ecrypted, Arbitron collects the data. In a diary market if a listener writes call letters of a non subscribing station Arbitron collects the data. So if a station signal is non encrypted, there's no data collected. No data collected means no data available.
My point in my comments is that non subscribing stations ratings are not available to the whole rest of the market as some here seem to believe.
For non subscribing stations, their agencies do not see their data.....their competitors do not see their data..... they do not see their data. The whole premise set forth by some here that non subscribing stations data is available to the entire market is nonsense.
Thanks for a lively discussion!
Perhaps you could clarify your position again, since I'm unsure why you are in disagreement with Arbitron's own statements?
I didn't see where anyone suggested the data was available to the entire market. In fact, it isn't. I didn't read one comment that said otherwise.
Subscribing stations/agencies do have access to the data. Non subscribing stations/agencies don't. There are also restrictions on how the data can be distributed.
Seems pretty easy to understand.
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.