Classic Hits 80s

[firepoint525]

Personally I don't see the point in starting those kinds of threads. I'm not here to attack anyone.
But take a look at how many posts you get when actual discussion takes place, vs. how many posts when everyone agrees. We're at over 170 posts. If we weren't here to challenge you, the thread would stop at #5.

Fair enough. I start threads about music, and the corporate guys can't really challenge me on that, because as David said, it's subjective. It's here that I usually get SOME disagreement (putting it mildly) from some of the other music fans on here.

But again, I don't always know where someone is coming from if they don't initiate SOME discussion on here. I've got another thread of my own coming in a few days.

 

[TheBigA]

Still wondering where these corporate guys expect us to go when we age out of their coveted demographic.

Read this:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...s-for-donations-to-maintain.html#.U7atAPldXL9

That may be the future of a lot of small AM stations. The problem is that few people want to pay for radio. Sure they're getting checks now, but how about next year and the year after?

 

[oldies76]

You then go on to attack the stations that DON'T do what you like, saying it's boring or bad.

When there is no real variety or song selection, above and beyond, what they do already, then yes, it can be boring. When stations go out of their way to please audiences and provide them (and us) with great programming (like it used to be) then great. Good weekend programming (like WOGL) is all I'm asking. Many listeners dislike bland, same ole, same ole programming. They want fun, excitement and variety.

 

[TheBigA]

But again, I don't always know where someone is coming from if they don't initiate SOME discussion on here.

I initiate lots of threads in lots of boards on this site.

 

[davideduardo]

Read this:
That may be the future of a lot of small AM stations. The problem is that few people want to pay for radio. Sure they're getting checks now, but how about next year and the year after?

The bigger issue here is that the station is running a standards format, which appeals predominantly to folks over 70. That's an age group that is, using the word again, predominantly on Social Security and on fixed incomes. It's also a group that is constantly decreasing in size due to death. This does not sound like a sustainable business model.

Add to that the fact that the station is a suburban York County station, with nearly no usable signal in the country where Charlotte itself is located and what we have is a daytimer (it has 59 watts at night) on the fringe of a major market.

The listener support model for commercial AMs has only worked for Bob Bittner's two New England stations. It's unlikely is is a solution for bad AMs outside a market core.

 

[firepoint525]

Do you have a point to make here? I'm not being dismissive or demeaning or just mean... I don't see what you are arguing for or against.

Okay, maybe badly worded on my part. Just trying to say that Delilah was probably better suited for AC than Tom Kent. But we don't have another (even potential) Kent affiliate right now. In fairness, I should say that they dropped the whole "family friendly" bit a while back. But their sister AC station in Knoxville has continued it. I just don't understand how an AC station could drop an AC staple, particularly in a time frame where I am told that "ratings don't matter." Apparently they do, to some extent. (But even stuff that they play during a regular broadcast day would contradict a "family friendly" branding.)

I actually agree with their decision; I just never understood it.

 

[firepoint525]

The bigger issue here is that the station is running a standards format, which appeals predominantly to folks over 70. That's an age group that is, using the word again, predominantly on Social Security and on fixed incomes. It's also a group that is constantly decreasing in size due to death. This does not sound like a sustainable business model.
Add to that the fact that the station is a suburban York County station, with nearly no usable signal in the country where Charlotte itself is located and what we have is a daytimer (it has 59 watts at night) on the fringe of a major market.
The listener support model for commercial AMs has only worked for Bob Bittner's two New England stations. It's unlikely is is a solution for bad AMs outside a market core.

We lost WAMB as a station of that type last year when their owner (in his late '80s) died. His daughter took it over. It is now a hispanic station.

 

[davideduardo]

Still wondering where these corporate guys expect us to go when we age out of their coveted demographic.

If you look at 55-64, you find listening levels comparable to those of 35-44 and 45-54. What happens is called "spillage" in TV, and the idea works in radio, too: stations targeting one useful demo will often get listening in adjacent, unsalable demos. CHR's get lots of teens... also a useless demo for sales. Many formats get good 55-64 listening, despite not targeting them.

But when you get to 65+, it is a somewhat different story. Listening levels are lower, and some of that may be the lack of targeted stations. But I believe it is also in part due to changes in lifestyle by seniors... less time in the car, more time in front of the TV, etc. And this is a listening evaluation, irrespective of whether a station can make any money with 65+ core listeners.

 

[firepoint525]

I initiate lots of threads in lots of boards on this site.

Well, I meant specifically on 60s/70s/80s classic hits board. We have too many Ted McGinleys on here, who come on after a thread has jumped the shark.

 

[TheBigA]

When there is no real variety or song selection, above and beyond, what they do already, then yes, it can be boring.

That's in your opinion. There's lots of variety, as defined by the variety of musical styles in the format. People choose this format for the familiarity, and because it represents a particular era in their life. If they want variety, there are several other formats for that. But for the people who listen, they enjoy the familiarity, and they have a lot of fun with it. I've been at parties where a classic hits station is being played, and the folks there really enjoyed it, especially when one of the "war horses" comes on.

 

[davideduardo]

And as long as the suits claim that the radio ratings allegedly "prove" that OTA radio listening is still strong and growing, in direct opposition to simple observed reality, I will not believe the claims that the radio ratings are worth more than a pitcher of warm spit.

That's not true on two points.

One: we are aware that OTA radio TSL is declining significantly in the younger demos, although cume remains close to historical levels. Since sales are not based on cume but on AQH listening, this is a constant concern.

Two: radio ratings show that TSL is down. They reflect reality.

OTA radio is spending much of its time and money creating new media opportunities like iHeart Radio and Uforia and others and is facing competition from a whole new gamut of radio stations like Pandora and the similar Apple and Amazon products. There is a great realization that moving content to new media is essential as usage of OTA radio declines.

Now, please tell us something that we don't know and haven't known for a decade. Accusing radio of saying "radio listening is... growing" when that is totally untrue is not what this thread needs.

 

[davideduardo]

If I were programming one of these big-city blowtorches, I would be grateful for the non-coms because they take guys like me OUT of the equation for corporate radio.

That's not true. Non-coms take share out of a market, leaving less for the commercial stations. For example, in San Francisco, there are 69 shares going to the commercial stations, with 30 shares going to the non-coms, including #1 KQED. That's definitely "out of the equation".

 

[davideduardo]

Okay, maybe badly worded on my part. Just trying to say that Delilah was probably better suited for AC than Tom Kent. But we don't have another (even potential) Kent affiliate right now. In fairness, I should say that they dropped the whole "family friendly" bit a while back. But their sister AC station in Knoxville has continued it. I just don't understand how an AC station could drop an AC staple, particularly in a time frame where I am told that "ratings don't matter." Apparently they do, to some extent. (But even stuff that they play during a regular broadcast day would contradict a "family friendly" branding.)

I actually agree with their decision; I just never understood it.

Delilah has generally not worked in PPM, but continues to work in diary markets. There is a difference between the two methodologies in that the diary measures cume, TSL and memory, while the PPM measures only cume and TSL. Apparently, Delilah listeners thought they were listening for greater time and wrote that down in the diary when they got around to it. When the PPM arrived in markets like Nashville, the TSL was much lower and other alternatives were found.

 

[TheBigA]

For example, in San Francisco, there are 69 shares going to the commercial stations, with 30 shares going to the non-coms, including #1 KQED. That's definitely "out of the equation".

However, the non-coms provide programming that the commercial stations would not want to do. KQED does news in a way that is far more detailed and international in focus than KCBS. It's likely that the non-coms are delivering bodies that might not listen to radio at all. So this is a net gain for the medium, although not for the "industry."

I went to a seminar where a GM of a commercial station was talking about launching a new station in a market where there had been a heritage format competitor. They aimed the new station at a younger audience, by playing heavy currents not just four or five times a day, but 7-8 times a day. They discovered that they didn't take listeners away from the heritage station, but instead brought new listeners to the format, some of whom were also not regular OTA listeners. But now they were. This is an example of bringing new listeners to the platform, especially at a time when the conventional wisdom says that young people don't use OTA. They will if given a reason.

 

[davideduardo]

However, the non-coms provide programming that the commercial stations would not want to do. KQED does news in a way that is far more detailed and international in focus than KCBS. It's likely that the non-coms are delivering bodies that might not listen to radio at all. So this is a net gain for the medium, although not for the "industry."

However, when looking at markets with high non-com total shares and those with lower ones, there seems to be little difference between the PUR levels. The non-coms are simply a "better choice" for radio listeners when they are available.

 

[TheBigA]

The non-coms are simply a "better choice" for radio listeners when they are available.

This is a pretty unique market. And it doesn't help when a popular commercial classical station moves down the dial to a non-commercial frequency, and now gets a 2.9, which is higher than the new format gets on the old classical frequency. A net loss for commercial radio, and a big chunk of people who would either subscribe to satellite or listen online of a non-com wasn't available.

 

[CTListener]

I went to a seminar where a GM of a commercial station was talking about launching a new station in a market where there had been a heritage format competitor. They aimed the new station at a younger audience, by playing heavy currents not just four or five times a day, but 7-8 times a day. They discovered that they didn't take listeners away from the heritage station, but instead brought new listeners to the format, some of whom were also not regular OTA listeners. But now they were. This is an example of bringing new listeners to the platform, especially at a time when the conventional wisdom says that young people don't use OTA. They will if given a reason.

I think that may be about to happen to a certain extent in Boston, where Clear Channel has put its hit country format, The Bull, on 101.7, which had been electronic dance music, in direct competition with ultra-successful WKLB. 101.7 is a Class A and doesn't cover the market completely, but still, WKLB responded almost immediately by discontinuing its Sunday morning country oldies program, which had been running for 20 years. Now WKLB is hit country 24/7, but The Bull appears to have an even tighter rotation and fewer recurrents. Maybe they'll wind up bringing new listeners to the format as well.

 

[Avid Listener]

That's not true. Non-coms take share out of a market, leaving less for the commercial stations. For example, in San Francisco, there are 69 shares going to the commercial stations, with 30 shares going to the non-coms, including #1 KQED. That's definitely "out of the equation".

Why not just deny that there is any loss of listenership to non-coms, they way the industry denies that Pandora, iPods, and all the other alternatives for recorded music are pulling away even more listeners? The suits who work in radio management have no problem selling that bill of goods. Why not do the same regarding non-com OTA stations?

 

[davideduardo]

Why not just deny that there is any loss of listenership to non-coms, they way the industry denies that Pandora, iPods, and all the other alternatives for recorded music are pulling away even more listeners? The suits who work in radio management have no problem selling that bill of goods. Why not do the same regarding non-com OTA stations?

Non-coms were among the earliest adopters of podcasting and other new media options, so what they have done is simply transfer listeners from one platform to another.

As I have said in responses to you on multiple occasions, radio has a keen awareness of the need to move audiences to new platforms. It really does not matter where people listen, so the eventual phasing out of OTA is not necessarily a disaster. Probably the biggest impediment towards moving faster in that direction is the lack of a profitable streaming business model due to digital royalties; even major streaming radio pureplay Pandora can't really solve this issue.

 

[TheBigA]

....even major streaming radio pureplay Pandora can't really solve this issue.

Five years ago, SoundExchange was paying a lot of Pandora founder Tim Westergrin's travel expenses. He would fly around the country speaking on their behalf, promoting their performance royalty for OTA radio. Since Pandora went public, and the company is now worth billions, the music industry is waging war against Pandora. They are convinced part of that money belongs to them.