Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?

[Biondi4Mayor]

You've just lumped people (GMs, PDs) who have offered to take salary cuts to save the people on their staffs, who have cried during termination meetings because they were more torn up than the jock they were letting go, in with those (and there are those) who are heartless.

No you misunderstood. Heartless, are the people at the very top of the thousand + stations they own. Local PD's and GM's are (as you illustrated) very close to their staffs. My comment is directed as hatred towards the conglomeration of media, not the people who are underneath merely doing their job.

 

[michael hagerty]

If you could provide me with a list of tested songs recently, I may finally buy your entire side. And I don't mean examples like David's (his markets of comparable size to Phoenix, or Omaha or wherever, or makets with 17 million people), but a concrete station, city, and list. Then I can see it your way.

I've participated in 2 online ones. One (which I talked in detail about on the last thread) was 30 songs each week. ALL from the regular playlist. The other, an 800 song one, (actually a 300 song Christmas online one too, not too long after) and again ALL on the regular list. So the only thing I saw them getting out of that was number of spins, not what to spin. Regardless of the effectivenss of these (as David put down last time) this is my exposure to tests.

Please set me straight then, I'd love to see a list!!!

Biondi, I'm not in a position in the industry to see those, much less to post one online. And even if I were, I couldn't. For obvious competitive reasons, music testing lists are confidential.

There is a huge difference between online tests and the type of testing stations in medium, large and major markets do.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

There is a huge difference between online tests and the type of testing stations in medium, large and major markets do.

Well the 800+ song one I did, was for a nationally syndicated chain of stations. In terms of size at set up, it is basically what David described. I can kinda see the arguement on the 30+ weekly one.

 

[oldies76]

Nothing really reckless? I should have waited 10 minutes before posting. That's when they played the Carpenters' "Top of the World"!

What's wrong with "Top of the World"? I would not play it at drive time, but it can be played in the late evening or between lunch and 3pm......or banish it to overnights if that satifies you.

The point is, it can be played.

 

[michael hagerty]

You've just lumped people (GMs, PDs) who have offered to take salary cuts to save the people on their staffs, who have cried during termination meetings because they were more torn up than the jock they were letting go, in with those (and there are those) who are heartless.

No you misunderstood. Heartless, are the people at the very top of the thousand + stations they own. Local PD's and GM's are (as you illustrated) very close to their staffs. My comment is directed as hatred towards the conglomeration of media, not the people who are underneath merely doing their job.

I'm sorry I misunderstood. I take that back.

Now that we're on the same page, know that it's the GMs and the PDs at the local stations who are involved with the music testing, not the owners of the chains. And as you note, they have a deep, vested interest in doing everything they can to protect their jobs and those of the people who work for them.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

You've just lumped people (GMs, PDs) who have offered to take salary cuts to save the people on their staffs, who have cried during termination meetings because they were more torn up than the jock they were letting go, in with those (and there are those) who are heartless.

No you misunderstood. Heartless, are the people at the very top of the thousand + stations they own. Local PD's and GM's are (as you illustrated) very close to their staffs. My comment is directed as hatred towards the conglomeration of media, not the people who are underneath merely doing their job.

I'm sorry I misunderstood. I take that back.

Now that we're on the same page, know that it's the GMs and the PDs at the local stations who are involved with the music testing, not the owners of the chains. And as you note, they have a deep, vested interest in doing everything they can to protect their jobs and those of the people who work for them.

Protecting their jobs, meaning giving them (the HUGE execs) what they want.

This is the problem! I want their deep vested interest to be more in the music they play, and the individual listeners they meet, this all goes back to my want for more creatively based radio. Testing, is only giving the corporations what they want - nothing "different" - just keep with what you can. This is my main argument.

 

[oldies76]

You're now suggesting that a "stiff" or "lost 45" will have the same tuneout as a record that tests exceptionally well. That simply is not true. That's the point of testing...to identify and play the songs with the lowest tuneout potential.

I'm saying is that all songs have tuneout to some degree and all songs are accepted as someone's favorites. According to David, about 100 people perform in a testing session. That to me does not represent the opinions of the other hundreds of thousands and their personal favorite songs.

X's favorites are not the same as Y's and certainly not the same as Z's. Some of those favorites are being aired, but some are not.

 

[michael hagerty]

Nothing really reckless? I should have waited 10 minutes before posting. That's when they played the Carpenters' "Top of the World"!

What's wrong with "Top of the World"? I would not play it at drive time, but it can be played in the late evening or between lunch and 3pm......or banish it to overnights if that satifies you.

The point is, it can be played.

Well, we can start with the fact that you need a listener born in 1973, not a record from that year.....

Seriously, I think Karen Carpenter had a voice like an angel. But even when it was a hit, that record was polarizing.

If I were programming a Classic Hits station, I'd probably test it just to see what the reaction was. For all I know, it gets tested. And why you don't play songs that don't test anytime is something I covered as recently as ten minutes ago.

 

[michael hagerty]

There is a huge difference between online tests and the type of testing stations in medium, large and major markets do.

Well the 800+ song one I did, was for a nationally syndicated chain of stations. In terms of size at set up, it is basically what David described. I can kinda see the arguement on the 30+ weekly one.

I'm not sure I know what "a nationally syndicated chain of stations" is. Can you elaborate?

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

There is a huge difference between online tests and the type of testing stations in medium, large and major markets do.

Well the 800+ song one I did, was for a nationally syndicated chain of stations. In terms of size at set up, it is basically what David described. I can kinda see the arguement on the 30+ weekly one.

I'm not sure I know what "a nationally syndicated chain of stations" is. Can you elaborate?

Sorry, poor wording. I meant it was for a program (now here I go with the lousy wording) in the same vein as a "Delilah". Syndicated on 100+ stations, but all owned by one company.

 

[oldies76]

Btw, Mr. Hagerty, are you listening to Super Hits 106 right now? I think you should try them out, that is if you like "stiffs"....and a good mix of classics.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

^^^I should say however, though that it's not a "timed" program, rather a 24/7 network really.

 

[michael hagerty]

You've just lumped people (GMs, PDs) who have offered to take salary cuts to save the people on their staffs, who have cried during termination meetings because they were more torn up than the jock they were letting go, in with those (and there are those) who are heartless.

No you misunderstood. Heartless, are the people at the very top of the thousand + stations they own. Local PD's and GM's are (as you illustrated) very close to their staffs. My comment is directed as hatred towards the conglomeration of media, not the people who are underneath merely doing their job.

I'm sorry I misunderstood. I take that back.

Now that we're on the same page, know that it's the GMs and the PDs at the local stations who are involved with the music testing, not the owners of the chains. And as you note, they have a deep, vested interest in doing everything they can to protect their jobs and those of the people who work for them.

Protecting their jobs, meaning giving them (the HUGE execs) what they want.

This is the problem! I want their deep vested interest to be more in the music they play, and the individual listeners they meet, this all goes back to my want for more creatively based radio. Testing, is only giving the corporations what they want - nothing "different" - just keep with what you can. This is my main argument.

But what I'm saying to you is that the testing isn't even on CEOs' radar. The GM and PD would love to find that they don't have to sweat every single record....that what they play won't hurt them. It would make their jobs easier. PDs big nightmare...what happens when the bulletproof songs start to burn? What will I replace them with? For that reason, new and different (to the station) tracks get tested all the time.

But the moment you go off the reservation, the numbers drop, the revenues go with and your last assignment before turning in your own employee ID is to fire the people who worked for you...do you want to tell those people it's because you "cared about the music"? Especially when you had research from your own listeners giving you a roadmap as to how not to get to that point?

 

[michael hagerty]

You're now suggesting that a "stiff" or "lost 45" will have the same tuneout as a record that tests exceptionally well. That simply is not true. That's the point of testing...to identify and play the songs with the lowest tuneout potential.

I'm saying is that all songs have tuneout to some degree and all songs are accepted as someone's favorites. According to David, about 100 people perform in a testing session. That to me does not represent the opinions of the other hundreds of thousands and their personal favorite songs.

X's favorites are not the same as Y's and certainly not the same as Z's. Some of those favorites are being aired, but some are not.

And the math behind sample sizes has been explained to you.

Look...let me see if I can explain this simply. Though if the pizza analogy didn't do it, I don't know what will....

Let's say you're playing all stuff that tests well, except for one song an hour. You're going to play that one on the theory that it's someone's favorite.

What if that person isn't listening at that point? What if it's 100 people or 1000 people or 10,000 people's favorite song......but they're at work, at church, in the shower, listening to one of their other choices....

What if all you've done is play that song for people who aren't there...when you could have played a song that would have satisfied both them, had they been listening and the people who were listening, who may not be now that you've played a song they don't like?

 

[michael hagerty]

There is a huge difference between online tests and the type of testing stations in medium, large and major markets do.

Well the 800+ song one I did, was for a nationally syndicated chain of stations. In terms of size at set up, it is basically what David described. I can kinda see the arguement on the 30+ weekly one.

I'm not sure I know what "a nationally syndicated chain of stations" is. Can you elaborate?

Sorry, poor wording. I meant it was for a program (now here I go with the lousy wording) in the same vein as a "Delilah". Syndicated on 100+ stations, but all owned by one company.

Okay. Got it. Trouble is, that's not the same as programming a 24/7 radio station in a competitive market.

 

[michael hagerty]

Btw, Mr. Hagerty, are you listening to Super Hits 106 right now? I think you should try them out, that is if you like "stiffs"....and a good mix of classics.

I just may. But if I like them (and I probably would), all that would prove is that they can hook a guy who is 2 years outside the demo, 17 years outside the heart of the demo, with an unusual background in terms of exposure to music (my job was to listen to every record that came in for 10 years), eclectic tastes and a high tolerance for just about anything.

And that's about as useless as useless gets when trying to program a winning radio station in a competitive market.

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

There is a huge difference between online tests and the type of testing stations in medium, large and major markets do.

Well the 800+ song one I did, was for a nationally syndicated chain of stations. In terms of size at set up, it is basically what David described. I can kinda see the arguement on the 30+ weekly one.

I'm not sure I know what "a nationally syndicated chain of stations" is. Can you elaborate?

Sorry, poor wording. I meant it was for a program (now here I go with the lousy wording) in the same vein as a "Delilah". Syndicated on 100+ stations, but all owned by one company.

Okay. Got it. Trouble is, that's not the same as programming a 24/7 radio station in a competitive market.

It is when stations in San Fransisco, Chicago, Atlanta and others air the format as their daytime programming.

 

[michael hagerty]

There is a huge difference between online tests and the type of testing stations in medium, large and major markets do.

Well the 800+ song one I did, was for a nationally syndicated chain of stations. In terms of size at set up, it is basically what David described. I can kinda see the arguement on the 30+ weekly one.

I'm not sure I know what "a nationally syndicated chain of stations" is. Can you elaborate?

Sorry, poor wording. I meant it was for a program (now here I go with the lousy wording) in the same vein as a "Delilah". Syndicated on 100+ stations, but all owned by one company.

Okay. Got it. Trouble is, that's not the same as programming a 24/7 radio station in a competitive market.

It is when stations in San Fransisco, Chicago, Atlanta and others air the format as their daytime programming.

Okay. Are you at liberty to say which stations or should I just go ahead and blurt out "True Oldies"?

 

[oldies76]

Let's say you're playing all stuff that tests well, except for one song an hour. You're going to play that one on the theory that it's someone's favorite.

What if that person isn't listening at that point? What if it's 100 people or 1000 people or 10,000 people's favorite song......but they're at work, at church, in the shower, listening to one of their other choices....

What if all you've done is play that song for people who aren't there...when you could have played a song that would have satisfied both them, had they been listening and the people who were listening, who may not be now that you've played a song they don't like?

But how do you know that they dislike that song?? What proof is there, if they never took a music test? And maybe their personal favs will not be listed on a test. There's no actual proof to determine people's personal choices. That can't be done Mr. Hagerty. Everyone has personal, growing-up favorites, whether it's from 1967 or 1977. We all do.

And not every person will be at church or in the shower or at the store. Some will hear it, maybe 25% of them. But that thoery applies to any song that's played, not just the "stiffs". It applies to "Brown Eyed Girl", it applies to "Jack and Diane", it applies to "Top of the World" and it applies to "Cherry Hill Park".

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

Okay. Are you at liberty to say which stations or should I just go ahead and blurt out "True Oldies"?

If you blurt, I'll listen. True Oldies has been dropped from all those cities. "Too Old", OK, but they only tested their usual playlist. They didn't skew in a new direction, or add different cuts. It too, got stale. Testing there must be worth something, it has to appeal to big cities, small cities, all across the nation, so I think it would be even more crucial than your 100 person room full of people for one city.