Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?

[carolinaradio]

Right. Kent plays many titles that have "aged out" or are too soft for the DRC playlist in the station's current incarnation. ... Oops, well, whaddaya know! They played "No Time" this evening at 6:01, during Floyd Wright's shift, so the Guess Who is still on the playlist.

I'd think Kent's playlist is programmed to blend in with what the majority of his affiliates are targeting. That's just my thought.

Their recently played widget is a pain to navigate, but I noticed early 70s tracks such as "Mama Told Me (Not To Come)", "Ain't No Sunshine", "Everybody Plays The Fool", "Mother & Child Reunion", "Do It Again", "My Sweet Lord", "Ball Of Confusion", "Piano Man", "Time In A Bottle", "No Time", "Make Me Smile", etc. played during the afternoon hours, for what it's worth...as well as a handful of 60s, so it's interesting they'd ignore earlier EJ or Stones. The core definitely is mid-late 70s, with a generous helping of disco. Interestingly, for DRC to not play a ton of early 70s tracks, their 80s tracks are still pretty conservative and somewhat limited.

Another classic hits station that is somewhat ahead of the curve is WOCL in Orlando. They've been playing Madonna, Bon Jovi, Prince, etc. for years. I haven't listened to them lately, but seemed to be sort of all over the place, but they pulled it off. I think stations like WDRC and WOCL are a good example of where the format may be in 5 years.

 

[CTListener]

Right. Kent plays many titles that have "aged out" or are too soft for the DRC playlist in the station's current incarnation. ... Oops, well, whaddaya know! They played "No Time" this evening at 6:01, during Floyd Wright's shift, so the Guess Who is still on the playlist.

I'd think Kent's playlist is programmed to blend in with what the majority of his affiliates are targeting. That's just my thought.

Their recently played widget is a pain to navigate, but I noticed early 70s tracks such as "Mama Told Me (Not To Come)", "Ain't No Sunshine", "Everybody Plays The Fool", "Mother & Child Reunion", "Do It Again", "My Sweet Lord", "Ball Of Confusion", "Piano Man", "Time In A Bottle", "No Time", "Make Me Smile", etc. played during the afternoon hours, for what it's worth...as well as a handful of 60s, so it's interesting they'd ignore earlier EJ or Stones. The core definitely is mid-late 70s, with a generous helping of disco. Interestingly, for DRC to not play a ton of early 70s tracks, their 80s tracks are still pretty conservative and somewhat limited.

Another classic hits station that is somewhat ahead of the curve is WOCL in Orlando. They've been playing Madonna, Bon Jovi, Prince, etc. for years. I haven't listened to them lately, but seemed to be sort of all over the place, but they pulled it off. I think stations like WDRC and WOCL are a good example of where the format may be in 5 years.

That's funny, because DRC actually tried to switch to a '70s and '80s format back in 2005. It lasted less than a year, then all the old stuff, including '50s titles, was brought back for a brief period in which the station was bragging of being "your iPod on the radio," with plenty of mid-charters and assorted oddities. The playlist quickly tightened, but they held on to Gene Pitney -- a Connecticut native -- right up to around 2010, when the sound of the station really began to change. I miss the previous incarnations, but I must admit that, at least during the times I usually listen -- mornings and middays -- DRC presents a focused, mostly uptempo music mix. The only real surprises are that titles like "Half-Breed" and "We Built This City" apparently test well enough up this way to get airplay; I've always though those songs were in "Seasons in the Sun"/"Disco Duck" territory -- play them and watch the listeners leave.

 

[semoochie]

Sometime within the last week, the local Classic Hits station suddenly dropped from about five 60s songs per hour to usually one or less. They're still playing back to 1964 but I suspect this to be a precursor to a full blowout, later this year. They must have heard me.

 

[firepoint525]

Sometime within the last week, the local Classic Hits station suddenly dropped from about five 60s songs per hour to usually one or less. They're still playing back to 1964 but I suspect this to be a precursor to a full blowout, later this year. They must have heard me.

Trying to make this a self-fulfilling prophecy, are we? :

 

[firepoint525]

Right. Kent plays many titles that have "aged out" or are too soft for the DRC playlist in the station's current incarnation. ... Oops, well, whaddaya know! They played "No Time" this evening at 6:01, during Floyd Wright's shift, so the Guess Who is still on the playlist.

I'd think Kent's playlist is programmed to blend in with what the majority of his affiliates are targeting. That's just my thought.

Mix 92.9 here in Nashville actually DROPPED "Duh-lilah" and replaced her with Tom Kent! 8) Well, Kent is only heard on the weekends there, but he is still an improvement over "Duh-lilah."

There were LOTS of complaints on their Facebook page about that, but their (female) PD answered by saying that "Duh-lilah" just wasn't getting them the ratings. Their ratings (at least in the evenings) had fallen as a result of carrying "Duh-lilah."

 

[carolinaradio]

I think some of the neglect of early 70s tunes might be because they SOUND like they could be from the 60s, especially some of the one-hit wonders.

I was just thinking of some early 70s songs I never hear anymore - Hamilton, Joe Frank & Reynolds, Nilsson, Three Degrees, Seals & Crofts, Gallery, Stampeders, Stylistics (I used to hear "Betcha By Golly, Wow" and "You Are Everything" a lot), O'Jays, Spinners, etc. All of the early 70s soul I ever hear anymore is "Midnight Train To Georgia", "Let's Stay Together", or "Lean On Me"/"Ain't No Sunshine." I would guess this music is more "dated" than early 70s acts (some had success continuing in to the rest of the decade, some just had one hit) like Steely Dan, Three Dog Night, America, Eagles, Elton John, Guess Who, Stealers Wheel, Santana, Edgar Winter, Argent, Rod Stewart, etc. Rock material seems to hold up better and have a longer shelf life than any other genre, so I'd expect the latter set of artists I mentioned to continue to get attention on the format (as far as early 70s goes) longer than the others. Do many stations still play "Green-Eyed Lady?" I LOVE the sound of that song. It could go as late 60s or early 70s.

I can't believe any 60s music is still on the classic hits format, to be honest. I guess there are a lot of those songs who test well with listeners who don't remember them when they were new. The 60s are certainly doing better than the 50s, I don't remember anything pre-1964 on oldies/classic hits stations in 2003.

 

[CTListener]

I was just thinking of some early 70s songs I never hear anymore - Hamilton, Joe Frank & Reynolds, Nilsson, Three Degrees, Seals & Crofts, Gallery, Stampeders, Stylistics (I used to hear "Betcha By Golly, Wow" and "You Are Everything" a lot), O'Jays, Spinners, etc.

Yeah, "Sweet City Woman," "Nice to Be With You" and "When Will I See You Again" were played often on DRC, but no more, at least not when I've been listening. Both HJF&R hits still get played, though, as do Nilsson's "Without You" and "Coconut," Seals & Crofts' "Summer Breeze" and "Get Closer," the Spinners' "I'll Be Around" and "One of a Kind Love Affair," and the O'Jays' "Love Train." I think I heard "You Make Me Feel Brand New" not too long ago, but you're right, the Stylistics, for some reason, haven't aged well.

Those old songs hanging around the playlist are making for some odd segues with the newer material. They just played Ben E. King's "Stand By Me" and Bryan Adams' "Cuts Like a Knife" back to back. Earlier it was the Beatles' "I Want To Hold Your Hand" into Heatwave's "Always and Forever." And even though they're separated by less than a decade, McCartney's "Silly Love Songs" into Roxette's "The Look" is kind of jarring to me, too. But hey, I'm just a listener. As you say, this looks like the future of classic hits, or at least one step further down the road to that future.

 

[oldies76]

Do many stations still play "Green-Eyed Lady?" I LOVE the sound of that song.

Still hear it our local AM occasionally, but I usually tune-out, since they only play the 3 minute radio edit. The longer album version is much better!

 

[oldies76]

I can't believe any 60s music is still on the classic hits format, to be honest.

And whatever is left :'( :'( are just "well-tested" repeats, such as "Brown Eyed Girl" from 1967, some Beatles, Stones, Supremes, "Stand By Me" for some reason and other overplays.

Way, way too much is being ignored...but I've said this before.

 

[CTListener]

"Stand By Me" for some reason and other overplays.

Movie exposure.

 

[carolinaradio]

Yeah, "Sweet City Woman," "Nice to Be With You" and "When Will I See You Again" were played often on DRC, but no more, at least not when I've been listening. Both HJF&R hits still get played, though, as do Nilsson's "Without You" and "Coconut," Seals & Crofts' "Summer Breeze" and "Get Closer," the Spinners' "I'll Be Around" and "One of a Kind Love Affair," and the O'Jays' "Love Train." I think I heard "You Make Me Feel Brand New" not too long ago, but you're right, the Stylistics, for some reason, haven't aged well.

Yeah, you might still hear those Spinners tracks (notably "I'll Be Around", makes sense as it is their biggest solo hit) and O'Jays' "Love Train" (same situation), but you used to hear a lot more from acts like The Spinners ("Could It Be I'm Falling In Love", "It's A Shame", "Then Came You"), O'Jays' "Backstabbers", Four Tops' "Ain't No Woman", etc. I guess as the format moves its focus a little more in to the decade, lesser hits from an earlier period will be dropped. Example could be, you still hear "Do Wah Diddy Diddy" but no longer "Quinn The Eskimo" by Mannfred Mann.

I mainly stream WOCL for Classic Hits. I think they may still play "Summer Breeze", they have a wide playlist.

Those old songs hanging around the playlist are making for some odd segues with the newer material. They just played Ben E. King's "Stand By Me" and Bryan Adams' "Cuts Like a Knife" back to back. Earlier it was the Beatles' "I Want To Hold Your Hand" into Heatwave's "Always and Forever." And even though they're separated by less than a decade, McCartney's "Silly Love Songs" into Roxette's "The Look" is kind of jarring to me, too. But hey, I'm just a listener. As you say, this looks like the future of classic hits, or at least one step further down the road to that future.

I guess it all depends on what tests well. It's pretty impressive that songs 50 years old (or nearly) like "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" still test well enough 25-54 (when the oldest listener was around 4) to be played. Then again, I'm in my 20s and love Classic Hits. I am surprised somewhat at how many people in my age range enjoy 70s and 80s music....some even back to the 50s.

 

[oldies76]

Then again, I'm in my 20s and love Classic Hits. I am surprised somewhat at how many people in my age range enjoy 70s and 80s music....some even back to the 50s.

I strongly believe it's the quality of the music presented...The older music has talent...you're talking real instruments, songwriting, originality, simplicity of the music (lyrics) and some younger folks appreciate that, vs today's music. There are some good songs out now, but much of it lacks quality. Besides, you are still hearing the older songs on classic hits radio, proving that it's standing the test of time and younger ones are discovering that and through their parents.

A good example of a song from today (2013 release) is "Suit and Tie" by Justin Timberlake. Sort of a 70's throwback...then BOOM! A rap segment in the middle by Jay Z just ruins it....lack of quality.

 

[CTListener]

Then again, I'm in my 20s and love Classic Hits. I am surprised somewhat at how many people in my age range enjoy 70s and 80s music....some even back to the 50s.

I strongly believe it's the quality of the music presented...The older music has talent...you're talking real instruments, songwriting, originality, simplicity of the music (lyrics) and some younger folks appreciate that, vs today's music. There are some good songs out now, but much of it lacks quality. Besides, you are still hearing the older songs on classic hits radio, proving that it's standing the test of time and younger ones are discovering that and through their parents.

A good example of a song from today (2013 release) is "Suit and Tie" by Justin Timberlake. Sort of a 70's throwback...then BOOM! A rap segment in the middle by Jay Z just ruins it....lack of quality.

Kind of like Natasha Bedingfield's fun, Caribbean-tinged "Love Like This." The song finds an agreeable groove and is moving right along when -- boom -- here comes Sean Kingston with a rap, and he does it twice! Ditto for Katy Perry's "California Gurls," disrupted by Snoop Dogg.

For a real throwback, check out Olly Murs' "Dance With Me Tonight," a big UK hit that never really gained traction here. (I heard it once on a mall's background music system, so I assume it was released to radio here and failed.) You can hear all sorts of influences in it, from '50s doo-wop to Motown. And no rap!

 

[carolinaradio]

Then again, I'm in my 20s and love Classic Hits. I am surprised somewhat at how many people in my age range enjoy 70s and 80s music....some even back to the 50s.

I strongly believe it's the quality of the music presented...The older music has talent...you're talking real instruments, songwriting, originality, simplicity of the music (lyrics) and some younger folks appreciate that, vs today's music. There are some good songs out now, but much of it lacks quality. Besides, you are still hearing the older songs on classic hits radio, proving that it's standing the test of time and younger ones are discovering that and through their parents.

This is very, very true. IMO, starting around the mid-80s, there was less and less QUALITY music produced. All downhill from there with 90s and 00s music (90s Alternative is sort of an exception, with me), there are some good songs that I still like, but not the amount of quality, time-tested songs we saw in prior decades. I like a fair amount of songs out now, but find most of them disposable and doubt I will still want to hear most of them down the road.

I grew up listening to "Oldies" (mostly 60s) as that's what my parents listened to, just like a lot of other people in my age range. I sort of followed the format as it evolved to Classic Hits, and still enjoy it today. Our 70s/80s heavy Variety Hits station's popularity with people who didn't really grow up when that music was initially popular that I notice is great to see. While the popularity of older music among us younger people probably isn't high enough to catch the attention of the broadcast conglomerates, it's pretty notable. I made a Classic Hits Spotify playlist a while back and have gotten "subscriptions" from many young people....I love seeing it!

BTW, back to DRC-FM - a lot of the stuff they are mixing in from the late 70s and 80s are AC-friendly tracks - WRCH does so well, it could be an attempt to try to snag some audience from them. Not that familiar with the market, but that looks very possible to me.

 

[willdav713]

Tom Kent doesn't have "Sandman" by America (I know I called his all request show during KXBT's last days) but has "Horse with No Name", "I Need You", "Sister Golden Hair", "Tin Man", "Don't Cross the River", and "Ventura Highway" The TOC plays "Daisy Jane" and doesn't play "Sandman" All these songs on own their Greatest Hit's Album.

Probably because "Sandman" wasn't a hit. It was the B-side of "A Horse With No Name" and did not chart on its own.

Then why was it on their "Greatest Hits" album?

Every song on Chicago's Greatest Hits album was played on a Oldies station at one point in time.

 

[CTListener]

BTW, back to DRC-FM - a lot of the stuff they are mixing in from the late 70s and 80s are AC-friendly tracks - WRCH does so well, it could be an attempt to try to snag some audience from them. Not that familiar with the market, but that looks very possible to me.

I've noticed that. Recent "new" titles from that period have been on the order of "Always and Forever," "Voices Carry," "True," the Bananarama version of "Venus" and the John Mellencamp version of "Wild Night," with very few songs that would also be suitable for classic rock. "Hungry Like the Wolf," maybe? Naaaahhh. Kind of the opposite direction they seem to be going with earlier titles. For example, I hear the Moody Blues' "I'm Just a Singer (in a Rock and Roll Band)" on DRC these days, but not "Nights in White Satin." (And for that I'm very grateful. "Just a Singer" kicks ass, while "Nights" has been a burnout for me for quite a while.)

The market has a reputation for being friendlier to R&B oldies (and, by extension, disco) than, say, Boston. When DRC was more '60s/'70s focused, they'd play things like Bobby Womack's "Lookin' for a Love," Clarence Carter's "Too Weak to Fight" and Wilson Pickett's "634-5789" in addition to the standard Motown, Aretha, Sam & Dave oldies every other oldies station would play. Jammin' Oldies (or, as it was called here, Dancin' Oldies) did OK for WZMX before it was flipped to full-blown urban; in fact during that period DRC added a bunch of soul and disco oldies to its playlist to protect its turf, even announcing each new song's presence with "And now, another hot oldie from DRC-FM!"

Of course, everything the station is doing today is related to getting younger-sounding and keeping down the 55+ listening. But so many of us who are in that demo now stayed with CHR until rap came in in the late '80s/early '90s that I don't think they're going to drive us all away until they take that big plunge into the '90s.

 

[firepoint525]

I can't believe any 60s music is still on the classic hits format, to be honest. I guess there are a lot of those songs who test well with listeners who don't remember them when they were new. The 60s are certainly doing better than the 50s, I don't remember anything pre-1964 on oldies/classic hits stations in 2003.

That has been the point that I (and others on here) have been trying to make for this entire thread. Semoochie seems to have this mistaken belief that the '50s were in heavy rotation prior to 2004. (And why he keeps fixating on '04 is beyond me. :) We lost our ('60s-centered) oldies station in 2005. Another station quickly adopted the oldies format, but even they vacated it the following year. Meanwhile, semoochie is wringing his hands over the (potential?) loss of '60s music from the radio, while we have all been telling him that it has already happened. Even by his own admission, a station dropped from five '60s tunes an hour to just one. But if a station was only playing five '60s songs an hour, that only makes up about 1/3 to even just 1/4 of your hour. Definitely NOT a "'60s-centered" playlist. I maintain that the next time a "generational sweep" happens, it will wipe out EVERYTHING prior to 1980 from the radio. That is why I say hold out for as long as possible AGAINST another "generational change." It is interesting that with a supposedly "aging" population, advertisers focus on the smaller (by comparison) younger age groups. They are a smaller (by population) generation than we are, and a smaller percentage of that smaller generation is actually listening to radio. This is why I am thinking that once our generation entirely ages out of advertisers' precious demographic, music on radio will no longer be sellable, and broadcasters will be forced to go with all-talk or all-sports formats in order to keep any listeners. And with a rapidly shrinking playlist, that may be your only option. The trend is in that direction now. A couple of stations here in Nashville that had been "flip-happy" did not stop flipping until they settled on sports formats.

 

[firepoint525]

Those old songs hanging around the playlist are making for some odd segues with the newer material. They just played Ben E. King's "Stand By Me" and Bryan Adams' "Cuts Like a Knife" back to back. Earlier it was the Beatles' "I Want To Hold Your Hand" into Heatwave's "Always and Forever." And even though they're separated by less than a decade, McCartney's "Silly Love Songs" into Roxette's "The Look" is kind of jarring to me, too. But hey, I'm just a listener. As you say, this looks like the future of classic hits, or at least one step further down the road to that future.

Actually, those two were separated by slightly over a decade. 1976 for "Silly Love Songs," 1989 for "The Look."

 

[firepoint525]

I guess as the format moves its focus a little more in to the decade, lesser hits from an earlier period will be dropped. Example could be, you still hear "Do Wah Diddy Diddy" but no longer "Quinn The Eskimo" by Mannfred Mann.

Actually, "Do Wah Diddy Diddy" was the earlier of those two, by about four years.

 

[michael hagerty]

Tom Kent doesn't have "Sandman" by America (I know I called his all request show during KXBT's last days) but has "Horse with No Name", "I Need You", "Sister Golden Hair", "Tin Man", "Don't Cross the River", and "Ventura Highway" The TOC plays "Daisy Jane" and doesn't play "Sandman" All these songs on own their Greatest Hit's Album.

Probably because "Sandman" wasn't a hit. It was the B-side of "A Horse With No Name" and did not chart on its own.

Then why was it on their "Greatest Hits" album?

Every song on Chicago's Greatest Hits album was played on a Oldies station at one point in time.

Because America had fewer chart singles than Chicago at the time they wanted a compilation album and Warner Bros. had to resort to filler.

That, by the way, was not uncommon at the time. Most greatest hits LPs had some tracks that weren't charted singles, were low-charting stiffs and in some cases left off bigger hits in favor of those to set aside for "Greatest Hits Vol. 2". Chicago was one of the first to be truly a "greatest hits" package (Elton John's Greatest Hits came close, but included Border Song, which stiffed at #94).

Back then, most bands had little or no input into compilation albums. They were strictly a record label marketing device and often a way for labels to make a few more bucks off songs they'd already paid the expenses on and had made money on before.

In America's case, Warners wanted to strike when the iron was hot. The band had an erratic chart history...three top 10 singles in a row, then three that charted between #35 and #67, followed by two that didn't chart at all and then three big hit singles in a row. It was on the heels of Tin Man, Lonely People and Sister Golden Hair that Warners released the greatest hits album (though the Sister Golden Hair follow up Daisy Jane only made #20 and the third single off the album, Woman Tonight, stopped at #44). Good timing on their part, because the string was over. The next single, Today's The Day, only made #23, most of the next 7 years found their records not even charting. They went Top 10 only one more time in their career...in 1982, but that was on a different label.

Oldies/Classic Hits stations don't decide whether to play a song based on whether it's included on a Greatest Hits album. It's probably been 25 years since most of these stations (and syndicated shows like Tom Kent's) even had physical copies of albums on hand. TM GoldDiscs came first, assembling thousands of hits onto CDs, with volume levels equalized for broadcast. Now, it's probably digitally downloaded individual tracks.