firepoint525 said:
I must've been listening to CHR longer than I thought. I could've sworn I checked out of the format in favor of country and oldies in '88. "The Look" definitely has that mid-'80s feel to it.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?
- Thread starter semoochie
- Start date
I must've been listening to CHR longer than I thought. I could've sworn I checked out of the format in favor of country and oldies in '88. "The Look" definitely has that mid-'80s feel to it.
Paul McCartney has stuck it to his fans several times with regard to that. He left "Listen to What the Man Said" (a #1 hit) off of Wings' Greatest, substituting "Mull of Kintyre" instead. Granted, "Mull" was one of the biggest hits of all time in the UK, but I am guessing that Wings' Greatest was for American consumption. Then 10 of the 12 songs on Wings' Greatest reappeared on All the Best a few years later. And All the Best and Wingspan both contained "C Moon," which was only the B-side of "Hi Hi Hi" and was never a hit in its own right. If he wanted to offer some non-album b-sides on his compilation albums, then "Girls' School" and/or "Sally G" (both minor hits in their own right) would have been better choices. Since Paul owns nearly all of his own publishing on his post-Beatles work, I am further assuming that he had the final say on what went onto his compilation albums.michael hagerty said:
Referring to compilation albums as "best of" or even "anthology" is better, because it does not imply that everything on it was a "hit." I have gotten to where I prefer live albums, because they are sometimes better retrospectives of an artist's career, if done correctly. And I have found that they make for great listening whenever traveling on the road for long distances.
I lived in Raleigh-Durham, NC and received 4 Oldies stations in 2004 - WFLB/Fayetteville, WMQX/Winston-Salem, WTRG/Raleigh, and WNCT/Greenville. Also went through Charlotte and Greenville a lot and listened to WWMG/Charlotte and WGVC/Greenville (a lot of these calls have changed now). ALL of those stations had ditched pre-64's (except for maybe a few) by 2001. Definitely 2004. So, no, 50s music was gone by the turn of the century on the majority of these stations.firepoint525 said:That has been the point that I (and others on here) have been trying to make for this entire thread. Semoochie seems to have this mistaken belief that the '50s were in heavy rotation prior to 2004. (And why he keeps fixating on '04 is beyond me. :) We lost our ('60s-centered) oldies station in 2005. Another station quickly adopted the oldies format, but even they vacated it the following year. Meanwhile, semoochie is wringing his hands over the (potential?) loss of '60s music from the radio, while we have all been telling him that it has already happened. Even by his own admission, a station dropped from five '60s tunes an hour to just one. But if a station was only playing five '60s songs an hour, that only makes up about 1/3 to even just 1/4 of your hour. Definitely NOT a "'60s-centered" playlist. I maintain that the next time a "generational sweep" happens, it will wipe out EVERYTHING prior to 1980 from the radio. That is why I say hold out for as long as possible AGAINST another "generational change." It is interesting that with a supposedly "aging" population, advertisers focus on the smaller (by comparison) younger age groups. They are a smaller (by population) generation than we are, and a smaller percentage of that smaller generation is actually listening to radio. This is why I am thinking that once our generation entirely ages out of advertisers' precious demographic, music on radio will no longer be sellable, and broadcasters will be forced to go with all-talk or all-sports formats in order to keep any listeners. And with a rapidly shrinking playlist, that may be your only option. The trend is in that direction now. A couple of stations here in Nashville that had been "flip-happy" did not stop flipping until they settled on sports formats.
I agree that 1980 will be the next cut-off, since there was no clear shift in musical style in the 70s like you had with the 60s to get the 1964 cut-off date. However, I don't know how the classic hits format would evolve by that point; when it comes time for the format to add 90s material, I don't think there will be enough material from that decade that will test, it's a big hassle for programmers I have read. AC stations won't even play much 90s music because so little of it tests well. I look for the format to hang on to 70s/80s as long as possible. I just can't see an 80s/90s format working well. I have to agree with you about radio's state by the time that is likely.
I guess it varies by market, but I'm surprised so many times how similar a lot of a Variety Hits stations are to today's Classic Hits stations, especially in markets where VH is the only game in town. WCJK in Nashville (the station I'm assuming you're referring to) is somewhat older in its focus but doesn't play as much 70s material as most.
When the Jack format was first launched, it specifically stated (in marketing materials, but not to the general public) that its music started in 1974.
I've heard people before say that the music of the early 70s doesn't match the music of the mid to late 70s.
That could be one cut-off before they get to 1980.
I've heard people before say that the music of the early 70s doesn't match the music of the mid to late 70s.
That could be one cut-off before they get to 1980.
radiophiler said:
Sounds like they're using disco -- "Rock the Boat," specifically -- as a dividing line. Not sure I'm buying that. Disco wasn't nearly as polarizing as rap was.
michael hagerty said:
Right, from what a former DJ told me, Clear Channel has a huge repository of songs that can be immediately downloaded to a station cluster's automation system (via internet or satellite) in a few hours or a day. Unfortunately a lot of their oldies and classic rock are dubbed from the Goldisc CD library.
As for America "Sandman" had a lot of AOR airplay, so I bet that factored in Warner Brothers picking the song for their greatest hits CD. For a long long time, the only America CD's you could find was their first self-titled album and "History".
billyg said:
I'm sure that was part of it. Even including stiffs like "Daisy Jane" (#20), "Don't Cross The River" (#35), "Woman Tonight" (#44), "Only In Your Heart" (#62) and "Muskrat Love" (#67), they only had 11 singles to work with (Warners didn't include the non-charting "Rainbow Song" and "Green Monkey").
In truth, "History" was 6 Top 10s, one near-miss, four outright stiffs and an album track. It still managed to hit #3 and go quadruple platinum.
michael hagerty said:
This is why the very definition of "hits" is in the eye of the beholder. A couple of those "outright" CHR stiffs youe mentioned above were very high charters on the AC chart.
OldNumber7 said:
As an AC programmer in the 70s, I can tell you, the format wasn't a big factor in sales. "Muskrat Love" making #11 on the AC chart and "Daisy Jane" getting number 4 likely didn't mean much.
michael hagerty said:
It's still not a bad ratio of hits and misses. I still see "History" in the $5 Best Buy and Wal-Mart bargain CD bins now and then. I dont think it's ever been remastered since the 80's even though Rhino has reissued most of their Warner Brothers catalog and a better best of CD called "The Complete Greatest Hits".
Another old Warner Brothers LP/CD thats been in print for decades is the Association's "Greatest Hits". The CD is a poorly mastered hiss monster, but because it was the only place to get "Windy" and "Cherish" on CD for years oldies stations played it. I remember hearing "Windy" on 1520 KOMA-AM (in their AM/FM simulcast days) and the lead vocal was almost buried.
I think the biggest rip-off of a Greatest Hits LP was the Eagles "Greatest Hits Volume 2"... mostly songs from "Hotel California", "The Long Run", "Seven Bridges Road" from the "Eagles Live" album, and a filler non-hit cut from 1975's "One of These Nights".
billyg said:
I dunno...10 cuts, 5 top 10s, one #11 (the language problem cost "Life In The Fast Lane" in terms of airplay), a near-miss ("Seven Bridges Road" peaked at #22), two LP cuts and a B-Side ("Victim of Love"). Sounds about on par with America.
Warners' real trouble in the late 1975 Greatest Hits derby was Seals & Crofts. This was a duo that only had 2 top 10 singles to their name. Their Greatest Hits album was those two ("Summer Breeze" and "Diamond Girl"), three near-misses ("Hummingbird", "We May Never Pass This Way Again" and "I'll Play For You"), three stiffs, an album cut and a B-side. Might be why the LP stopped at #11.
michael hagerty said:
Good chance, and that they were coming off a couple of stiff albums didn't help either.
Time and radio has not has been kind to their recordings. Classic hits radio has almost phased out almost all "soft rock" hitmakers who scored big on the Adult Contemporary charts. You're lucky to hear "Summer Breeze" anymore.
The Variety Hits format is interesting. While this is more than likely true in markets where there is a classic hits station, in many where there isn't one, the Variety Hits serves as the Classic Hits station nearly. 98.7 Simon in Greensboro/Winston-Salem is a good example of this - they frequently goes back in to the 60s - "For What It's Worth", "Get Together", "Do Wah Diddy Diddy", "Happy Together", "Oh, Pretty Woman", "Stand By Me", "Sunshine Superman", "Gimme Some Lovin", etc. No 1974 cutoff there.CTListener said:
carolinaradio said:
Again, I don't think anybody's using a calendar here. It's all about whether a station starts to see too large a percentage of its audience on the wrong side of 55, or whether songs start not testing well with the core demo.
Michael,
Could you explain why KRTH is still playing about three 1960's hits every hour (looking at their music log for today)?
Do you expect it to last? Frankly it does not bother me. Glad the 60's are still being represented on a station like KRTH (even though they are usually the same ole songs).
Or is it the case that these 60's songs will stand the "test of time" and will test well with their listeners for a few more years. It seems like these particular 60's songs are K-Earth standards now, like their trademark sound.
Could you explain why KRTH is still playing about three 1960's hits every hour (looking at their music log for today)?
Do you expect it to last? Frankly it does not bother me. Glad the 60's are still being represented on a station like KRTH (even though they are usually the same ole songs).
Or is it the case that these 60's songs will stand the "test of time" and will test well with their listeners for a few more years. It seems like these particular 60's songs are K-Earth standards now, like their trademark sound.
oldies76 said:
Oldies:
By my count, they've played five 60s songs an hour every hour since 2PM this afternoon. Yesterday, it was more like three, which is their norm. I wonder if they're easing into a 60s weekend or something.
There's only one reason: The songs test well with the audience they care about most. And it will last until they stop testing well or their demographic mix starts to tip too heavy 55+ (as David has told us they're dangerously close to).
Again: Nobody's programming using a calendar. They use music testing. In the long view, the calendar matters, because fewer and fewer songs from 44-49 years ago will test well with 35-49 year old listeners as time goes on. But these particular songs still test.
Interestingly, KRTH is likely THE oldest sounding classic hits station CBS owns. I wonder how they get away with it?
carolinaradio said:
Last summer, when I was up in Albany, NY, area, I gave WTRY a listen and found it sounding a lot older than WODS in Boston was at the time. Not sure how it skews now. Of course, even adding '80s titles didn't save WODS from the advertiser-dictated ax; it's now rhythmic CHR "Amp Radio." It hasn't changed its call letters that kind of say "oldies" yet, but that doesn't matter, since they're only mumbled during the top-of-the-hour ID.
oldies76 said:
Again, remember that KRTH is driven by Hispanic listening (45% to 50% of total listening). As a broad rule, Hispanics over 30 don't classify music into "decade silos" and there is no loss of cool from playing an older song. So, if that segment of the audience heard some of those 60's songs... even if it was from "gold" play... and they continue to like them, that makes KRTH more likely than most classic hits stations to continue to play them.
"Semoochie seems to have this mistaken belief that the '50s were in heavy rotation prior to 2004. (And why he keeps fixating on '04 is beyond me. Roll Eyes) We lost our ('60s-centered) oldies station in 2005. Another station quickly adopted the oldies format, but even they vacated it the following year. Meanwhile, semoochie is wringing his hands over the (potential?) loss of '60s music from the radio, while we have all been telling him that it has already happened." It's discouraging for me. I carefully explain my point but people never get it. I acknowledged that 50s play had been greatly reduced before 2004 but the early 60s were still in heavy rotation. I'm going to assume that in your market, the change was make earlier but 2004 was the year that everything pre-Beatles was removed from one big Oldies station after another and replaced with 70s titles. If you can find an old enough archive, there was plenty about it on this website, with people going on and on, about how awful the whole thing was.
- Status