-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Classic Hits: Evolution or Revolution?
- Thread starter semoochie
- Start date
B
Biondi4Mayor
Guest
"Batdance" - hahaha.
WOMC's playlist for today yielded no Motown or Aretha surprises.
WOMC's playlist for today yielded no Motown or Aretha surprises.
oldies76 said:
So......we should ignore "Batdance"....but treat #1 as instantly playable for anything before it?
B
Biondi4Mayor
Guest
michael hagerty said:
No, you should test Batdance - which it likely isn't getting that.
Biondi4Mayor said:
It's not supposed to yield surprises, it's supposed to yield songs that the intended target audience has in common as songs they like or at least won't tune out.
If you're expecting the long version of "Superwoman" or "Master of Eyes", you're looking in the wrong format.
Biondi4Mayor said:
And again, you assume you know what is being tested and what isn't in dozens of different markets across the country.
B
Biondi4Mayor
Guest
michael hagerty said:
No, but it wouldn't be a stretch to expect things like "Since You've Been Gone", "The Happening", or "Mama's Pearl".
B
Biondi4Mayor
Guest
michael hagerty said:
We're in the same position. You assume all songs reasonable of play are adequately tested in all markets. I'm assuming there's dozens of ones not getting tested.
oldies76 said:
And....KRTH plays "Ring My Bell". While I haven't seen "Pop Muzik", I have seen "Funkytown", so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Biondi4Mayor said:
Do you know that they don't in fact play them?
B
Biondi4Mayor
Guest
michael hagerty said:
No matter how I answer this, you won't believe me. So let your imagination run wild.
Biondi4Mayor said:
That's not the same position. It's also not accurate.
I know that stations in dozens of markets do statistically accurate testing quarterly. That's 2400 titles a year.
There's nothing to be gained (unless, like True Oldies, you're trying to find what to drop so you can shrink your list) from only testing what you're playing.
It is very much to the station's advantage to test records as they age in and to re-test those that have not tested well previously because there will always be a certain amount of churn. Songs on the playlist will age out or burn. They have to be replaced or the playlist shrinks, the rotations tighten and burn increases.
Again, with what's at stake (millions of dollars, jobs, shareholder equity), there is no reason not to test and hope for good scores.
However, you need to be open minded to the reality that not all songs will test well. In fact, a majority won't. Because consensus is not easy. Finding 800 songs that hundreds of thousands (and in the major markets, millions) of listeners can agree on as favorites is a daunting task. I don't understand why you would find it difficult to believe that an insufficient number of people who are, on average, 47 years old today, would not count "Brand New Key", "Candy Man" or "I Am Woman" as favorites simply because they happened to be #1 41 years ago.
Biondi4Mayor said:
That's not true.
If you said yes, and backed up your answer with facts, I'd believe you.
If you said no, I'd believe that, too.
B
Biondi4Mayor
Guest
michael hagerty said:
Fact, not really. But, check the playlist (if you feel like sitting through another CBS webpage like you were doing with KRTH).
I haven't heard them.
I haven't seen them.
Oldies: I'm transferring our most recent conversation over here from the L.A. board to avoid offending 36james any further:
Re: a personal invitation.
« Reply #69 on: Today at 08:42:01 PM »
Good question. You'll hate the answer.
Well, actually, you'll hate the answer depending on the situation. And the situation involves things like market size and whether you care about making money.
The biggest problem is that the tiniest percentage of listeners...6% tops, if there's a payoff for them like a prize...participate in anything. 94% will simply turn the dial if there's something they don't like. They'll never tell you.
They'll also never tell you if you're doing something right. And if their taste is different from the 6%, that right thing could be something that you're getting complaints on from the 6%. And if you listen to the 6% and stop doing it, the 94% will leave without even saying goodbye.
Even reducing the number of spins on a record the 6% complain about could mean you've brought the record down to a level where the 94% who love it never hear it, or feel they don't hear it enough.
Chris Compton can do it his way as long as he's not relying on advertising to survive.
A guy who's got the only station in town and is so remote outside signals can't get in could try it. But if he guesses wrong about the music and listens to the 6%, the 94% will sign up for Sirius, order an iPod from Amazon....(I've actually seen this happen in the small town I grew up in after leaving L.A. The single local station owner totally misjudged the market. The local TV and radio store started stocking and selling a boatload of tape decks and one local business owner went so far as to build a translator and pumped an L.A. FM into the market so people could listen to something else...and they did).
A small, unrated market that's not that remote? Tougher. In the mid-70s, I programmed KUKI in Ukiah. 120 miles north of San Francisco. Before I got there, they were dying by doing essentially what you suggest. Most of the town was listening to San Francisco stations, because they (at least the biggies like KSFO, KFRC, KNBR, KCBS and KGO) came in like locals. The only way to survive was to compete with KSFO, KFRC and KNBR...not in San Francisco...our signal wouldn't reach there...but in our town. So we did. We tightened up and played the hits. And we caught on. Word of mouth carried us. We used a local college to do research to track listening. We went way up. And so did revenues.
Up the ladder a bit more...a very small rated market. Well, in the other thread on the 60s/70s/80s board, we've talked about KJMK in Joplin, MO (market #233...one of the smallest Arbitron rated markets in America). It's a classic hits station a poster from that area said is appallingly tight-listed. He can't imagine why they ignore certain records that used to be hits. The fall book for that market came out Friday. Since adopting that approach 10 months ago, the station has gone from a 4.2 and 6th place (in a city with only 7 rated stations) to an 11.0 and 3rd place.
Oldies, in a market that size on up, if you simply throw everything on the air and wait for the audience to tell you what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong, a competitor will eat your lunch overnight as the 6% send you chasing your tail while the 94% find the station that is playing songs that are statistically proven to be favorites or at least not tune-outs to most people of their age. Ratings will be marginal to begin with and fall with each successive measurement. There will be minimal (at best) revenues and eventually you won't be able to continue. People will lose their jobs and you will lose either your position as PD or GM, or if you're an owner, your investment.
Re: a personal invitation.
« Reply #69 on: Today at 08:42:01 PM »
Good question. You'll hate the answer.
Well, actually, you'll hate the answer depending on the situation. And the situation involves things like market size and whether you care about making money.
The biggest problem is that the tiniest percentage of listeners...6% tops, if there's a payoff for them like a prize...participate in anything. 94% will simply turn the dial if there's something they don't like. They'll never tell you.
They'll also never tell you if you're doing something right. And if their taste is different from the 6%, that right thing could be something that you're getting complaints on from the 6%. And if you listen to the 6% and stop doing it, the 94% will leave without even saying goodbye.
Even reducing the number of spins on a record the 6% complain about could mean you've brought the record down to a level where the 94% who love it never hear it, or feel they don't hear it enough.
Chris Compton can do it his way as long as he's not relying on advertising to survive.
A guy who's got the only station in town and is so remote outside signals can't get in could try it. But if he guesses wrong about the music and listens to the 6%, the 94% will sign up for Sirius, order an iPod from Amazon....(I've actually seen this happen in the small town I grew up in after leaving L.A. The single local station owner totally misjudged the market. The local TV and radio store started stocking and selling a boatload of tape decks and one local business owner went so far as to build a translator and pumped an L.A. FM into the market so people could listen to something else...and they did).
A small, unrated market that's not that remote? Tougher. In the mid-70s, I programmed KUKI in Ukiah. 120 miles north of San Francisco. Before I got there, they were dying by doing essentially what you suggest. Most of the town was listening to San Francisco stations, because they (at least the biggies like KSFO, KFRC, KNBR, KCBS and KGO) came in like locals. The only way to survive was to compete with KSFO, KFRC and KNBR...not in San Francisco...our signal wouldn't reach there...but in our town. So we did. We tightened up and played the hits. And we caught on. Word of mouth carried us. We used a local college to do research to track listening. We went way up. And so did revenues.
Up the ladder a bit more...a very small rated market. Well, in the other thread on the 60s/70s/80s board, we've talked about KJMK in Joplin, MO (market #233...one of the smallest Arbitron rated markets in America). It's a classic hits station a poster from that area said is appallingly tight-listed. He can't imagine why they ignore certain records that used to be hits. The fall book for that market came out Friday. Since adopting that approach 10 months ago, the station has gone from a 4.2 and 6th place (in a city with only 7 rated stations) to an 11.0 and 3rd place.
Oldies, in a market that size on up, if you simply throw everything on the air and wait for the audience to tell you what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong, a competitor will eat your lunch overnight as the 6% send you chasing your tail while the 94% find the station that is playing songs that are statistically proven to be favorites or at least not tune-outs to most people of their age. Ratings will be marginal to begin with and fall with each successive measurement. There will be minimal (at best) revenues and eventually you won't be able to continue. People will lose their jobs and you will lose either your position as PD or GM, or if you're an owner, your investment.
oldies76 said:
Absolutely. It's a numbers game. Satisfy the largest number of people simultaneously 24/7. As long as that number adds up to a rating in the sales demo, you're making money. If/when it falls, you've got trouble.
- Status