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Clear Channel has destroyed L.A. radio

> >
> KIIS 12+ numebrs are flat over the past year (despite
> Power's fall from 1st to 8th)...

Power is still #1 18-34, which is what they are about. And they and KIIS are off due to KXOL. These stations can not compete directly with a Spanglish format, so there is little to do. The market keeps on fragmenting.

> and they are down the past
> 6 months as is KYSR. Maybe you aren't looking at the same
> numbers I am... I use those in R&R. KCBS has had little to
> no effect on KYSR's 12+ numbers... KYSR also has EXACTLY the
> same 12+ numbers now as they had a year ago...

KCBS has had a huge effect on KYSR in the core 25-39 female demos they were after in the past. Let's see how Mike hadles this. They are defintely being squeezed, but adding more currents for a mostly 30+ demo is hardly the way to do it.
>
> KOST and KHHT... yes, those stations are up overall...
> though KHHT did fall a couple spots in the last book...
> KOST in particular seems to run fine on it's own and as I've
> said earlier, they are THE ONLY ONE of the CC stations that
> I listen to that even takes a chance on new music. They
> played the Ryan Cabrera "True" and Carrie Underwood "Inside
> Your Heaven" singles for example... KIIS played "True" too
> but it was an almost unrecognizable mix... KOST takes some
> chances and their consistently great numbers bear this
> out... the other stations are way too safe and could really
> get some better numbers if they were more aggressive in
> their programming like KOST is.

KOIST aggressive? I don't even want to answer that.

Most people, unfortunately for you, do not want lots of new music and could care less what is charting.
>
 
U guys R high

As always, right on and well said. I second that emotion.

It's always easy to piss & moan about the "conglomerates". "The suits", "the consultants", etc. It's the same old and tired droning on and on. If it sucks that bad, get an MP3 player or Satellite and stop whining about something you can't control.


> And you would have like 11 listeners in LA, man.
>
> This is not Clear Channel's fault. This whole complaint of
> your is essentially "why don't they play more white music
> for me" in a city that is decidedly ehtnic and rhythmic.
>
> If you want that kind of music, go to Minneapolis.
>
 
This is not Clear Channel's fault. This whole complaint of
> your is essentially "why don't they play more white music
> for me" in a city that is decidedly ehtnic and rhythmic.
>
> If you want that kind of music, go to Minneapolis.
>
I can't believe what a racist statement you made Eduardo.
If we take your logic, I suppose KFI and KROQ should go
away too. Or, better yet the millions of whites should
move out of LA. Reverse-racisim is alive and well.



> > >
> > Bottom line is KIIS right now is nore CHR/Urban than
> > CHR/Pop... There's a BIG, gaping hole in the market
> > reminscent of 1989... if you look at the Hot AC and
> CHR/Pop
> > charts right now, you'll see a lot of big hits not getting
>
> > played in this market...
>
> That is because they are NOT hits in this market. LA, in the
> 12-34 CHR demos, is 70% ethnic. Thythmic is the formula that
> works, and the pop stuff has very little acceptance here as
> witnessed by the attempts of KIIS to be less rythmic in the
> past. Today, they are consistently top 3 in the ratings, and
> have absolutely no reson to change.
>
> > Natasha Bedingfield, Relient K,
> > Staind, Saving Jane, Click Five, Ashlee Simpson,
> Lifehouse,
> > Bo Bice, Weezer, Howie Day, Alanis Morissette, Fray, Anna
> > Nalick, Collective Soul, Daniel Powter, Santana w/Steven
> > Tyler, Coldplay (2), All-American Rejects, Carrie
> Underwood,
> > Bon Jovi, Scott Stapp, 3 Doors Down, Depeche Mode and Jack
>
> > Johnson all have current songs on either one or both of
> > these charts... That's 26 songs... you could start a
> pretty
> > good sounding radio station with those songs and some GOLD
>
> > and RECURRENTS...
>
> And you would have like 11 listeners in LA, man.
>
> This is not Clear Channel's fault. This whole complaint of
> your is essentially "why don't they play more white music
> for me" in a city that is decidedly ehtnic and rhythmic.
>
> If you want that kind of music, go to Minneapolis.
>
 
Oh come on!!

> This is not Clear Channel's fault. This whole complaint of
> > your is essentially "why don't they play more white music
> > for me" in a city that is decidedly ehtnic and rhythmic.
> >
> > If you want that kind of music, go to Minneapolis.
> >
> I can't believe what a racist statement you made Eduardo.
> If we take your logic, I suppose KFI and KROQ should go
> away too. Or, better yet the millions of whites should
> move out of LA. Reverse-racisim is alive and well.
>

Oh come on you are reading wayyyy too much into David's statement. You've frequented these boards long enough and seen enough of David's posts to know better. He is just stating a fact that pop/rock music is on decline in listenership overall in the LA Basin as opposed to other markets that still embrace rock artists who for the most part are Caucasion. David shouldn't have to worry about being PC here, should he??
 
Oh, puhleeze.

> This is not Clear Channel's fault. This whole complaint of
> > your is essentially "why don't they play more white music
> > for me" in a city that is decidedly ehtnic and rhythmic.
> >
> > If you want that kind of music, go to Minneapolis.
> >
> I can't believe what a racist statement you made Eduardo.
> If we take your logic, I suppose KFI and KROQ should go
> away too. Or, better yet the millions of whites should
> move out of LA. Reverse-racisim is alive and well.

I can't believe you took that as a racist remark.

David spent most of his post (the part you chose to edit out and not reply to) explaining the ethnicity of the L.A. market and why that results in less music being played that has non-ethnic appeal.

"White music" is, to me, as viable a descriptive term as any. Perhaps you should like to go after the rock group The Tubes next and ask them to change the name of their well-known song "White Punks on Dope" next?<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
> This is not Clear Channel's fault. This whole complaint of
> > your is essentially "why don't they play more white music
> > for me" in a city that is decidedly ehtnic and rhythmic.
> >
> > If you want that kind of music, go to Minneapolis.
> >
> I can't believe what a racist statement you made Eduardo.
> If we take your logic, I suppose KFI and KROQ should go
> away too. Or, better yet the millions of whites should
> move out of LA. Reverse-racisim is alive and well.

Gimme' a break. There is nothing racist about mentioning that the ethnicity of a market determines the kind of music that will be the mass appeal hits. That is just relity.
 
Re: Oh, puhleeze.

If someone had suggested that Little Rock Arkansas really
needed a Caribbean Tropical format to compete, and I in turn
suggested that they perhaps move to Miami or San Jose, that
would likely be considered racist. Yet this gentlemen is
saying as much.


> > This is not Clear Channel's fault. This whole complaint of
>
> > > your is essentially "why don't they play more white
> music
> > > for me" in a city that is decidedly ehtnic and rhythmic.
>
> > >
> > > If you want that kind of music, go to Minneapolis.
> > >
> > I can't believe what a racist statement you made Eduardo.
> > If we take your logic, I suppose KFI and KROQ should go
> > away too. Or, better yet the millions of whites should
> > move out of LA. Reverse-racisim is alive and well.
>
> I can't believe you took that as a racist remark.
>
> David spent most of his post (the part you chose to edit out
> and not reply to) explaining the ethnicity of the L.A.
> market and why that results in less music being played that
> has non-ethnic appeal.
>
> "White music" is, to me, as viable a descriptive term as
> any. Perhaps you should like to go after the rock group The
> Tubes next and ask them to change the name of their
> well-known song "White Punks on Dope" next?
>
 
Re: Oh come on!!

Actually, sorry to inform you I am not aware of
David's previous posts.

> > This is not Clear Channel's fault. This whole complaint of
>
> > > your is essentially "why don't they play more white
> music
> > > for me" in a city that is decidedly ehtnic and rhythmic.
>
> > >
> > > If you want that kind of music, go to Minneapolis.
> > >
> > I can't believe what a racist statement you made Eduardo.
> > If we take your logic, I suppose KFI and KROQ should go
> > away too. Or, better yet the millions of whites should
> > move out of LA. Reverse-racisim is alive and well.
> >
>
> Oh come on you are reading wayyyy too much into David's
> statement. You've frequented these boards long enough and
> seen enough of David's posts to know better. He is just
> stating a fact that pop/rock music is on decline in
> listenership overall in the LA Basin as opposed to other
> markets that still embrace rock artists who for the most
> part are Caucasion. David shouldn't have to worry about
> being PC here, should he??
>
 
> Clearchannel has destroyed many markets around the
> country..not just L.A...San Diego is another market which is
> clearchannel based. I like the smaller companies better as
> they are more creative with programming. When i am on the
> net, I will listen to radio from places where clearchannel
> does dominate such as Seattle and San Francisco....even like
> to listen to Canada.
>
> When it comes to radio comapnies...Entercomm and Citidel
> seem to be more loose when it comes to a playlist.

It seems like many Cox stations have tight playlists. Some of their stations I find very boring.
 
KIIS

> > >
> > Bottom line is KIIS right now is nore CHR/Urban than
> > CHR/Pop... There's a BIG, gaping hole in the market
> > reminscent of 1989... if you look at the Hot AC and
> CHR/Pop
> > charts right now, you'll see a lot of big hits not getting
>
> > played in this market...
>
> That is because they are NOT hits in this market. LA, in the
> 12-34 CHR demos, is 70% ethnic. Thythmic is the formula that
> works, and the pop stuff has very little acceptance here as
> witnessed by the attempts of KIIS to be less rythmic in the
> past. Today, they are consistently top 3 in the ratings, and
> have absolutely no reson to change.

Well, you do bring up good points, but would it really hurt to add some non urban hits? I don't think it would.
 
> > Honestly, I don't know where to begin, but I've been
> > listening to music in this market for over 24 years now,
> and
> > it's my opinion that the L.A. area stations have NEVER
> > sounded as boring and stale as they do now... Prime and
> > center as the main culprit has to be the megaconglomerate,
>
> > Clear Channel... they own 5 contemporary music stations, 4
>
> > of which I used to listen to quite a bit (KIIS, KYSR, KBIG
>
> > and KOST).
> >
> > In looking at the playlists and listening to these
> stations,
> > it's very obvious they are trying to keep them as separate
>
> > in sound as possible... Other than Kelly Clarkson, you'll
> > rarely hear another ARTIST played on all 4 stations...
> >
>
>
> > KIIS usually plays the current hits, but is VERY Urban
> > leaning and is very slow to add anyone with a pop song not
>
> > named Kelly or Gwen... good stuff like the almost top 10
> > dance leaning Natasha Bedingfield's "Unwritten" is being
> > ignored... they also NEVER played Nickelback's
> "Photograph"
> > despite it getting up to #3 in the nation...
> >
> When KIIS played a larger mix of pop/rock songs, they had
> some of the worst numbers they've ever had. They currently
> have some of their highest ratings in years by programming
> to the marketplace. They're almost a share ahead of Power
> 106... What's your point?
>
>
>
> > KYSR won't add a Kelly song until after KIIS has burned it
>
> > out and is super slow to add new music - they FINALLY
> added
> > James Blunt and Rob Thomas the past couple of weeks...
> they
> > only play about 10 currents... I hear the same recurrents
> > and gold over and over again there... B-O-R-I-N-G!!!
> >
>
> I won't defend "Star" other than to say they've been hurt by
> a combination of a number of things - including a lack of
> product, KDLD/KDLE, KBIG getting better and a host of other
> issues.

Jack FM probably hurt thme also.
>
>
> > KBIG still sounds as terrible as ever... attempting to mix
>
> > in different dance styles while not playing much current
> > stuff at all (they play Madonna's "Hung Up" but that's
> > all)...
>
> KBIG has increased their target demos significantly in the
> last year - and again they don't need to play new music -
> they win with their recurrents and gold. Again, great
> numbers and high revenue. What's the argument here?
>
>
> >
> > KOST... well as an AC they should sound the "least fresh"
> of
> > any of these stations, but they do actually add new music
> > every once in a while, and they do have a HUGE library of
> > gold which they play from... they are the only one of
> these
> > 4 stations I can even stand to listen to for any length of
>
> > time as they do seem to play a variety of stuff and aren't
>
> > afraid of new music... Ryan Cabrera and Carrie Underwood
> are
> > amongst the new artists which received airplay there and
> > nowhere else amongst their stations...
>
>
> It's #1 12+ this book (granted, thanks to Christmas), has a
> stellar on-air lineup - and is consistently a big biller.
> Case closed.

More importantly, they did well 25-54. Nothing is wrong with KOST.
 
> > >
> > KIIS 12+ numebrs are flat over the past year (despite
> > Power's fall from 1st to 8th)...
>
> Power is still #1 18-34, which is what they are about. And
> they and KIIS are off due to KXOL. These stations can not
> compete directly with a Spanglish format, so there is little
> to do. The market keeps on fragmenting.

I don't think John understands that 12+ numbers are not important at all. Its the key target demos, as you know.
>
> > and they are down the past
> > 6 months as is KYSR. Maybe you aren't looking at the same
>
> > numbers I am... I use those in R&R. KCBS has had little to
>
> > no effect on KYSR's 12+ numbers... KYSR also has EXACTLY
> the
> > same 12+ numbers now as they had a year ago...
>
> KCBS has had a huge effect on KYSR in the core 25-39 female
> demos they were after in the past. Let's see how Mike hadles
> this. They are defintely being squeezed, but adding more
> currents for a mostly 30+ demo is hardly the way to do it.
> >
> > KOST and KHHT... yes, those stations are up overall...
> > though KHHT did fall a couple spots in the last book...
> > KOST in particular seems to run fine on it's own and as
> I've
> > said earlier, they are THE ONLY ONE of the CC stations
> that
> > I listen to that even takes a chance on new music. They
> > played the Ryan Cabrera "True" and Carrie Underwood
> "Inside
> > Your Heaven" singles for example... KIIS played "True" too
>
> > but it was an almost unrecognizable mix... KOST takes some
>
> > chances and their consistently great numbers bear this
> > out... the other stations are way too safe and could
> really
> > get some better numbers if they were more aggressive in
> > their programming like KOST is.
>
>
> Most people, unfortunately for you, do not want lots of new
> music and could care less what is charting.

Very true. People don't want to hear a ton of unthamilar songs, otherwise they'll tune out.

John,

Most "regular" listeners I know, don't mind hearing the same songs over and over again. If they like the song and it is well know, they won't mind hearing a lot. You may thing LA radio has tight playlists, but regular listeners probably don't mind or even notice.
 
Re: KIIS

>
> Well, you do bring up good points, but would it really hurt
> to add some non urban hits? I don't think it would.

Remember, CHRs test their songs frequently if not constantly. If a song does not "test" after a certain number of weeks or plays, it gets nuked. It is not a hit unless the station's listeners like it.
>
 
Re: KIIS

> > Well, you do bring up good points, but would it really hurt
> > to add some non urban hits? I don't think it would.
>
> Remember, CHRs test their songs frequently if not
> constantly. If a song does not "test" after a certain number
> of weeks or plays, it gets nuked. It is not a hit unless the
> station's listeners like it.

David makes a good counterpoint here. The definition of a "hit" has to be based upon more than national chart status. If, as in Los Angeles, a CHR has to be heavy in Hispanic appeal, a song that appeals mainly to non-ethnic listeners is not going to be a "hit" on that CHR <u>even if it plays on other CHRs in other markets and achieves top-ten chart status.</u>

Step back and look at this objectively instead of subjectively and I think you'll see what we are saying.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: KIIS

> > > Well, you do bring up good points, but would it really
> hurt
> > > to add some non urban hits? I don't think it would.
> >
> > Remember, CHRs test their songs frequently if not
> > constantly. If a song does not "test" after a certain
> number
> > of weeks or plays, it gets nuked. It is not a hit unless
> the
> > station's listeners like it.
>
> David makes a good counterpoint here. The definition of a
> "hit" has to be based upon more than national chart status.
> If, as in Los Angeles, a CHR has to be heavy in Hispanic
> appeal, a song that appeals mainly to non-ethnic listeners
> is not going to be a "hit" on that CHR even if it plays on
> other CHRs in other markets and achieves top-ten chart
> status.
>
> Step back and look at this objectively instead of
> subjectively and I think you'll see what we are saying.
>

I totally understand what is being said here, but there's something being completely overlooked... and that is that you can't have accurate call-out numbers if your station isn't playing a song... KIIS plays Nickelback's "How You Remind Me" all of the time, yet they don't play "Photograph" which spent several weeks in the top 3 nationally. Why is that? Was it any worse or better of a song? Would it's test scores be any different? I doubt it. I have several hispanic friends and relatives and they like all kinds of music... a lot of them like oldies KRTH even and plenty of them like rock edged stuff.

The problem as I said earlier is that KIIS is VERY narrow at the moment and they have become VERY ARTIST based and not song based... they added the new Kelly Clarkson and Gwen Stefani songs far before the add dates despite neither being anywhere to as good as their previous hits... and now if you notice, both are falling big time there even though they are rising nationally... more than likely, low call out scores are the culprit... if they had taken the time to listen to these songs before they just blindly added them, then maybe there would have been some room for the Nickelbacks, Cascadas and James Blunts of the world... Also, why can't they add a song like Natasha Bedingfield's "Unwritten" which would fit in better with what they are playing then??? It's VERY obvious to me right now that the powers that be aren't interested in testing songs with anyone not in that all important 6-18 female demo... FYI, I am a member of their listener advisory board.

KIIS has always done best when it "plays all of the hits", right now it's not and looking at the narrowing of their playlist over that time, it's no wonder their Arbitrons are trending down.
 
Re: U guys R high

> As always, right on and well said. I second that emotion.
>
> It's always easy to piss & moan about the "conglomerates".
> "The suits", "the consultants", etc. It's the same old and
> tired droning on and on. If it sucks that bad, get an MP3
> player or Satellite and stop whining about something you
> can't control.
>
>
> > And you would have like 11 listeners in LA, man.
> >
> > This is not Clear Channel's fault. This whole complaint of
>
> > your is essentially "why don't they play more white music
> > for me" in a city that is decidedly ehtnic and rhythmic.
> >
> > If you want that kind of music, go to Minneapolis.
> >
>

Considering Clear Channel has NO CLUE about the L.A. market and what works and what doesn't work I think you BOTH are way off base here.
 
> > > >
> > > KIIS 12+ numebrs are flat over the past year (despite
> > > Power's fall from 1st to 8th)...
> >
> > Power is still #1 18-34, which is what they are about. And
>
> > they and KIIS are off due to KXOL. These stations can not
> > compete directly with a Spanglish format, so there is
> little
> > to do. The market keeps on fragmenting.
>
> I don't think John understands that 12+ numbers are not
> important at all. Its the key target demos, as you know.
> >
> > > and they are down the past
> > > 6 months as is KYSR. Maybe you aren't looking at the
> same
> >
> > > numbers I am... I use those in R&R. KCBS has had little
> to
> >
> > > no effect on KYSR's 12+ numbers... KYSR also has EXACTLY
>
> > the
> > > same 12+ numbers now as they had a year ago...
> >
> > KCBS has had a huge effect on KYSR in the core 25-39
> female
> > demos they were after in the past. Let's see how Mike
> hadles
> > this. They are defintely being squeezed, but adding more
> > currents for a mostly 30+ demo is hardly the way to do it.
>
> > >
> > > KOST and KHHT... yes, those stations are up overall...
> > > though KHHT did fall a couple spots in the last book...
>
> > > KOST in particular seems to run fine on it's own and as
> > I've
> > > said earlier, they are THE ONLY ONE of the CC stations
> > that
> > > I listen to that even takes a chance on new music. They
>
> > > played the Ryan Cabrera "True" and Carrie Underwood
> > "Inside
> > > Your Heaven" singles for example... KIIS played "True"
> too
> >
> > > but it was an almost unrecognizable mix... KOST takes
> some
> >
> > > chances and their consistently great numbers bear this
> > > out... the other stations are way too safe and could
> > really
> > > get some better numbers if they were more aggressive in
> > > their programming like KOST is.
> >
> >
> > Most people, unfortunately for you, do not want lots of
> new
> > music and could care less what is charting.
>
> Very true. People don't want to hear a ton of unthamilar
> songs, otherwise they'll tune out.
>
> John,
>
> Most "regular" listeners I know, don't mind hearing the same
> songs over and over again. If they like the song and it is
> well know, they won't mind hearing a lot. You may thing LA
> radio has tight playlists, but regular listeners probably
> don't mind or even notice.
>

Once again, your PERCEPTION of what people want to hear versus the REALITY of what they want to hear are two different things. Unfortunately, a lot of those in the industry share this false perception. Most regular listeners DON'T like to hear the same songs over and over... We have a piped in AC/Hot AC music mix at the office... and plenty of people there complain about hearing the same songs over and over. You go to some of the local music boards and it's the same thing... KZLA... they play the same songs over and over (even though nothing gets more than 6 spins a day there)... People complain about KIIS all of the time.. giving songs 90-105 spins a week is plain dumb. The only ones that care to hear songs that much are that all important 6-17 demo.

People have other options for music now and are tuning out in droves due to the LACK of variety available to them despite all of the stations out here... Fortunately for me, I live in the north end of L.A. county so the Ventura/Oxnard and Santa Barbara stations (those that actually know what a playlist is) make up the bulk of my listening... I have several friends that bought either IPODS or satellite radios over Christmas (a lot in reaction to KLZA's ill-advised foray into Christmas music)...

Another fallacy is that people will tune out if they hear something "unfamiliar". KOST got A TON of requests last year when they added Anna Nalick's "Breathe" and Rob Thomas' "Lonely No More"... If you spike a song, people are going to call if they like it and they are going to call if they don't like it... common sense dictates they will play the song more if people like it and less or not at all if they don't. Or look at Carrie Underwood's "Jesus, Take The Wheel" song... on Country KZLA, Whitney Allen has her Tuesday Test Drive feature where she spins a new songs, but doesn't say who it is until after the song is over and a commercial break is run... that song received a 98% approval rating.. and not surprisingly has now been the #1 Country song in the nation for 4 weeks running now...

It appears to me that many in the industry have a NARROW view of things... people really need to open their eyes and realize that people don't get all of their songs from the radio any more and as long as it continues down this road, radio will be listened to by fewer and fewer people as time goes on.
 
> > > > >
> > > > KIIS 12+ numebrs are flat over the past year (despite
> > > > Power's fall from 1st to 8th)...
> > >
> > > Power is still #1 18-34, which is what they are about.
> And
> >
> > > they and KIIS are off due to KXOL. These stations can
> not
> > > compete directly with a Spanglish format, so there is
> > little
> > > to do. The market keeps on fragmenting.
> >
> > I don't think John understands that 12+ numbers are not
> > important at all. Its the key target demos, as you know.
> > >
> > > > and they are down the past
> > > > 6 months as is KYSR. Maybe you aren't looking at the
> > same
> > >
> > > > numbers I am... I use those in R&R. KCBS has had
> little
> > to
> > >
> > > > no effect on KYSR's 12+ numbers... KYSR also has
> EXACTLY
> >
> > > the
> > > > same 12+ numbers now as they had a year ago...
> > >
> > > KCBS has had a huge effect on KYSR in the core 25-39
> > female
> > > demos they were after in the past. Let's see how Mike
> > hadles
> > > this. They are defintely being squeezed, but adding more
>
> > > currents for a mostly 30+ demo is hardly the way to do
> it.
> >
> > > >
> > > > KOST and KHHT... yes, those stations are up overall...
>
> > > > though KHHT did fall a couple spots in the last
> book...
> >
> > > > KOST in particular seems to run fine on it's own and
> as
> > > I've
> > > > said earlier, they are THE ONLY ONE of the CC stations
>
> > > that
> > > > I listen to that even takes a chance on new music.
> They
> >
> > > > played the Ryan Cabrera "True" and Carrie Underwood
> > > "Inside
> > > > Your Heaven" singles for example... KIIS played "True"
>
> > too
> > >
> > > > but it was an almost unrecognizable mix... KOST takes
> > some
> > >
> > > > chances and their consistently great numbers bear this
>
> > > > out... the other stations are way too safe and could
> > > really
> > > > get some better numbers if they were more aggressive
> in
> > > > their programming like KOST is.
> > >
> > >
> > > Most people, unfortunately for you, do not want lots of
> > new
> > > music and could care less what is charting.
> >
> > Very true. People don't want to hear a ton of unthamilar
> > songs, otherwise they'll tune out.
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Most "regular" listeners I know, don't mind hearing the
> same
> > songs over and over again. If they like the song and it is
>
> > well know, they won't mind hearing a lot. You may thing LA
>
> > radio has tight playlists, but regular listeners probably
> > don't mind or even notice.
> >
>
> Once again, your PERCEPTION of what people want to hear
> versus the REALITY of what they want to hear are two
> different things. Unfortunately, a lot of those in the
> industry share this false perception. Most regular
> listeners DON'T like to hear the same songs over and over...

Then why do stations with the tight playlists still seem to do well?

Some stations still do have tight playlists, but I think that radio will be getting more creative and there will be more variety due to the extra competition.

I know lots of "regular listeners" and every time a song they like comes on, even for the 1000th time, they're still happy to hear it.

It is true that regular listeners will get tired of the same songs, but they don't really care. Its only radio. WE the radio geeks care though.

> We have a piped in AC/Hot AC music mix at the office... and
> plenty of people there complain about hearing the same songs
> over and over. You go to some of the local music boards
> and it's the same thing... KZLA... they play the same songs
> over and over (even though nothing gets more than 6 spins a
> day there)... People complain about KIIS all of the time..
> giving songs 90-105 spins a week is plain dumb. The only
> ones that care to hear songs that much are that all
> important 6-17 demo.
>
> People have other options for music now and are tuning out
> in droves due to the LACK of variety available to them
> despite all of the stations out here... Fortunately for me,
> I live in the north end of L.A. county so the Ventura/Oxnard
> and Santa Barbara stations (those that actually know what a
> playlist is) make up the bulk of my listening... I have
> several friends that bought either IPODS or satellite radios
> over Christmas (a lot in reaction to KLZA's ill-advised
> foray into Christmas music)...
>
> Another fallacy is that people will tune out if they hear
> something "unfamiliar". KOST got A TON of requests last
> year when they added Anna Nalick's "Breathe" and Rob Thomas'
> "Lonely No More"... If you spike a song, people are going
> to call if they like it and they are going to call if they
> don't like it... common sense dictates they will play the
> song more if people like it and less or not at all if they
> don't. Or look at Carrie Underwood's "Jesus, Take The
> Wheel" song... on Country KZLA, Whitney Allen has her
> Tuesday Test Drive feature where she spins a new songs, but
> doesn't say who it is until after the song is over and a
> commercial break is run... that song received a 98% approval
> rating.. and not surprisingly has now been the #1 Country
> song in the nation for 4 weeks running now...
>
> It appears to me that many in the industry have a NARROW
> view of things... people really need to open their eyes and
> realize that people don't get all of their songs from the
> radio any more and as long as it continues down this road,
> radio will be listened to by fewer and fewer people as time
> goes on.
>

Folks in the radio industry are definitley aware of the fact that people get their songs from other sources such as iPODS, satellite radio, etc. and terrestrial radio is responding. I think your perception of people in the radio industry having narrow minds is incorrect.
 
Re: KIIS

> > > > Well, you do bring up good points, but would it really
>
> > hurt
> > > > to add some non urban hits? I don't think it would.
> > >
> > > Remember, CHRs test their songs frequently if not
> > > constantly. If a song does not "test" after a certain
> > number
> > > of weeks or plays, it gets nuked. It is not a hit unless
>
> > the
> > > station's listeners like it.
> >
> > David makes a good counterpoint here. The definition of a
>
> > "hit" has to be based upon more than national chart
> status.
> > If, as in Los Angeles, a CHR has to be heavy in Hispanic
> > appeal, a song that appeals mainly to non-ethnic listeners
>
> > is not going to be a "hit" on that CHR even if it plays on
>
> > other CHRs in other markets and achieves top-ten chart
> > status.
> >
> > Step back and look at this objectively instead of
> > subjectively and I think you'll see what we are saying.
> >
>
> I totally understand what is being said here, but there's
> something being completely overlooked... and that is that
> you can't have accurate call-out numbers if your station
> isn't playing a song... KIIS plays Nickelback's "How You
> Remind Me" all of the time, yet they don't play "Photograph"
> which spent several weeks in the top 3 nationally. Why is
> that? Was it any worse or better of a song? Would it's
> test scores be any different? I doubt it. I have several
> hispanic friends and relatives and they like all kinds of
> music... a lot of them like oldies KRTH even and plenty of
> them like rock edged stuff.
>
> The problem as I said earlier is that KIIS is VERY narrow at
> the moment and they have become VERY ARTIST based and not
> song based... they added the new Kelly Clarkson and Gwen
> Stefani songs far before the add dates despite neither being
> anywhere to as good as their previous hits... and now if you
> notice, both are falling big time there even though they are
> rising nationally... more than likely, low call out scores
> are the culprit... if they had taken the time to listen to
> these songs before they just blindly added them, then maybe
> there would have been some room for the Nickelbacks,
> Cascadas and James Blunts of the world... Also, why can't
> they add a song like Natasha Bedingfield's "Unwritten" which
> would fit in better with what they are playing then??? It's
> VERY obvious to me right now that the powers that be aren't
> interested in testing songs with anyone not in that all
> important 6-18 female demo... FYI, I am a member of their
> listener advisory board.
>
> KIIS has always done best when it "plays all of the hits",
> right now it's not and looking at the narrowing of their
> playlist over that time, it's no wonder their Arbitrons are
> trending down.
>
While KIIS was slightly off in Fall - they are still No. 1 in their target demo of women 18-34 - I don't know how much better you want them to do - and they are always top 3 or top 5 in persons 18-34 - so again when you say "does best when they play all the hits" - I don't know what you are referring to. They were No. 1 12+ two of the last three books - which was like the first time in over a decade -- you can't look at shares anymore - you have to look at rank - you can't compare KIIS to 1984.

KIIS is doing better now than they have in a long time.
 
Re: KIIS

> > > > Well, you do bring up good points, but would it really
>
> > hurt
> > > > to add some non urban hits? I don't think it would.
> > >
> > > Remember, CHRs test their songs frequently if not
> > > constantly. If a song does not "test" after a certain
> > number
> > > of weeks or plays, it gets nuked. It is not a hit unless
>
> > the
> > > station's listeners like it.
> >
> > David makes a good counterpoint here. The definition of a
>
> > "hit" has to be based upon more than national chart
> status.
> > If, as in Los Angeles, a CHR has to be heavy in Hispanic
> > appeal, a song that appeals mainly to non-ethnic listeners
>
> > is not going to be a "hit" on that CHR even if it plays on
>
> > other CHRs in other markets and achieves top-ten chart
> > status.
> >
> > Step back and look at this objectively instead of
> > subjectively and I think you'll see what we are saying.
> >
>
> I totally understand what is being said here, but there's
> something being completely overlooked... and that is that
> you can't have accurate call-out numbers if your station
> isn't playing a song... KIIS plays Nickelback's "How You
> Remind Me" all of the time, yet they don't play "Photograph"
> which spent several weeks in the top 3 nationally. Why is
> that? Was it any worse or better of a song? Would it's
> test scores be any different? I doubt it. I have several
> hispanic friends and relatives and they like all kinds of
> music... a lot of them like oldies KRTH even and plenty of
> them like rock edged stuff.
>
> The problem as I said earlier is that KIIS is VERY narrow at
> the moment and they have become VERY ARTIST based and not
> song based... they added the new Kelly Clarkson and Gwen
> Stefani songs far before the add dates despite neither being
> anywhere to as good as their previous hits... and now if you
> notice, both are falling big time there even though they are
> rising nationally... more than likely, low call out scores
> are the culprit... if they had taken the time to listen to
> these songs before they just blindly added them, then maybe
> there would have been some room for the Nickelbacks,
> Cascadas and James Blunts of the world... Also, why can't
> they add a song like Natasha Bedingfield's "Unwritten" which
> would fit in better with what they are playing then??? It's
> VERY obvious to me right now that the powers that be aren't
> interested in testing songs with anyone not in that all
> important 6-18 female demo... FYI, I am a member of their
> listener advisory board.
>
> KIIS has always done best when it "plays all of the hits",
> right now it's not and looking at the narrowing of their
> playlist over that time, it's no wonder their Arbitrons are
> trending down.
>



You have it 100% backwards, KIIS has always done WORST when they play "all of the hits". The worst KIIS ever did is shortly after their PD arrived from Boston. The station was way too whitebread for LA, they were jumping out of the box on acts like the Goo Goo Dolls and it was a total disaster.

For someone who claims to pay attention to things, how could you be so unaware of the huge ratings improvement KIIS got when they shifted in a rhythmic direction. Even if they are currently down slightly from their recent peak, KIIS is still far higher rated today than they were when they played "all the hits".

There is one thing I do agree with you on... Song Vs artist. On current based formats I think it's better to play a hot song from an artist no one ever heard of than a filler song follow up by a superstar artist.
 
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