Cleveland JACK FM Rumors Start Again

[lovethebiz]

Re: Cleveland JACK FM Rumors Start Again--and the State of Cleveland Rdaio PDs

Hey Nate...always enjoy reading your thoughts...I like Fig and Jen Toohey too, but they simply sound and are too young for DOK, IMHO. Besides, if I'm them I really rather not jock for DOK...think about it...you really don't get much of a chance to work on your "personality". It's all about smoothly segueing as much music as possible with weather and traffic. Frankly, I think Fig and Toohey could transition to Jack just fine and still be personalities and do real "shows". Besides, who would they replace? DOK's lineup is rock solid...real pros.
If I'm infinity, I don't touch DOK with a ten foot pole. It damn near took over MJI in the ratings...they're within an eyelash. Huge Huge Huge money maker. If any of their stations goes Jack, it's Q. Maybe NCX but I doubt it. If NCX goes Jack then you HAVE to change Q. Then you change Q to extreme and then extreme to classic rock ...You're talking a major format shakeup when it's absolutely unnecessary... would take quite a while for everyone to get used to. Ratings disaster.
I'm not a big fan of the Jack format either....flavor of the month so to speak. Sooner or later Jack PDs and LSMs will be saying...what demo do we target? We're all over the place. It was basically this kind of programming that lead to where we are today.


> > > I'd like Jen Toohey and John Conner to migrate to
> WDOK...
> > > maybe Fig to WXTM... but probably wouldn't happen. Bear
> in
> > > mind that when Baltimore's WQSR, Chicago's WJMK and New
> > > York's WCBS-FM all got hi"Jack"-ed, everyone was let go.
>
> >
> > Would their style be too (for lack of a better phrase
> here)
> > "upbeat" for WDOK? I dunno the answer, so I'm just
> asking.
> > WDOK did have Matt the Cat in afternoons for the longest
> > time (why'd they get rid of him?)
>
> I have no real idea. He was in AMD first; then moved to PMD
> after Trapper Jack arrived in 1994.
>
> He left at the same time Carolyn Carr came to host the 7-12
> slot. Ironically, she debuted on WDOK at the same time WLTF
> flailed away with "Deliah" for a few weeks. Yes, the very
> same Deliah that eventually replaced Carr in 1999!
>
> > > If Allan Fee gets to stay, there's something seriously
> wrong
> > > here. But he assuredly wouldn't be in AMD - the biggest
> > > flash of a PD's ego this side of an alleged
> "sports-talker"
> > > using THEIR PD as it's imaging voice
> >
> > If HE went to WDOK, that would be, to quote my
> girlfriend's
> > brother, "the pits". WDOK has a well-crafted,
> meticulously
> > researched format, doing a great service by keeping Majic
> in
> > check. It's essentially the Dave Popovich format book
> STILL
> > (almost 6 years after he left 102). Fee would be nothing
> > but trouble there--his act and programming skews too
> young,
> > and ineffective.
>
> I have no clue what his philosophy is at the Q. It appears
> to be a "Jack"-lite: no overall direction with the playlist,
> but, hell, let's play that same damn Lenny Kravitz or Goo
> Goo Dolls song over and over and over. A total mess.
>
> And let's not get started on how he took a decent AMD show
> into one of the worst radio shows that Cleveland's ever seen
> (by virtue of longetivity...)
>
> > > Just dreaming here... why not have Jim Davis program the
>
> > > soon-to-be "Jack"? I seriously would like to see how he
> > > would approach the format.
> >
> > I fear, Nate, that you and I are the only ones here who
> > would welcome that. Jim Davis is a great programmer, for
> > lots of variety formats--his WRMR at 850, and the latter
> > days at 1420, was a textbook way to add in new standards
> and
> > easy listening, as well as a decent crop of oldies and
> lost
> > gold, to what's perceived as a stagnant format.
> >
> > But, seeing as how Davis is now, unceremoniously working
> for
> > himself (and Ron Trycznski, of the Original Mattress
> > Factory, who pays for the airtiem at 1300), it shows that
> > todays radio management hasn't been willing to reach out
> to
> > the successful programmers in markets.
> >
> > Let's look at the PDs now sitting on the sidelines, all
> > successful:
> >
> > John Gorman
> > Denny Sanders (alright, he's making mega bucks as a Telos
> > exec)
> > Jim Davis
> > Eric Stevens
> > Lynn Tolliver (he's as PD in Youngstown, granted)
>
> Probably not for long. WRTK, according to OA, is being sold
> to the Glunt group.
>
> > And that's just off the top of my head. Gorman would be
> > prime pickings for a Jack PD, except:
> >
> > (a) he hates the format
> > (b) he likes personalities
> > (c) he's a freethinker, and
> > (d) he'd never step foot in an Infinity building.
> >
> > But on paper, who else has had experience with the core
> Jack
> > music: oldies (WMJI), 70s-80s classic rock (WMMS), and 90s
>
> > rock (WMMS-The Next Generation). If it wasn't such a dud
> > flash-in-the-pan format, I'd nominate John Gorman as Jack
> > PD. But Jack has no sustaining power, and I have plans
> for
> > Gorman to PD my oldies station after I win the Mega
> Millions
> > jackpot.
>
> I agree. Oh, if only I could set up a betting line on "how
> long will Jack last?"
>
> Jack is nothing more that a gimmick - especially considering
> the great stations that Infinity has bludgoned on a
> nationwide basis to bring it on.
>
> - nate81
>

 

[NeilParks]

Based on the recent "no rules" promotion by 106 FM that would be my first guess. (Unless it has to be an Infinity station.)

 

[scoob]

> Based on the recent "no rules" promotion by 106 FM that
> would be my first guess. (Unless it has to be an Infinity
> station.)
>

Um, you're not from here are you?

 

[OldAkronite]

OA's Money Is On...

...what my bud RMH says.

> My money goes on WQAL. It could be WDOK too. It will be in
> that shack at 26th and East St Clair known as One Radio
> Lane.

Let's put it this way - when I took my little excursion out east and northeast today, I set up my automatic recorder on my computer to record 104.1, just in case they flipped today.

That's not based on any inside information...that's just MY bet.

-OA<P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[nate]

>
> Yeah, it'd be great to see a station come in here and pick
> up a non-generic moniker that actually has something to do
> with the city. I think WMMS is the only one here imgaging
> that has anything remotely to do with the area.
"The Buzzard" is not related to the Hinckley buzzards, it goes back to an old ad showing WMMS hovering over the death of thier competition...at least that is the story I have always heard.


>
> AAA is such a cool format, and can be done in so many
> different ways. WNCX could pull it off and still mix in
> some of the classic rock artists that are currently on its
> playlist...it would make the transition that much easier.
> I'm sure WMMS would jump in and adjust its playlist a little
> bit to fill in the void left behind. Only problem would be
> making sure the "new" WNCX didn't stray too far into WDOK
> territory.

try KFOG (they stream at kfog.com) fantastic AAA station out of San Francisco. Something like this could work here.
>

 

[timbuc2]

> Also, while we're throwing names around... How about "Drew?"
> Okay, never mind.

Or how about "Grover", named after Grover Cleaveland? No, okay, let's move on.

I would keep DOK as is. On 104.1 you have 104X WEXN, on 98.5 you have some sort of AAA (named the coast or the river), and on 92.3 you have the "insert name here" variety hits format.

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by timbuc2 on 07/12/05 04:12 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[nate81]

> > Yeah, it'd be great to see a station come in here and pick
> > up a non-generic moniker that actually has something to do
> > with the city. I think WMMS is the only one here imgaging
> > that has anything remotely to do with the area.
>
> "The Buzzard" is not related to the Hinckley buzzards, it
> goes back to an old ad showing WMMS hovering over the death
> of thier competition...at least that is the story I have
> always heard.

It may have had a double meaning - hovering over the dead competition - and Cleveland itself.

I remember John Gorman explaning this by saying something to the extent of, 'What else would you see flying over Cleveland anyway?' (I wish I still had the complete quote...) Remember, it was 1974 when the mascot was unveiled...

- nate81<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partership Representative
Student Senate
Lorain County Community College, Elyria, Ohio

LCCC Radio - The Duck</P>

 

[nate81]

> > Also, while we're throwing names around... How about
> "Drew?"
> > Okay, never mind.
>
> Or how about "Grover", named after Grover Cleaveland? No,
> okay, let's move on.

You could try Bob - for Bob Hope. Or "HopeFM" - and image it as, "Ya gotta have Hope"

> I would keep DOK as is. On 104.1 you have 104X WEXN, on
> 98.5 you have some sort of AAA (named the coast or the
> river), and on 92.3 you have the "insert name here" variety
> hits format.

I'd go with that, with or without a 98.5 change. But the likelihood of this EVER taking place is nil.

- nate81<P ID="signature">______________
Nathan Obral
University Partership Representative
Student Senate
Lorain County Community College, Elyria, Ohio

LCCC Radio - The Duck</P>

 

[network]

>
> You could try Bob - for Bob Hope. Or "HopeFM" - and image it
> as, "Ya gotta have Hope"

Hey, I don't Salem would be happy about someone else stomping onto their "territory"! haha

We'd be up to a 3rd station like this, wouldn't we?

 

[network]

Reliable Sources?

> This time, it's Radio Business Report weighing in on the
> matter. In RBR's morning newsletter, they hear Infinity will
> "soon flip" one of its Cleveland FMs to the eclectic format
> otherwise known as "Variety Hits" or "Adult Hits".
>
> RBR believes the "iPod on shuffle" format will land at
> either WQAL or WDOK, though it's tough to say whether
> they're getting this information from their sources, or are
> just guessing based on the format composition of Infinity's
> stations in the market. Their phrase: "We would estimate
> WQAL or WDOK."

I've been gauging people's responses since you first started this thread and I can't believe (well, yeah I can ), that no one has questioned how they came to this assumption.

As you quoted them "We would estimate..." So, what's behind that to give their assumption any credibility whatsoever? "How soon" is soon? Fall book? January? Within 12 months? They heard it from who? No one, maybe? Have they taken guesses at other markets and if so, how well did they do on those? Hey, I hear Clear Channel doesn't have oldies-based formats in the forecast for more than another few years, but I certainly don't have anything to back that up, outside of "what I've heard".

Personally, as soon as I read that, they lost all credibility and I considered it a bunch of crap, as far as it relates to those two stations in general. They are aware that Infinity has 2 more stations that aren't performing as well as WDOK and WQAL, aren't they? For them to even "estimate" WDOK flipping is nothing short of fall-on-the-floor hilarious (and stupid). Anyone who would even think that doesn't know the market at all (or even pays attention, for that matter). That would probably be one of the biggest mistakes in this market.

Yes, even bigger than abandoning CHR on WZJM and flipping it to 'Jammin' Oldies' back in 1999.

As much as everyone else seems quick to throw WQAL out with the trash, I am still confident that this station will not be touched. People need to put their preferences aside for a second and look at the stations in this market and their demographics. As I've said before "this ain't rocket science." The fact is, Q104 has improved immensely since focusing on their "90's and Now" positioner. They're a very strong biller for Infinity and have performed better (where it matters!) since the tweak. Outside of AM drive, they've got a great sounding and solid line-up. They've really come a long way over the past year-and-some-months. And just because they're doing their "Whatever! Weekends" should not be taken as an indication they are going to flip (but some of you were suckered into thinking that was going to happen! LOL). It's the weekend -- doing specialy programming on a weekend isn't new, ya know.

For this RBR to not even recognize that WNCX will be losing Stern very soon & the station's format future being up-in-the-air after Stern leaves, it just proves even more how clueless this group (or whoever they are) is in their 'estimation'. Same goes for WXTM. WMMS continues to spank them (although I don't see Infinity toying with WXTM because we have two rockers in this market that lean slightly different directions musically). THE most vulnerable station in the Infinity cluster, IMO, is WNCX. But even then, I would guess that Infinity might wait to see how WNCX performs post-Stern before changing anything, given the history of WNCX in this market. But then again, I am not privvy to their billing, so maybe Stern is keeping them afloat. I dunno.

I also think some of the posts thinking Infinity is going to swap around frequencies is getting a little ahead of the game. Uprooting WDOK and WQAL would not be beneficial at all -- in fact, it *would* hurt them. Period. It would be interesting to see what people's reasons are for even suggesting swapping frequencies.

This RBR needs to back up their assumptions with a little meat. Until then, it's just another group of people tossing in their worthless $.02 on this "JACK"/Variety Hits thing -- and give absolutely nothing to back it up.

(EDIT: corrected typos)

 

[NeilParks]

Could 106 head Infinity off at the pass?

> > Based on the recent "no rules" promotion by 106 FM that
> > would be my first guess. (Unless it has to be an Infinity
>
> > station.)
> >
>
> Um, you're not from here are you?
>

I guess I did not make my point clear.

Obviously if "Jack" or "ipod shuffle" is a trademark of Infinity then 106 is not eligible.

But if it's just the idea of a variety-rock format, that's where 106 seemed to be heading, and it could perhaps flip completely to such a format before one of the Infinity group gets around to it.

 

[ATyler]

Re: Reliable Sources?

> I've been gauging people's responses since you first started
> this thread and I can't believe (well, yeah I can ), that
> no one has questioned how they came to this assumption.
>
> As you quoted them "We would estimate..." So, what's behind
> that to give their assumption any credibility whatsoever?
> "How soon" is soon? Fall book? January? Within 12 months?
> They heard it from who? No one, maybe? Have they taken
> guesses at other markets and if so, how well did they do on
> those? Hey, I hear Clear Channel doesn't have oldies-based
> formats in the forecast for more than another few years, but
> I certainly don't have anything to back that up, outside of
> "what I've heard".
>
> Personally, as soon as I read that, they lost all
> credibility and I considered it a bunch of crap, as far as
> it relates to those two stations in general. They are aware
> that Infinity has 2 more stations that are performing as
> well as WDOK and WQAL, aren't they? For them to even
> "estimate" WDOK flipping is nothing short of
> fall-on-the-floor hilarious. Anyone who would even think
> that doesn't know the market at all (or even pays attention,
> for that matter). That would probably be one of the biggest
> mistakes in this market.
>
> Yes, even bigger than abandoning CHR on WZJM and flipping it
> to 'Jammin' Oldies' back in 1999.
>
> As much as everyone else seems quick to throw WQAL out with
> the trash, I am still confident that this station will not
> be touched. People need to put their preferences aside for
> a second and look at the stations in this market and their
> demographics. As I've said before "this ain't rocket
> science." The fact is, Q104 has improved immensely since
> focusing on their "90's and Now" positioner. Their still a
> very strong biller for Infinity and have performed better
> since the tweak. Outside of AM drive, they've got a great
> sounding and solid line-up. They've really come a long way
> over the past year-and-some-months. And just because
> they're doing their "Whatever! Weekends" should not be taken
> as an indication they are going to flip (but some of you
> were suckered into thinking that was going to happen! LOL)
>
> For this RBR to not even recognize that WNCX will be losing
> Stern very soon & the station's format future being
> up-in-the-air after Stern leaves, just proves even more how
> clueless this group (or whoever they are) is in their
> 'estimation'. Same goes for WXTM. WMMS continues to spank
> them (although I don't see Infinity toying with WXTM because
> we have two rockers in this market that lean slightly
> different directions musically). THE most vulnerable
> station in the Infinity cluster, IMO, is WNCX. But even
> then, I would guess that Infinity might wait to see how WNCX
> performs post-Stern before changing anything, given the
> history of WNCX in this market. But then again, I am not
> privvy to their billing, so maybe Stern is keeping them
> afloat. I dunno.
>
> I also think some of the posts thinking Infinity is going to
> swap around frequencies is getting a little ahead of the
> game. Uprooting WDOK and WQAL would not be beneficial at
> all -- in fact, it could hurt them.
>
> This RBR needs to back up their assumptions with a little
> meat. Until then, it's just another group of people tossing
> in their 2 cents on something they have nothing to back it
> up yet.


VERY well said, my friend... particularly the points that you made about WQAL. I've been trying to make those points for several months whenever it gets brought up.
<P ID="signature">______________
Aaron Tyler
Afternoons / MD
WVZA / Marion - Carbondale, IL
www.kissfm927.com

Weekends / Swing
KSLZ / St. Louis
WAKZ / Youngstown, OH
</P>

 

[OldAkronite]

Re: Reliable Sources?

> VERY well said, my friend... particularly the points that
> you made about WQAL. I've been trying to make those points
> for several months whenever it gets brought up.

I'm also having a little trouble grappling with the dismantling of Q104 for JACK FM, though the killing of oldies WCBS-FM in New York would tend to make one believe that Infinity could do it.

I don't know what kind of sources RBR has...it was just odd that it came up again after we knocked this around after the WCBS/WJMK flips. It's been real quiet for the past few weeks, and all of a sudden, RBR's beating this drum. SOMEONE'S gotta be whispering it their ear. The question is...how well connected is that "someone"?

And I still can't get out of my head the likelihood that 92.3's format moves down to displace 98.5, perhaps when Stern's no longer heard on the station. Whether that's connected to any of this is a guess I'm not making right now.

-OA <P ID="signature">______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a></P>

 

[JerryStevens]

Re: Reliable Sources?

"This RBR needs to back up their assumptions with a little meat. Until then, it's just another group of people tossing in their worthless $.02 on this "JACK"/Variety Hits thing -- and give absolutely nothing to back it up.
EDIT: corrected typos)"

I have nothing to add to or substantiate the "Jack Rumor" but I have observed before that radio rumors are self-perpetuating. First a trade publication will print a story without giving any source. And then, another trade publication or even general news outlet will write the story and cite the first trade publication as its source! And around it goes without any substance to it at all. Seems like it would be awfully easy for an industry insider to plant a story with one of these trade publications. Guess they gotta fill space.<P ID="signature">______________
Jerry

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts" - late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan</P>

 

[adz]

> )
> >
> >
> >
> > > Kick the Hot AC/Jack/Play Whatever format back down to
> 92.3

Infinity is not going to exile ''Jack'' to a city grade signal..its aimed at the burbs, and the signal isnt getting there anytime soon..

What does Infinity do with Rover's Morning Glory if 92.3 flips? The synidcation deal complicates things here..


> Why anyone would mess with WDOK is beyond me, seeing as if
> it is a ratings/money monster. What about switching WNCX
> from classic rock to a more AAA/Singer Songwriter based
> format. You could package the modern rock and jack together
> aimed towards the 18-35 and then package WDOK and WNCX
> towards the older crowd.

That depends on whether or not ''Diamond Dave'' inherits an empty Stern Studio if Howard indeed gets cut loose after Labor Day..Infinty may have already made its call, and you'll see pieces of the puzzle fall into place when Stern finally heads to Sirus..
>