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Columbus June PPMs
- Thread starter Nu_Roo_2
- Start date
billf82 said:
WTVN wanted to be a 50 KW "blowtorch." but lost out in court to the NIMBW group back in 2002.
WTVN-AM ready to power towers
Station to boost nighttime signal to 50,000 watts
Business First of Columbus - December 19, 1997 by Kathy Showalter
The Giant wants a radio signal to match its nickname.
CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY:
http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/1997/12/22/story1.html?t=printable
This one from 2002:
WTVN loses bid to relocate towers - Columbus - Business First
http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2002/05/13/daily29.html
May 15, 2002 - Columbus, OH News - View Daily Local Business News, Resources & more in Columbus, Ohio.
Interesting discussion and a lot of good points from several people about TVN's decline. One factor right off the top: Their audience shrinks as people die. You don't hit 50 and suddenly start listening to AM radio because your parents did. So fewer new people are coming on board and every day a long-time TVN listener dies. It's just the way it is. That's why Bill O'Reilly has added Jesse Watters to his show--trying to get an influx of younger viewers because they have to.
Secondly, political discussions are getting boring and part of it is because it's the 2nd term of a president. Same as with W's second term, even those who like Obama are growing weary and those who dislike him feel helpless and it just isn't worth getting riled up about. It would help if we limited presidents to one 6-year term, but that's another discussion.
Thirdly, satellite radio and the economic rebound. Everybody I know who has purchased a new car in the last couple of years (myself included) is impressed with music on satellite radio. Satellite radio is simply part of the new car purchase and easily becomes "a way of life" when you're in it. Your car radio is now like cable-TV--more choices than you want or need but when you settle into the 5 or 6 you like they are all better than listening to someone talk about Obama, which takes us back to the previous point. And many of the new car buyers are over 50--so TVN takes the hit. That also speaks to the shorter attention span that even us older folks have now compared to 20 years ago. We talk about the younger sets having short attention spans but it has filtered upward as well.
Secondly, political discussions are getting boring and part of it is because it's the 2nd term of a president. Same as with W's second term, even those who like Obama are growing weary and those who dislike him feel helpless and it just isn't worth getting riled up about. It would help if we limited presidents to one 6-year term, but that's another discussion.
Thirdly, satellite radio and the economic rebound. Everybody I know who has purchased a new car in the last couple of years (myself included) is impressed with music on satellite radio. Satellite radio is simply part of the new car purchase and easily becomes "a way of life" when you're in it. Your car radio is now like cable-TV--more choices than you want or need but when you settle into the 5 or 6 you like they are all better than listening to someone talk about Obama, which takes us back to the previous point. And many of the new car buyers are over 50--so TVN takes the hit. That also speaks to the shorter attention span that even us older folks have now compared to 20 years ago. We talk about the younger sets having short attention spans but it has filtered upward as well.
del_griffith said:
Del: Thanks for the compliment on my post and good point on wondering which program block is dragging them down, but I think it’s more than one block at this point. What is happening is like when you’re chopping down a tree. You take a swing of the ax, and the tree doesn’t topple right away, but take enough swings and sooner or later it loses enough structural integrity that it falls over.
So you start with a milquetoast market with kind of a progressive streak, but mostly in a good way. Add a bunch of people who grew up in Democrat households in NE Ohio, WV and Western PA. It’s also a market that is white and pink collar, full of government and creative class workers, and a little better educated than the average market it’s size. That alone makes this not the best market for conservative talk radio as it is currently constituted.
Then you start swinging an ax at all the full service elements that caused the station to be in the Top 3 for as long as anybody can remember:
1. Ax local talent or replace with journeyman talent - Joel Riley aka the Trent Dilfer of morning men; (Today Joel was talking about how his dad was always a “Ford Guy” and how his brother amazingly is into “Mopar”. Breathtakingly compelling conversation - truly cowtown stuff.)
2. Ax the news department.
3. Ax traffic.
4. Go heavy on syndication that plays more to the red state voter in a market that isn't loyal to either party for long.
5. Go heavy on paid shills, aka boring mutual fund shows.
Big Bear did things the same way. They started with Number 1 market share, then the banker guys bought them out. They started axing the Big Bear bakery, Borden milk products, quality meats and produce. They sold shelf space. They cut the help and raised the prices at the same time … one ax swing at a time until the entire operation fell.
del_griffith said:
Check out this summary of the recent article from Sean Trende on this subject. (Trende is a nationally known political number cruncher who writes for RealClearPolitics.com and he lives in Delaware County.)
http://washingtonexaminer.com/econo...reform-will-boost-gops-future/article/2533017
I don’t agree with everything in that article, but I think this definitely is the roadmap to attract the Reagan Democrat voter who has no love for either big government, government unions or Wall Street. And again, this is where the talk radio sweet spot is IMO.
Remember, for compelling radio you have to have something to make fun of or rant about occasionally … I think you have to have some kind of a boogieman.
That said, though you are correct about the rest: People want cuts as long as they don’t have to wait in line at the airport. Nonetheless, deficits aren’t free … they ARE being paid for because as each year passes the dollar devalues more and more. That’s why a Wendy’s combo used to be $3.29 and why it’s $5.60 today. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
knowbetter said:
I think it still goes back to the quality of the air talent. I like their Ohio State coverage, especially Earle Bruce’s feistyness and Jeff Rapp’s upbeat style. If only the rest of the day could be so interesting to listen to.
Nu_Roo_2 said:
You make a good point that the Christian angle is a bit shopworn both politically and in terms of it being attractive on the radio. That’s why I believe Glenn Beck is such a turn-off anymore … and I am a reasonably observant Catholic myself. Again, fighting the battles of the last generation and not so relevant to today, at least not on talk radio.
For me, Barry drones on and on. Nothing compelling about him at all.
=====
del_griffith said:
del_griffith said:
I like what Ken Broo does on the weekends … a straight show about the Reds is kind of a snoozer. I like the fact that he plays significant segments of 80’s pop music, talks about the songs and the bands of the era. I’m not a big baseball fan, but I do tend to like his taste in 80’s music when I’m flipping the dial.
I also wonder if syndicated talk might work better if you had a better chance to interact. I wonder if the format could be changed so that local stations could cut away to give local callers a chance to respond.
Back to Limbaugh ... I have a couple of comments to make about him and why I think listening to him isn't the same as it used to be.
1. I used to love the tempo of his show. It had kind of an upbeat tempo to it like a Top-40 radio station.
2. He was the most fun when to listen to when he would rant against everybody. He was funny picking on Ted Kennedy ... and just as funny picking on Bush 41 and Perot. When he stopped doing that is when he stopped being entertaining ...
3. Rush still served a valuable purpose in that he used to take the news of the day and provide his own slant, which often made very good points. Today, Rush is not as compelling to listen to because the various blogs that exist over the internet have supplanted him and most of the others. I've found that most of them seem to go to Drudge, Real Clear Politics, InstaPundit and a few others and basically spit out the same things they read over there.
4. Rush has blown too many things, analytically speaking. In particular, I started noticing this when he blew the analysis of the California energy shortages/price spikes. He blamed all the usual suspects, the EPA, the greens, regulators, no new power plants, etc. when it all turned out to be a good old fashioned fraud. Rush also had the same thing to say about $4 gas prices at one point ... again, 20% or 30% of the price is a function of Wall Street. (Marathon CEO Gary Hemminger and Rupert Murdoch say the same thing.)
In other words, people spin their wheels so that the hedge fund investors can get rich ...
5. Advertising for suspect products. This is not limited to Rush, but when I hear gold investments, tax services, and herbal supplements being advertised, this does not give me a lot of confidence in the show.
6. Rush as a 60-year old established personality simply does not have the spunk of a 40-year old.
7. This probably relates more to Beck, but why would I want to become part of some "movement" staged by someone who makes money off of it? I personally don't like being used by others to make a profit off of me. I find it repugnant that people are actually stupid enough to spend money going to rallies in Washington or Texas when commercial interests benefit. I feel like people are being raped.
8. Three hour monologues have gotten boring. Even more boring when you have four daily, syndicated three-hour monologues. Time to start interviewing guests who know something or actually have something interesting to say.
I can probably come up with a few others if I put my mind to it, but I'l let others give their thoughts.
I think if I had to sum things up, I used to be a big radio fan when I was a kid - I mean total radio junkie, and even when talk radio was at it's peak. I was attracted to the medium for one reason and one reason only: it was entertaining.
Where is the spontaneity at these days? Where is the entertainment value?
1. I used to love the tempo of his show. It had kind of an upbeat tempo to it like a Top-40 radio station.
2. He was the most fun when to listen to when he would rant against everybody. He was funny picking on Ted Kennedy ... and just as funny picking on Bush 41 and Perot. When he stopped doing that is when he stopped being entertaining ...
3. Rush still served a valuable purpose in that he used to take the news of the day and provide his own slant, which often made very good points. Today, Rush is not as compelling to listen to because the various blogs that exist over the internet have supplanted him and most of the others. I've found that most of them seem to go to Drudge, Real Clear Politics, InstaPundit and a few others and basically spit out the same things they read over there.
4. Rush has blown too many things, analytically speaking. In particular, I started noticing this when he blew the analysis of the California energy shortages/price spikes. He blamed all the usual suspects, the EPA, the greens, regulators, no new power plants, etc. when it all turned out to be a good old fashioned fraud. Rush also had the same thing to say about $4 gas prices at one point ... again, 20% or 30% of the price is a function of Wall Street. (Marathon CEO Gary Hemminger and Rupert Murdoch say the same thing.)
In other words, people spin their wheels so that the hedge fund investors can get rich ...
5. Advertising for suspect products. This is not limited to Rush, but when I hear gold investments, tax services, and herbal supplements being advertised, this does not give me a lot of confidence in the show.
6. Rush as a 60-year old established personality simply does not have the spunk of a 40-year old.
7. This probably relates more to Beck, but why would I want to become part of some "movement" staged by someone who makes money off of it? I personally don't like being used by others to make a profit off of me. I find it repugnant that people are actually stupid enough to spend money going to rallies in Washington or Texas when commercial interests benefit. I feel like people are being raped.
8. Three hour monologues have gotten boring. Even more boring when you have four daily, syndicated three-hour monologues. Time to start interviewing guests who know something or actually have something interesting to say.
I can probably come up with a few others if I put my mind to it, but I'l let others give their thoughts.
I think if I had to sum things up, I used to be a big radio fan when I was a kid - I mean total radio junkie, and even when talk radio was at it's peak. I was attracted to the medium for one reason and one reason only: it was entertaining.
Where is the spontaneity at these days? Where is the entertainment value?
billf82 said:
I read somewhere that because of the directional signal, their night pattern is effectively at 20,000 kw at night, so that kind of is true.
gabigley1 said:
The 50 kw pattern was only going to be at night. They would continue to run 5 kw during the day. I always wondered how well that was going to work since the daytime signal was also going to move to the Pickaway County site. It seems to me they would have lost coverage in Delaware County, Marion and Mansfield during the day, which is more important (and more lucrative) than the areas south of here.
D
del_griffith
Guest
The Business First article from 1997 says they would have used the current site as their day site and also as a back up for night. So daytime wouldn't have moved to Pickaway County. If I recall, that's what the CP said on the FCC website when it was a potential project.
Here is the 1999 WTVN CP to operate 50 KW Nighttime from Pickaway County:
http://licensing.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/Auth_Files/257571.pdf
http://licensing.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/Auth_Files/257571.pdf
del_griffith said:
That to the best of my knowledge is correct. They'd have been foolish to go directional daytime from south of Circleville. The main lobe over the city wouldn't be much better than their current daytime blanketing of all of central Ohio.
Monkey, those were some great and well-thought out posts. I will say some of my friends who rarely listened to AM radio when we were growing up (I'm 35 and the people I'm mentioning are a few years older and younger than me) listen more to 610 and 700 now because tastes and needs change. Mostly it's for sports talk, but also for information. Around here, 610 is still the go-to news station for so many despite the shameful gutting of their news department.
I'm old enough to remember when Steve Cannon was live and local overnight, and so was the news 24/7 with the likes of Sally Wagner, Don Alexander and the guy who did morning news with Sally Wagner (of course I can't remember his name now). For a while, AM radio was all we got in our family car, so I have more tolerance and affinity for the band than many my age. I think nothing of listening to AM, whereas much of my brethren doesn't give it a second thought.
The big AM stations will survive on their heritage, but they have to continue to put out a solid product and not give in to corporate cookie-cutter crap. WLW and WGN are two of my favorite stations because of their local commitment (and I happen to root for teams on those stations).
As for Ken Broo, his show is a must-listen. Perfect for his weekend time slots and it's obvious he has fun with the show.
C
cameheretosaythis
Guest
Despite the gutting of the newsroom, 610's news offering is still good. With traffic back locally, weather and sports, their service elements are carrying them. It's the talk show side of things that is hurting.
Riley isn't morning host material. Corby's show is just tired. Glenn, Rush, and Sean are all still banging the conservative drum and that's geting old. Not sure if Metzold and Sterling are the answer, but there is a refreshing nature about the station when there are fill-in hosts.
Riley isn't morning host material. Corby's show is just tired. Glenn, Rush, and Sean are all still banging the conservative drum and that's geting old. Not sure if Metzold and Sterling are the answer, but there is a refreshing nature about the station when there are fill-in hosts.
D
del_griffith
Guest
I think there are a number of factors, but my gut is certain dayparts are hurting more than others in TVN's downward trend. Without the ability to see those, we don't know if it's the syndicated shows, the local shows or the whole pie. My guess is it's the syndicated shows more than anything else as the trend across the nation overall sees stations that carry these shows for the most part are down, whether they have local elements or not.
cameheretosaythis said:
1. WTVN's Cincinnati anchors don't bother me as much as the fact that there are no longer any "reporters" over there. I remember being at an east side fire in 2006 and WTVN was right there along with the Dispatch and the TV stations. It just isn't the same coverage anymore, though Ken Stevens does an excellent job.
2. CC had enough wisdom to send Bill Wills from WLW over to WTAM when they needed a morning guy. Jerry Thomas' son stepped in at WKRC. WTVN keeps throwing Joel at us hoping he will eventually get traction. Not happening.
3. I wonder if they could hire Dave Kaylor, Bob Hetherington or Pete Scovill to give them something to do in the mornings.
4. I like Sterling when he's hot, but he's too inconsistent. When he's having a bad day, he's awful. I kind of like the idea of Corby in the morning and Sterling in the afternoon, but he may be too "alternative" for drive time. Joe Bradley cackles too much.
5. Maetzold doesn't have a great voice so he is tough for me to listen to in long doses. He drones on a little too much when he's alone.
I just thought of another person they could plug in over at WTVN ... what about Michael Allardyce aka Michael O'Malley?
An extra $80k every year (or whatever is the going rate) part time three hours a day, a known name, known talent, wouldn't really have to really worry about ratings or show prep.
Proven talent that could carry a show. Might even have the nostalgic weight of a Bob Conners.
Free back-door advertising for his real estate company by virtue of being on the air.
An extra $80k every year (or whatever is the going rate) part time three hours a day, a known name, known talent, wouldn't really have to really worry about ratings or show prep.
Proven talent that could carry a show. Might even have the nostalgic weight of a Bob Conners.
Free back-door advertising for his real estate company by virtue of being on the air.
Corby is an enigma to me. They guy has a great voice and engaging personality but he clearly puts as little effort into his show as possible, yet has been wildly successful. And as he has gotten older he's slowed down--it takes a long time for him to get thoughts out--Sterling is going a thousand miles per hour by comparison and that's what you need in the morning. Corby sounds like he's struggling with his reading glasses and inhaling one large breath of air and starting loudly and slowly winding down as his breath expires. Then another big breath and loud talking that winds down again. That won't work while I'm sitting in traffic at 6:30 in the morning and it's baffling to me how it works at 4:30 in the afternoon. As was mentioned before, he sounds tired--like he has his chin resting on his hand and he'd rather be anywhere else. He's got all the tools--personality and intelligence and radio skills to do it all--just doesn't seem to have the motivation. Having said that, if he is where he wants to be he played it just right and I admire and congratulate him for it.
D
del_griffith
Guest
I've always seen Corby as the guy who always is at the same stool at the corner of the bar at the same bar everyday. Everybody loves him. He can tell a great story. Is knowledgeable. Can talk sports. Tells a few jokes. Talks about current events in a knowledgeable manner. Can be sarcastic and appropriately cynical when necessary. And when smoking was allowed, had a cigarette going in the ash tray........all the time.
But yeah, I get the impression that he's kind of tired of it (maybe bored is the better word) and probably tired of the corporate crap.
But yeah, I get the impression that he's kind of tired of it (maybe bored is the better word) and probably tired of the corporate crap.
del_griffith said:
New report from Arbitron says "Public radio’s popularity among younger audiences continues to grow—it reached record numbers of 18-24 Men and 25-34 Men in Spring 2012, and the medium reaches over 17% of older men." And over half of public radio share is from News/Talk. Commercial talk should take notice (though maybe only FM?).
http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/PublicRadioToday2013_ExecutiveSummary.pdf
So, I guess nobody thinks much of my idea of "O'Malley in the Morning, the Breakfast Square" on WTVN? If you feel sorry for Joel, maybe he can still be the producer.
Bob Hetherington? Pete Scovill (is he still around)? Dave Kaylor?
I could see any of them doing what Bob Conners used to do.
Bob Hetherington? Pete Scovill (is he still around)? Dave Kaylor?
I could see any of them doing what Bob Conners used to do.
towercity said:
Sterling is just too weird for the morning. Don't get me wrong, I like weird and I like Sterling, but can you imagine him doing serious interviews in the morning with all the tangents he goes on. It would be a hoot, but I don't think that's what people want from that block.
del_griffith said:
He's always worked in corporate radio, though, from the WNCI days with Nationwide. Maybe a better way of putting it might be that he's tired of working for over-indebted corporations without any money.
Nu_Roo_2 said:
Public radio is great ... I am also a big fan of NPR, but I also like some good old fashioned entertainment too.
Off topic, but I was at the gym this evening and noticed a lot of static on the FM stations too.
Can't disagree about Sterling being weird. I don't think Dave Kaylor has the smarts for radio. After retiring he reported from the political conventions a couple of times and he cannot think on his feet at all. If he doesn't have a script in front of him he's lost (a lot of TV people seem to be that way).
Bob Hetherington is an interesting choice, I had forgotten about him. He's kind of a Kurt Ludlow type--solid, calm, composed. But then I started thinking about it and he's gotta be pushing 60 now. And therein lies WTVN's problem. Even if they start broadcasting on FM how do they grab ahold of an audience that isn't getting older and shrinking every day? Anybody like that seems like a quick fix. A recent Harris or Gallup poll showed that people watch a lot more TV and rely less on radio when they get into their 70s and older and that's only 5 years removed from the workforce. I think a lot of WTVN's listeners will hit 70 in the next five years.
So Sterling may be too weird for morning radio, I agree. Then again, if he picks up thousands of younger listeners it might help produce the audience shift that TVN simply must have to remain viable into the future. Nothing about their current format (on AM or FM) will do that.
Bob Hetherington is an interesting choice, I had forgotten about him. He's kind of a Kurt Ludlow type--solid, calm, composed. But then I started thinking about it and he's gotta be pushing 60 now. And therein lies WTVN's problem. Even if they start broadcasting on FM how do they grab ahold of an audience that isn't getting older and shrinking every day? Anybody like that seems like a quick fix. A recent Harris or Gallup poll showed that people watch a lot more TV and rely less on radio when they get into their 70s and older and that's only 5 years removed from the workforce. I think a lot of WTVN's listeners will hit 70 in the next five years.
So Sterling may be too weird for morning radio, I agree. Then again, if he picks up thousands of younger listeners it might help produce the audience shift that TVN simply must have to remain viable into the future. Nothing about their current format (on AM or FM) will do that.
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