Combining news operations: How bad it can get

[PDXREXX]

How many markets don't have a local news operation on the ABC station?

Fox bought Greensboro's ABC station in North Carolina, and the former Fox station took ABC and tried news but never succeeded. So they dropped it. The Fox station is still doing well.

In Montana

Most Of the ABC Stations Don't even air news the exception is KFBB In Great Falls Which is owned By Max Media
The Other ABC Stations Air a 10 minute Sports and Weather report based out of Great falls
The Billings ABC is owned by nextar so i don't know what they do

 

[TexasTom]

2. We can nitpik over a few years, but I definitely remember KING 5 News at 5pm in the late 70's.

I noted it as parenthetical trivia in my previous comment -- I'm one of those folks who enjoy the old TV listings over in the "classic TV" board here.

But I just grabbed an old Seattle PI TV listing from October 1980, and here's what was on each of the commercial stations for early evening news at that time -- KOMO/4 and KIRO/7 started their evening news at 5 PM, and KING/5 was still starting at 5:30 ("Carol Burnett" ran at 5:00 PM). KSTW/11 had an hour at 10 PM, and the soon-to-relaunch KCPQ/13 had no news until later in the decade. KOMO/4 was apparently the first station in Seattle to run 90 minutes of early evening local news, while KING/5 and KIRO/7 were each doing an hour.

While it's sort of off-topic for this thread, it isn't entirely so. As folks comment on cutbacks of local news at various stations across the country, it's worth remembering that many of these markets still have many more hours of local news than was the case in the past. Additional stations have added newscasts that didn't used to run any news, while stations that have long had a news presence have added hours and hours of additional local news over the course of their broadcast weeks.

It's more than possible that many of these stations went overboard -- is there really enough going on in many medium sized markets to justify the hours of news currently spread across four or five different stations? Especially when we only have to reach back to the mid-nineties to see that many of these same markets had only two stations (or three at most) that originated local news, and those stations typically carried just a couple hours a day (a half hour at noon, an hour in the early evening, and another half hour after prime time).

So some of what the economy is now forcing in news cutbacks really may just be a reasonable market correction.

 

[mjlarochelle]

It's more than possible that many of these stations went overboard -- is there really enough going on in many medium sized markets to justify the hours of news currently spread across four or five different stations? Especially when we only have to reach back to the mid-nineties to see that many of these same markets had only two stations (or three at most) that originated local news, and those stations typically carried just a couple hours a day (a half hour at noon, an hour in the early evening, and another half hour after prime time).

So some of what the economy is now forcing in news cutbacks really may just be a reasonable market correction.

Definitely. I never understood how a market the size of Erie could support three stations producing local news, including morning shows. They're down to two with WSEE/35 moving in with WICU/12, but in the long run I can't see the market supporting more than one station with local news. When you compare the amount of local news being done in some small American markets compared to Canada and Mexico where local programming is an afterthought in a sea of national programming, you have to wonder if there's a happy medium between New Brunswick and Erie.

 

[compubit]

Markets with Big 4 statioms without local news (Pulling from Memory and my market list - I apologize if I miss some...; if another station provides some news, then I include it):

Detroit - WWJ/62 (CBS)
St. Louis - KDNL/30 (ABC)
Greensboro - WXLV/45 (ABC)
Buffalo - WUTV/29 (Fox)
Evansville - WEVV/44 (CBS)
Lincoln/Hastings - KTVG/17 (Fox)
Tallahassee - WTWC/40 (NBC)
Cadillac - WGTU/29 & WGTQ/8 (ABC)
Sioux Falls - KTTW/17 (Fox)
Laredo - KVTV/13 (CBS)
Columbus/Tupelo MS - WKDH/45 (ABC)
Monroe - KAQY/11 (ABC)
Lake Charles, LA - KVHP/29 (Fox)
Biloxi - WXXV/25 (Fox)
Panama City - WPGX/28 (Fox)
Gainesville, FL - WNBW/9 (NBC), WGFL/53 (CBS)
Bowling Green, KY - WNKY/40.2 (CBS)
Utica - WUTR/20 (ABC), WFXV/33 (Fox)
Watertown - WWTI/50 (ABC)
Billings, MT - KSVI/6 (ABC), KOUS/4 (Fox)
Western ND - KNDX/KXND (Fox)
Ottumwa, IA - KYOU/15 (Fox)
Casper, WY - KGWC/14 (CBS), KFNB/20 (Fox)
Fairbanks, AK - KFXF/7 (Fox)
Midland, TX - KPEJ/24 (Fox)
Sherman, TX - KXII/12.2 (Fox)
Abilene, TX - KXVA/15 (Fox)
Clarksburg, WV - WVFX/46 (Fox)
Yuma - KECY/9 (Fox, ABC)
Corning, NY - WYDC/48 (Fox)
Natchez, MS - WNTZ/48 (Fox)
Meridian, MS - WGBC/30 (NBC/Fox), WMDN/24 (CBS)
San Angelo, TX - KIDY/6 (Fox)
Victoria, TX - KMOL/17 (KAVU/25.2) (NBC)

I'm sure I've missed something, but here's a starter list...

 

[mjlarochelle]

Markets with Big 4 statioms without local news (Pulling from Memory and my market list - I apologize if I miss some...; if another station provides some news, then I include it):

In many of these cases, these were UHF stations that were latecomers to smaller markets and couldn't compete with one or two other already-established VHF stations. Watertown and Utica are two such examples, where UHF stations WWTI and WUTR, respectively, couldn't compete with well-established VHF stations WWNY and WKTV.

WWJ has always been an inexplicable anomoly among CBS O&Os. A market the size of Detroit should be able to support four stations with news, and they did for many years before WKBD was messed up.

 

[mleach]

Clarksburg, WV - WVFX/46 (Fox)

Actuallly WVFX "could" get into news and it wouldn't be a major cost to them since afterwall Clarksburg is just down the road from Morgantown and West Virginia University ( WVU ). Hvae WVFX make a deal with WVU and let the university do the "news". From what I have heard over the years WVU's TV department is state of the art and the university has a rather large journalism department and with the university's strong ties to the West Virginia Metronews radio/TV network and the large number of students at WVU...such an arrangement between WVFX and WVU really would be a win-win situation not only for the students of WVU but also for the community as well. Not too mention this would give those journalism students to get some work..in front & behind the camera which would be a boost to their careers.

Too bad WVFX doesn't know what exactly that have..in their own backyard.

 

[JeeperOne]

How many markets don't have a local news operation on the ABC station?

Fox bought Greensboro's ABC station in North Carolina, and the former Fox station took ABC and tried news but never succeeded. So they dropped it. The Fox station is still doing well.

In Montana

Most Of the ABC Stations Don't even air news the exception is KFBB In Great Falls Which is owned By Max Media
The Other ABC Stations Air a 10 minute Sports and Weather report based out of Great falls
The Billings ABC is owned by nextar so i don't know what they do

And then you have the small town who gets ABC from (Of all stations!) KMGH 7 here in Denver, which is owned by McGraw Hill

Makes you wonder why McGraw Hill just doesn't put a local ABC affiliate on the air from scratch in Montana, doesn't it?

Cheers

 

[JeeperOne]

Markets with Big 4 statioms without local news (Pulling from Memory and my market list - I apologize if I miss some...; if another station provides some news, then I include it):

Detroit - WWJ/62 (CBS)

[snip....]

Doesn't Scripps-Howard owned WXYZ 7 (ABC) produce news for WWJ or am I thinking of WWJ's sister WKBD here?

Cheers

 

[lugnuts6]

Updating:

WFQX FOX33's 10pm newscast is now produced by their sister station WWTV/WWUP TV 9&10 the CBS station in traverse city/Cadilliac

WGTU/WGTQ abc 29&8 news updates are now under the power of sister station WTOM/WPBN NBC 7&4 in traverse city /cheboygan


Scripps Owned WXYZ did produce WKBD "UPN50 Action news at 10", but it ended after two years ...

WWJ now produces its own 5 minute morning news updates in associtaion with the Detroit Free Press begining may 5

 

[mleach]

How many markets don't have a local news operation on the ABC station?

Fox bought Greensboro's ABC station in North Carolina, and the former Fox station took ABC and tried news but never succeeded. So they dropped it. The Fox station is still doing well.

In Montana

Most Of the ABC Stations Don't even air news the exception is KFBB In Great Falls Which is owned By Max Media
The Other ABC Stations Air a 10 minute Sports and Weather report based out of Great falls
The Billings ABC is owned by nextar so i don't know what they do

And then you have the small town who gets ABC from (Of all stations!) KMGH 7 here in Denver, which is owned by McGraw Hill

Makes you wonder why McGraw Hill just doesn't put a local ABC affiliate on the air from scratch in Montana, doesn't it?

Cheers

And speaking of KMGH...doesn't KMGH's master control operations ( and San Diego's KGTV ) actually come out of WRTV in Indianapolis?

Why is it I seem to recall last year KMGH's weatherguy Mike Nelson, a story about him appeared, I think it was in The Rocky Mountain News/Denver Post's Penny Parker column. ( Penny Parker BTW is known to many locals as "Miss Big Mouth"... read her column..hard not to see why ), who let it slip out of the bag in the paper that a good chunk of the KMGH building in downtown Denver is actually "empty and lonely" and much of the KMGH operations outside of news actually comes from Indianapolis.

Whoops !!!!!!!

 

[tripinva]

Doesn't Scripps-Howard owned WXYZ 7 (ABC) produce news for WWJ or am I thinking of WWJ's sister WKBD here?

Cheers

You're thinking of neither. That arrangement ended in 2005.

- Trip

 

[formeraa]

2. We can nitpik over a few years, but I definitely remember KING 5 News at 5pm in the late 70's.

I noted it as parenthetical trivia in my previous comment -- I'm one of those folks who enjoy the old TV listings over in the "classic TV" board here.

But I just grabbed an old Seattle PI TV listing from October 1980, and here's what was on each of the commercial stations for early evening news at that time -- KOMO/4 and KIRO/7 started their evening news at 5 PM, and KING/5 was still starting at 5:30 ("Carol Burnett" ran at 5:00 PM). KSTW/11 had an hour at 10 PM, and the soon-to-relaunch KCPQ/13 had no news until later in the decade. KOMO/4 was apparently the first station in Seattle to run 90 minutes of early evening local news, while KING/5 and KIRO/7 were each doing an hour.

While it's sort of off-topic for this thread, it isn't entirely so. As folks comment on cutbacks of local news at various stations across the country, it's worth remembering that many of these markets still have many more hours of local news than was the case in the past. Additional stations have added newscasts that didn't used to run any news, while stations that have long had a news presence have added hours and hours of additional local news over the course of their broadcast weeks.

It's more than possible that many of these stations went overboard -- is there really enough going on in many medium sized markets to justify the hours of news currently spread across four or five different stations? Especially when we only have to reach back to the mid-nineties to see that many of these same markets had only two stations (or three at most) that originated local news, and those stations typically carried just a couple hours a day (a half hour at noon, an hour in the early evening, and another half hour after prime time).

So some of what the economy is now forcing in news cutbacks really may just be a reasonable market correction.

I stand corrected on the start time of KING/5, but it still was an hour-long newscast. Certainly, a few years later, all three Seattle stations were doing 90 minutes of news with an hour-long 5pm plus a 6:30pm. KING even hired Lori Matsukawa to co-anchor KING 5 Top Story at 6:30pm in 1984 -- an futile attempt at a local version of Nightline. I think KIRO also had a 15 minute show at 11:30pm that focused on a single story for a while in the 80's.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

We've got a poster child for combined news operations just down the road from us: Youngstown, OH.

There are now only two TV newsrooms in the Mahoning Valley, WFMJ/21 (NBC), and WKBN/27-WYTV/33-WYFX-17/62 (CBS, ABC, Fox).

WFMJ is owned and operated by the local family which owns the Youngstown Vindicator newspaper. WKBN is owned by New Vision, along with sister LPTV/DTV Fox affiliate WYFX, and runs Parkin Broadcasting's WYTV.

WYFX sort of "doesn't count" in this, as it airs a single 10 PM newscast, and didn't exist as a separate operation...WKBN, under previous ownership, started it from scratch a few years ago.

But WYTV is now swallowed into the Sunset Boulevard operation.

It could be worse. WYTV maintains a nominal separate presence - they moved the "33 News" virtual set over from 33's former home, and have mostly separate anchors. But the primary anchor, Stan Boney, is the station's long-time weatherman - and STILL does weather along with news anchoring.

 

[BRNout]

We've got a poster child for combined news operations just down the road from us: Youngstown, OH.

There are now only two TV newsrooms in the Mahoning Valley, WFMJ/21 (NBC), and WKBN/27-WYTV/33-WYFX-17/62 (CBS, ABC, Fox).

WFMJ is owned and operated by the local family which owns the Youngstown Vindicator newspaper. WKBN is owned by New Vision, along with sister LPTV/DTV Fox affiliate WYFX, and runs Parkin Broadcasting's WYTV.

WYFX sort of "doesn't count" in this, as it airs a single 10 PM newscast, and didn't exist as a separate operation...WKBN, under previous ownership, started it from scratch a few years ago.

But WYTV is now swallowed into the Sunset Boulevard operation.

It could be worse. WYTV maintains a nominal separate presence - they moved the "33 News" virtual set over from 33's former home, and have mostly separate anchors. But the primary anchor, Stan Boney, is the station's long-time weatherman - and STILL does weather along with news anchoring.

Talk about an economic disaster area, Youngstown is as bad as it gets. I'm amazed that anyone is advertising on local TV these days. The newscasts that I have viewed in that area are not very good; though I think that the NBC station seemed to best to me. Interesting side note, bowling gets more airtime in Youngstown market sportscasts than in any other place I've ever been!

Not to mention that, at least just outside of Y-town, most suburban areas can also watch Cleveland or Pittsburgh stations too. That can't be good for business either in that many parts of the market need not watch the local stations. For example, I was in Hubbard, OH when severe weather was coming through and the event was covered just as well on Pittsburgh stations as it was on the locals.

I know because my hotel had full local cable (see other thread)!

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

The Youngstown market newscasts used to be about what you'd expect for a market that size. Not as bad as you'd expect, at least out of 21 (WFMJ/NBC) and 27 (WKBN/CBS).

They were both old-line, locally-owned family operations that invested in the product and the news coverage. It showed in their ratings. 27 was number one for a long time, until 21 beefed up their product...and eventually overtook 27 for the top spot.

33 pretty much has always been the laggard of the market, so they didn't have far to fall when New Vision took over the operation. Even they have good points - Stan Boney is the top weatherman in the market, and is a decent anchor, and some of their specialty reporting hits areas 21/27 don't really touch.

They are still doing SOME of that, though some of those resources are now being folded back into/shared with 27 First News.

Watching the 27 and 33 newscasts at the same time is an exercise in head spinning. They sometimes even play the canned pieces at nearly the same time! ("Didn't I see this reporter walking onto a train locomotive 10 seconds ago on the other station?" "Reporter name, 27 First News, Niles" "Reporter name, 33 News, Niles")

My sense of the market tells me 27 has dipped a bit having to handle the two station (three, if you count WYFX "Fox Youngstown") operation. But they're not what they were back in the days when Tom Holden was the most solid news anchor in the market.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Aren't several of the Youngstown stations low power allotments? I know that Fox programming runs on two LP stations.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Actually, 21/27/33 are all full-power, long-running allotments - though 33's current digital signal may as well be low-power (They'll supposedly fix that post-transition.)

The Fox affiliate is indeed "homed" on two LPTVers - WYFX-LP 62 Youngstown and WFXI-CA 17 Mercer PA. Until recently, the station was known as "Fox 17/62".

But you probably could consider WKBN-DT 27.2 the new "home" of the station now known as "Fox Youngstown". WKBN's powerful digital signal blows the LPTVers away, and WKBN is now sending out a 720p HDTV signal on 27.2. (To accomplish this, it is reducing WKBN's 27.1 main CBS HD signal to 720p from 1080i, and using newer encoding equipment.)

Just for completeness, the other full-power station in the market is Western Reserve PBS' WNEO/45 Alliance, which, though Alliance is technically in the Cleveland/Akron (Canton) TV market, serves the Mahoning Valley from a transmitter near Salem in Columbiana County. WNEO shut off its analog last November, and is full-post-transition power on DT 45.

WNEO has had a low-power analog translator on Channel 58 in Youngstown for years, though I don't know if it's back up yet. There was talk that they may not bring that back, and instead, light up the companion low-power digital 44 instead. I need to talk to the Western Reserve folks about that...

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

From a recent item on OMW...Lima's TV newsrooms shrink from two to one, as Block's WLIO/35 (NBC) takes over operations of the Fox/CBS/ABC low-power group:

http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com/2009/05/odder-mix-than-usual.html

OMW hears from our reader in the region that Block is now using generic "Your News Now" branding for newscasts on all four stations, which we're told are being produced out of the WLIO operation.

The newscasts now air in a pattern - a new 5 PM broadcast joins the 10 PM broadcast on Fox affiliate WOHL-CA, and newscasts that used to only air on "NBC Lima" are simulcast now - the 6 PM show on WLQP-LP "ABC Lima", and the 11 PM show on WLMO-LP "CBS Lima". The morning newscast apparently continues to air solely on WLIO.

The LPTVers are relatively recent additions on the Lima TV dial, and the news operation hadn't been around for that long. They started with a 10 PM cast on "Fox Lima" and expanded to the other stations.

So, historically, it's back to where it was - WLIO as the only local TV news operation in the market - but it's now being seen on all the secular stations. (Mostly-religious WTLW/44 is the only other full-power station in the market...they do some local sports and run some old secular sitcoms.)

 

[PDXREXX]

In Fargo, KXJB and KVLY Do a Combined Newscast
and is simulcasted on both stations

they stream it online so you can take a look and see for yourself

http://www.valleynewslive.tv/on_demand/index.shtml

 

[bpatrick]

I don't see anything wrong with television stations pairing up to produce a 10pm
newscast, here in Wilmington, North Carolina, WECT Channel 6(NBC) produces
a 10:00 news for co-owned WSFX Channel 26(Fox), in Raleigh, WRAL Channel 5
(CBS) produces a 10:00 news for co-owned WRAZ Channel 50(Fox) and they do
well in the ratings with this, WTVD Channel 11(ABC) in the same market does a
newscasts at the same time for WLFL Channel 22(CW) and in the Greenville,
Washington/New Bern market WCTI Channel 12(ABC) handles a 10pm news for
co-owned WFXI/WYDO Channel 8/14(Fox)

How would you feel about it if the NBC station produced the CBS station's newscast at 11, using the same anchor and just different background graphics? With the exact same taped weather and sports segments? And, before you answer, the Fox and CW stations in the market don't offer news. So, you've got 2 newscasts to choose from in the market: the one from the NBC station and the one from the ABC station - and the clone on CBS. How would that be? Because it's a completely different scenario than you list above.

A lot of people on this thread seem to confuse the concept of one channel producing the news for another at a different time (an 11 pm newscast to be shown at 10) with the original complaint which is that newsrooms are being blown out to save money and that has the new effect of limiting your choices for news in the market. Peoria basically has the same (apparently poorly done) newscast on 2 channels at the same time - which looks ridiculous, and another newscast on one other station. That's it. They used to have 3.

I believe that in Bristol/Kingsport/Johnson City WJHL (CBS) produces
the newscasts for WKPT (ABC).