Conneticut School of Broadcasting

[umtrr-author]

When I saw the title of this thread, I immediately assumed that it was going to be a "Do You Remember..." topic. But reading on, I'm amazed that CSB still exists at all.

I'm glad that it was mentioned that it was around 25 years ago; I was hoping I wasn't having incorrect flashbacks about their radio ads.

But I digress-- having heard said ads about CSB, I had always wondered what it was really about. Now that I've read this thread, I know! Thanks everyone!

(P.S. No, I didn't go into broadcasting.)

 

[DJ Mo]

I just graduated at CSB in Orlando last July. I opened myself to any possibilities & landed a job on a national TV show as an Audio Operator mainly because I had that CSB name in my resume (I also had previous Sound Tech experience & a degree in Theatre before I even went to CSB). The director who hired me also taught at CSB before.

I have volunteered for 3 years at 2 radio stations in 2 different markets (even before I attended CSB). I gave up my weekly radio show at a college station for the TV job I have now. I am still able to perform on that same station as a sub, so I haven't lost much, except for a steady time. (I used to have a weekly overnight slot.)

Yes, I also voluntarily drive 2 hours back & forth to spin a 2 hour set as a Mixer on a Top-40 station, because I love it & am free to spin whatever I want as long as it doesn't skew away from their format of EDM (Electronic Dance Music). I saw it as more exposure for me as a DJ & very rare to be so lenient on what is being played on commercial radio, which is why I'm still doing it - FOR FREE.

As far as my experience at CSB, I have dramatically improved my performance on the radio ever since & also have learned about the TV aspect, which was a plus for my current TV job. Although it is a hefty $11,000 price tag, it all depends on how much you put into it. Yes, I have been told that my goal was set too high too soon.

Although I wish to become a Music Director for a radio station as soon as possible, the only skill I'm lacking is the only thing they didn't have installed at CSB: voicetracking on the Selector software. I recently went to a workshop & it's pretty simple, so I know the basics of it. Still learning even after graduation & each radio & TV performance.

I'm not a big fan of the horrible art of voicetracking. I personally prefer to perform LIVE, since I'm so used to it by now. Even my current TV job is performed LIVE & mostly improvised. I have to be quick as an Audio Operator. You have NO IDEA!

I currently program music for TV bumps at my job, the radio show I sub on a college radio station, AND my DJ set during the EDM mixshow on a Top-40/CHR station. I'm pretty sure I'm in the right path, waiting for someone to discover me. My heart is really in radio, but I'm doing TV because of CSB.

Hope this helps as I put this in my perspective.

 

[cabradio]

The director who hired me also taught at CSB before.

As I mentioned, usually when one gets hired BECAUSE they list a CSB certificate, it's BECAUSE the hiring manager also had something to do with CSB.

I have volunteered for 3 years at 2 radio stations in 2 different markets (even before I attended CSB). I gave up my weekly radio show at a college station for the TV job I have now. I am still able to perform on that same station as a sub, so I haven't lost much, except for a steady time. (I used to have a weekly overnight slot.)

Yes, I also voluntarily drive 2 hours back & forth to spin a 2 hour set as a Mixer on a Top-40 station, because I love it & am free to spin whatever I want as long as it doesn't skew away from their format of EDM (Electronic Dance Music). I saw it as more exposure for me as a DJ & very rare to be so lenient on what is being played on commercial radio, which is why I'm still doing it - FOR FREE.

You admit to 3 years experience PRIOR to CSB. That experience should be enough to get you a paid radio gig, unless you really aren't very good at what you do. So, if you had trouble getting hired before CSB, but magically get hired post CSB by a former CSB student or teacher, I'd question why I was really hired.

As far as my experience at CSB, I have dramatically improved my performance on the radio ever since & also have learned about the TV aspect, which was a plus for my current TV job. Although it is a hefty $11,000 price tag, it all depends on how much you put into it. Yes, I have been told that my goal was set too high too soon.

If you ask your PD for input, he/she should be willing to help you get better. It's in the station's best interest for their talent to be as good as they can be. You could intern at a TV station too, and save the $11,000 for food and rent. If you got a Pell grant, the tax payers paid for something you could have learned for free! If you took a loan out, how long will it take you, working minimum wage to pay it back?

Although I wish to become a Music Director for a radio station as soon as possible, the only skill I'm lacking is the only thing they didn't have installed at CSB: voicetracking on the Selector software. I recently went to a workshop & it's pretty simple, so I know the basics of it.

I'm not a big fan of the horrible art of voicetracking. I personally prefer to perform LIVE, since I'm so used to it by now.

I currently program music for TV bumps at my job, the radio show I sub on a college radio station, AND my DJ set during the EDM mixshow on a Top-40/CHR station. I'm pretty sure I'm in the right path, waiting for someone to discover me. My heart is really in radio, but I'm doing TV because of CSB.

Hope this helps as I put this in my perspective.

I do appreciate your perspective, but CSB takes advantage of people. They make it sound like they can make you a star. They can't. If you intern for free at a station, what you get is what you put into it too, without the added debt! many many more people have made it in the business WITHOUT CSB. They don't tell you that! For $11k, they better GUARANTEE a job, which means they would be calling in favors from former Grads to hire current grads. Thus you would be in a fraternity..and you would get hired irregardless of your skill. And that hurts the industry as a whole.

Good luck to you! If you want to see if CSB makes a difference, as an experiment, leave it off your resume and apply for a gig for fun. See if you get hired anyway, based on your experience. If I were a betting man...

 

[fang39]

I do appreciate your perspective, but CSB takes advantage of people. They make it sound like they can make you a star. They can't. If you intern for free at a station, what you get is what you put into it too, without the added debt! many many more people have made it in the business WITHOUT CSB. They don't tell you that! For $11k, they better GUARANTEE a job, which means they would be calling in favors from former Grads to hire current grads. Thus you would be in a fraternity..and you would get hired irregardless of your skill. And that hurts the industry as a whole.

Good luck to you! If you want to see if CSB makes a difference, as an experiment, leave it off your resume and apply for a gig for fun. See if you get hired anyway, based on your experience. If I were a betting man...

As a graduate of CSB, I think your assertion is off base. From the very start, the instructors tell you that the radio industry doesn't pay well and that if you think you're gonna get rich, think again. They also implore you to keep an open mind as to what direction you want your career to go, as there are opportunities out there in Radio and Television, that you may not have envisoned yourself pursuing. Yes, I'll agree it's waaaaaay overpriced, as I'll probably be paying off my Sallie Mae loan until I'm ready to collect Social Security and given today's job landscape, never recoup the money invested, but I know my CSB diploma definitely helped me land my first paid job just a couple of months after graduation. That part-time gig turned full-time within 6 months and became a management opportunity. Today I produce a weekly syndicated show, heard on radio stations worldwide. None of this would have been possible without the solid training I received at CSB.

But, most importantly, I believe the school does provide a valuable service and the key factor is the amount of effort the individual student puts into it. In that regard, it's no different than school/college. As an intern at a local station, you'll probably never be given an opportunity to work the board without the fear of making a mistake, much less going on the air. At CSB, you have access to their studios, both while attending the school and after graduation. You can really get a feel for production and hone your on-air skills. You also have access to respected industry professionals, who can guide you in the process.

BTW, both WFAN mid-day host Joe Beningo and "Mike & The Mad Dog" producer Eddie Ericsson are CSB grads.

 

[warm590]

One of the folks made the comment that he (she) wasn't a fan of voicetracking...yahoo! I'm for live and local!! But- you have to admit it- live local programming and DJ's are an endangered species. Trying to find a small station that will let you get your foot in the door might be a stretch, but ask around. See if you can hang around. Offer to clean the toilets and empty the garbage. By being there you might have the good fortune to pick up some training from a pro and possibly learn the ropes. I was lucky to have a pro teach me the ropes and a small fm where they let me use the production studio where I could practice, tape myself and improve. I'm hoping that since the big companies like cheap channel are selling off their smaller market stations that some of them will go back to live and local ownership and programming BTW, get another part time job, radio will not pay the freight!!


Good luck- amazing the things we do for the love of the radio business...I too work for free but never had so much fun!!

warm590 ;D

 

[cabradio]

As a graduate of CSB, I think your assertion is off base.

Most professionals in the industry did NOT go to CSB. Most professionals I speak to agree with me. But as a "graduate" I can understand why you would disagree. You paid $11,000 (through loans) and have to justify why to yourself.

... but I know my CSB diploma definitely helped me land my first paid job just a couple of months after graduation.

That's where you are short sighted. If you would have pursued an internship...even at the jazz station, or the PBS station, or the Lite Rock station...you would have gained enough experience to get a paid gig. It would have taken longer than 8 weeks for sure, but you wouldn't be in $11,000 in debt. You would have invested your time wisely, instead of your money poorly. Besides the fact that CSB even suggests to do an internship while you are "training". Funny, you had to pay them $11,000 to hear them tell you "do an internship", and you got that same advice for free here! And you learn more during an internship that you will learn during the 8 week course.

I want to elaborate on my second sentence in the above paragraph. Most of those attending CSB want to do their internships at their "favorite" station. Unfortunately, that's not always possible. I did not go to any CSB type institution. I got my start by interning at a small community radio station. I worked there two hours a week for almost a year. It was not my "favorite" station by any stretch. But I had alot of fun and I gleaned a lot of experience there. You do get back what you put into it. If you can't get an internship at your "favorite" station, call around to other stations! There are many stations that could use an extra pair of hands to get things done. The experience you will get is MORE valuable than what you pay $11,000 for at CSB.

That part-time gig turned full-time within 6 months and became a management opportunity. Today I produce a weekly syndicated show, heard on radio stations worldwide. None of this would have been possible without the solid training I received at CSB.

Again, that is where you are wrong. Not to say what your doing isn't important, but there are many more people in radio doing far more important things that did not go to CSB. As such it is clearly possible that if you are persistent, patient and available, you can be doing as great or greater things. One does not have to go to CSB to get the experience to advance rapidly. That is a misnomer. You may have done it that way, but it clearly is not necessary.

But, most importantly, I believe the school does provide a valuable service and the key factor is the amount of effort the individual student puts into it. In that regard, it's no different than school/college.

The key factor in LIFE is you get what you out what you put in. CSB doesn't have the market on that. Quite honestly, I'm tired of hearing that from CSB grads. If you are not willing to apply yourself in anything you do, you will not get far. The difference with CSB is that you do not have to apply yourself. You can graduate, stick the certificate on your application and get a job from someone who also graduated from CSB that is in a hiring position.

As an intern at a local station, you'll probably never be given an opportunity to work the board without the fear of making a mistake, much less going on the air.

You wouldn't know. You didn't go that route. The truth is, that if you show yourself to be dependable, reliable and responsible (ie mature) you can get to do lots of things that you can only "practice" doing at CSB. The station I got my internship at put me on the board after five minutes of being in the studio. Within a couple weeks I was doing news. It really comes down to who is training you and what confidence they have in your ability to take instruction. However, it is true that if you are interning at the "number 1" station in the market, it is less likely that you would get to play with the controls...that's why one should seek an internship where they can get their feet wet quickly.

At CSB, you have access to their studios, both while attending the school and after graduation. You can really get a feel for production and hone your on-air skills. You also have access to respected industry professionals, who can guide you in the process.

As an intern at a radio station, you can also request access to the studios to hone your skills. Whether you are given access depends on your demeanor while interning. If you are always bummed, and depressed, I doubt anyone will take you seriously. If you are eager and excited to take out the trash...then I bet you'll find a friend quickly who will be willing to work with you. It comes down to attitude and maturity.

BTW, both WFAN mid-day host Joe Beningo and "Mike & The Mad Dog" producer Eddie Ericsson are CSB grads.

That's great for them. I could list many more people who are successes in radio that are NOT CSB grads that either got their start volunteering or interning, or doing menial tasks.

 

[fang39]

BTW, both WFAN mid-day host Joe Beningo and "Mike & The Mad Dog" producer Eddie Ericsson are CSB grads.

That's great for them. I could list many more people who are successes in radio that are NOT CSB grads that either got their start volunteering or interning, or doing menial tasks.

Of course there are far more people working in the business that didn't attend CSB.That's an absurd statement. There are also more people in the workforce who don't have a college degree than do. I never said that you had to attend CSB to get a job in radio, but keep in mind that the person who started this thread (in a different post) was looking to get his foot in the door in the New York City market. I don't know where you are from, but I've lived and worked here my entire life and don't know any stations in Market 1 or 18 that would allow someone to volunteer or work as an intern without going through the proper channels (i.e.-A recognized HS, College or Trade School Program, like CSB).

 

[RadioMan203]

Personally, from what I've seen at some of the stations I've been employed at, there's a stigma associated with "broadcasting schools" in general verses hard and fast experience, be in a high school or college station or simply an internship at the local community broadcaster.

I've worked with a variety of CSB grads in my life and there were some who did quite well. Others never could quite get it. Some mastered the mechanics of being on-air but never developed a style. Some were full of personality but put them in front of a console and they would have a better chance of running the coffee maker!

While I had radio experience while in school my biggest and most memorable comments came when the afternoon drive personality broke a tooth and had to leave. I got picked to fill in the last 35 minutes or so of his shift and all the "seasoned" staffers were shocked that the station engineer could actually pull it off on the air - running a contest, doing traffic, news teases, etc without missing a beat (this is with running music off CD with no set music log). Experience is the key besides knowing the mechanics of running a board, doing production, etc. BTW: I also ended up doing Christmas Eve and Day that year to allow the full-timers to spend the holiday at home with their families.

I don't know if things have changed since I'm not only doing engineering consulting these days but from what I last remember most PD's tend to have a pre conceived notion about broadcast school grads.

 

[radiopromoguy]

I think going the CSB route is OK to learn the basics... but as a person who was in a hiring position, I had a tendency to hire people who were already at my station through internships. With that said, I did hire interns out of CSB. And if those people proved themselves, then I hired them for part-time/per diem jobs when they became available. However, I did seem to find that many, not all, but many came in with a sense of entitlement and didn't think they had to work hard in an internship role.

As for myself, I went to CSB many years ago. Then I went to college and joined the radio station there. I learned more at my college station than I did at CSB. I've worked for a number of radio stations throughout my career, primarily in Connecticut and Boston. I have NEVER put CSB on my resume.

But again... CSB is good for what it is... a place to learn the basics. But don't count on getting a job because of it. Keep in mind that with consolidation, voice-tracking, and lay-offs that there a great number of us out of work that have years of experience trying to stay in the business. I still think the best route is to find an internship or volunteer opportunity at a small market station, get yourself some experience, and work your way up.

 

[DJ Mo]

You admit to 3 years experience PRIOR to CSB. That experience should be enough to get you a paid radio gig, unless you really aren't very good at what you do. So, if you had trouble getting hired before CSB, but magically get hired post CSB by a former CSB student or teacher, I'd question why I was really hired.

Yes, I agree that I wasn't very good BEFORE I went to CSB. I have heard my airchecks from before & after CSB. HUGE difference in my delivery & tactics. Instead of 10-12 songs, I fit an average of 14 songs per hour by changing the way I do my breaks & editing PSA's on-the-fly instead of reading the whole thing even if the writing was too wordy.

If you ask your PD for input, he/she should be willing to help you get better. It's in the station's best interest for their talent to be as good as they can be.

The PD of the college station I work for got his position by default & he really wasn't as skilled as you think a PD should be. He just mainly keeps the weekly schedule of DJ's for 24 hours. That was probably why I resulted in going to CSB. I knew I needed a little bit of work.

I do appreciate your perspective, but CSB takes advantage of people. They make it sound like they can make you a star. They can't. If you intern for free at a station, what you get is what you put into it too, without the added debt! many many more people have made it in the business WITHOUT CSB. They don't tell you that!

Good luck to you! If you want to see if CSB makes a difference, as an experiment, leave it off your resume and apply for a gig for fun. See if you get hired anyway, based on your experience. If I were a betting man...

Actually, the instructors at CSB did tell me people have made it in the business without CSB. You just gotta know people & be their best friends or something to get in easier. I know hiring someone people don't know is a little risky, but I've seen posts where people complain about radio without guts.

Bill, I also currently perform LIVE using CD's & Vinyl only on BOTH stations. No automated music selector software at all. Just totally manual here for the past 3+ years. I actually prefer doing it that way. It sounds better & I have more control of the flow of the show & can fulfill requests if something unexpected comes up.

 

[cabradio]

Actually, the instructors at CSB did tell me people have made it in the business without CSB. You just gotta know people & be their best friends or something to get in easier. I know hiring someone people don't know is a little risky, but I've seen posts where people complain about radio without guts.

In some cases, I'll agree that "who you know" can come into play, but it is not so in every situation; and it is more likely to be that way with CSB. But it can be like that in any industry, really. The point remains, a CSB certificate is not "the ticket" to advance rapidly in radio.

Bill, I also currently perform LIVE using CD's & Vinyl only on BOTH stations. No automated music selector software at all. Just totally manual here for the past 3+ years. I actually prefer doing it that way. It sounds better & I have more control of the flow of the show & can fulfill requests if something unexpected comes up.

I will say it is good to hear that you are having fun and that you are able to put the experience to practical use.

 

[videokilledtheradiostar]

Don't waste your money or time. As a 20 year CT radio guy I will advise you to do an internship. If you are lucky like I was, someone will get fired for some stupidity and you'll get hired. Probably not a lot of money but it looks good on the resume'.
If you spend the 10k you'll just be putting a down payment on another yacht for owner Tricky Dicky Robinson.

 

[Band-Scanner]

I was wondering when someone would make reference to the founder of CSB...WDRC's high energy nite jock Dickee Robinson! Now heard spinning "adult standards" on a syndicated program.

 

[bub]

I was wondering when someone would make reference to the founder of CSB...WDRC's high energy nite jock Dickee Robinson! Now heard spinning "adult standards" on a syndicated program.

That's right...Dick Robinson's American Standards by the Sea - or, as Dick Robinson refers to his show from time to time as, "The Dick Format." ;D

 

[bub]

Seeing all these posts about CSB and the tuition some of these folks paid to attend, I can only say that as a CSB alum, I came and went at the right time...and I only paid a grand to go. I guess it was worth the dough...I'm still in the business. Scary, isn't it?

 

[wrkoutxprt]

Ridiculous program. How can anyone be a broadcaster in... what? 6 weeks? They focus on production skills and provide NO vocal training or on-air practice. Great if you want to learn Adobe Audition, but not if you want to be talent. Go to a 4 year college like the rest of us and get some hands on experience in the real world via internships and college radio stations.

 

[TomNote]

They focus on production skills and provide NO vocal training or on-air practice.

I must disagree. I'm not sure how you would know what CSB teaches if you didn't attend (I assume, based on your "4 year college like the rest of us" comment) but I'm an alum ('89) and my curriculum at the time consisted of numerous vocal training sessions. Although we did not have an actual broadcast radio station all students in my class were required to put together progressively longer shows, following play lists and spot logs, and submitting both scoped and un-scoped tapes for review. These included live reads, which were graded seperately on vocal performance.

I was actually hired (full time) a week before graduation by an Oldies station in North Jersey based on the strength of my final exam T&R, and have been making my sole living on-air ever since. That's 19 years of uniterrupted real world radio employment courtesy of that "ridiculous program".

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio...."

 

[cabradio]

Here's the thing: What percentage of people that graduate CSB, actually get hired? Considering the fact that the industry as a whole is shrinking, with less positions available today than just last year, I would say that percentage will be less than 5%. That means that in a class of 20, one gets a gig (if that many!). If someone from CSB can refute my theory, please do. It is just a theory, based on what I do know about this industry.

Now, if you look at a traditional 2 or 4 year program at a traditional college, what percentage of graduates get a job in their respective fields? My guess is higher than 5%! And if you have a BA, or a BS it will serve you better in radio than a CSB Certificate!

So, you can spend $10k and place your bets that you will be in that 5% upon graduation at CSB, or go to a traditional institution and be better educated, where you can take your degree to many industries. Yes, I know that many people with college degrees are out of work. But percentage wise, I would guess there are more CSB grads that never got hired in radio. And what good is a CSB certificate flipping burgers. With a BA or BS, you stand a better chance of promotion into management!

Now, if it were possible to count how many people did an "internship", or "volunteer work" at a radio station, and find out how many got jobs because of their internship, and how many are still employed, my guess would be at 75-80%. The 25-25% unaccounted for would include people that were able to make lateral moves from another industry, particularly management positions. Of course, there is a small percentage of CSB grads in that remaining 20-25% too.

So, go with the odds you are most comfortable with. Again if my guess is off, please show us.

 

[TomNote]

No offense Charlie, but your adamant conclusion is based on numbers that - as you yourself wrote - are just "guesses". That's bad...everything.

If you make claims of (in this case, extreme) percentages, you need to provide something other than personal anectdotes as a source. 5% of CSB graduates versus 75-80% interns get gigs, with a 20-25% unaccounted for population? "Of course, there is a small percentage of CSB grads in that remaining 20-25% too."? Where in the world did you get those numbers? Unless "What I know about the industry..." includes the abilty to point to published data on each ones' post-graduation success rate, your numbers are just not valid. At all.

I'm sure you're sincere in your belief, but trying to make a case this way is terrible Logic. When you make a firm pronouncement and cite specific numbers as the basis for your conclusion, they can't be numbers that you just made up! It's incumbent on you to do the legwork and show what you based your argument on. It's not up to the reader/listener.

 

[cabradio]

No offense Charlie, but your adamant conclusion is based on numbers that - as you yourself wrote - are just "guesses". That's bad...everything.

If you make claims of (in this case, extreme) percentages, you need to provide something other than personal anectdotes as a source. 5% of CSB graduates versus 75-80% interns get gigs, with a 20-25% unaccounted for population? "Of course, there is a small percentage of CSB grads in that remaining 20-25% too."? Where in the world did you get those numbers? Unless "What I know about the industry..." includes the abilty to point to published data on each ones' post-graduation success rate, your numbers are just not valid. At all.

I'm sure you're sincere in your belief, but trying to make a case this way is terrible Logic. When you make a firm pronouncement and cite specific numbers as the basis for your conclusion, they can't be numbers that you just made up! It's incumbent on you to do the legwork and show what you based your argument on. It's not up to the reader/listener.

Come on now, Sherpat. You're taking the fun out of it. Don't you know we now live in an age where we can make up anything we want, post it on the internet and call it the truth?

In all seriousness, you are correct. These numbers are just my own educated guess based on my own experience in the industry, and talking with people I know and have worked with. There just isn't a way to effectually measure what I have suggested. You would have to take into consideration: people that have retired, people that are deceased, people that became ill or injured, etc. to come up with a truly accurate accounting system of CSB Grads vs Internship "grads". I really don't have the desire to put up the time and money resources to "prove my point".

Even if my suggestion is using exaggerated figures (as you suggest), I think the point is made that few CSB Grads get hired compared to if someone interns at a station for low pay or as a volunteer. Am I wrong? And from what I do know, I will stick by my guestimate that one in twenty CSB or Broadcasting School grads get hired full time in broadcasting.

I don't know how others feel, but I would never pay $10k just to get a part-time radio gig (never mind a full-time gig), even with a possibility for advancement when I know I can get the same basic experience volunteering. But our "on demand" culture encourages wasteful spending on things we don't really need. So people who are too impatient to find an internship where they can discover with only a time commitment if they are cut out for broadcasting, can go the route of a Broadcast School and pay to make that discovery. They just should be made aware of the "success rate" post graduation BEFORE they write the check.