Country at 102.7??????? Maybe???

[Bogotaboy]

Back in it's heyday,and right up until it's last day on the air,WYNY was recognized by Arbitron as Americas most listened to Country Station with 1 million listeners and a 3 share.Back then it was a smaller company called Evergreen Media and they needed a place to launch their ''New Baby'',the new wktu so it flipped.So if it had a 3 share then,why shouldnt it get the same now,maybe even a 2 share.I think the entire radio industry has changed since satellite.Unless someone is in a cab or a rental car theres no way one would go back to FM from Satellite.Think about it,7 million xm subs 6 million Sirius subs thats 13 million people who left terrestrial radio,WOW thats quite a dent in the business.They should just be done with it and put Country on WNEW..What other possible format is there left? Standards? nice but never on FM in a major market.How many ways can you change around an AC format to be different.YAWN.......

 

[davideduardo]

My mistake. I knew they had more than one Spanish-language FMs, but I thought they only had one that wasn't on a Class A signal, so thanks for the clarification. That being said, they still have fewer full power Spanish-language sticks than NYC does.

NY has two B's in Spanish, while Chicago has 3.

 

[davideduardo]

Back in it's heyday,and right up until it's last day on the air,WYNY was recognized by Arbitron as Americas most listened to Country Station with 1 million listeners and a 3 share.Back then it was a smaller company called Evergreen Media and they needed a place to launch their ''New Baby'',the new wktu so it flipped.So if it had a 3 share then,why shouldnt it get the same now,maybe even a 2 share.I think the entire radio industry has changed since satellite.Unless someone is in a cab or a rental car theres no way one would go back to FM from Satellite.Think about it,7 million xm subs 6 million Sirius subs thats 13 million people who left terrestrial radio,WOW thats quite a dent in the business.They should just be done with it and put Country on WNEW..What other possible format is there left? Standards? nice but never on FM in a major market.How many ways can you change around an AC format to be different.YAWN.......

Radio is not bought on cume, but on AQH persons, and based on ranking in each market.The #30 station in LA has more listeners than the sum of the top 5 in Palm Springs, but still does not make it on LA buys as it is looked at in comparison with the rest of the LA market.So the WYNY cume is irrelevant.

Most sat installs are in cars, and only 30% of listening is in cars. So 13 million represents really only 30% of that group's listening, or less than a half share nationally. In fact, sat subscribers are also big terrestrial users... they are just more active listeners.

 

[neo11]

My mistake. I knew they had more than one Spanish-language FMs, but I thought they only had one that wasn't on a Class A signal, so thanks for the clarification. That being said, they still have fewer full power Spanish-language sticks than NYC does.

NY has two B's in Spanish, while Chicago has 3.

I was talking about *full power*....you said yourself that Chicago only has one full power Class B and two B1s that are running at less than max power. Unless I misunderstood, that would mean that NYC has two full-power class B's and Chicago has one, plus two B1's.

 

[JustinT]

I was talking about *full power*....you said yourself that Chicago only has one full power Class B and two B1s that are running at less than max power. Unless I misunderstood, that would mean that NYC has two full-power class B's and Chicago has one, plus two B1's.

The two stations in question don't have less power, they are true Class Bs. One of them, WPPN 106.7, is licensed to the northwest suburb of Des Plaines, and is too far away to move to either the Hancock Tower or the Sears Tower, Chicago's two downtown transmitter sites. Same situation with WLEY 107.9, licensed to the western suburb of Aurora. Together with two suburban Class As, WVIV 103.1 and WVIX 93.5, and the downtown Class B signal of 105.1 WOJO, Chicago has five Spanish-language (or in the case of WVIV/WVIX, Hispanic-targetted) FM stations.

 

[chuckydoll]

Fat chance

Country is a lily-white format. The New York metro is increasingly brown and black -- even in New Jersey, Westchester and Long Island. That's why CBS turned 102.7 into a female-centered A/C.

 

[neo11]

I was talking about *full power*....you said yourself that Chicago only has one full power Class B and two B1s that are running at less than max power. Unless I misunderstood, that would mean that NYC has two full-power class B's and Chicago has one, plus two B1's.

The two stations in question don't have less power, they are true Class Bs. One of them, WPPN 106.7, is licensed to the northwest suburb of Des Plaines, and is too far away to move to either the Hancock Tower or the Sears Tower, Chicago's two downtown transmitter sites. Same situation with WLEY 107.9, licensed to the western suburb of Aurora. Together with two suburban Class As, WVIV 103.1 and WVIX 93.5, and the downtown Class B signal of 105.1 WOJO, Chicago has five Spanish-language (or in the case of WVIV/WVIX, Hispanic-targetted) FM stations.

Yes, but they are not Hancock or Sears Tower signals. When I was in downtown Chicago, reception of both 106.7 and 107.9 was pretty messy. Even 105.9 in NYC has a signal from Empire, just with much lower power than the other stations on ESB.

 

[neo11]

Re: Fat chance

Country is a lily-white format. The New York metro is increasingly brown and black -- even in New Jersey, Westchester and Long Island. That's why CBS turned 102.7 into a female-centered A/C.

Indeed, country is a "white" format. I did look up the Chicago metro area demographics to get my facts straight and indeed, in terms of ethnic breakdown, it is nearly as diverse as NYC, however, it has a much smaller percentage of its population born overseas. One also has to look at the listening preferences of the white population in the two cities too. Chicago is a Midwestern city, and stereotypes aside, I'd venture to guess that there's more white Americans in Chicago who are originally from Midwestern states and thus more used/receptive to country music, than in NYC.

Country may have done moderately well with WYNY ten years ago, but a lot has changed demographically in NYC and its suburbs in that time. Look at WPLJ for an example. It's a suburban format that plays rock and pop music, nothing too hardcore or too old. It bills well but does poorly in the overall ratings, but its great billing keeps the format going. Country would also be a suburban format, but country is a harder sell in NYC than Kelly Clarkson and Maroon 5 which PLJ plays. I'd venture to guess that a country station would not equal either the ratings or the billing of even PLJ.

Y-107's quadcast broadcast from four locations and covered pretty much all of NYC's suburbs well, but the format failed. That doesn't help country's cause in the NY area.

 

[Jeffrey]

Re: Fat chance

Country is a lily-white format. The New York metro is increasingly brown and black -- even in New Jersey, Westchester and Long Island. That's why CBS turned 102.7 into a female-centered A/C.

Indeed, country is a "white" format. I did look up the Chicago metro area demographics to get my facts straight and indeed, in terms of ethnic breakdown, it is nearly as diverse as NYC, however, it has a much smaller percentage of its population born overseas. One also has to look at the listening preferences of the white population in the two cities too. Chicago is a Midwestern city, and stereotypes aside, I'd venture to guess that there's more white Americans in Chicago who are originally from Midwestern states and thus more used/receptive to country music, than in NYC.

Country may have done moderately well with WYNY ten years ago, but a lot has changed demographically in NYC and its suburbs in that time. Look at WPLJ for an example. It's a suburban format that plays rock and pop music, nothing too hardcore or too old. It bills well but does poorly in the overall ratings, but its great billing keeps the format going. Country would also be a suburban format, but country is a harder sell in NYC than Kelly Clarkson and Maroon 5 which PLJ plays. I'd venture to guess that a country station would not equal either the ratings or the billing of even PLJ.

Y-107's quadcast broadcast from four locations and covered pretty much all of NYC's suburbs well, but the format failed. That doesn't help country's cause in the NY area.

I'm wondering where you got your stats because according to the 2000 census New York has a much larger immigrant population....http://www.census.gov/main/www/cen2000.html
Also having lived in both cities I can vouch for the fact that the demographics are enormously different and as you stated so is the mentallity among whites.
Country is huge in Chicago...there are infact many small town midwesterners that moved to the big city.
New York's best shot for country is it's already existing KTU-HD, country.

 

[neo11]

But that's what I said too...the percentage of foreign-born residents in NYC is far higher than in Chicago.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/17/1714000.html
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36/3651000.html

 

[JustinCase]

I think the entire radio industry has changed since satellite.Unless someone is in a cab or a rental car theres no way one would go back to FM from Satellite.Think about it,7 million xm subs 6 million Sirius subs thats 13 million people who left terrestrial radio,WOW thats quite a dent in the business.They should just be done with it and put Country on WNEW..What other possible format is there left? Standards? nice but never on FM in a major market.How many ways can you change around an AC format to be different.YAWN.......

Are you from NYC? I'm not sure if you are... as I'm sure many can attest too, but it's hard to listen to Satellite radio in your car here in NYC, as more than half the time it seems there is something blocking the signal... Satellite radio needs LINE OF SIGHT and nothing is worse for that than lots of tall buildings which causes your radio to cut out while you're stuck in traffic. So I use it only when I can't find anything I like on terrestrial radio, out on the open highways of NJ, PA and Upstate NY... when my free subscription runs out, I probably won't renew either... I pay enough for cable, I'm not going to pay for radio too....

 

[Jay F]

I see a lot of posts comparing New York to Chicago. Just to set the record straight Country is not huge in Chicago. In fact the country share in Chicago is smaller than in about 90% of the U.S.

The fact is that country does the worst in the largest, most ethnic markets. Even Dallas and Houston aren't nearly the big country markets they used to be 10 or 20 years ago.

 

[adma]

Country is not twang, it's not hillbilly, it's American music that mainstream people listen too.

No, it's Red American music that the mainstream people of Red America listen to. Relative to NYC, it's as palatable as a conservative Republican congressional candidate.

Remember, we're talking about a marketplace where to all too many of even the "white" mainstream, Lee Greenwood's "God Bless The USA" might as well be something out of 1930s Germany...

 

[Jeffrey]

Country is not twang, it's not hillbilly, it's American music that mainstream people listen too.

No, it's Red American music that the mainstream people of Red America listen to. Relative to NYC, it's as palatable as a conservative Republican congressional candidate.

Remember, we're talking about a marketplace where to all too many of even the "white" mainstream, Lee Greenwood's "God Bless The USA" might as well be something out of 1930s Germany...

You are 100% on target and your statement reflects the views of most New Yorkers.

 

[briancraig]

There are 18 million people in the New York market. To make any comment like "most New Yorkers think..." is idiotic. Bush beat Kerry in Staten Island and came close in Nassau and Suffolk. Not all New Yorkers are Upper East Side liberal democrats.

A country format on 102.7 would have generated unbelievable hype. It would be a nationwide story that would have given CBS tons of free publicity.

Instead most listeners will never know Fresh even exists. There is absolutely no reason for a WLTW or WPLJ listener to switch.

You would have to program country to the New York audience, but it could be done successfully. The same naysayers said WHN would not work in 1973, but it became a top 5 radio station.

One of the problems with radio today is that too many programmers think what works in one city will work in another. The big radio corps of yesterday understood this was not the case. WLS in
Chicago did not sound like WABC even though they were owned by the same company. The RKO stations, KHJ, KFRC, WRKO and WHBQ sounded like their markets. I agree you could not just duplicate WUSN and have a successful radio station in New York.

 

[Bogotaboy]

Back in it's heyday,and right up until it's last day on the air,WYNY was recognized by Arbitron as Americas most listened to Country Station with 1 million listeners and a 3 share.Back then it was a smaller company called Evergreen Media and they needed a place to launch their ''New Baby'',the new wktu so it flipped.So if it had a 3 share then,why shouldnt it get the same now,maybe even a 2 share.I think the entire radio industry has changed since satellite.Unless someone is in a cab or a rental car theres no way one would go back to FM from Satellite.Think about it,7 million xm subs 6 million Sirius subs thats 13 million people who left terrestrial radio,WOW thats quite a dent in the business.They should just be done with it and put Country on WNEW..What other possible format is there left? Standards? nice but never on FM in a major market.How many ways can you change around an AC format to be different.YAWN.......

Radio is not bought on cume, but on AQH persons, and based on ranking in each market.The #30 station in LA has more listeners than the sum of the top 5 in Palm Springs, but still does not make it on LA buys as it is looked at in comparison with the rest of the LA market.So the WYNY cume is irrelevant.

Most sat installs are in cars, and only 30% of listening is in cars. So 13 million represents really only 30% of that group's listening, or less than a half share nationally. In fact, sat subscribers are also big terrestrial users... they are just more active listeners.

 

[Bogotaboy]

I have asked the 13 people that I work with we are a close knit bunch,I asked them if they ever go back to listening to fm,most of them gasped,many said WHAT? AND WHY? Told them there was a post that I was researching,probably posted by a fm suit with his future hanging on a thread.10 said never...we are in our vehicles 8-10 hours a day and the day is much more easier with Sirius..(2 have xm).They either hit the TV or internet when they get home or a few have home kits.They all said when the weather is severe or the traffic is backed up they all hit nj101.5 get the info they need and get right back to satellite.Why would anyone go back to FM with 200 songs in a playlist with commercials and coporate idiocy.

 

[Jeffrey]

There are 18 million people in the New York market. To make any comment like "most New Yorkers think..." is idiotic. Bush beat Kerry in Staten Island and came close in Nassau and Suffolk. Not all New Yorkers are Upper East Side liberal democrats.

A country format on 102.7 would have generated unbelievable hype. It would be a nationwide story that would have given CBS tons of free publicity.

Instead most listeners will never know Fresh even exists. There is absolutely no reason for a WLTW or WPLJ listener to switch.

You would have to program country to the New York audience, but it could be done successfully. The same naysayers said WHN would not work in 1973, but it became a top 5 radio station.

One of the problems with radio today is that too many programmers think what works in one city will work in another. The big radio corps of yesterday understood this was not the case. WLS in
Chicago did not sound like WABC even though they were owned by the same company. The RKO stations, KHJ, KFRC, WRKO and WHBQ sounded like their markets. I agree you could not just duplicate WUSN and have a successful radio station in New York.

We are talking about the 5 boroughs of New York City and everyone knows that Staten Island may as well be part of New Jersey since it has very little in common with the other boroughs...and so yes, most New Yorkers are liberal democrats...it's not really an opinion.
You're obviously an advocate for country radio but seriously, how can you say a new country station in New York would generate big hype other than in your mind? Country radio in large markets is floundering. LA is recently countryless as is SF.
As for WHN is 1973, times a very different.
Anyway chances are you're not in New York City anyway and this has been discussed at nauseum and I'm bored. If you want additional reasons country isn't on in New York go back up and read the other 2000 posts.

 

[adma]

Then again, I can see why some people might have blind faith in country for NYC--after all, talk radio (We Always Broadcast Conservatives, et al) has fared quite well by programming against the market's natural "liberal" instincts.

So why is it that conservative talk succeeds in the market, while "conservative" music doesn't? Maybe because what works for prose doesn't necessarily work for poetry...

 

[Jeffrey]

Then again, I can see why some people might have blind faith in country for NYC--after all, talk radio (We Always Broadcast Conservatives, et al) has fared quite well by programming against the market's natural "liberal" instincts.

So why is it that conservative talk succeeds in the market, while "conservative" music doesn't? Maybe because what works for prose doesn't necessarily work for poetry...

odd indeed but it has been said before that typically liberals do not listen to talk radio.