Country for Frisco,zilch for NYC

[TheBigA]

Presumably because it wouldn't and doesn't sell which has been discussed ad nauseum and proven yet again with the demise of WNSH. I doubt we'll see anyone give country a try again in NYC for decades

As I've said several times, if you sell it as a traditional local NY station, which is all Audacy knows, it won't make much money.

But if there was a way for iHeart to add just one more station to its NY cluster, I believe they'd choose country, because they know how to sell the format as a national platform, not as a local station. As traditional radio usage diminishes, these companies are going to have to see radio as more than a local platform.

 

[101tm]

As I've said several times, if you sell it as a traditional local NY station, which is all Audacy knows, it won't make much money.

But if there was a way for iHeart to add just one more station to its NY cluster, I believe they'd choose country, because they know how to sell the format as a national platform, not as a local station. As traditional radio usage diminishes, these companies are going to have to see radio as more than a local platform.

Plus, iHeart would probably be willing to take a little loss to also clear their syndicated country programming in market #1 if they could. iHeart is likely the best operator to try to make country work in a difficult market. They know the format and have the resources. Beasley and Cumulus seem to know the format better than CBS and now Audacy…country is a tough format for them it seems and they didn’t have what it took for market #1.

 

[Barry]

IHeart used to broadcast Country on HD2 here, with some of the same shows they ran on many of their other stations, including Bobby Bones.
They discontinued this after Nash signed on.
I’m surprised they haven’t resumed the broadcast. It would probably not be difficult for them to do so.

 

[davideduardo]

Plus, iHeart would probably be willing to take a little loss to also clear their syndicated country programming in market #1 if they could.

Remember, the shows that are not part of iHeart's Premiere are not really "syndicated" but simply are content sent to as many stations as will benefit from the show or talent.

But if there was a way for iHeart to add just one more station to its NY cluster, I believe they'd choose country, because they know how to sell the format as a national platform, not as a local station.

But nearly all of the sales on all stations is placed at the local basis through either local direct sales or agency sales targeting each market. The network sales tends to be "discounted" and not of the same dollar quality as local

 

[TheBigA]

But nearly all of the sales on all stations is placed at the local basis through either local direct sales or agency sales targeting each market. The network sales tends to be "discounted" and not of the same dollar quality as local

National sales account for about half of the revenue at iHeart. Network sales is only a portion of the national sales.

 

[Jeffrey]

As I've said several times, if you sell it as a traditional local NY station, which is all Audacy knows, it won't make much money.

But if there was a way for iHeart to add just one more station to its NY cluster, I believe they'd choose country, because they know how to sell the format as a national platform, not as a local station. As traditional radio usage diminishes, these companies are going to have to see radio as more than a local platform.

Cumulus ONLY saw WNSH as a national flagship to their NASH brand which was all on a national level. It was an attempt to circumvent the issue of low sales for the country format in NYC and to give country a presence in market no. 1. As David has stated, it billed only 7 million at it's peak so selling country on a national level in this market apparently isn't a money maker either. If it had been my money I would have killed it even before it was Audacy.
It's a miracle WNSH lasted as long as it did.

 

[TheBigA]

As David has stated, it billed only 7 million at it's peak so selling country on a national level in this market apparently isn't a money maker either.

That $7 million figure is strictly the revenue for WNSH, not the national platform. As I said, it doesn't make sense as strictly a local station.

But the NYC clear and the addition of that audience and reach to the national platform contributed to its success.

 

[Jeffrey]

That $7 million figure is strictly the revenue for WNSH, not the national platform. As I said, it doesn't make sense as strictly a local station.

But the NYC clear and the addition of that audience and reach to the national platform contributed to its success.

Of course the 7 million was revenue for WNSH only but this NASH brand concept was a disaster. I doubt WNSH's 7M really warranted a station just to clear country in the market. I don't have final numbers but why would someone try it again when there are other options that could potentially make more money than with a niche format in NYC national level or not. Who would take that chance. High stakes in this market.

 

[Marcos_C]

Yeah, but in Spanish language radio we refer to station names, not call letters.

WSKQ-FM never called itself Super KQ. That branding stayed on the AM station. WSKQ-FM used FM 98 as its branding to emphasize its historic place as the first Spanish-language station on NYC's FM dial. The FM 98 branding continued until 1993, when it flipped to the current tropical music format and changed its branding to Mega 97.9.

 

[TheBigA]

Of course the 7 million was revenue for WNSH only but this NASH brand concept was a disaster. I doubt WNSH's 7M really warranted a station just to clear country in the market.

Once again, that $7 million is primarily local money used for local operations. You won't see the Nash Network money listed in local BIA.

iHeart's BIN might be seen as a disaster in terms of local ratings and sales. But it attracted millions from national advertisers, many of which don't normally advertise on radio.

 

[Jeffrey]

Once again, that $7 million is primarily local money used for local operations. You won't see the Nash Network money listed in local BIA.

iHeart's BIN might be seen as a disaster in terms of local ratings and sales. But it attracted millions from national advertisers, many of which don't normally advertise on radio.

but 7M is a drop in the bucket for local operations. Regardless as to whether iHeart may attract millions from national advertisers, do you really think a niche format would be the logical format choice given the stakes? Seems to me that they might go with a safer format. Not like so many are clamoring for a country station in NY accept on this board.

 

[ZantennaG1]

Not like so many are clamoring for a country station in NY accept on this board.

The average young New Yorker almost certainly has never heard of Country. The middle of the US is still fairly rural today, but NYC was urban since the 1800's. Imagine a country song about Ellis Island, or the construction of the Chrysler Building in 1930. Yeah, city dwellers do not have that rural experience to build upon unless they started out in the country. I would love to see a country station in the #1 market, but it's a far fetched ideal.

 

[davideduardo]

WSKQ-FM never called itself Super KQ. That branding stayed on the AM station. WSKQ-FM used FM 98 as its branding to emphasize its historic place as the first Spanish-language station on NYC's FM dial. The FM 98 branding continued until 1993, when it flipped to the current tropical music format and changed its branding to Mega 97.9.

Alarcón had a decade long fascination with calling stations "FM-xx" where the appendage was the rounded dial location.

FM-92 in Miami, FM-98 in LA.

In LA he even brought in voices from Miami that had the wrong vocabulary and accent for the market, and played the pop/AC songs that worked for the older and mostly Cuban audience in South Florida but which was "foreign" to the ears of Angelinos.

The most obvious error was including salsa on the LA station, as that music would drive away 99% of local listeners.

Thanks for clarifying the timeline. Keeping track of the things Alarcón Senior did is nearly impossible.

 

[davideduardo]

The average young New Yorker almost certainly has never heard of Country. The middle of the US is still fairly rural today, but NYC was urban since the 1800's. Imagine a country song about Ellis Island, or the construction of the Chrysler Building in 1930. Yeah, city dwellers do not have that rural experience to build upon unless they started out in the country. I would love to see a country station in the #1 market, but it's a far fetched ideal.

If you listen to country from the last 40 years, most songs are not about horses or pickup trucks or dirt roads.

Sure, there are songs about messing around on the banks of the Chattahoochee as a kid, but there are mostly tunes about love and life, neighbors and friends, wishes and dreams that fit most anywhere.

And, as Ed Salamon showed at WHN, one can adapt the national charts to local tastes by suppressing the "too rural" tunes and adding more compatible crossovers.

 

[Marcos_C]

The contemporary Christian and country audiences tend to overlap a lot.

As someone who has been a part of numerous Christian church groups in New York City, I disagree. Contemporary Christian songs are an integral part of the worship experience in many of those groups. Of the many people I know who have participated in those groups, only two that I can think of were country music fans. Otherwise, the topic of country music was never brought up.

 

[davideduardo]

Once again, that $7 million is primarily local money used for local operations. You won't see the Nash Network money listed in local BIA.

Yes, you will. BIA shows billing from all sources, whether local, national or regional agency or national network in source.

The reason why the BIA numbers are different than the Miller-Kaplan ones is complex.

First, clusters tend to allocate revenue among stations arbitrarily but BIA looks at the actual likelihood of those numbers based on ratings, typical power ratios for each format, etc. In one example, a two station San Diego cluster 10 to 15 years ago used to split its revenue between the two FMs equally for M-K. But the fact was that the true allocation was more like 70-30 based on format and ratings and demos. BIA made the appropriate adjustment.

Second, BIA looks at all broadcast revenue and all non-traditional revenue based on evaluations that include talking with knowledgeable people in the market. This is why stations like KIIS and KROQ that traditionally had lots of non-spot income from events, merchandise, and other sources showed as having greater

iHeart's BIN might be seen as a disaster in terms of local ratings and sales. But it attracted millions from national advertisers, many of which don't normally advertise on radio.

And, still, that revenue is attibuted to the M-K figures via allocation. That is why groups and investors and analysts pay for the BIA data to get a better "true" picture.

 

[Barry]

do you really think a niche format would be the logical format choice given the stakes? Seems to me that they might go with a safer format. Not like so many are clamoring for a country station in NY accept on this board.

Country a niche format? There are over 2,200 stations in the U.S. that offer it. I believe that's more than any other format.
I've heard plenty of stores and car radios playing Country music in northern NJ. People there are as much a part of this market as residents of Manhattan.
The classic hip-hop which replaced WNSH is not a niche format? There are only a handful of stations in existence that are devoted to it.
Country may struggle in this market, due to the complex factors related to sales and billing that have been discussed. But there are plenty of people in the area that enjoy it. Townsquare recently switched a Jersey shore AM station and two translators to Country, as an addition to Thunder Country.

 

[semoochie]

Country a niche format? There are over 2,200 stations in the U.S. that offer it. I believe that's more than any other format.
I've heard plenty of stores and car radios playing Country music in northern NJ. People there are as much a part of this market as residents of Manhattan.
The classic hip-hop which replaced WNSH is not a niche format? There are only a handful of stations in existence that are devoted to it.
Country may struggle in this market, due to the complex factors related to sales and billing that have been discussed. But there are plenty of people in the area that enjoy it. Townsquare recently switched a Jersey shore AM station and two translators to Country, as an addition to Thunder Country.

Think of it this way: New York traded Country for All News!

 

[Jeffrey]

Country a niche format? There are over 2,200 stations in the U.S. that offer it. I believe that's more than any other format.
I've heard plenty of stores and car radios playing Country music in northern NJ. People there are as much a part of this market as residents of Manhattan.
The classic hip-hop which replaced WNSH is not a niche format? There are only a handful of stations in existence that are devoted to it.
Country may struggle in this market, due to the complex factors related to sales and billing that have been discussed. But there are plenty of people in the area that enjoy it. Townsquare recently switched a Jersey shore AM station and two translators to Country, as an addition to Thunder Country.

Country radio IS a niche format in this market. Classic hip, hop is a niche format in any market. Given the demographics of the overall market and not just New Jersey, classic hip, hop is a better sell. overall. Whether there are many people or not that listen to country in New Jersey and parts of Long Island, there is no mass appeal overall in the MSA and whether there are 10 Jersey shore country stations or not is irrelevant to market 1 even if part of NJ is embedded in the market. Infact all the more reason not to have the format since the area where most country listeners would be is already covered.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

but 7M is a drop in the bucket for local operations. Regardless as to whether iHeart may attract millions from national advertisers, do you really think a niche format would be the logical format choice given the stakes? Seems to me that they might go with a safer format. Not like so many are clamoring for a country station in NY accept on this board.

So now they flipped 94.7 to classic hip hop which was supposed to be the safer format for NYC and it's ratings are still trash. Will it even make $7M now? The potential of this station is limited by its inferior signal which is staticky across much of the 5 boroughs due to both severe multipath and outright obstruction by buildings taller than the far-flung transmitter tower out in NJ. Maybe the format wasn't the problem.