0ldies was crashing and burning in a major way at 96.3. Revs were way off, # faltering and the writing was on the wall. The format had long peaked and nothing was going to turn that around. The smart decision was made to flip to Jack for two reasons, but mainly because it was felt that the format indeed was going to land somewhere in Nashville and SC made the proactive move that had paid off ever since. RQQ quickly picked up the ball and attempted to run with 0ldies, even though, in a way it was a bit unfocused. They did a decent job of promoting it, but the audience that had already dwindled at 96.3 just fragmented even more and there was nothing that could save it. A fresh approach may have helped a little (doubtful), but they just took the old logo and changed the numbers. In all honesty, with the exception of a few books, I think oldies would have been better received still today than the majority of formats since. That's not saying it would have had even a 3 share... It is true that since even 2004, oldies was a bad format in the eyes of this market. Buyers ran from it, the national mindset was against it. In all fairness, the format just needs/needed a decade off. Now, you are seeing a bit of a hit with the soft AC/oldies mix coming around. Funny, the buyers are suddenly seeing what everyone else saw long before --- 50-55+ can pay a few bills and make owners a nice income. Go figure. Anyone not proclaiming and marketing to 45+ is out of touch and in denial. (That'll get A response.)
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Coyote McCloud
- Thread starter deltas69
- Start date
Tibbs2 said:
I'm not sure that the audience had "dwindled" at WMAK before the flip. I agree revenues had dropped, but my recollection is that WMAK was a top rated oldies station 12+ up til the format flip. I believe Coyote would have been a great DJ for Jack if they'd chosen to use on air talent.
There were REAL signs of trouble on the horizon. The writing was on the wall. Danger Danger Will Robinson... being the #1 rated oldies format, when you're the only one in the format is easy. Being in the top 3 is mandatory to some real radio companies. Not #8, #10, #12. Need I give specifics? AND, most importantly, it's not always about how good you are today or certainly yesterday -- it's about tomorrow. And SC certainly proved that with Jack in this city. And Cumulus reacted and lost.
Again, not matter how good you are or were vs. how great you can become by jumping first is the true sign of being brilliant in your profession and knowing your target market. Better to have sold out a year toooo early, then one second tooooo late.
Again, not matter how good you are or were vs. how great you can become by jumping first is the true sign of being brilliant in your profession and knowing your target market. Better to have sold out a year toooo early, then one second tooooo late.
Where did I mention South Central? They didn't even enforce the non-compete! Crapuless did! (And they indeed brought in Tom Kent about a year later.)TheBigA said:
You contradict yourself here. On the one hand, you say that they left because they didn't have an audience, then you say that they left because the oldies format "went away," as you put it. Then you say that they really could have done it, after all. I don't necessarily buy that the audience "couldn't find them." Oldies 96.3 was something like #4 in the ratings when they switched, but Crapuless couldn't do that because, well, they're Crapuless. And after terminating Coyote and Cathy (and Bobby Knight, too), they enforced the non-compete. South Central was probably the winner here because they got out of oldies at the right time. I say that there is still an audience for oldies, as long as you don't call them "oldies." Age-wise, the music that 97.1 is currently playing is about as old as the "oldies" that 96.3 was playing about 10 years or so ago. But their signal constantly breaks up, and I'm only about 10-15 miles from their transmitter site. C&C had enough of an audience that some of them were ready to follow them to an AM station, if it came to that. So I believe that those who really wanted to follow them would have.
firepoint525 said:
You didn't. If Cumulus hadn't hired Coyote, he would have been gone from the airwaves a year and a half sooner. I'd say the real blame should go to them for ditching a popular and legendary air personality who could have easily fit in with Jack. That format uses personalities in some of its markets. But South Central was the cheap one who ditched all of the on-air talent. And yet get none of the blame. In fact you & Tibbs seem to be justifying their cheapness.
firepoint525 said:
There really isn't a contradiction in the two things you cite. The lack of increased audience at WRQQ is why the format went away. So in fact one thing did lead to another. They didn't bring the WMAK audience with them, despite attempts to do so, and so Cumulus dropped the format. The fact that Cumulus didn't terminate them immediately after the format flip allowed them to attempt to hold on to the audience they had for another 6 months.
well...we can all watch the oldies theory play out in San Francisco:
KKSF dumped their classic hits (formerly classic rock) format yesterday...and launched
(wait for it)
the new "Oldies 103.7". the SF board has all the details.
KKSF dumped their classic hits (formerly classic rock) format yesterday...and launched
(wait for it)
the new "Oldies 103.7". the SF board has all the details.
N
NashRadio
Guest
103.7 playlist looks pretty good to me. Not the same 300-400. A couple songs i don't know, but NONE I would not want to hear. Sinatra, the Stones + Eddie Mahoney, reminds me of the '60s.
0ldies was crashing and burning in a major way at 96.3. Revs were way off, # faltering and the writing was on the wall. The format had long peaked Is it possible listeners were so bored with the "same old song"..that the numbers were stagnating? As much as I hate to agree with a regular self appointed analyst that frequents the board when the subject of deep playlists rears it's head..he does at times make some interesting comments. $$$ were off..is that because agency's don't deal with the 55+ demo ? Seems I recall 96.3 always in the top 5 or 6 in the book..being the only games in town for that demo..they should have been getting all of that age bracket. I suppose it's possible to have good numbers..but low $$$ if agency's are not making the buy...But here's what I don't understand..you have a station in the top 5..only one of it's kind...why do agency's blow them off..there is a loyal following of mostly debt free adults that have disposable income..there's more to sell than Geritol and denture cream..Turning 60 tomorrow, and none of my friends feel like our parents did at 60. At fifty..our parents were old people...we don't feel like we are....someone needs to explain this to ad buyers..and finally..the station needed to play a hell of a lot more songs..testing be damned....... 
deltas69 said:
Today, people of the same age that you were then see you as "old" in the same way you saw your parents as old. In most companies, especially ad agencies, just as soon as a younger culture is developed, they conspire to chop the "old" out. Of course many of these ad agencies are still owned by people now in their 50s and 60s, but they've sold out their fellow boomers in order to make money off of youth. Because those who are in their 50s and 60s have refused to go as quietly into senior adulthood as our parents did, they have become a "lost" generation to media.
Well, happy birthday, in advance, from THIS clueless self unappointed unexpert, Pat. All I can say is that I have really been scratching my head for three or four years every time I read or see "evidence" that buyers wouldn't touch 55+ (or heck, even 50+). Then you L00K at every other form of advertising and "they" have been quickly turning to promoting every one of mankind's latest and greatest unnatural remedies to save our ailing and tired over 50 bodies. It's one ad after another in magazines, in what's left of newspapers and especially on TV. You cannot watch one hour of TV without being bombarded with these depressing, keeping you down (or is that up?) commercials. TV has kicked radio in this area for years.
The mindset and logic that anyone over 45 is too broke, or too set in their buying habits, or too old is flat out flawed. Sure, there are many more Viagra spots on radio than five years ago.
My take is that radio needs to shorten the spots to 15 or 20 second spot, 30 max and virtually do away with 60's. PPM says move it along faster! Yet, what drags a stations momentum down the most? Tom Shane! JUst kidding, I think. Seriously, radio thinks the saving grace is in the younger demographics STILL. I think that demo is certainly aware of radio, but it's not their first choice. And the audience that would make radio their first choice has all but been abandoned years before they should have. Maybe the proof will be in these stations coming "back" in SF and Miami, etc., but I just gotta think Delta's right --- 50, 60, 70 isn't what 50, 60, 70 was 20-25 years ago. Heck, Sarge is 98 and he sounds 45, still and women still think he's "hot." Turning 50 in a year and a half, I have to say, no matter what city I visit, I feel like there are few decent musical choices in any market that I would/can listen too. I grew up with Top 40, worked almost exclusively with that format over the years and I cannot make it through three songs in a row with that format today. Yet, you have 3 to 5 stations in almost every market competing for an audience that's not as intent on listening. And countless listeners that had been loyal for years left out in the cold.
The mindset and logic that anyone over 45 is too broke, or too set in their buying habits, or too old is flat out flawed. Sure, there are many more Viagra spots on radio than five years ago.
My take is that radio needs to shorten the spots to 15 or 20 second spot, 30 max and virtually do away with 60's. PPM says move it along faster! Yet, what drags a stations momentum down the most? Tom Shane! JUst kidding, I think. Seriously, radio thinks the saving grace is in the younger demographics STILL. I think that demo is certainly aware of radio, but it's not their first choice. And the audience that would make radio their first choice has all but been abandoned years before they should have. Maybe the proof will be in these stations coming "back" in SF and Miami, etc., but I just gotta think Delta's right --- 50, 60, 70 isn't what 50, 60, 70 was 20-25 years ago. Heck, Sarge is 98 and he sounds 45, still and women still think he's "hot." Turning 50 in a year and a half, I have to say, no matter what city I visit, I feel like there are few decent musical choices in any market that I would/can listen too. I grew up with Top 40, worked almost exclusively with that format over the years and I cannot make it through three songs in a row with that format today. Yet, you have 3 to 5 stations in almost every market competing for an audience that's not as intent on listening. And countless listeners that had been loyal for years left out in the cold.
Looking at the real #'s! It was #6-#8 toward the end, IIRC, and I could be wrong. Look at post Christmas, 2004. What was the CUME? Yes, it was a top contender for years. So was KX 104, Y107 and 96 Kiss. So was Star 106, Joy 106 and every other radio station that Buddy Sadler touched, I am sure. Just missing you on radio after your posts last night! Like everything, there is a product life cycle. Look at the obvious -it was no longer at it's highest potential, it had internal issues, the revenues were decreasing and anyone with a bit of business sense could see that their was no way to really turn it's slow and eventual decline down. Look at where Jack has been since May, 2005. Top #1 or #2 most of the time. Revenues improved, even through the bad economy that public radio missed (joking). The demo was and is solid. What more could anyone ask for? Settling on just accepting to be #4, #6 or #17 is exactly what is wrong with big corporate radio. And, it's why radio is not what it was. Don't ever settle for it being okay to just land somewhere up close to the top. It's the process that matters...and if your Cutouturlass, it's the processing as of late, I guess.
Tibbs2 said:
They didn't settle. That's why they flipped the format in 2005. And there isn't a single company that settles for anything. Everyone is under pressure to improve over last year. That's usually the issue that leads to people getting fired. What have you done for me lately? Sorry, I don't see the lethargy you seem to feel exists. The turnover in PDs during the past year indicates that no one is satisfied with where they are.
My comment was about the songs they played. Enlarging the playlist of WMAK was not going to improve the stations ratings, demos, or billings.
(facepalm) The radio industry has lost a very talented individual and this thread has transformed into a poo flinging extravaganza.
I only heard him live on skip and on airchecks. Coyote was always fun, entertaining and according to former co-workers a genuinely good person.
I only heard him live on skip and on airchecks. Coyote was always fun, entertaining and according to former co-workers a genuinely good person.
NO SWISS..NOT YOU.. im referring to our resident lurker from the west coast..Eduardo..and yes sorry the thread had slipped toward another topic..so..getting back to Coyote..I haven't seen anything about the funeral, a memorial service..or anything related. On the day the news hit the paper.. a big story on a tree that fell over at Cheekwood complete with pic above the fold on the front page..and yet Coyote's demise was relegated to page three or so ..now i will confess..I haven't turned my tv on since the end of football season..so in all fairness I may have missed any news..I wish I had worked with him longer...I'm sure he was a treasure trove of info about all the biz and artists he knew first hand..
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