Cumulus CHR's are the worst I've ever heard

[bchristi]

Good analysis CHRles. I think the biggest problem is not only the recurrents they play but the number of recurrents per hour as well. Most of the recurrents they play did well nationwide when they were new. Songs like "Bad Romance", "Paparazzi", "Replay", "California Gurls", "Tik Tok", "Live Your Life", etc. Even if they play mostly recurrents during off hours of the day they should try to keep it current during prime evening hours. Burned out rhythmic songs from 2009 don't make a very enjoyable listen during the afternoon drive.

You did mention a couple of CHRs that have managed to escape the Jeffries playlist. I wonder how they managed to do it?

 

[RollTide]

CHRles, I think you are spot on there.

Some Cumulus stations are worse than others. There is a significantly noticable difference, for example, in WZYP Huntsville and 99.5 The Vibe in Birmingham, and they are neighboring markets. Does anyones Cumulus "CHR" still play 80s music? WZYP still does : :

 

[bchristi]

CHRles, I think you are spot on there.

Some Cumulus stations are worse than others. There is a significantly noticable difference, for example, in WZYP Huntsville and 99.5 The Vibe in Birmingham, and they are neighboring markets. Does anyones Cumulus "CHR"  still play 80s music? WZYP still does  : :

You serious? '80s on a CHR? Cumulus Hot AC KYIS doesn't even play 80s music though it did under Citadel. That is one station that I think has improved under Cumulus. KKWD does go back frequently as far as the '90s. Songs like "No Diggity", "Can I Get A...", and "Hypnotize" by Notorious BIG are regular recurrents. Having those songs isn't as bad as the burned out Ke$ha songs from 2009 though. Those '90s songs have been recurrents on the station since its early days when it did well under Citadel and reported as CHR/Rhythmic.

 

[RonM]

Although, to clarify RollTide's comment, WZYP plays blocks of 80s (and 90s) music during the noon hour on weekdays and 6-9 AM on Fridays. Why they continue to do this is mind-boggling, to say the least!

 

[bchristi]

Although, to clarify RollTide's comment, WZYP plays blocks of 80s (and 90s) music during the noon hour on weekdays and 6-9 AM on Fridays. Why they continue to do this is mind-boggling, to say the least!

Agreed. Any station that still does that is no doubt a Hot AC. Does the FCC have a requirement for a station reporting as CHR as far as percentage of currents vs recurrents and gold? If so, I wonder if many Cumulus stations actually meet the requirement.

Back in the '90s, ClearChannel KJYO had "Way Back Wednesdays" when they would play '80s music but it wasn't continuous.

 

[atlantaboy]

Huh? CBS doesn't have a CHR in Hartford - Kiss 95.7 is Clear Channel

Rhythmic Top 40 WZMX/Hartford is owned by CBS, which has beaten WKSS numerous times since 2001.

Rhythmic stations are not CHRs, any more than Hot ACs are - similar to stating that WTIC is "beating" WKSS

 

[atlantaboy]

Yes, Power 96.1 beat Q100, but that was only because people weren't listening to Q100 because they wanted to hear CHRISTMAS MUSIC, remember?

Yes...not sure what all your sarcastic smily faces are for

Every year for the past decade, Q100 and Star have lost listeners to B98.5 over the holidays, and then gained them back in January

Try to digest that, if you're capable

 

[bchristi]

Yes, Power 96.1 beat Q100, but that was only because people weren't listening to Q100 because they wanted to hear CHRISTMAS MUSIC, remember?

Yes...not sure what all your sarcastic smily faces are for

Every year for the past decade, Q100 and Star have lost listeners to B98.5 over the holidays, and then gained them back in January

Try to digest that, if you're capable

The younger audience that is targeted by CHR is generally not the largest demographic for 24/7 Christmas music from Thanksgiving to Christmas. More than likely the effect of Christmas music on CHR ratings is negligible. The only way that theory holds any weight is if Q100's actual listener base is more Hot AC than CHR.

 

[atlantaboy]

Yes, Power 96.1 beat Q100, but that was only because people weren't listening to Q100 because they wanted to hear CHRISTMAS MUSIC, remember?

Yes...not sure what all your sarcastic smily faces are for

Every year for the past decade, Q100 and Star have lost listeners to B98.5 over the holidays, and then gained them back in January

Try to digest that, if you're capable

The younger audience that is targeted by CHR is generally not the largest demographic for 24/7 Christmas music from Thanksgiving to Christmas. More than likely the effect of Christmas music on CHR ratings is negligible. The only way that theory holds any weight is if Q100's actual listener base is more Hot AC than CHR.

It is (that goes without saying) - Q100 targets 25-44 women, especially during the workday, and every year (at least for the past couple) they lose about the same amount of Christmas listeners to B98.5 that Star 94 does

I think the biggest problem with Power is that they just plain skip huge hits - it's great to have an exciting presentation, but if huge Top 10 tracks are completely absent from the playlist, or added sporatically (on one week, off the next, etc.), a big chunk of the 18-34 crowd is going to listen to Q100, especially in the evenings/on weekends when most of their playlist is current

 

[carolinaradio]

Try to digest that, if you're capable

Keep at it with your childish insults, if you wish. Not hurting me in the least.

If they are losing to B-98.5, as you claim (meaning, they were still losing to Power 96, which is the main point here), then they apparently don't care about staying on top of the CHR competition. They are more concerned overall with competing with AC and Hot AC stations than the biggest threat they've had in years which is a real CHR (so I don't see why there should be a Q vs. Power debate). Power, right now, is very close in the rear view mirror and it won't take much on Power's part to knock them down.

Look, if after this little amount of time, Power can rise steadily, beat Q in 2 books and remain dangerously close in the most recent, it's not going to take much for them to pull ahead. Power after 6 months is tenths of a point behind a station with very wide brand recognition and a very popular morning show. That's not bad, it's impressive. All it'll take is for Wild to go away and I think Power will pull ahead with those leftover listeners that like rhythmic pop. I don't think skipping a top 10 hit has much effect on their performance, if anything, Q's resistance to new music cancels that out.

 

[atlantaboy]

All it'll take is for Wild to go away and I think Power will pull ahead with those leftover listeners that like rhythmic pop. I don't think skipping a top 10 hit has much effect on their performance, if anything, Q's resistance to new music cancels that out.

The statement about Wild going away is true, but it's the equivalent of stating that if Star 94 went away, Q100's share would go up.

Completely disagree about the Top 10 hit part - Power, in its last few months, has skipped two big Top 10 hits completely, and has sporadically added, then canceled, then added, then canceled two big Top 3 hits. Q100 is resistant to new music, but at least they eventually play all Top 10 hits by the time they're at the height of their popularity

 

[atlantaboy]

it won't take much on Power's part to knock them down.

You understand that you're assuming that Power can pick up listeners easier than Q100 can, either because Power is closer to your own personal music taste, or because their presentation is quicker.

You could just as well say that "it won't take much on Q100's part to knock down Power"

Again, between the two stations, Q100 eventually plays all the big hits (at the height of their popularity), while Power only plays some of them - meaning IMO Q100 has the advantage

 

[RollTide]

Although, to clarify RollTide's comment, WZYP plays blocks of 80s (and 90s) music during the noon hour on weekdays and 6-9 AM on Fridays. Why they continue to do this is mind-boggling, to say the least!

Agreed

I think the biggest problem with Power is that they just plain skip huge hits - it's great to have an exciting presentation, but if huge Top 10 tracks are completely absent from the playlist, or added sporatically (on one week, off the next, etc.), a big chunk of the 18-34 crowd is going to listen to Q100, especially in the evenings/on weekends when most of their playlist is current

I have to agree with you there. I don't understand why CC is doing this with Power. I can understand if they want a rhythmic lean and therefore wait on the rock tracks to prove themselves before they add them, but once they reach top 10 they should be added, period.

 

[chrocket87]

Completely disagree about the Top 10 hit part - Power, in its last few months, has skipped two big Top 10 hits completely, and has sporadically added, then canceled, then added, then canceled two big Top 3 hits.

Admittedly, I only check their playlist on occasion, but what songs have they completely skipped? I've seen that they've played about every top 10 hit I can think of that's come out since they debuted when I check their playlist.
I've never understood why they add songs to power rotation, then delete them, then move them back in at Power (I have noticed this as well). I remember former Alternative WKRK/Cleveland doing that as well, giving songs 30-40 spins one week, then dropping them completely off the following week, then re-adding them. This was a CBS station, so it's not a CC thing. If songs really test that badly on Power, so they're deleting songs, I can understand that. But why re-add them a week or two later? Can a song really test that much better in two weeks?

 

[bchristi]

Although, to clarify RollTide's comment, WZYP plays blocks of 80s (and 90s) music during the noon hour on weekdays and 6-9 AM on Fridays. Why they continue to do this is mind-boggling, to say the least!

Agreed

I think the biggest problem with Power is that they just plain skip huge hits - it's great to have an exciting presentation, but if huge Top 10 tracks are completely absent from the playlist, or added sporatically (on one week, off the next, etc.), a big chunk of the 18-34 crowd is going to listen to Q100, especially in the evenings/on weekends when most of their playlist is current

I have to agree with you there. I don't understand why CC is doing this with Power. I can understand if they want a rhythmic lean and therefore wait on the rock tracks to prove themselves before they add them, but once they reach top 10 they should be added, period.

One thing great about CC that was also great about Citadel is the individual stations can choose what to add or not add or if they want to lean rock or rhythmic they have that freedom. Back in the early 2000s when CHR was pretty rock heavy compared to today, there were many stations that leaned rhythmic and pop and ignored rock completely. In addition, prior to around 2001 or 2002 it was not uncommon for CHR to ignore rap completely, even if it was doing well on the pop charts.

 

[atlantaboy]

Completely disagree about the Top 10 hit part - Power, in its last few months, has skipped two big Top 10 hits completely, and has sporadically added, then canceled, then added, then canceled two big Top 3 hits.

Admittedly, I only check their playlist on occasion, but what songs have they completely skipped?

They completed skipped "Home" and "The A Team", and they just barely played "Ho Hey", "Some Nights", and "Everybody Talks" (added when they went Top 3, they completed removed them from the playlist, then added back the next week, then deleted, etc.)

All these songs BTW had high callout from teens - as does "It's Time", which is now #13 and nowhere on Power's playlist - the only reason I can think of to ignore them would be so not to alienate the ethnic audience that they've brought over from Wild - which is valid for Clear Channel to do - but I don't think that's going to be enough to topple Q100

 

[bchristi]

Completely disagree about the Top 10 hit part - Power, in its last few months, has skipped two big Top 10 hits completely, and has sporadically added, then canceled, then added, then canceled two big Top 3 hits.

Admittedly, I only check their playlist on occasion, but what songs have they completely skipped?

They completed skipped "Home" and "The A Team", and they just barely played "Ho Hey", "Some Nights", and "Everybody Talks" (added when they went Top 3, they completed removed them from the playlist, then added back the next week, then deleted, etc.)

All these songs BTW had high callout from teens - as does "It's Time", which is now #13 and nowhere on Power's playlist - the only reason I can think of to ignore them would be so not to alienate the ethnic audience that they've brought over from Wild - which is valid for Clear Channel to do - but I don't think that's going to be enough to topple Q100

Those songs they skipped are understandable on a rhythmic leaning station. They appeal more to a white hipster audience so its understandable to skip them if going for an ethnic audience. It's all about what works in what market. It's what Cumulus needs to learn.

 

[carolinaradio]

I've never been a big fan of generalizations - yes, "ethnic" audiences have more of a tendency to listen to rhythmic (especially those targeted by Urban stations, to put it politely) music, but there are plenty of "ethnics" who enjoy pop/rock music, just like there are Caucasian listeners that enjoy hip hop/rhythmic.

Yeah, if Star 94 went away, Q could/would go up (just like if Kicks went away, Bull would go up, Star went away, B98 would go up, etc), but my point was more that CC CAN make something taking audience from Power go away - Wild - all they have to do is blow it up and I bet they could add about half to a point to Power, which could put it ahead if Q. What I would be interested in knowing is if Q is more worried now about Star or Power. Apparently they are still worried about Star.

Power is still relatively new - so they'll probably keep adjusting until they find their groove. Channel 96.1 in Charlotte was very similar to where Power is now after they transitioned from full-blown Rhythmic CHR and started saying "All the hits." They did the same thing with the adding/dropping.

 

[bchristi]

I've never been a big fan of generalizations - yes, "ethnic" audiences have more of a tendency to listen to rhythmic (especially those targeted by Urban stations, to put it politely) music, but there are plenty of "ethnics" who enjoy pop/rock music, just like there are Caucasian listeners that enjoy hip hop/rhythmic.

Yeah, if Star 94 went away, Q could/would go up (just like if Kicks went away, Bull would go up, Star went away, B98 would go up, etc), but my point was more that CC CAN make something taking audience from Power go away - Wild - all they have to do is blow it up and I bet they could add about half to a point to Power, which could put it ahead if Q. What I would be interested in knowing is if Q is more worried now about Star or Power. Apparently they are still worried about Star.

Power is still relatively new - so they'll probably keep adjusting until they find their groove. Channel 96.1 in Charlotte was very similar to where Power is now after they transitioned from full-blown Rhythmic CHR and started saying "All the hits." They did the same thing with the adding/dropping.

Yeah I remember that. 96.1 The Beat sounded great, but once they started trying to find their niche as a CHR they didn't sound so good. After a while, they got the kinks worked out and now its an awesome sounding CHR.

Rhythmic CHRs like 96.1 The Beat was are a dying breed in 2013. "Hits and Hip-Hop" no longer works. Something else Cumulus needs to learn and apply to their more rhythmic leaning CHRs. Ringtone rap songs from 2007 don't belong on a modern CHR even if they were big hits back then.

 

[atlantaboy]

Completely disagree about the Top 10 hit part - Power, in its last few months, has skipped two big Top 10 hits completely, and has sporadically added, then canceled, then added, then canceled two big Top 3 hits.

Admittedly, I only check their playlist on occasion, but what songs have they completely skipped?

They completed skipped "Home" and "The A Team", and they just barely played "Ho Hey", "Some Nights", and "Everybody Talks" (added when they went Top 3, they completed removed them from the playlist, then added back the next week, then deleted, etc.)

All these songs BTW had high callout from teens - as does "It's Time", which is now #13 and nowhere on Power's playlist - the only reason I can think of to ignore them would be so not to alienate the ethnic audience that they've brought over from Wild - which is valid for Clear Channel to do - but I don't think that's going to be enough to topple Q100

Those songs they skipped are understandable on a rhythmic leaning station. They appeal more to a white hipster audience so its understandable to skip them if going for an ethnic audience. It's all about what works in what market. It's what Cumulus needs to learn.

It's not necessarily "working" - Power is losing, and Cumulus is winning

By appealing specifically to an ethnic audience, CC is ceding the mainstream CHR/Pop throne to Q100 - I guess it's a safer move, but not necessarily the best move in the long run - especially given what happened to 96.1 The Beat in Charlotte, a very similar market - they weren't able to pull ahead of Kiss 95.1 until they started adding a sufficient amount of pop/rock, competing with WNKS directly rather than from the rhythmic side