It pretty much takes a Top 10 to Top 12 market for All News to work. Even then, ones like Atlanta and Houston have failed. It's not just the cost; it is both the culture and mentality/lifestyle of the market.
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Buffalo Cumulus sells AM to Buddy Shula
- Thread starter exdjted
- Start date
IMHO: The Atlanta all news failed be cause:
#1 Cumulus under Dickey management didn't have the financial strength to run the format for a couple of years at a loss to develop a following. I believe it was less than 9 months till they started paid programing and then later put the Kimmer on afternoons.
#2 They never developed a local news gathering team. They had too few in numbers and counted on Fox 5 news. WSB had the advantage of working with and being co-owned with the AJC and Channel 2. When I did local news I can tell you from personal experience, it takes time to develop trust an recognition with the various PIOs, spokespersons and elected officials.
#3 The actual presentation was boring. It seemed the actual on air news reader was distracted and was concentrating on other stuff rather than putting a little energy on what they were reading.
#4 Institutional lack of experience with all news. Westinghouse/ CBS have been doing all news for literally for multiple decades. CBS was flipping 92.9 around the same time. They could have gone all news, but they went sports. I don't blame them, but had they gone all news they could have grabbed CBS radio news which WSB got. Most likely they had the folks in company they could have promoted and moved to Atlanta to make a better product. We will never know what CBS could have done with all news on 92.9, but I am afraid there will never be an all news station in Atlanta in my lifetime. I am a fan of all news but I WAS WRONG.
Not true. The station went all news in May 2012. They went news talk in May 2014. They didn't start adding talk shows until November 2013, but were still all news for 21 hours a day until May 2014.
WYAY Relaunches As NewsRadio 106.7
Cumulus' "All News 106.7" WYAY Atlanta is shifting to News/Talk today. The move coincides with the debut today of Michael
radioinsight.com
Adding talk to all news was already being done at WBZ Boston and KTAR Phoenix. The NYC all news stations had each carried Mets and Yankees play by play at one time or another and it didn't affect their ratings.
Not true. Their use of Channel 5 was mainly for weather. Regardless, the TV station had all the local contacts necessary to cover local news. How many people do you need to report on the same stories?
The anchors were all locally hired from CNN Radio, which had recently shut down. They were all experienced news people who lived in Atlanta. News is a boring format. That's why it's such a hit with NPR. Atlanta's NPR station got better ratings. A lot of former WCBS listeners in NY don't like the presentation on WINS because they say it's too "happy" and "friendly."
CBS Radio knew all news in Atlanta was a bad idea. They had flipped a station in DC to all news and it was a flop. CBS hasn't had success launching an all news station in over 20 years.
In fact, if you broaden the view, there hasn't been a successful launch of an all news station anywhere this century. Buffalo's own Randy Michaels started Merlin Media in 2011, and flipped rock FM stations in NY and Chicago to all news, and they both flopped. He ended up selling the stations at a loss and closed the company.
The real reason why all news flopped in Atlanta and Houston is because by 2012, most people get their news from the internet. The news audience is old, and they stick with the familiar favorite, which in Atlanta is WSB. They added an FM simulcast in 2010, so Atlantans already had two FM options for news.
I doubt very much anyone will attempt all news anywhere ever again.
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Name an all news station started from scratch in the last 30 years that succeeded.
For that, you need to look to Canada, but even then, 680 Toronto went all news in 1993, not 1995.
They are very successful today. The two talkers, AM 640 and NT 1010 are failing miserably.
I still doubt Buddy has any plans to deal with a news driven format, regardless.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but a music driven format of some sort will always be a lot cheaper to run.
Not true. The station went all news in May 2012. They went news talk in May 2014. They didn't start adding talk shows until November 2013, but were still all news for 21 hours a day until May 2014.
WYAY Relaunches As NewsRadio 106.7
Cumulus' "All News 106.7" WYAY Atlanta is shifting to News/Talk today. The move coincides with the debut today of Michael
Adding talk to all news was already being done at WBZ Boston and KTAR Phoenix. The NYC all news stations had each carried Mets and Yankees play by play at one time or another and it didn't affect their ratings.
Not true. Their use of Channel 5 was mainly for weather. Regardless, the TV station had all the local contacts necessary to cover local news. How many people do you need to report on the same stories?
The anchors were all locally hired from CNN Radio, which had recently shut down. They were all experienced news people who lived in Atlanta. News is a boring format. That's why it's such a hit with NPR. Atlanta's NPR station got better ratings. A lot of former WCBS listeners in NY don't like the presentation on WINS because they say it's too "happy" and "friendly."
CBS Radio knew all news in Atlanta was a bad idea. They had flipped a station in DC to all news and it was a flop. CBS hasn't had success launching an all news station in over 20 years.
In fact, if you broaden the view, there hasn't been a successful launch of an all news station anywhere this century. Buffalo's own Randy Michaels started Merlin Media in 2011, and flipped rock FM stations in NY and Chicago to all news, and they both flopped. He ended up selling the stations at a loss and closed the company.
The real reason why all news flopped in Atlanta and Houston is because by 2012, most people get their news from the internet. The news audience is old, and they stick with the familiar favorite, which in Atlanta is WSB. They added an FM simulcast in 2010, so Atlantans already had two FM options for news.
I doubt very much anyone will attempt all news anywhere ever again.
I listened to 106.7 and the majority of the field reports where from Fox 5 folks on their AM local news marithon. The folks they picked up from CNN had worked at a failed news service. I realize not everyone has the energy level of Paul Harvey but at least have some inflection in your voice. I know it's it different markets but if you could compare WBBM or either of the NYC stations to 106.7 you would use adjectives like paint drying for 106.7. I knew the first time I heard all news on WYAY it would fail.Not true. The station went all news in May 2012. They went news talk in May 2014. They didn't start adding talk shows until November 2013, but were still all news for 21 hours a day until May 2014.
WYAY Relaunches As NewsRadio 106.7
Cumulus' "All News 106.7" WYAY Atlanta is shifting to News/Talk today. The move coincides with the debut today of Michael
Adding talk to all news was already being done at WBZ Boston and KTAR Phoenix. The NYC all news stations had each carried Mets and Yankees play by play at one time or another and it didn't affect their ratings.
Not true. Their use of Channel 5 was mainly for weather. Regardless, the TV station had all the local contacts necessary to cover local news. How many people do you need to report on the same stories?
The anchors were all locally hired from CNN Radio, which had recently shut down. They were all experienced news people who lived in Atlanta. News is a boring format. That's why it's such a hit with NPR. Atlanta's NPR station got better ratings. A lot of former WCBS listeners in NY don't like the presentation on WINS because they say it's too "happy" and "friendly."
CBS Radio knew all news in Atlanta was a bad idea. They had flipped a station in DC to all news and it was a flop. CBS hasn't had success launching an all news station in over 20 years.
In fact, if you broaden the view, there hasn't been a successful launch of an all news station anywhere this century. Buffalo's own Randy Michaels started Merlin Media in 2011, and flipped rock FM stations in NY and Chicago to all news, and they both flopped. He ended up selling the stations at a loss and closed the company.
The real reason why all news flopped in Atlanta and Houston is because by 2012, most people get their news from the internet. The news audience is old, and they stick with the familiar favorite, which in Atlanta is WSB. They added an FM simulcast in 2010, so Atlantans already had two FM options for news.
I doubt very much anyone will attempt all news anywhere ever again.
It's been a long time so I am not sure of the dates but I believe they had already picked most of the WGST paid weekend programming before the hybrid talk news thing.
IMHO it's was difficult to read internet news in a car during rush hour(s) back then. Folks now still get tickets for not blue toothing their phone!
I said I didn't blame CBS for doing sport talk on 92.9. A whole lot less expensive, very little audience "building time" (680 was successful already) and very sellable demos.
Both of us could argue minor points and I shouldn't have said less than 2 years but to recap my last sentence: We will never know if CBS or even Cox had done all news in Atlanta it might have succeeded.
depending on your music licensing and the amount of staff you hire to do live/tracked shows, no its not..... a talk staiton with one or no local hosts will be cheaper then a music station
That's once again not true. CNN Radio was successful, but its radio syndicator also handled several other similar TV-branded news networks, and needed to cut one. CNN got cut. No need to blame quality news people for a corporate decision.
You seem to be looking for excuses that skirt around the fact that the people of Atlanta were satisfied with the options they had for news radio, and saw no need for another one. It could have been the greatest news staff ever, and WSB would stayed #1.
The situation in Buffalo is very similar. The audience for WBEN isn't really screaming for an alternative. But if one popped up, it might shave off a point or two. The previous owner of WECK tried doing news/talk back in 2008 and ultimately gave up. Buddy knows all about it, and I'm sure he won't make the same mistakes they did.
RAMP took a slightly different approach to reporting this story. Instead of using a logo, they posted a picture of Buddy!
Radio One Buffalo Acquires WHLD-AM
• Buddy Shula's Radio One Buffalo announced it will acquire 5,000-watt WHLD-AM 1270/Niagara Falls, NY (currently Conservative Talk) from Cumulus Media in a deal that will give Radio One Buffalo a pair of giant AMs (along with WECK-AM) serving the Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY market. "This is a...
ramp247.com
All-news didn’t fail in Houston. iHeart* murdered it.
(* = actually Clear Channel then, if I recall correctly. Same diff.)
Or, like a huge percentage of smaller market stations, you take a syndicated format (the ones we used to call "satellite" formats) that is now totally configurable to your needs for commercial load, news, special programs and other considerations. News/talkers still pay music licensing for bumpers, music in ads, etc.
Whichever of the mostly syndicated formats you use, the difference in music licensing fees is not going to be the deciding factor. It's mostly going to be how the local business community will "like" each format option.
Looks like he is working on a nice tan in Key West!RAMP took a slightly different approach to reporting this story. Instead of using a logo, they posted a picture of Buddy!
Radio One Buffalo Acquires WHLD-AM
• Buddy Shula's Radio One Buffalo announced it will acquire 5,000-watt WHLD-AM 1270/Niagara Falls, NY (currently Conservative Talk) from Cumulus Media in a deal that will give Radio One Buffalo a pair of giant AMs (along with WECK-AM) serving the Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY market. "This is a...ramp247.com
Seriously, Buddy is kinda' a model for involved, locally owned and operated radio.
D
Deleted member 108832
Guest
That's somewhat true, Mark. News 92's biggest issue was that it was always handicapped with a signal that really wasn't usable in the northern third of the market. iHeart simply benefitted from the heritage of KTRH and Houstonians being trained to go to 740 any time inclement weather or major news stories were the focus of the day. Problem was, 740 was already being cut to the bone by that point. Some of the folks on KROI were, at one time, synonymous with their previous tenures at KTRH.
Radio One put a ton of resources behind the station, and it was staffed with a who's who of recognized talent possessing years and years of experience within a newsroom. It didn't matter. With the signal 92.1 had before the latest upgrade, and like 97.5 before it, all the time, effort, and money put towards it was done in futility. It's actually quite a shame. The formula was right, the execution was right, but it was on the wrong facility for it to succeed. Unfortunately, at the time, Radio One only had it, Magic and The Box. Now, had they owned the 106.9/107.5 duo back then, well, we might not be having this conversation today.
The all news station, KROI, there was run by Radio One / Urban One, wasn't it?
And in the case of 640 and 1010, you can look DIRECTLY to their owners(Corus & Bell)as to why. Recall that Bell gutted 1010's newsroom a few years ago and it angered Dave Agar(former CFRB ND)so much that he demanded they take his name OFF the CFRB newsroom(these days, I believe they get their newscasts at least in part from CTV Toronto)/
As you correctly surmised, I believe, I’m referring to KTRH’s run as all-news, which lasted much longer than RadioOne. It started positioning as all-news around September 1984, if memory serves, though middays were interview shows (with Wayne Dolcefino) and sports talk in early evenings (Jerry Trupiano, Tom Franklin, et al.). I started there in February 1985. The midday interview shows were dropped about 13 or 14 months after September ‘84 when a new news director took over. Although as a human being he was terrible, he understood systems and execution well, and was mostly sound regarding journalism in general; he was the one who instituted the version of the all-news format that endured for at least a decade and a half. I don’t remember exactly when Clear Channel took over (I was long gone by then), but, shortly afterward, it installed its cookie-cutter talk/news concept and laid off a whole bunch of people.
It was nice that KROI brought back J.P. Pritchard and Lana Hughes (who are both wonderful people), among other folks, but the all-news format needed a full-market signal to succeed and 92.1 wasn’t that, as you correctly note below.
And it’s too late to bring it back. So Houstonians are stuck with a propaganda outlet masquadering from time to time as a news station, programming to a demographic dead end. To avoid ambiguity, that’s a reference to KTRH.
I’d say that I wonder what Jay Jones (Jesse H. Jones II) thinks of what happened to his family’s marquee radio stations, but I suspect he’s moved on.
It’s very weird to me that KTRH and KPRC aren’t competing to keep each other on their toes, but that’s what consolidation hath wrought.
My reference was to KTRH.
I find it hard to believe any public corporation would just shut down anything that generates enough positive cash flow to contribute to overhead unless shutting it down lowers overhead more than the positive cash flow. Selling a division that's a drag on earnings happens all the time. If CNN radio had positive cash flow, someone would have bought it. Almost every corporation of any size had shareholders (usually funds with accountants) that think they can run the company better than the current management. Improperly desposing of assets would make for interesting shareholders's meetings. I have a friend that worked there but he managed to get transferred to the TV CNN in New York a couple of years earlier.
Big A did you ever listen to All News 106.7? If so what was really good about it? Compared to the CBS stations at that time I was disappointed. IMHO their jingles were poor, there was very little "banter" between on air folks, (I realize some folks want "robotic" reading of the scripts just a personal preference), and they didn't have as good of traffic as WSB.
WSB was not invincible, WGST on 920 AM gave them a serious challenge even before they got 105.7.
Believe what you want to believe. Nowhere in my post did I say anything about "positive cash flow." I said CNN Radio wasn't shut down because of the quality of its staff.
I think that's irrelevant to a discussion on the Buffalo board. All I'm saying is that all news as a format is not going to happen in Buffalo.
In radio, that used to happen all-the-time, especially right after the two waves of consolidation started in '92 and '96. Companies bought their competition and tried to combine it with their properties. That often involved them thinking, "Both of these properties are successful, but we don't need two of them. We can get the same revenue with one station and expand our offerings with something new on the second." Sometimes it worked; others, it didn't. In the case of CNN Radio, the syndicator had multiple news products and decided it didn't need all of them. It probably figured it could shift most of the revenue from CNN Radio to its other services and cut costs in the process. Don't know if it worked out for the syndicator or not; most business decisions come with risk.
The problems with all news formats are that they are expensive to start, and revenue tends to grow slowly. If anybody can navigate that mine field, it might still work, but the long-term revenue is not promised while the short-term expenses are guaranteed. That's always going to be a hard sell to management. Buddy is unlikely to take on that risk himself in Buffalo, though he will likely have at least some local news if he goes the news/talk route with 1270.
I was under the impression that you thought 106.7 had a great air staff and great news product.
I agree all news would be financial suicide in Buffalo. Not enough population.