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Cuomo's Budget Calls for 10% State Cut in Public Broadcasting Funding

Paul_Warren said:
Bob1370 said:
"Only commercial television is free."

Listener-in put it best, in that commercial broadcasting is a deductible (and therefore tax-exempt on the ad-buyer's end) business expense that's reflected in the cost of anything you buy that is or has been advertised, from restaurant meals to cars...

...I also guess VoR has no problem with the tens of millioms Comcast will pay Dan Burke for running NBC this year (all of which will eventually come out of our pockets in the advertising budget for our purchases), or the $15 million CBS will pay Les Moonves and Katie Couric each. His outrage is extremely selective, and demands explanation he seems unwilling to give.

Bob, advertising is tax exempt because it is a legitimate expense of doing business, just as much as the electric bill. If you choose not to consume the product, you don't have to pay the portion that goes to advertising. If the company did no advertising, the net result could be increased prices as volume dropped......

The "shareholders" in publicly-funded broadcasting are everyone who pays taxes, whether they choose to consume the product or not. If you operate your enterprise in a funding model which requires millions of involuntary stakeholders with $2 investments (through taxes), you're going to have to live with the headaches of criticism from millions of partners who know nothing about business.

Either unwittingly or perhaps on purpose, you entirely miss the Bob's point. It matters not that advertising is a legitimate cost of doing business; it remains a fact that, as a tax-deductible expense, it is being subsidized by the rest of us, regardless of whether we buy the advertised product or not. We are all involuntary stakeholders in commercial broadcasting, to a much greater extent than the $2-worth you mention for public broadcasting.

Therefore, we subsidize commercial broadcasters to a hefty degree. (And it's not much of a digression to point out that these same broadcasters make a mint out the political commercials that so inflate the cost of the democratic process - not to mention perverting it, especially since the Citizens United decision). If public broadcasters are subject to criticism from their tax-paying partners the way you say, shouldn't commercial broadcasters all the more subject to criticism? Yet they act as if they own the airwaves.

And by the way, you write as if people have the choice of not supporting an advertiser by not buying the product. That's only true for identifiable consumer products. You would have a hard time, for example, not supporting a particular bank or insurance company. You could be doing any business with any number of customers of such an institution and have no way of being any the wiser - and therefore you would be supporting it unwillingly as an indirect customer. The same would go for all kinds of other institutions. So don't go singling out the measly tax you pay for public broadcasting for special criticism; the truth is that it's the most transparent contribution you can make, other than your direct contribution to a station.
 
TheBigA said:
Going back to the founding of public broadcasting, the original goal was to eliminate those kinds of financial motivations from programmers. To keep WNED from becoming another Citadel.

Another thread soiled by the mention of *******. Point well made, nonetheless.
 
listener-in said:
Either unwittingly or perhaps on purpose, you entirely miss the Bob's point. It matters not that advertising is a legitimate cost of doing business; it remains a fact that, as a tax-deductible expense, it is being subsidized by the rest of us...Therefore, we subsidize commercial broadcasters to a hefty degree...

...And by the way, you write as if people have the choice of not supporting an advertiser by not buying the product. That's only true for identifiable consumer products. You would have a hard time, for example, not supporting a particular bank or insurance company...

First, it's not unwitting. I reject Bob's premise, and yours, on its face. A tax deduction offered indiscriminately to every US citizen and business is not a public subsidy to one of those businesses, any more than I'm subsidizing you because you get a personal exemption on your federal taxes. Donald Trump is subsidizing you, too, by that argument.

How dollars are spent by a business two or three steps down the chain is an argument to nowhere. They say every piece of printed currency in circulation for a year or more is tainted with drug residue. So...I should boycott you, because someday the money I pay you will reach a drug dealer?

I will give you this...broadcast companies are subsidized in another, much larger way. They're given the use of the public's limited over-the-air bandwidth, and no longer required to pay license fees or held to any reasonable standard of serving the public interest. Unless someone with political capital files a complaint, broadcasters are given pretty much carte blanche. Meanwhile, the FCC auctions off other RF spectrum to mobile phone/data companies for billions.

As for political ad rates and resultant windfalls, candidates for federal offices pay less than prevailing short-term ad rates on broadcast radio and TV as a matter of law. The extent to which they use the medium reflects just how good that deal is. The discussion of why anyone would pay 50 or 100 times the salary of a political office to obtain it is a chat for another day (and another board).
 
P_W: I think you actually helped make my point that the flow of money that keeps commercial broadcasters in business is much more opaque than it is for their public counterparts.

We agree about the free use of public airwaves. Both private and public broadcasters benefit from it, but that’s where the similarity ends. “Free” opens the door to much more revenue for a 50kW commercial broadcaster than it does for a small competitor, than it does to a non-commercial station. Clearly that particular subsidy benefits the big operators most (so what else is new?).

As far as political ad rates are concerned, I believe that the law that favors political candidates themselves has nothing to say about what stations may charge other supporting or opposing groups, which have gained enormous leverage since the Citizens United ruling. Stations stand to benefit from an increase in the sheer number of political ads, and if the pressure of such ads on available airtime becomes too great, there is nothing to stop the stations upping their rates to whatever the market will bear.
 
Paul_Warren said:
I will give you this...broadcast companies are subsidized in another, much larger way. They're given the use of the public's limited over-the-air bandwidth, and no longer required to pay license fees or held to any reasonable standard of serving the public interest. Unless someone with political capital files a complaint, broadcasters are given pretty much carte blanche. Meanwhile, the FCC auctions off other RF spectrum to mobile phone/data companies for billions.

Well said.
 
Actually, there is a yearly 'regulatory fee' of several thousand dollars per station, depending on market size. Admittedly not a big deal for large groups, but a noticeable chunk of change for small stations.
 
Lee Rust said:
Actually, there is a yearly 'regulatory fee' of several thousand dollars per station, depending on market size...

Lee, thanks for that clarification. I've been out of the business a few years, didn't know it was back. It's still a token compared to what mobile providers have paid at auction.

Listener, I'm not concerned with the opacity of the sources of revenue for commercial broadcasters, beyond being really annoyed with the incomeathome.com spots on talk shows (which is a disguised lead-generation scheme for Herbalife multi-level marketing recruiters) and political action committees (with intentionally deceptive names).

I also wonder if public broadcasting would have the same sound and feel, and continue to make current fans happy, if the stations had the kinds of revenue streams commercial stations do...

Would you still sit your kids down in front of Big Bird if he became Fat Cat?
 
"Would you still sit your kids down in front of Big Bird if he became Fat Cat?"

If some special interests get their way, he'll soon be Dead Duck. :(
 
Bob1370 said:
"Would you still sit your kids down in front of Big Bird if he became Fat Cat?"
If some special interests get their way, he'll soon be Dead Duck. :(
"Brought to you by a grant from KFC."
 
Cuomo isn't going far enough on this one, funding for so-called Public Broadcasting should be totally eliminated as congressional Republicans are proposing. CPB/NPR , PBS whatever you want to call it has become a bloated bureaucracy. Pubcasters may broadcast to the public, but they don't serve the public. Pubcasting caters to a niche audience, and that's OK, just stop the influx of tax dollars. Those who enjoy NPR need to pony up a bit more and make it totally self-sufficient. And I'm ready for the flames, LOL.
 
W2JUV_AL said:
Cuomo isn't going far enough on this one, funding for so-called Public Broadcasting should be totally eliminated as congressional Republicans are proposing. CPB/NPR , PBS whatever you want to call it has become a bloated bureaucracy. Pubcasters may broadcast to the public, but they don't serve the public. Pubcasting caters to a niche audience, and that's OK, just stop the influx of tax dollars. Those who enjoy NPR need to pony up a bit more and make it totally self-sufficient. And I'm ready for the flames, LOL.

No flames here; Welcome to the cause. Of course you know that both of us will now be nailed to the cross (verbally of course) for daring to suggest the end of government funding for CPB.

CPB supporters are already rallying support on Facebook to stop any congressional cuts.

With our government trillions of dollars in debt, cuts have to be made somewhere. I wonder if the same people opposed to cutting government funding for CPB would rather see more cuts to education or assistance for our veterans?

We need to educate our children and help our elderly citizens. We need to take care of our wounded veterans. We don't need Big Bird!
 
The Voice of Reason said:
I wonder if the same people opposed to cutting government funding for CPB would rather see more cuts to education or assistance for our veterans?


No. No one in public broadcasting is saying to cut money for education or veterans. So don't make stuff up.

It's not a one-or-the-other thing.
 
"CPB/NPR , PBS whatever you want to call it has become a bloated bureaucracy. Pubcasters may broadcast to the public, but they don't serve the public. Pubcasting caters to a niche audience,"

170 million weekly television viewers. Cume therefore represents 56% of the US population.

An absolute majority is one hell of a big niche.

CBS would kill for as big a cume circulation.

On the radio side it's 130 million weekly cume, making NPR by far the country's biggest and most listened-to network (with the two shows, Morning Edition and All Things Considered, that regularly beat Limbaugh in weekly cume as well). Again, one hell of a big niche. You can see why Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck are trying to kill it--because they can't match its reach or listener loyalty.
 
So if PBS really has 170 million weekly viewers, and if each viewer contributed $1 a week to their local PBS station, then CPB/NPR/PBS could stopping eating at the public trough, right Bob1370?
 
W2JUV_AL said:
So if PBS really has 170 million weekly viewers, and if each viewer contributed $1 a week to their local PBS station, then CPB/NPR/PBS could stopping eating at the public trough, right Bob1370?


How do you get them to do that?

These folks feel they pay for it already.
 
"So if PBS really has 170 million weekly viewers, and if each viewer contributed $1 a week to their local PBS station, then CPB/NPR/PBS could stopping eating at the public trough, right Bob1370?"

If only it were that simple--which of course you know it isn't. The kids who are served have no spare change to offer. Their parents are often economically strapped and stressed out--they struggle to keep it all together, and even a dollar a week to their favorite radio or TV station often comes down to a dollar they don't have for their kids' lunches, and so, can't spend. Now some of the stations' viewers and listeners are quite economically comfortable and they often step up to the plate. But they're not enough. And I'm sure the folks at News Corporation, Clear Channel and other companies who so generously fund the opponents of pubcasting in Congress ($51,000 in this past election cycle to just the House author of the defunding bill) will be happy to use their leverage to get rid of their most credible competitor if they can.
 
Bob1370 said:
I'm sure the folks at News Corporation, Clear Channel and other companies who so generously fund the opponents of pubcasting in Congress ($51,000 in this past election cycle to just the House author of the defunding bill) will be happy to use their leverage to get rid of their most credible competitor if they can.

And what do you call George Soros giving public radio millions of dollars to push his leftist political agenda? You honestly don't think he (Soros') isn't going to want something in return for his "donation?"
 
The Voice of Reason said:
You honestly don't think he (Soros') isn't going to want something in return for his "donation?"

Three things:

Soros doesn't ask for anything in return.

NPR has a very clear line between funding and editorial.

But if any right-winger wants to make a similar contribution, I can give you a number to call.
 
And what do you call George Soros giving public radio millions of dollars to push his leftist political agenda? You honestly don't think he (Soros') isn't going to want something in return for his "donation?"

There's a serious flaw in your logic: if NPR actually responded to massive donations with changes in the political leanings of its programming, then you'd see hundreds of millions being donated by right-wing Republicans to "fix" its "liberal bias".
 
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