Dallas Tower Question

[Bob E. Nelson]

Of course, many remember when the 1310 site was on Flagpole Hill--when the city owned it.

That predated my arrival in Dallas but I would like to learn more. When WRR was on Flagpole Hill:

1). How mant towers did they have?
2). Were they non-DA during the day?
3). What was the signal like overall?
4). In particular, since it was still city-owned and combining of the markets had not yet occurred, how well did the old WRR cover into Tarrant County?

 

[dfaulkner]

There were two towers on Flag Pole hill. They were WRR 1310 & then early KAAM 1310.
They were 5KW day & 1KW night. I think both patterns were directional.
KAAM 1310 (now the Ticket) moved to the present tower site in the early 1980's.

 

[jd]

There were never four towers at the 570 Northlake site. It has Always been just as it is now.

Sorry about that. Apparently Scott Fybush was misinformed about the existence of another tower and my memory failed me. I think I can see what may have created some of the confusion, specifically, when they moved to North Lake wasn't 820 diplexed on 570's northernmost tower ("tower #3")?

There wasn't an issue with the Belo/Carter relationship. The new owners wanted to own their own site, and the ownership of the Northlake site was then 100% Belo.

There were all kinds of stories floating around back then about a strained relationship between the two companies, not the least of which was that WBAP resented the whole idea of paying rent to Belo. That could probably be written off as a supposed continuation of Amon Carter's legacy, in particular his disdain for "anything Dallas."

There was no tricked-up engineering on the 570 pattern or power. The coverage of the new Northlake site was identical to the Grapevine site prior to the DFW project.

I'll take your word on that, as I was simply repeating some of the things I heard a few years after the site was built.

There was a fourth tower at the Grapevine site before the move.

I definitely remember that part. In fact, the old two-lane Highway 114 ran through the array and part of the transmission line between the towers was suspended above the road.

 

[dfaulkner]

This may seem a bit off topic, but it might be helpful. There used to be a book that came out each year that listed all the radio stations in (I believe it was in the U.S. & Canada, it may have included Mexico.) I don't know if they still make them. (So much is online now.) But some old copies of it, (They had something like a call sign on the cover WRTW or something like that.) could be helpful. (The big Half Price Books on NW HWY usually has a few of them on hand.) They list: Call Sign, City of License, Wattage, Number of Towers, if
the wattage & number of towers is different at night, etc.

 

[Huff]

This may seem a bit off topic, but it might be helpful. There used to be a book that came out each year that listed all the radio stations in (I believe it was in the U.S. & Canada, it may have included Mexico.) I don't know if they still make them. (So much is online now.) But some old copies of it, (They had something like a call sign on the cover WRTW or something like that.) could be helpful. (The big Half Price Books on NW HWY usually has a few of them on hand.) They list: Call Sign, City of License, Wattage, Number of Towers, if
the wattage & number of towers is different at night, etc.

The book was the "M Street Directory", it is now published as "The Radio Book". Information on ordering it or subscribing to the online version is here: http://www.theradiobook.com/

 

[Lancer]

Was it the World Radio TV Handbook WRTH?

 

[dfaulkner]

Thanks !

 

[dfaulkner]

Lancer,

Yes. That's the one I was thinking of. Thanks !

The book that Domingo provided info on looks interesting as well.

 

[jd]

They were 5KW day & 1KW night. I think both patterns were directional.

Just a minor correction; actually WRR was 5kW full-time, directional at night. The signal was quite good over Dallas, of course, but not really remarkable in Fort Worth. In its final days on Doran Circle, however, the signal had deteriorated due to problems with the aging ground system. Copper theft reportedly was a continuing issue as well.

KAAM 1310 (now the Ticket) moved to the present tower site in the early 1980's.

That was in 1982 and around that time they had a big problem with flooding at the transmitter site. Seems like they were off the air for a really long time because of it. Does anyone else remember this?

 

[jd]

The book that Domingo provided info on looks interesting as well.

While we're on the subject here's a link that I know you'll like. It features copies of many radio publications from the past, like White's Radio Log, Vane Jones' North American Radio-TV Station Guide, Broadcasting Yearbook and more. It's maintained by fellow poster David Eduardo: www.americanradiohistory.com/

 

[dfaulkner]

The book that Domingo provided info on looks interesting as well.

While we're on the subject here's a link that I know you'll like. It features copies of many radio publications from the past, like White's Radio Log, Vane Jones' North American Radio-TV Station Guide, Broadcasting Yearbook and more. It's maintained by fellow poster David Eduardo: www.americanradiohistory.com/

jd, Thanks for correcting my info about 1310 & for this link !

 

[jd]

Does anyone know what the 4 tower AM array is/was in Sherman? It is at the intersection of Dripping Springs Road & Fannin Street - it's about a mile east of KJIM's station/towers.

That was the old KDSX 950 site for many years. (Of course, it carried the KKLF call letters before the license was surrendered in favor of the X-band 1700.) The towers are listed on the Antenna Site Registration database as "dismantled." Knowing that Google aerial shots can be way out of date, I have to ask, is there anything left at the location?

 

[dfaulkner]

Does anyone know what the 4 tower AM array is/was in Sherman? It is at the intersection of Dripping Springs Road & Fannin Street - it's about a mile east of KJIM's station/towers.

That was the old KDSX 950 site for many years. (Of course, it carried the KKLF call letters before the license was surrendered in favor of the X-band 1700.) The towers are listed on the Antenna Site Registration database as "dismantled." Knowing that Google aerial shots can be way out of date, I have to ask, is there anything left at the location?

KDSX around 1980 (I think for a good many years.) was a nice MOR type station. It's signal didn't make it into D/FW as well as KIKM.
Never knew where their transmitter site was....

 

[317C50KW]

"That was in 1982 and around that time they had a big problem with flooding at the transmitter site. Seems like they were off the air for a really long time because of it. Does anyone else remember this?"

Sure do. There were heavy rains that year (kinda like this year so far) and the tower site being in a flood plain bared the brunt of it.

What's scarier is that I remember a TV spot 1310 ran promoting the new tower site with the then General Manager proclaiming "more tower to you."

Gotta wonder what Bonneville was thinking when they programed 1310 as a personality AC/MOR back then!

 

[dfaulkner]

"That was in 1982 and around that time they had a big problem with flooding at the transmitter site. Seems like they were off the air for a really long time because of it. Does anyone else remember this?"

Sure do. There were heavy rains that year (kinda like this year so far) and the tower site being in a flood plain bared the brunt of it.

What's scarier is that I remember a TV spot 1310 ran promoting the new tower site with the then General Manager proclaiming "more tower to you."

Gotta wonder what Bonneville was thinking when they programed 1310 as a personality AC/MOR back then!

I remember that spot ! That incarnation of KAAM was an early AM Stereo as well.

 

[jd]

Gotta wonder what Bonneville was thinking when they programed 1310 as a personality AC/MOR back then!

Oh, I know what they what were thinking. I remember looking through an exhaustive research paper (or book would better describe it) which showed (at least to them) that there was a huge hole in the market for a true "MOR" station. Never mind that the format was already clinically dead, they plowed ahead and eventually it sank like a rock. They put an obscene amount of money into that venture and it failed on every level. One of the key players, incidentally, was a former GM who had held the dubious (unofficial) distinction of losing the largest amount of money in the shortest amount of time in Dallas radio history while trying to make a new format work. That format? "MOR," on a pip-squeak AM daytimer. Fortunately I was able to collect a little severance pay from them, and I never looked back.

 

[dfaulkner]

Gotta wonder what Bonneville was thinking when they programed 1310 as a personality AC/MOR back then!

Oh, I know what they what were thinking. I remember looking through an exhaustive research paper (or book would better describe it) which showed (at least to them) that there was a huge hole in the market for a true "MOR" station. Never mind that the format was already clinically dead, they plowed ahead and eventually it sank like a rock. They put an obscene amount of money into that venture and it failed on every level. One of the key players, incidentally, was a former GM who had held the dubious (unofficial) distinction of losing the largest amount of money in the shortest amount of time in Dallas radio history while trying to make a new format work. That format? "MOR," on a pip-squeak AM daytimer. Fortunately I was able to collect a little severance pay from them, and I never looked back.

I was their listener ;D & enjoyed the format. I'm sure a few others were listening, but not many....

 

[Lancer]

That was the old KDSX 950 site for many years. (Of course, it carried the KKLF call letters before the license was surrendered in favor of the X-band 1700.) The towers are listed on the Antenna Site Registration database as "dismantled." Knowing that Google aerial shots can be way out of date, I have to ask, is there anything left at the location?

Thanks JD, I haven't been by the site for a couple of years. I never was able to find any info on it so thanks for the update. There's a nice neighborhood between KJIM and that array, maybe it's going to expand. I better get some pix of it before it's gone, if it's not already.

 

[unclepudd]

Thanks for the answers....great info!! Could you pinpoint the site of KIXL's tower then? I was under the impression that it was always at the Military Pkwy site behind Hancock's. Of course, Pleasant Grove and immediately-surrounding areas were ripe with radio towers at one time (still are, to some degree.) There were towers around Scyene Rd and Masters (possibly an early KLIF tower location?) and of course, the original KSKY towers on Bruton, and the new array (Mortensen?) way out Bruton near 175. There was some recent discussion about the KIXL towers on news.jimroseremembersradio.com if you want to check that out. And yes, the old KIXL studios are still standing at last check. I have the original KIXL building sign sitting on my patio right now!

The old KIXL tower was on Parkdale about 100 yards south of Military Parkway. When the station was sold (Strauss to Crawford?) the property wasn't included in the sale so the tower was relocated to the flood plain behind the Catholic Czech Club at 4930 Military Parkway. The CE was Bob Tripp who was one of the most respected engineers in Dallas.

 

[unclepudd]

Anchor Media is who once owned the remnants of WFAA-AM/FM (by then was called KLDD-AM and KZEW-FM.) They bought the duo from Belo in 1987.

The Northlake towers (WFAA/WBAP) even after the split were 3 total. As I recall the middle tower was also 820 while all three were 570. After the split which occurred 4/30/70, the problem was isolating the signals. 820 didn't effect 570 but 570 would bleed over to 820 until it was finally fixed. Inside the Northlake building (on the right when you walked in from the back dock) was a not so small room with equipment for isolating the signals so one tower (I think the middle one) could be used for both frequencies. It was a mess but they finally worked it out. There was no friction between Belo and Carter it was just that the Belo boys had a lot of time, money and energy to try out new ideas. Carter agreed to sharing the Northlake facility as a money saver until 820 was later moved. Anyone who ever toured the old Grapevine facility would never forget it. As someone might have mentioned there were four towers at the Grapevine plant, 1=820, 3=570.

KKDA's towers are probably still in their original place from 1957 when KBCS took the air as a Grand Prairie-only station (well, they touted the "Golden Triangle" of Grand Prairie, Arlington and Irving.) Then again, I just wandered across a note on my own site that says the first towers were on Beatty Rd, south of town.

The two 730 towers for the old KPCN (later KKDA) were indeed about one half mile West of Beltline on Beatty Road. It operated with 500 watts (daytimer) with some of the radials protruding from the ground aroung both towers due to lack of maintenance.