Dave FM is Now Atlanta's Finest Rock

[atlantaboy]

Bottom line is a station can't survive with such a small 'niche' format like Dave playing artists like Phoenix, The Head And The Heart, Fitz and the Tantrums, etc.. Not in Atlanta anyway.

That's what Triple A is though - those acts you mentioned are all big on the AAA chart, so Dave isn't really doing anything unique.

I think the difference is that in markets like Chicago, San Francisco, and Seattle, the AAA station has always had ratings around a 2.0 share, whereas Dave was actually one of the most successful AAAs in the country but has just recently fallen back down to "average AAA ratings"

I had always been told that 2.0 rating for a AAA station was fine, since their average listener income is so high

 

[shadoobee]

I was going to listen to Atlanta's Finest Rock yesterday but I couldn't find my top hat and white gloves. Maybe next week.

 

[trhodes96]

[/quote]
Once I am PD, it will all change. I may even need a night time jock who used to be an on air talent at 96 Rock.
[/quote]

Nights? FU Neil! I'm a PM driver! Lol

 

[RoddyFreeman]

Bottom line is a station can't survive with such a small 'niche' format like Dave playing artists like Phoenix, The Head And The Heart, Fitz and the Tantrums, etc.. Not in Atlanta anyway.

That's what Triple A is though - those acts you mentioned are all big on the AAA chart, so Dave isn't really doing anything unique.

I think the difference is that in markets like Chicago, San Francisco, and Seattle, the AAA station has always had ratings around a 2.0 share, whereas Dave was actually one of the most successful AAAs in the country but has just recently fallen back down to "average AAA ratings"

I had always been told that 2.0 rating for a AAA station was fine, since their average listener income is so high

Have you checked KINK-FM in Portland? By the way, what you're saying is partially true.

 

[smashedcd]

Bring back Z93...

 

[wooder]

The signal is snake-bit at this point. They've changed direction and morning shows so many times listeners have long forgotten they exist. It's also interesting how they've tried 200 morning shows to execute their "music intensive" format with absolutely zero success. That's telling. Perhaps it wasn't the shows themselves that were always at fault. I tried listening to Jimmy and Yvonne as much as I could and thought their chemistry was decent and the show very listenable...when they were on. Unfortunately they didn't talk very much. The vast majority of their program (at least every time I tuned in) was very sleepy music and commercials. And now it seems CBS is gonna push it harder with Steve Craig, who's an excellent jock, but - as has been proven over and over - MUSIC DOES NOT WORK IN MORNING DRIVE.

 

[jabba17]

The signal is snake-bit at this point. They've changed direction and morning shows so many times listeners have long forgotten they exist. It's also interesting how they've tried 200 morning shows to execute their "music intensive" format with absolutely zero success. That's telling. Perhaps it wasn't the shows themselves that were always at fault. I tried listening to Jimmy and Yvonne as much as I could and thought their chemistry was decent and the show very listenable...when they were on. Unfortunately they didn't talk very much. The vast majority of their program (at least every time I tuned in) was very sleepy music and commercials. And now it seems CBS is gonna push it harder with Steve Craig, who's an excellent jock, but - as has been proven over and over - MUSIC DOES NOT WORK IN MORNING DRIVE.

How does River do in AM drive? That's what my alarm is set to, because I don't like waking up to a bunch of chatter. But then I put on TRG in the car, once I drop my daughter off (TRG=not safe for the whole family). Sometimes I listen to WNIV (seriously). Sometimes I listen to WDWD (if someone asks for it). I used to listen to Martha Zoller, but just like Boortz the amount of time she's actually on the air is miniscule, and 103.7's spot load is tremendous.

 

[atlantaboy]

Just wondering if anyone else is noticing that Atlanta's "finest rock" is the same 4 bands over and over (U2, The Police, R. E. M., and the Dave Matthews Band) - maybe people are just tired of hearing the same bands every hour

I thought it was pretty clear from the ratings that most of Dave's "lost" listeners have gone to Star 94, not to The River - instead of adding so much classic rock, I think Dave should go in the Hot AC direction

I just don't know a lot of people that listen to both Pink Floyd and Phoenix - personally, I think classic rock mixed with Alternative is a weird combination

 

[wooder]

I just don't know a lot of people that listen to both Pink Floyd and Phoenix - personally, I think classic rock mixed with Alternative is a weird combination

Agreed. Haven't a lot of stations tried these mixed formats? Don't they usually fail miserably?

 

[DToTheJ]

While we're on the subject of rock formats that "fail miserably"... This Slate piece from a former Q101/Chicago jock is a must-read. Though I wouldn't necessarily classify WZGC as "dead" but rather "undergoing several bypass surgeries."
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...nted_decline_of_fm_rock_stations_.single.html

 

[jabba17]

What I don't get is the ongoing infatuation with AAA and other "highbrow" rock formats...that is, stuff that's supposed to impress others and make you look like you have refined taste when you listen to it, as opposed to "guilty pleasures" you might actually enjoy but wouldn't admit it. Is AAA the NPR of commercial radio? Except NPR does reasonably well, like WABE.

I can see this maybe being more of a factor in a diary market, but the PPM tells all.

Does it bill well? It doesn't seem to draw well.

Re: Star 94, I am impressed by a lot of the pop music coming out today--at least the stuff that hasn't been Auto-Tuned to death. IMNSHO it's the best it's been in decades. CHR/Hot AC is going to be a slugfest.

I just don't know a lot of people that listen to both Pink Floyd and Phoenix - personally, I think classic rock mixed with Alternative is a weird combination

Agreed. Haven't a lot of stations tried these mixed formats? Don't they usually fail miserably?

Has ANYONE been successful with applying a "Jack" type format to the AOR space, combining classic rock, 80s arena rock, alt, and recent stuff? It seems like every time someone tries, a lot of someones don't like the result and the playlist gets narrowed. Even 99X did it when they summarily dumped the 80s alt (except highbrow stuff like U2 and REM) shortly after flipping from Power 99. Rock100.5 has had fits trying to figure out how much classic rock vs. 80s hair vs. 90s stuff to put on.

 

[atlantaboy]

What I don't get is the ongoing infatuation with AAA and other "highbrow" rock formats...that is, stuff that's supposed to impress others and make you look like you have refined taste when you listen to it, as opposed to "guilty pleasures" you might actually enjoy but wouldn't admit it.

You're assuming that everyone must secretly love trashy pop music, and the only reason they listen to AAA is to impress others...

Do you think there might be listeners out there that actually enjoy "music" (i. e. instruments, talent, meaningful lyrics, etc.), and not enjoy trashy synth-produced dance that is repetitive and meaningless?

 

[RoddyFreeman]

What I don't get is the ongoing infatuation with AAA and other "highbrow" rock formats...that is, stuff that's supposed to impress others and make you look like you have refined taste when you listen to it, as opposed to "guilty pleasures" you might actually enjoy but wouldn't admit it.

You're assuming that everyone must secretly love trashy pop music, and the only reason they listen to AAA is to impress others...

Do you think there might be listeners out there that actually enjoy "music" (i. e. instruments, talent, meaningful lyrics, etc.), and not enjoy trashy synth-produced dance that is repetitive and meaningless?

Plus, AAA has really high qualitative demos. That's like saying nobody likes classical music, but they just listen to impress others. You would think so, but it's not true. And in some markets, AAA bills really high. I doubt Atlanta is one of them.

 

[jabba17]

What I don't get is the ongoing infatuation with AAA and other "highbrow" rock formats...that is, stuff that's supposed to impress others and make you look like you have refined taste when you listen to it, as opposed to "guilty pleasures" you might actually enjoy but wouldn't admit it.

You're assuming that everyone must secretly love trashy pop music, and the only reason they listen to AAA is to impress others...

Do you think there might be listeners out there that actually enjoy "music" (i. e. instruments, talent, meaningful lyrics, etc.), and not enjoy trashy synth-produced dance that is repetitive and meaningless?

Sure, but I would think such a person would like a more diverse playlist with more new, up-and-coming acts instead of a heavy burn of a predictable, small playlist. Burn is burn, whether it is REM or Manfred Mann's Earth Band.

Or, to look at it another way, is such a product really deliverable in a meaningful way in today's radio environment? Perhaps such a product is too much to ask for. People say they want variety but always go to the familiar. But expectations have been set, even in the business of playing (as Becker and Fagen described it) someone else's favorites.

I guess my beef is that nobody is surprised when a classic rock station burns Stairway to Hotel Freebird, and classic rock stations don't pretend they offer something more than that, beyond standard advertising puffery. But when some AAA station burns Peter Gabriel, Talking Heads, and Sting and pretends they are being edgy and progressive and "alternative" when they're actually playing it quite safe, I guess I am disappointed and wonder what they are trying to accomplish (besides making money, natch--nothing wrong with that!). Is it the difference between dropping names of "respected" artists vs. actually carrying on an intelligent learned conversation and exploring new ideas?

Maybe what I really want (or expect) is a true alternative to "alternative". Maybe I have been spoiled by satellite and Pandora and other, better music-discovery methods.

I guess I am also skeptical of showbiz "schtick", in all its forms...especially when it gets pretentious. But if the advertisers are buying, I can't knock that.

 

[TheMusicMan]

That's one of the best posts I've read on this board in a while.

It's funny you suggest that the AAA format may have some pretentious tendencies. Yesterday I caught some of Radio Free Lunch's
Daily Cheese, and Maroon 5/Christina Aguilera's "Moves Like Jagger" was featured. As Mara gleefully sang along, I got to thinking. Dave is essentially deriding what is arguably pop culture's current "it" song as cheesy fluff. Just down the dial, Star 94, Q100 and B98.5 all have that song in power. What else do those three stations have in common? They collectively own females in Atlanta and are each cleaning Dave's clock individually.

I'm not trying to flame Dave - they've got a spot on one of my presets. In recent weeks, it seems they've moved somewhat more towards a traditional AAA sound, whereas earlier in the year there were moments where I mistook them for Star. This might be something of a step towards the musical credibility jabba17 references. But maybe the latter sound is what worked for them. As a matter of fact, I'd argue that one of Dave's downfalls in recent months has been that while Atlanta needs an adult pop/rock station, Lindy came to Star and finally decided to position it as a pure Hot AC. Since Star's music and sound is more accessible...they won that battle.

Atlanta's not a particularly musically aggressive or inventive market. On that token, going deeper and older is probably not the approach I would have taken with Dave. But I'm not their PD.

 

[trig]

Well Atlanta is a pretentious city, its all about what you drive, how much you make, and where you live and dine with that 20-40 year olds in their prime income potential years. But I don't agree that they won't listen to cutting edge music and blue humor. Many of them are used to it anyways from the college towns they went to school at, and face it we have a lot of people that have moved here. The Bible Belt mentality is as old as the Blue Laws, and needs to go away, if someone wants to make a difference here anymore.

Even the people that don't have a "edgy" side to them, want to hear about it from someone else in a morning show, or in a great new song like Porno Dancer or Crazy Bitch when it came out. It's what creates water cooler talk just like talking about a show, comedian or movie from the night before on cable.

I totally agree with Jabba17 that it's a problem that too many programmers think Atlanta is too good for much of the other good stuff played in other major markets. We are in the red with Coldplay and similar type stuff. Enough's enough already. The songs released 20-30 years ago that are now played at football games in Georgia stadiums during games like Crazy Train, Welcome to the Jungle and Shook Me All Night Long, never get radio play today here as today's new songs like them come out, because no one in this town takes the chances because Atlanta only sells White Collar Shirts at Saks. The Wal-Marts and Targets really don't exist, it's all just a mirage. We can't play any new blatant Sex Drugs and Rock and Roll (or whatever it's called today), yet they are okay 25 years later as we numbed to it, even though still imply the same Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll... Hey son, lets go get eat another hot dog after the first quarter while they play Crazy Train that is about snorting cocaine as we fill our faces food and beer... :-\

Does anyone really think people in Atlanta aren't watching the good shows on TV on after 10pm, or MTV and all the other Jersey Shore, multiple Housewives shows on cable????? There are some TV ratings for that type of content going on there, and it's on after Dr. Oz, and it's usually watched with a DVR the next day. If they watch that content, they'll listen to it as well.

 

[acheron1982]

I'm one of those who likes the more diverse side of rock. My ipod swings from The Doors to The Strokes (there is similarities their), Pink Floyd to Muse, Fleetwood Mac to Joy Formidable. I love the 90's alternative and love the 80's new wave. I love it and would only dream of a station that played "Everything Rock" from Woodstock 69 to Bonnaroo & Coachella. My taste is very unique to those that are very musically intrenched. Most people are not like this and so this sort of format would NOT work in Atlanta. I think Fram tried this in New York, right?

Atlanta is missing a true alternative station. Sure, 99x does a little alternative but they also mix it up with mainstream. I seriously think a strictly alternative/indie rock station would do pretty good in Atlanta.

Regarding Classic rock, go check out the playlist to KZ106 out of Chattanooga. They play classic rock from the hippi days all the way to the 80's and early 90's. There playlist is very large and while they play Pink Floyd and Hendrix, they dig deeper with the songs. So instead of hearing yet another brick in the wall by Pink Floyd, they may actually play Pigs or the full version of Breath off the Dark Side of the Moon.

Problem with Atlanta radio (rock) is that the rock stations are owned by corporations that seem to think only the top hits of a particular period are allowed on radio. Stairway to Heaven has been played to death but what about some of Led's deeper cuts? Uriah Heep? You never hear them on classic rock radio. How about Head East? Jethro Tull? Hey, AC/DC is mainstream but some of their songs never get any airplay and they were hits.

 

[acheron1982]

Trig- It's not just the bible belt.... NYC has nothing cutting edge anymore when it comes to rock anyway. KROCK which was the alternative rock station in NYC is not a HD radio online.

 

[agentUrge]

Maybe what I really want (or expect) is a true alternative to "alternative". Maybe I have been spoiled by satellite and Pandora and other, better music-discovery methods.

It seems pretty clear that many listeners of terrestrial radio have the same idea. I would venture to guess that younger listeners are going this route rather than FM but I'm curious to know if there are numbers that prove it. Younger listeners aren't getting exposure to new music like I did when I was their age. There are now more avenues to get new music, whereas my options back then were MTV (they covered all of the popular music genres at the time) or the local FM radio, provided it catered to my choice (and unfortunately for me, I've lived in three major cities that never really ventured far from the classic rock-esque format...so MTV it was.

 

[jabba17]

Maybe what I really want (or expect) is a true alternative to "alternative". Maybe I have been spoiled by satellite and Pandora and other, better music-discovery methods.

It seems pretty clear that many listeners of terrestrial radio have the same idea. I would venture to guess that younger listeners are going this route rather than FM but I'm curious to know if there are numbers that prove it. Younger listeners aren't getting exposure to new music like I did when I was their age. There are now more avenues to get new music, whereas my options back then were MTV (they covered all of the popular music genres at the time) or the local FM radio, provided it catered to my choice (and unfortunately for me, I've lived in three major cities that never really ventured far from the classic rock-esque format...so MTV it was.

Back in the day (early 80s) in ATL you had 2 choices for alternative rock--MTV and Album 88 (or the VMC if you know what that was!). And it was new stuff, stuff you weren't familiar with (Album 88 had a bad habit of dropping songs just as they got popular). 96 Rock dabbled in it for not quite a year until they went off chasing the baby boomers by "cooling it with the 'heavy metal'" and giving the boomers "Pure Rock & Roll", and went overboard on classic rock.

Album 88 is still around, but MTV doesn't live up to its first initial anymore. But now we have all kinds of Internet options.