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Radioresearcher said:
"Mainstream Top 40"? Oh, is there any other kind? I'm not ambivalent to PPM, but there are other ways to achieve "mass appeal" without watering down a format to the extent that it can't be branded anymore. As to my unanswered question directly addressed by your key female demo comment, why *not* add Bieber and One Direction to 103.9? I wasn't being facetious: They're "hits," they appeal to female listeners, and therefore fit your criteria for a business to succeeed. Of course, I'm sure it's entirely possible for 103.9 to still be profitable after all their fails this year - possible, but not likely.
Maybe he couldn't find some flunkie with a UV sterilizer to clean off his mic every morning...or, he ran out of propane for his BBQ?
indieradioguy said:
Well, there's a way NOT to be profitable - do Alternative. Hard to make money on tattoo parlors, bars, and strip joints. That's the problem - the type of buyer who buys the format is not desireable. The ones that bill big are X96 and KROQ - but have larger than life morning shows. I think advertisers are wrong about the format, but sellers have been unable to convince them the Alternative listener is extremely educated and has a good income despite what qualitative says.
Radioresearcher said:
Alternative demos patronize nudie bars? Really? Hmm...so, you're saying the same guys (I thought you said it skewed female) who might be hip to Fiona Apple and Liz Phair would be dropping tips on a lap dance? Who knew? ;D
This has been my biggest complaint against valley radio...How is having a 17th or 18th CHR format from stations who are already well established supposed to be profitable????!!!!?????.....It may make more since to be an alternative niche based on the fact that the ratings of the niche will probably be better than the #17 CHR POP FORMAT KMVA, KMXP, KZZP, KZON,,<ETC ETC ETC..............may the church say AMEN!! ;D ??? : :-X :'(
??? : :-X :'(XMportable said:This has been my biggest complaint against valley radio...How is having a 17th or 18th CHR format from stations who are already well established supposed to be profitable????!!!!?????.....It may make more since to be an alternative niche based on the fact that the ratings of the niche will probably be better than the #17 CHR POP FORMAT KMVA, KMXP, KZZP, KZON,,<ETC ETC ETC..............may the church say AMEN!! ;D
It's amazing how times have changed. On two occassions in the 90's (Fall '93 to Fall '96, and June '98 to Feb '99), the only station in the market that passed for CHR was KKFR, and in the latter years, they were Where Hip-Hop Lived.
justthenumbers said:XMportable said:This has been my biggest complaint against valley radio...How is having a 17th or 18th CHR format from stations who are already well established supposed to be profitable????!!!!?????.....It may make more since to be an alternative niche based on the fact that the ratings of the niche will probably be better than the #17 CHR POP FORMAT KMVA, KMXP, KZZP, KZON,,<ETC ETC ETC..............may the church say AMEN!! ;D
It's amazing how times have changed. On two occassions in the 90's (Fall '93 to Fall '96, and June '98 to Feb '99), the only station in the market that passed for CHR was KKFR, and in the latter years, they were Where Hip-Hop Lived.
Times have changed and so have the market demographics. If you want it like that, see if you can buy a time machine.
Radioresearcher said:
I wasn't trying to suggest that there should be one CHR again. I was just pointing out how different things were before. In 1998, no one wanted to step up to plate to do something resembling Mainstream CHR and now we can't get enough.Times are different now and I realize that.
Times have changed and so have the market demographics. If you want it like that, see if you can buy a time machine.
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I just think it is rEEdeeecuuuulus(Like DQ) to have 10 stations playing the same music. They all can't win, and the newer ones have LESS chance of winning being KZZP #2 or KMVA #3. It's just my opinion. I usulally listen to radio in other markets on my Iphone. : :
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I just think it is rEEdeeecuuuulus(Like DQ) to have 10 stations playing the same music. They all can't win, and the newer ones have LESS chance of winning being KZZP #2 or KMVA #3. It's just my opinion. I usulally listen to radio in other markets on my Iphone. :
:Radioresearcher said:
"Radio" (specifically, an ad buy) is a product, like a car or a home or a loaf of broad at the supermarket. As with any product, you need supply and demand and the standard rules of economics still apply, whether it's 1964 or 1979 or 2012. Snarky comments like "times have changed" can't erase the fact that if you base your business decisions solely on a POS red herring like "changing demographics," you won't make a profit. Whatever year it is. High school bake sales make more profit than most of the stations in this market.
indieradioguy said:
I don't think "times have changed" is a snarky comment at all. Perhaps a bit too concise, but it is true. Times HAVE changed.
I remember being at a radio conference back in the mid 90's where some guy was talking about how internet radio was going to change everything, and terrestrial radio would be competing with internet stations. It didn't exactly happen that way. When satellite radio debuted, a lot of people were like "well that's the nail in the coffin for terrestrial radio!" But it didn't exactly happen that way.
In fact technology is moving so fast even the people forecasting certain technologies as the death of radio can't keep up! Radio itself is trying to keep up, with increased web presence and even the ongoing failure that is HD radio, but the truth is that nobody has any idea what the landscape will look like 10 or maybe even 5 years from now.
As for "changing demographics," it isn't so much that the demographics are changing, but that how certain elements of the demographics get their music and entertainment is changing. 18 to 34? How many 18 year old people call a radio station and request a song nowadays?
Perhaps this is off Topic, but Times in Radio have seriously changed. KZZP had a 12 share back in the 80s. This does not happen anymore. Now obviously ways of measurement were probably not the best back then, but people were passionate about what they heard. The Music, the DJs, the parodies, the real Live shows with real local personalities, the entertainment. Its all gone now. Its canned, pre packaged, pre determined. Its been researched and researched which only means stations are just copying other playlists because a song works in another market. PDs programmed with their gut back then. Now they are robots. They change their mind every 6 months. Blah.
For most of us radio is an entertainment medium. If it does not do that it gets turned off and we go to other forms of entertainment. It is really that simple.
Radio used to entertain. Now it also irritates. People do not like to be irritated. If the suits can't see that they might as well be selling brushes door to door.
Can radio recapture its former glory? Perhaps not, but it can be viable, not just profitable. But not the way it is going in a lot of the big markets. I no longer listen to any OTA stations in my market. I do listen to some over the Internet. They remain popular in their respective markets because they know how to entertain and they know their audience. Cookie cutters they ain't. And neither am I.
Radio used to entertain. Now it also irritates. People do not like to be irritated. If the suits can't see that they might as well be selling brushes door to door.
Can radio recapture its former glory? Perhaps not, but it can be viable, not just profitable. But not the way it is going in a lot of the big markets. I no longer listen to any OTA stations in my market. I do listen to some over the Internet. They remain popular in their respective markets because they know how to entertain and they know their audience. Cookie cutters they ain't. And neither am I.
KZZP would probably have a 14 share today if it didn't have 38 CHR competitors on terrestrial FM.
Saladressing said:
The suits decided PPM negates basic economics about supply and demand: 38 CHR's all playing the same songs, no demand for it (hence, people fleeing to their iPods and Pandora to meet their "demands"), and people wonder where those 14 shares disappeared to. The question nobody's asking in a market owned by KOOL is: Why don't more stations flip to "oldies"? They're untouchable like KNIX supposedly was in the pre-PPM era? It doesn't take a crystal ball to see more stations emulate 95.5 in the next few years - so much so I would bet money that "oldies" will be the next place Pratt shows up.
indieradioguy said:
The reality is KZZP has two competitors in KZON and KMVA. There are three top 40's chasing a lot more shares (and revenue) than the two Country stations plus whatever KSWG gets in the Northwest.
KKFR is a hip-hop station who shares only a handful of titles with KZZP. Anyone who thinks KKFR is anything like KZZP or even KZON now is completely ignorant.
Why would anyone chase KOOL? They are a 45+ station with a format aging out of the 25-54 cell and they are a decent but not big 25-54 performer by any stretch. Eva and Mega are in a similar format and the market won't support two.
It's funny. There are three Regional Mexican stations but no one ever brings that up or the fact we have two Spanish Adult hits stations. Isn't that the same thing you are criticizing here?
Saladressing said:
as Kiss FM? Not a chance...I don't care if they had Zero competition. I'm talking the Real KZZP
And I really don't think there are 38 CHRs....like Mr. Research said, there are only 3 or 4 (Power is not a full Hip Hop station BTW)... just like it was in the 80s (KZZP, Y95, and KKFR)
I agree DJ Perry, KKFR plays plenty Dance and Pop artist on their station. Unlike HipHop stations on the East Coast. There are plenty enough top 40's that sound the same. Also, I did mention months ago about their being too many spanish stations that are not needed. Got few responses.
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