DAVE's Music Evolving

[RoddyFreeman]

Has anyone else noticed that DAVE-FM is starting to sound like a real AAA station musically? Under Michelle Engel, the station played enough AAA to report to R&R's AAA section. But DAVE sounded far from other AAA stations I've heard.

 

[Insideradio]

If you go to yes.com and type in wzgc you can see what they've played. They even have the top 100 songs being played on Dave, and I'm sorry, it's bad. I don't care if it's AAA or not, this format stinks. It really only appeals to music snobs and most of them already have those songs on their Ipods. I love Margot and think she's does a great job with that music but I honestly don't see the appeal.

We'll see if they can stick it out untill the PPM's get here - I doubt it.

 

[SalesWeasel]

If you go to yes.com and type in wzgc you can see what they've played. They even have the top 100 songs being played on Dave, and I'm sorry, it's bad. I don't care if it's AAA or not, this format stinks. It really only appeals to music snobs and most of them already have those songs on their Ipods. I love Margot and think she's does a great job with that music but I honestly don't see the appeal.

We'll see if they can stick it out untill the PPM's get here - I doubt it.

I love this ^^ kind of thinking. It's no wonder people with money and taste have left radio for satellite and ipods in droves. Painting people who enjoy new and eclectic music as "snobs" is not forward thinking. Dave has always had the potential to appeal to those of us who lack interest in hearing the same six classic rock staples, god-awful Project music and in-your-face imaging.

 

[lilburncommunityradio]

It's like a friend said to me months ago, Ipods, and Sat Radio are now what people want. Broadcast on the air radio is gone. Although I feel that radio will continue to live on, It will mainly be those who want these (Strange Radio Formats) Like Dave, Project,and others that will keep it goin. It's sad to say that Radio has seen it's heyday, but like all things that are great, they all must end.

 

[FloydB]

It's like a friend said to me months ago, Ipods, and Sat Radio are now what people want. Broadcast on the air radio is gone. Although I feel that radio will continue to live on, It will mainly be those who want these (Strange Radio Formats) Like Dave, Project,and others that will keep it goin. It's sad to say that Radio has seen it's heyday, but like all things that are great, they all must end.

I disagree. Ownership needs to stop using that excuse and fess up to the fact that their on air product is just bad. It has been stripped-down and consultant-choked to death. If stations gave the listeners a product that was appealing, then the listeners will return.

It's like when a retailer revamps and renovates an old store. Before the customer service was bad, and the store just looked like crap. Now, you have a nice, shiny new store and employees that sincerely care for the customer's well being, or at least can act like they care. All of a sudden, this store goes from being a cash-bleeder to a cash-cow.

Terrestrial radio, right now, is not serving the needs of their customers. The owners have turned radio into a computer that plays the music and voice-tracks, so why should the listener tune into someone else's programmed .mp3 player when they can program their own?

 

[monkeymanmoi]

It really only appeals to music snobs and most of them already have those songs on their Ipods.

Good thing there were a lot of FM music snobs in the early 70's or you wouldn't have your 300 song The River to listen to all day. Silly comment.

 

[Insideradio]

It really only appeals to music snobs and most of them already have those songs on their Ipods.

Good thing there were a lot of FM music snobs in the early 70's or you wouldn't have your 300 song The River to listen to all day. Silly comment.

You are mistaken... those songs were hits! They had mainstream appeal. They were BETTER songs than what Dave is playing. Do you honestly think these songs (played in the last 2 days) will be there in 30 years? Stupid comment!

Del Amitri
Ryan Adams
Paolo Nutini
Roxy Music
Travis
Josh Kelly
Feist
Robbie Roberston
Five For Fighting


Ask your average 18-49 year old if they know these songs? Exactly... they don't...
that's why Dave will NEVER get ratings.

 

[BuckNaked]

Speaking as a non-radio industry person - a listener only - why are radio stations pumping the "more music" idea when I can get "more music" on my iPod? I listen to radio for 1) the music, 1a) the personality. I like radio that is interesting. The more that radio pushes "more music, less personality" on me, the more I'll simply choose the music I want from my iPod. I prefer to listen to something that will be fresh and capture my interest. That is the primary reason I started listening to more talk radio over the years. Whether the ideas being exchanged are good or bad, at least they're fresh and entertaining (for the most part.)

When I listen to radio, I want to hear a good tune, have a good laugh, and occasionally go "Hmmm...." If I want to listen to some tired playlist over and over, I'll listen to my iPod (or the River...)

 

[SalesWeasel]

Speaking as a non-radio industry person - a listener only - why are radio stations pumping the "more music" idea when I can get "more music" on my iPod? I listen to radio for 1) the music, 1a) the personality. I like radio that is interesting. The more that radio pushes "more music, less personality" on me, the more I'll simply choose the music I want from my iPod. I prefer to listen to something that will be fresh and capture my interest. That is the primary reason I started listening to more talk radio over the years. Whether the ideas being exchanged are good or bad, at least they're fresh and entertaining (for the most part.)

When I listen to radio, I want to hear a good tune, have a good laugh, and occasionally go "Hmmm...." If I want to listen to some tired playlist over and over, I'll listen to my iPod (or the River...)

Aren't you kind of saying you want to hear your ipod music on the radio? You say you don't listen for the music but your #1 reason for listening is "music." -- I'm not bagging on you, just curious.

Radio's business model is going through a slow transformation. The companies that can't or won't change are toast in the long run.

 

[RoddyFreeman]

And why hasn't Mr. Millman weighed in on this yet?

 

[bclark71.]

What 97.1/The River plays is an admittedly very shallow sampling of some of the biggest hits of the rock era. Yes, they were played on the “progressive” (oooh) FM band but the songs The River plays were also played on the AM hits stations. Everything The River plays was, in fact, a hit. And when I’m scanning around the dial I either want to a) hear some song that I actually recognize, or 2) hear someone that is saying something I find to be interesting.

“Radio Snobs” are people who play Ryan Adams, Paolo Nutini and Feist and then act all snotty when people ask who the hell they are and/or when people turn their dials away from stuff they don’t recognize or isn’t radio-friendly. Those acts aren’t sellable on a mass-appeal radio station that exists for the sole purpose of making money. And college kids that work at WRAS or WREK and then try and head over to Project, Kicks or Q are in for a rude awakening when they have to play by the rules and work within a constricted format where someone else calls the shots. They may as well have been on the lacrosse team as on WRAS. Other than learning the equipment, college radio is absolutely irrelevant as a training ground for new radio talent. It can be said that if a station claims to be “alternative,” that means “this station does the alternative of playing recognizable music and making money.” I’m glad people like the Flaming Lips. They seem like nice fellas. But they’re not mass-appeal and they do not belong on a commercial stick.

That said, I agree that consultants have ground the life out of radio. There used to be local flavor even in the most mass-appeal formats. For example, in the early 1980s, Z93 sounded different than Z100 or KIIS, just because they were in different parts of the country. The same could be said for country and urban stations. Now with the same consultants working most of the same stations and having regional program managers within each ownership group, everything sounds the same. Add the “more music, less talk” philosophy and you tell me how stations stand any chance of sounding different from each other. It’s downright sad. And you’re right, I can get my 847 favorite songs from my mp3 player. So why should I turn on the radio? Just to hear ads? Traffic? And don’t get me started on voice-tracking or the “same six fatbodies” rule.

So if you like “new and eclectic music,” knock yourself out on Dave FM and 99X while they’re still with us. But ultimately, because “new and eclectic” music without mass appeal isn’t sellable, it will be relegated back to the far-left side of the dial where it belongs once CBS and Cumulus decide what’s next.

 

[RoddyFreeman]

Brian, if you're saying the artists on DAVE are not recognizable, I have to disagree. The great majority of the music is pop-oriented by well-known artists.

As far as true AAA, it's certainly been successful, especially with 25-54, in a number of markets, such as Portland and Austin. For whatever reason, it seems to be successful in markets that lean liberal politically. Atlanta is said to be a liberal market, but that's primarily because of its large African-American population.

 

[Windreader]

So if you like “new and eclectic music,” knock yourself out on Dave FM and 99X while they’re still with us. But ultimately, because “new and eclectic” music without mass appeal isn’t sellable, it will be relegated back to the far-left side of the dial where it belongs once CBS and Cumulus decide what’s next.

What a fat load of fertilizer. I remember when REM was new and eclectic. Not everybody wants to hear the same 50 songs over and over ad nauseum. I'm not a fan of Leslie Feist, and I could do without Amy Whinehouse, but somewhere on the dial there has to be room for something new... an artist or a song that hasn't been pre-packaged and overresearched and served up piping lukewarm on a sesame seed bun by the recording companies. I have noticed that Dave has been slowly expanding the play list; and probably the reason Millman hasn't checked in is that he's pretty much proven conclusively that he doesn't have a clue what to put on Dave or any other station.

 

[bclark71.]

Again, if it’s worth a damn, it will find its way into the mainstream, ala The Fray, Coldplay and Amy Winehouse. But let’s not pretend that “alternative” is anything these days but an empty term for a format that died 5 or 6 years ago.

Roddy, I should clarify because you’re absolutely right, Dave is much more mainstream than my post alluded to, and much more mainstream than it once was. Plain White Ts, Bruce Springsteen, the Cars, none of these are fringe acts. If they’d cut the Finger Eleven, Guster and other such unknowns that can’t muster a mainstream hit then they might be on to something.

 

[Windreader]

And how does an artist hope to have a "mainstream" hit without getting caught up in the daily gristmill of pop radio? The internet has broadened a lot of horizons, and I'm glad there are stations like Dave that are willing to stick their necks out occasionally for Robert Randolph, Citizen Cope, even Feist as much as her amateurish performances make me wince. There are different levels of success these days. I've been a fan of Guster for years. KT Tunstall was new and eclectic a year and a half ago before Kat McPhee almost singlehandedly pulled her career out of oblivion. Point made about "alternative." It was never more than a marketing slogan, but there is music outside the Beyonce, Rihanna, Clarkson, Avril, name your boy band of the week regimen heard coast to coast every five minutes. Given my druthers, I'd never want to hear the same song on Dave more than once a week. That (and Mara) keep it fresh and interesting.

 

[SalesWeasel]

What 97.1/The River plays is an admittedly very shallow sampling of some of the biggest hits of the rock era. Yes, they were played on the “progressive” (oooh) FM band but the songs The River plays were also played on the AM hits stations. Everything The River plays was, in fact, a hit. And when I’m scanning around the dial I either want to a) hear some song that I actually recognize, or 2) hear someone that is saying something I find to be interesting.

So if you like “new and eclectic music,” knock yourself out on Dave FM and 99X while they’re still with us. But ultimately, because “new and eclectic” music without mass appeal isn’t sellable, it will be relegated back to the far-left side of the dial where it belongs once CBS and Cumulus decide what’s next.

It's this reason that iPods and Satellite radio will continue to erode radio until there's nothing left but CHR and Spanish. Kids and immigrants...there's your business model. Knock yourselves out.

Also - buyers love Dave's format so ratings or no ratings, they're still making money. Same with 99X.

 

[BuckNaked]

Speaking as a non-radio industry person - a listener only - why are radio stations pumping the "more music" idea when I can get "more music" on my iPod? I listen to radio for 1) the music, 1a) the personality. I like radio that is interesting. The more that radio pushes "more music, less personality" on me, the more I'll simply choose the music I want from my iPod. I prefer to listen to something that will be fresh and capture my interest. That is the primary reason I started listening to more talk radio over the years. Whether the ideas being exchanged are good or bad, at least they're fresh and entertaining (for the most part.)

When I listen to radio, I want to hear a good tune, have a good laugh, and occasionally go "Hmmm...." If I want to listen to some tired playlist over and over, I'll listen to my iPod (or the River...)

Aren't you kind of saying you want to hear your ipod music on the radio? You say you don't listen for the music but your #1 reason for listening is "music." -- I'm not bagging on you, just curious.

Radio's business model is going through a slow transformation. The companies that can't or won't change are toast in the long run.

What I was trying to say, if not very clearly, was that if I'm just listening for music, I'll simply download what I want, and stick to the iPod. But I really do prefer to mix it up with some interesting banter and info. Yes, I did say that music is #1, with personality being #1a. But let's face it, great music on a station with boring on air talent is like fresh roast beef on moldy bread. Yeah, you still got good meat, but who wants it? And if you can't have good bread, why have bread at all? Just eat the meat. I think this illustrates my point entirely. It takes all of the elements together to make it work. And for me, a good sammich beats a plain plate of meat any day! I like alot of the music on Dave, probably more than the others, but it bores me after a short while. I like the music on several stations, but they lack personality. So if their gonna stick me with nothing but music to listen for, I'll choose my own and create my own playlists.

 

[rm]

Ryan Adams is playing at The Fox next month. He's not as obscure as you make him out to be.

Even WMLB plays him

 

[Windreader]

Yeah, everyone's obscure until they have a second hit. Once upon a time in 1963, the Beatles were "some band from England"...but they'll never be as big as Elvis or the Beach Boys.

 

[FCR]

Terrestrial radio as a whole is at an interesting point in time right now because of so much going on. Within its own medium, HD radio is growing, and the largest market (and its embedded friends) are on the verge of PPM currency.

It won't be long now until we know if there will be one or two satellite radio offerings.

Additionally, companies are starting to take their radio division private, and we don't know what will come of that. Just last week, Leslie Moonves admitted that CBS might be "trimming a few stations." Congress is slowly investigating how to handle ownership.

Record labels are scrambling to find ways to make money, yet as we saw most recently with Kanye's and 50 Cent's newest albums, record sales can be impressive. iPods continue to reign king among mp3 players, and starting next week, people in New York will be able to get a cup of coffee and download a tune at the same time.

Meanwhile, radio insiders, employees, fans, and those with nothing else to do all weigh in on their opinion of what they think radio should be on boards like these. (I'm not knocking our club, just pointing out that everyone has an idea.)

My point is that radio is at a pivot point to see what the outcome of everything mentioned above will be. Buy or sell? Music or talk? Rock or AAA? New, old, or underground? Flip or wait? Whatever happens, I believe radio will still have its place in our lives.

Thank you.

:: Steps down from NAB Radio Show podium ::