Daytime Radio Stations

[SirRoxalot]

I guess I don't see where that's an exception. WCCO is indeed a Class A station - WEEU must protect WCCO's skywave coverage out to some distance. (I want to say 750 miles)

One of the earlier posts states:

WEEU puts out 20kw days, 6kw nights; the nighttime signal protects WCCO and sharply nulls to the NW.

The directional pattern does protect WCCO and its skywave for most of the country between Minneapolis and Eastern Pennsylvania.

It seems to me that clear channel stations are a thing of the past. The coming AM IBOC broadcasts will wipe out long distance listening on AM anyway. When it comes to servicing local communities, what's more valuable - a local signal, or information and entertainment from hundreds of miles away? The listeners who will suffer are the ones who live in rural areas that are not served by local signals.

 

[chartguy]

The rules were at one time a lot tighter - I still remember a time when WOAI was the ONLY station allowed to operate on 1200 at night, and it's my understanding that in earlier years many other channels were literally clear - with only ONE station operating at night.

As I remember, there were others like that as well, even in my lifetime. BOLD I believe were truly clear channels, without even any daytimers or anything else, other than the big 1-A station. There are some major surprises near the bottom of the list.

640--nothing in the US allowed to operate at night, later than Los Angeles sunset. I remember that Akron, Ames, and Norman OK ALL had
"Specified Hours" licenses (or was one of them daytime only?). Akron would sign off at KFI's sunset, I forget about the others.
Generally, CMQ La Habana (site nee' Santa Clara) owned the frequency nights in Michigan. By the way, how did WNAD Norman
manage to change to WWLS, another "W" call in *Oklahoma*, in the 70s?
650--In the continental US, there were only WSM, and 250-watt-daytimer KIKK (nee' KRCT) in Texas.
660--In the continental US, bgesides WNBC/WRCA/WEAF (depends on when), there were three daytimers east of the Rockies, and
nothing at all in the West. Oops...don't forget Fairbanks...
670--I think that WMAQ (now WSCR) was alone, until KBOI moved there in the late 60s.
700--Definitely had only WLW, though Anchorage eventually moved to 700 around 1970 or so.
720--WGN (and, later, Hawaii and Alaska) were alone. Perhaps Las Vegas came on before one or both of those "late states,"
because KDWN came along quite early in the scheme of clear-channel breakdowns.
760--I remember only WCPS Tarboro NC competing with WJR's continental U.S. signal in the 60s. Of course Honolulu was there as well.
820--I don't remember anything besides the WBAP/WFAA share-time arrangement (later becoming all WBAP). I don't think 820
was "duplicated" until the 70s (Burien WA may have been first?). Despite the fact that *TWO* stations in a fairly major metro
were using the frequency in the early 60s, it went vacant EVERY night, leaving only an exotic inland Colombian (HJED Cali).
770--I'm pretty sure I remember there being nothing besides KOB (fulltime duplicated-clear "oldie") and WEW-MO daytimer, against WABC.
780--Before Reno moved here in the 60s, it was ONLY WBBM, and four daytimers (NE, OK...and *TWO* in NC).
830--Besides KIKI in Hawaii (which was a mere 250 watts in the early Sixties), and a daytimer in Kennett MO, it was all WCCO.
840--Except for a couple of oddball eastern daytimers (PA and CT), wHAS had it all to themselves.
870--There was Honolulu, and daytimers in CA and MI, and a Limited/Specified Hours in Ithaca NY. WWL was the sole nighttime in the 48.
880--before KRVN moved here (were they, or Guymon 1210, or Reno 780, the first clear-channel breakdown in the "Baby Boomer era"?),
WCBS had to compete only with daytimers in OH and NC. There's that pesky NC again, that state had a knack of getting stations
onto "odd" frequencies in the early days.
890--Before KDXU moved off'a 1450, it was just WLS, and a daytimer in...uh, WHAT state was that again? Okay, look at 880...
1020--Probably the strangest of all the clears, as I remember it. Roswell wasn't there yet in the early and mid-60s. Los Angeles had the
bizarre situation of going off at their sunset, but being allowed to sign on 9PM SUNDAY NIGHTS to stay on only until KDKA signed
back on from their weekly silent period. Making it stranger, there were two daytimers in Illinois(!)...and nothing in NC.
1030--It used to be only WBZ, and Corpus Christi as a daytimer. Casper WY moved there as one of the early clear duplications.
1040--WHO used to compete only with a 1000-watt daytimer in Dallas, and there was a Hawaiian there.
1060--There was some stuff here in the early 60s, but I think KPAY Chico was the only fulltimer to compete with Philadelphia.
1090--I think that Baltimore and Little Rock, along with Seattle, used to be the only continental U.S. stations. However, Canada and
Mexico border stations got into the mix as well.
1100--As I remember, the only fulltimers were KFAX (which puts "nothing" east, but blasts the entire West Coast from Cabo San Lucas to
Anchorage), and of course Cleveland. Three daytimers in the Eastern Time zone as well (NY, PA, GA) at the time.
1120--Until Eugene OR moved there, I don't think KMOX competed with anybody. When did Limon CO come on - the 70s?
1160--KSL didn't really compete with anybody, other than quasi-daytimer WJJD. Same type of arrangement as used for KFI on 640.
1180--I remember in the 60s, before Kalispell moved, it was ONLY daytimer Jacksonville IL competing with WHAM.
1200--"Move along, guys, nothing more to see say here."
1210--Before Guymon moved here (early), the early 60s had only Honolulu, and daytimers in OH, NC (imagine that) and IL, to compete with.
1520--Outside of some West Coast stuff, I'm pretty sure I remember ONLY KOMA and WKBW being here in 1960-61. (Ypsilanti MI which is
now on 990, and Bryan OH, came on in 1962.) Were the Californians, or Oregon, on in 1960?
1530--In the early sixties, it was ONLY Cincinnati, Harlingen (then a VERY small town!!!) and Sacramento, and no daytimers at all.
1540--In the earliest 60s, I think that ONLY Los Angeles, Fort Worth (50-KW daytimer), Waterloo, Albany, and 250--watt Galveston were
on here.
1550--It seems like the White's Radio Log in 1960 didn't list much more than Shreveport, St. Joseph MO, maybe one of the Indianas, and
Bennettsville? Of course CBE Windsor was there. I think I remember a huge flurry of new stations in the 1962-3 era though.

Corrections are welcomed of course! But it was fun reflecting on the dial as I remember it. It's amazing to consider how "under-used" some of these frequencies were, even as late as 1961. A sampling of FM, below, is even more amazing:

89.1, 89.9 - I think that, in 1965, there was **NOTHING** on these frequencies.
89.5 - I remember KMFA Austin, in the mid-60s, being the only thing on the frequency within range of Michigan. I'm not even sure if KPBS
San Diego was even on (or perhaps already on, but not on 89.5) at that time?
99.7 - Even in the mid 70s, there were no more than 10 or so stations operating here. In fact, even as recently as 10 or 12 years ago,
this frequency was a DX'ers paradise in the Northeastern USA, there being NOTHING northeast of Pittsburgh, Kannapolis NC and
Norfolk VA. (I think overall, 100.5 and 105.3 had a bit fewer nationwide than 99.7)
100.5 - I remember there being only several stations here, too. Maybe six stations in the late 60s.
100.9 - In the mid 60s, this frequency was not used in the United States AT ALL (unless it had translators). CHEC Lethbridge used to
be the only thing listed in White's Radio Log.
105.3 - Another frequency that had only a few stations on it for the longest time.
106.7 - This position was rather under-utilized as well. Des Plaines (Chicago) was a Johnny-Come-Lately coming on in the early 80s or
late 70s. From here in western Illinois, even in the early 90s, there was usually NOTHING on the frequency besides 200-mile-distant
Des Plaines. When a 3000-watter in Cave City KY, 350 miles from here, came on in the early 90s, they were easy and common here
because nothing else got in the way. There were many stations using 106.7 at 500 miles away and farther, though, and I racked
up about 14,000 "tropo miles" on 106.7 before IL, IN, IA, WI stations started coming on rather late in the scheme of things.

TV: Even as recently as 1990, ANY signal on Channel 58 was *VERY* serious DX from Macomb IL. No full-service station closer
than New Jersey existed, nor were there any translators closer than Georgetown, Ohio (400 miles). Talk about under-utilized!

 

[w9wi]

As I remember, there were others like that as well, even in my lifetime. BOLD I believe were truly clear channels, without even any daytimers or anything else, other than the big 1-A station. There are some major surprises near the bottom of the list.

Regulation 73.22 provided for Class II-A stations on clear channels. The regulation specified eleven frequencies on which one II-A station would be permitted in a specific state or states:

670 - Idaho (now occupied by KBOI, Boise)
720 - Nevada or Idaho (KDWN, Las Vegas)
780 - Nevada (KKOH, Reno)
880 - North or South Dakota or Nebraska (KRVN Lexington, Nebr.)
890 - Utah (KDXU St. George)
1020 - New Mexico (KCKN, Roswell)
1030 - Wyoming (KTWO, Casper)
1100 - Colorado (KNZZ, Grand Junction)
1120 - California or Oregon (KPNW, Eugene, Ore.)
1180 - Montana (KOFI Kalispell, Mont.)
1210 - Kansas, Nebraska, or Oklahoma (KGYN, Guymon, Okla.)

As of 1966:

670 - KBOI had a permit to move from 950. At the time their authorized night power on 670 was 25kw.
720 - no application filed yet.
780 - no application filed yet. (there was a KOH on 630 but I don't think this is the same station as today's KKOH)
880 - KRVN was a 25kw directional daytimer on 1010.
890 - as mentioned, KDXU was a graveyarder on 1450.
1020 - The station, then KSWS, had been on the air for about a year with 50,000/10,000 DA-2. KSWS-TV, ironically, predated the radio station by 13 years.
1030 - KTWO was on 1470.
1100 - not yet applied for. I think KREX (920) eventually got the channel.
1120 - not yet applied for. There were daytimers on 1500 and 1540 in Eugene (neither frequency is used there today), might one of these been the predecessor to KPNW?
1180 - KOFI was a 5kw daytimer on 930.
1210 - KGYN was a 1kw daytimer on 1220.

640-- WOI & WNAD were daytimers, WHLO limited time
660-- Omaha, Greenville SC, Dallas
720-- in 1966 KUAI Hawaii was on but no application had been filed for Vegas yet.
760-- Don't forget KFMB. (San Diego, kicked off 540 when it was made a Mexican clear) They even had night power.
770-- Limited time KXA Seattle, two sharing daytimers in Minneapolis & Northfield MN
780-- Before Reno moved here in the 60s, it was ONLY WBBM, and four daytimers (NE, OK...and *TWO* in NC).
and WAVA Arlington VA
820-- LImited-time stations in Chicago and Columbus OH and a daytimer in Evansville, Ind.
830-- KIKI was still 250w in 1966. WNYC was still on 830 at the time, a limited-time operation.
840-- Except for a couple of oddball eastern daytimers (PA and CT), wHAS had it all to themselves.
also WTUF Mobile AL.
870--There was Honolulu, and daytimers in CA and MI, and a Limited/Specified Hours in Ithaca NY. WWL was the sole nighttime in the 48.
WGTL Kannapolis NC (there's NC again!), Fort Worth TX, Farmville VA.
890-- Before KDXU moved off'a 1450, it was just WLS, and a daytimer in...uh, WHAT state was that again? Okay, look at 880...
(yeah, must have been some powerful Senator in the Tar Heel State! (I seem to remember something about a Senator Helms?)
There was also a 1kw daytimer in Oklahoma City.
1020--Probably the strangest of all the clears, as I remember it. Roswell wasn't there yet in the early and mid-60s. Los Angeles had the
bizarre situation of going off at their sunset, but being allowed to sign on 9PM SUNDAY NIGHTS to stay on only until KDKA signed
back on from their weekly silent period. Making it stranger, there were two daytimers in Illinois(!)...and nothing in NC.
KGBS Los Angeles was a limited time station. Looks like they were taking advantage of that clause in the limited time rule that allowed them to use any night hours not
used by the dominant station.
1060-- WNOE New Orleans was on at night (same facilities as today). There were daytimers in AZ, CO, MI, NE, NC, OH, and a permit for one near here (middle Tennessee)
to move from 1540. All the daytimers are still on 1060 but the one in AZ is now fulltime.
1090-- Yep, there were nine daytimers but nothing besides Baltimore, L.R., and Seattle at night. There were Canadians in Lethbridge, Alta. and St.-Jean, Que., and the
Wolfman's station in Baja was on this frequency.
1100--As I remember, the only fulltimers were KFAX (which puts "nothing" east, but blasts the entire West Coast from Cabo San Lucas to
KFAX was a limited-time station.
1120-- there were daytimers in Maryland, New York, and Texas.
1210--Before Guymon moved here (early), the early 60s had only Honolulu, and daytimers in OH, NC (imagine that) and IL, to compete with.
Also Saginaw, Mich.
1520--Outside of some West Coast stuff, I'm pretty sure I remember ONLY KOMA and WKBW being here in 1960-61. (Ypsilanti MI which is
now on 990, and Bryan OH, came on in 1962.) Were the Californians, or Oregon, on in 1960?
Port Hueneme signed on in 1958. The Oregon station signed on in 1947. (but I'm not sure either one started on 1520)
1530-- There are 21 daytimers listed in 1966 (and a permit for #22), plus WCKY and KGBT.
1540-- 29 daytimers listed in 1966 plus permits for two more, but one existing 1540 station had a permit to move to 1060. Fort Worth had 1kw DA at night by now.
1550-- I count **53** daytimers in the 1966 book. And permits for two more. Eight stations had night facilities. (Bennettsville, Huntsville, SF, two of the four Indiana stations,
Shreveport, Jackson, and St. Joseph) (and of course, CBE) 1550 was a Mexican clear; a 5kw station in Nuevo Laredo was the biggest south-of-the-border station on
1550.

 

[w9wi]

Corrections are welcomed of course! But it was fun reflecting on the dial as I remember it. It's amazing to consider how "under-used" some of these frequencies were, even as late as 1961. A sampling of FM, below, is even more amazing:

Shoot. That last one got posted prematurely...

89.1, 89.9 - I think that, in 1965, there was **NOTHING** on these frequencies.

In 1966 there were ten stations listed on 89.1 and eight on 89.9. There were only five on 89.5 - and KMFA didn't exist yet. (KPBS did, though it was KEBS at the time) 89.5 was the lonliest channel on the FM dial at that time.

99.7 - Even in the mid 70s, there were no more than 10 or so stations operating here. In fact, even as recently as 10 or 12 years ago,
this frequency was a DX'ers paradise in the Northeastern USA, there being NOTHING northeast of Pittsburgh, Kannapolis NC and
Norfolk VA. (I think overall, 100.5 and 105.3 had a bit fewer nationwide than 99.7)
100.5 - I remember there being only several stations here, too. Maybe six stations in the late 60s.

It looks to me like 100.5 was the lonliest of the commercial channels with only eleven stations. 99.7 had 14 and 105.3 13 - several other frequencies would have been in the running.

100.9 - In the mid 60s, this frequency was not used in the United States AT ALL (unless it had translators). CHEC Lethbridge used to
be the only thing listed in White's Radio Log.

There are 12 stations listed in 1966.

94.9 is the "openest" channel here. I listened for a half-hour this morning and heard 350-mile Halleujah FM from Little Rock several times. I've heard 500-mile DX from Wisconsin on this frequency without anything else beyond 200 miles coming in.

 

[chartguy]

Thanks for the corrections Doug...how could I possibly have forgotten stuff like WNOE, and some of those 820's? I even have ancient Survey charts from some of the stuff I forgot, such as 840 Mobile. (Chicago 820 has ALWAYS been a daytime regular wherever I've lived.) Yikes...that's what happens when I do stuff "on the fly" with too many aging brain cells, I guess.

Looks like I undercounted a tad on the FM frequencies, though it's also possible I'm thinking of a log/directory from 1962 or 1963 or something, and I may be attributing conditions from the beginning of my FM DX'ing (1965) to something I (surprisingly) observed a little earlier. I had White's Radio Log as early as 1960, but I think I noticed those FM anomalies somewhat later.

My observation of CHEC being the ONLY station on 100.9, probably IS more like 1962 or 3, because I think it was 1964 when I abandoned White's Radio Log in favor of the far superior Vane Jones Radio-TV Station Guide. I do absolutely remember seeing this, though, and I do remember seeing nothing listed on 89.1 and 89.9 and wondering why those frequencies weren't used. I also remember seeing, I think in 1962, that WJDX-102.9 was the only FM station in Mississippi.

If anything, one would logically expect that 88.1 would have been very sparse due to its closeness to Channel 6, but au contraire I think it was about the "busiest" noncommercial spot in those days. Ralph Strobel in Indiana has DX'ed something like 75 or 80 stations on 88.1 which is probably the all-time record for anybody on a single frequency.

Yes, by the MID-sixties, those frequencies in the 1500's had "bulked up" well with stations (especially 1550), and I think I forgot to mention 1500 as being another sparsely-populated frequency when the Sixties began. It would be interesting to see a 1960 or 1961 Log to see how many stations were indeed on these frequencies. And, yes, Eugene KPIR-1500 is what ended up on 1120, and KREX is what ended up on 1100 (initially using those calls on the new freq. as well). KFAX 1100 was Limited Time? I remember hearing KFAX in Michigan on Monday mornings, maybe they did the same thing as 1020 L.A.? I don't seem to remember ever hearing them strong nor very often, which implies they had their directional, extremely-unfavorable-toward-Michigan pattern, but if they were "limited" hours because of Cleveland, why would they have been directional at all? For that matter, KGBS seemed directional and never very strong, as well.

Wes Boyd from Hubbard-Youngstown has some sort of reference book from 1942 or 1943 (or maybe it was even 1939 or 1940), a hardcover radio station directory, and when looking through it I was utterly FLOORED to see a listing for a 2,500-watt daytimer on 1520 in Hammond, Indiana. I actually do think 1943 is the correct year.

Correct...KKOH 780 has nothing to do, facility-wise, with the old potassium hydroxide, er, KOH on 630. They were first KCRL, while KOH was doing their thing on 630.

 

[chartguy]

If one were to go back a little bit farther, perhaps to 1957 or 1958, what would 1570 and 1580 look like? I don't think a lot of stuff on those frequencies is terribly old, either, though I know that Santa Monica was there already. (Old telephone joke: PHONE CUSTOMER: "Operator, I'd like to call Santa Monica." OPERATOR: "Go ahead, but I don't think he's gonna like it.")

I'm also not sure exactly when 900, 990, 1010, 1050, etc., started becoming populated either. My guess is that new CP's descended on these "new" frequencies like sharks, raising total stations from 2 or 3 to dozens within 3 years or so.

 

[w9wi]

Thanks for the corrections Doug...how could I possibly have forgotten stuff like WNOE, and some of those 820's? I even have ancient Survey charts from some of the stuff I forgot, such as 840 Mobile. (Chicago 820 has ALWAYS been a daytime regular wherever I've lived.) Yikes...that's what happens when I do stuff "on the fly" with too many aging brain cells, I guess.

I certainly have the same problem! In this case I had the advantage of hard copy(grin) in the form of a 1966 Broadcasting Yearbook... (of course, it wasn't yet "Broadcasting and Cable"(grin)!)

Looks like I undercounted a tad on the FM frequencies, though it's also possible I'm thinking of a log/directory from 1962 or 1963 or something, and I may be attributing
conditions from the beginning of my FM DX'ing (1965) to something I (surprisingly) observed a little earlier. I had White's Radio Log as early as 1960, but I think I noticed those FM anomalies somewhat later.
...
I also remember seeing, I think in 1962, that WJDX-102.9 was the only FM station in Mississippi.

I'm somewhat leery of White's and, though to a lesser degree, Vane Jones. It's been a few years since I've seen either but I remember a number of obvious errors. I wouldn't rule out the possibility they simply managed to lose all the 89.1/89.9/100.9 stations. I suppose another possibility is that they were only listing stations that were on the air - that most of the FMs listed in the 1966 YB were inactive permits - but that would have been a change in policy as I clearly remember plenty of CPs in the Vane Jones.

Further checking in the 1966 YB shows two stations on 100.9 that predated the 1960s: WKLF-FM (Clanton, Ala.) listed as signing on in 1953, six years after their AM; and WIFM-FM Elkin, N.C. which signed on in 1949, the same year as their AM. KTIM-FM San Rafael, Cal. is listed as signing on in 1961. (14 years after the AM) Still, that leaves only *three* stations in the U.S. on 100.9 in 1960!

The 1966 YB says WNSL-FM in Laurel signed on in 1959 - but it would have been the only other FM station in Mississippi in 1962. It lists seven additional FMs that signed on in 1964 or 1965, and seven construction permits.

If anything, one would logically expect that 88.1 would have been very sparse due to its closeness to Channel 6, but au contraire I think it was about the "busiest" noncommercial spot in those days.

I suppose if you're looking for a frequency to build a new NCE-FM station, you start at the bottom of the band and work up until you find something that works. Today, you'll probably get to 108.7(grin) before you find something. Back then, with the 88-92 band so sparsely populated, I'd imagine many potential applicants never had to look any higher than 88.1.

It would be interesting to see a 1960 or 1961 Log to see how many stations were indeed on these frequencies. And, yes, Eugene KPIR-1500 is what ended up on 1120, and KREX is what ended up on 1100 (initially using those calls on the new freq. as well). KFAX 1100 was Limited Time? I remember hearing KFAX in Michigan on Monday mornings, maybe they did the same thing as 1020 L.A.? I don't seem to remember ever hearing them strong nor very often, which implies they had their directional, extremely-unfavorable-toward-Michigan pattern, but if they were "limited" hours because of Cleveland, why would they have been directional at all? For that matter, KGBS seemed directional and never very strong, as well.

Yes, it would be interesting to see a 1960/1961 list. (and thanks for the info on KPIR/KPNW)

KFAX is a strange one. To quote the listing directly:
LS-50,000
DA-D-N-L-1,000
which I read as meaning 50,000 watts non-directional daytime, limited time, and directional with 1,000 watts day and night. Doesn't really make much sense. I'm guessing they were required to reduce power and go DA at the beginning of critical hours (2hr. before sunset) and then go off the air completely at sunset. And then allowed to sign back on when KYW (then, of course, on 1100 in Cleveland) went off for the night.

KGBS is listed as "DA-N-L-50,000" which I read to mean they were required to go directional when operating at night.

Wes Boyd from Hubbard-Youngstown has some sort of reference book from 1942 or 1943 (or maybe it was even 1939 or 1940), a hardcover radio station directory, and when looking through it I was utterly FLOORED to see a listing for a 2,500-watt daytimer on 1520 in Hammond, Indiana. I actually do think 1943 is the correct year.

WHIP. I swear I saw a listing somewhere that had it at 5kw. It's not in the 1951 White's.

The frequencies you cite in the other post (900,990,1010,1050,1570,1580) are either Canadian or Mexican clears. There was at one time something called a "Canadian restricted" power - it far predates me but I'm guessing a treaty was negotiated to allow U.S. operation on Canadian clear channels. I might guess this and a similar treaty with Mexico opened the floodgates for new daytimers on these frequencies.

I've long been amused by the number of daytimers authorized in the 1940s and 1950s. Before format radio and the widespread deployment of TV, (and car radios) wasn't most radio listening in evening "prime time"? It'd seem to me VERY economically unwise to launch a radio station that was prohibited from operating during the hours when most people listened! Yet browsing the 1951 White's, most of these daytimers survived. I guess it just shows just how much profit there was in radio...

 

[chartguy]

Very interesting, as usual...thanks Doug. Now, am I going to see you at a convention again someday? Will there even be a TV-FM convention this year? Maybe not.

Yep White's was very prone to mistakes - I remember seeing them list something ON BOTH 1090 AND AN ADJACENT (either 1080 or 1100), and it was a biggie like WBAL or KYW or something. I also remember seeing Vane Jones list WIRE-FM 107.9 (IT, AND HE, were both in Indianapolis, so he blew it!). They were never WIRE, though I think they were WIFE-FM originally (or maybe even WISH?). By the way, how did Indianapolis end up with both WIRE and WIFE? And how did Toledo OH end up with both WTOD and WTOL to the early Sixties? I thought that similar call letters in the same market were discouraged, and I remember being told that when Ypsilanti MI 1480 was deserting WYSI, they couldn't get their first choice WSSD because WSPD complained.

And there might be something correct about White's just missing (like) 100.9 in totality except for CHEC, because San Rafael was clearly there for the duration (unless they had a hiatus of some time), as they were 100.9 in the Seventies. I can't imagine they moved OFF 100.9, and back to there again, between 1960 and the Seventies. I remember seeing WIFM listed there sometime in the late 60s as well, on what was still very much an under-utilized frequency. (I was corresponding briefly with an eastern Ohio DX'er in like 1967, after he had gotten a plethora of one-thousand-mile-plus FM TROPO to Texas, and I think that's when he told me he still had never logged anything on 100.9?)

I don't remember for sure where I saw WJDX-FM being Mississi[ppi's only FM'er in 1962, but if I was instead poring through BC Yearbook or something, I could miss Laurel in the rush. That's still not much FM, though.

Those California 1020 and 1100, why on earth would they have needed to be directional if their ONLY nighttime hours were when the Great Lakes clears were off? Obviously they were, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. That also answers why I don't remember hearing much of KFAX back in the 60s, compared to KGBS. A kilowatt on the west coast, directional AWAY from me, isn't gonna be easy - for example I never managed to hear KGEM Boise on a clear frequency and I'm sure they ran more than that at night.

So in your 1951 White's, what do 900, 990, 1500, 1190, etc. look like, Doug? Was 1560 even filling up yet? (I know that WTOD was there in 1948.) Actually, what surprised me more than survival of oh-so-many daytimers (who generally had to be off in Prime Time - a lot of places didn't have Daylight Saving Time yet, back then), is how "resilient" even silent 500-watt daytimers on (say) 1590 are nowadays. I see one of those listed as silent and I think it will never come back, but USUALLY it does. I guess 200 or 300 AM's have vanished (outside of mandates like expanded-band replacements), but the pace has seemed to slow almost to zero losses now????

 

[w9wi]

Very interesting, as usual...thanks Doug. Now, am I going to see you at a convention again someday? Will there even be a TV-FM convention this year? Maybe not.

(you have me at a disadvantage, I don't recognize this screen name. Jeff, I take it?)

I think there's better than a 50/50 chance there will be a WTFDA convention this year. Whether I'll be able to attend is another question.

Yep White's was very prone to mistakes - I remember seeing them list something ON BOTH 1090 AND AN ADJACENT (either 1080 or 1100), and it was a biggie like WBAL or KYW or something. I also remember seeing Vane Jones list WIRE-FM 107.9 (IT, AND HE, were both in Indianapolis, so he blew it!). They were never WIRE, though I think they were WIFE-FM originally (or maybe even WISH?). By the way, how did Indianapolis end up with both WIRE and WIFE? And how did Toledo OH end up with both WTOD and WTOL to the early Sixties? I thought that similar call letters in the same market were discouraged, and I remember being told that when Ypsilanti MI 1480 was deserting WYSI, they couldn't get their first choice WSSD because WSPD complained.

I seem to remember similar problems in White's.

107.9 was WIFE-FM in 1966. If I recall properly, the FCC didn't prohibit similar call letters outright, but they did require you to notify the other stations in the market of your proposed new calls, to give them a chance to object. If they complained to the Commission, then the FCC would deny the call change.

Those California 1020 and 1100, why on earth would they have needed to be directional if their ONLY nighttime hours were when the Great Lakes clears were off? Obviously they were, but it doesn't make a lot of sense. That also answers why I don't remember hearing much of KFAX back in the 60s, compared to KGBS. A kilowatt on the west coast, directional AWAY from me, isn't gonna be easy - for example I never managed to hear KGEM Boise on a clear frequency and I'm sure they ran more than that at night.

I would presume to protect first-adjacents in the West - Calgary & Seattle? That's just a guess. I think there's more to the KFAX story than I've been able to find. I've read several accounts of WWII military personnel listening to KFAX on various Pacific Island outposts, indicating it was one of the strongest American signals out there.

So in your 1951 White's, what do 900, 990, 1500, 1190, etc. look like, Doug? Was 1560 even filling up yet? (I know that WTOD was there in 1948.)

White's only lists the daytime powers, so I don't know how many of these were daytimers.

900: 20 stations.
990: 19 stations.
1500: 5 stations. (San Jose, Adrian MI (now on 1490), Sherman TX, and of course WTOP & KSTP)
1190: 8 stations. (there would be only one more in 1966)
1560: 9 stations, counting one Puerto Rican.

(my apologies to the Buffalo/Rochester folks for this rather nationwide history lesson in your forum(grin)! )

 

[rdcuffpa1]

(my apologies to the Buffalo/Rochester folks for this rather nationwide history lesson in your forum(grin)! )

Sort of bringing it back on topic and local -- talking about similar call signs -- I always thought it interesting that WSAY (Rochester) was on 1370 and WSAI (Cincinnati) was on 1360. On my old kitchen radio I had to listen closely at night to figure out which I was listening to in East Aurora.

It would seem that adjacent-channel call letter similarity would be something the FCC might have wanted to dissuade...

Richard in Allentown, PA

 

[Philip_Airtime]

I'm just amazed at the huge response to this technical, and rather dry, topic. This thread has generated more response than anything else in recent memory. In any event, this discussion had me recalling my first job, which was at a day-timer. It was so disheartening in December to sign off at 4:45. I remember watching the traffic as it passed by the station, knowing that some of those people were our listeners who were going someplace else for their music, weather and news. One Saturday afternoon stands out in particular. Our station ran Penn State football. The game ran long and we had to follow that with the local high school athletic director's weekly sports interview show. It was 4:30, and I had a half-hours worth of commercials left on the log. The boss called and helped me prioritize. But for 15 minutes, all I played were commercials -- including the same spot at various times during the "stop set." Why anyone listening would have stayed with that is beyond me. It definitely wasn't my finest broadcast moment. But it does bring a smile thinking about it so many years later.

 

[anoldguy]

It was 4:30, and I had a half-hours worth of commercials left on the log.

The same thing happened to me at a daytimer I was working at many years ago. December with all the Christmas spots and snowmobile races. From 4:15 -4:30 straight spots then sign off. I felt sorry for anyone stuck in an iron lung that was listening. Every year the owner would go nuts about all the revenue he was losing signing off at 4:30. He would swear every year he was going to get an FM or put up more towers for a night signal. Then summer would come and we wouldn't have any spots after 6:00 and he'd be fretting over paying someone on the air to 8:45.
And how the morning drive not signing on with full power til 7:30 and some stations not even having pre sunset?

 

[chartguy]

(you have me at a disadvantage, I don't recognize this screen name. Jeff, I take it?)

Oh, sorry...didn't identify myself. You're close...it's Frank Merrill. You were only two miles off, heh.

More of a reply to come in a while, or over the weekend...

 

[chartguy]

Sort of bringing it back on topic and local -- talking about similar call signs -- I always thought it interesting that WSAY (Rochester) was on 1370 and WSAI (Cincinnati) was on 1360.

As a kid, when CKEY Toronto was on 580, I always used to be confused between CKEY Toronto/CKY Winnipeg.

Let me see...what else can I think of, along those lines?

I remember being in Fargo on a June 1983 trip, when a massive FM skip opening hit. About two hours apart I logged WACT and KACT on 105.5.

I'm sure others will come to mind, but not now, and they're probably not worth quoting anyway...

I always thought it was humorous, back in the 1980's when CKHJ Fredericton was on 93.1, they had bought (and were using) one of the old "93-KHJ" jingle packages.