Breaking it down...
RockTheGlobe said:
Tony, I well understand your position, since I am a P1 Alternative listener and have not only suffered the loss of the #1-rated radio market (again), but also several other heritage stations and markets over the past couple of years, including a great station that I used to work for and thought would never flip. That said, there is a distinct difference between cautious optimism at getting another outlet and the attitude I read here in April of how EDM was so popular and how come higher-ups in radio companies were idiots for not recognizing that. The "just you wait until Hot 107.1 gets astonishing shares and sparks a new nationwide format!" feeling was a little pervasive from the pro-Dancers, including you, who lectured me earlier in this thread. It almost seemed like an attitude of "all right, the Cleveland Browns have won their first game, so look out, Tom Brady, we're keeping you from going to the Superbowl this year!" (And yes, I know the Browns have not actually won a game so far this season as of this post, I was using them for artistic license so you get where I'm coming from.) That got my hackles up, which is why I originally took on the topic.
And likewise, I got my "hackles" up since there are few stations that cover the dance/EDM format. So when a station like this in or near a major market such as Denver arrived, we were very excited about it. No different than, as you a P1 listener, was probably excited when WEMP dumped their news format here and WRXP returned, according to many folks, sounding better with their alternative lean. Maybe you didn't jump through the ceiling about it but I'm sure you were very happy. And I still stand by my statement on how corporate isn't seeing things with EDM.
RockTheGlobe said:
By saying that the radio folks point out numbers and keep blinders on, you're putting on blinders on and shutting out facts yourself. Like I said, I pointed out six months ago that KDHT has a very bad signal and the station has trouble holding onto a format, but that was poo-pooed simply because pro-Dancers were excited that the format had an FM signal again somewhere. Dance formats have been tried and failed in numerous cities around the country, including New York, Los Angeles, Dallas and San Francisco, but it seems like every time a new outlet pops up, someone is there to claim that THIS one is the one that will gain traction, and when it fails, there's always a litany of excuses as to why -- the company had bad financial problems to begin with, the signal was bad, it was on a fringe signal that wasn't even receivable on some radios, other stations were stealing material from their playlists... but the fact of the matter is that if Dance were a standalone viable format that generated sustainable ad sales and ratings, it would not have failed on every other outlet where it's been launched over the past couple of decades.
I don't know how well you follow many of my posts, but I do think of myself as more open minded to other formats as you are to mine. Sorry if we shot your post down originally but we were excited and I make no apologies for that and neither will other like minded dance fans. Yet YOU have the blinders on because for the reasons WHY dance stations have failed over the past years, those "excuses" you list were true. Pulse 87 had problems BEFORE they launched dance...if ANYTHING, Pulse 87 kept Mega Media afloat for a bit until they could no longer handle things. Other signals were bad. In the case of S.F., another company bought out Energy 92.7 and flipped the format. Miami with Party 93.1? Another rock station in the market flipped format and while Party 93.1 was actually doing fine, the parent company felt that they needed to fill a void.
RockTheGlobe said:
Like I said, I well understand your position, and don't take this as a slam on Dance music or the legions of people who enjoy it, since it does seem to be doing well in other areas, like concerts and tours, which have become one of the main ways that artists make money since record sales are no longer generating the kind of profits they used to, so you should take that as a big win for your side that Dance is popular and apparently profitable in the performance space. But I agree completely with Morpheux -- at this point, you shouldn't look to terrestrial radio for validation, and maybe that's a good thing considering all the research that says radio is losing traction with listeners and especially young ones, who consume a lot of their media from the Internet and have found numerous other ways to discover music. Hell, I've been addicted to music and radio for as long as I can remember and worked in radio for over a decade, but I find now that aside from a few select terrestrial stations that I stream, I spend most of my time with online-only radio outlets like Slacker.
You may understand my position, from an alternative point of view, but don't claim it as being dance literate.
Yes, venues such as Electric Zoo, Electric Daisy Carnival, Ultra, etc have drawn huge crowds and sure, that's been a victory for me especially in New York after I was interviewed by BPM on Sirius/XM. I walked around the Electric Zoo grounds and if what I fought for all these years helped to create a vibe like that, I am very humble. But I am going to show you a post I wrote on the DANCE board. I have an online show and I have ALWAYS been about the Internet in that sense...but read on. I don't expect you to fully understand it but read....
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"Obviously we are all fascinated with radio. Most of us in here came from that era where radio was the "only game" to hear music and that if we wanted to purchase a tune, we would head out to a record store (or if we didn't want to buy it, hit that play/record button on the boombox!) Smiley But if we weren't fans of music and of radio, then we wouldn't talk about things in a forum like this. We could go to dance music/EDM oriented groups and discuss things (and I'm sure some of you do that already). But yet there is this fascination about radio somehow that grips us to a group like this.
Of course I support Internet radio. I have a show on the Internet and am all for the continued growth of that medium. Yet there is STILL something about terrestrial radio somehow whereas we all see something with potential. Yet corporate, in their own "wisdom" doesn't want to look at it. It's a "Davey vs. Goliath" battle in that sense....the fans that love the music and see something vs. corporate politics that sees numbers and money.
Radio is a business, I understand that, and they're going to go for the maximum profits. And if they are thinking that spoken word formats make the most financial and economical sense, then that's what they are going to do despite fans pleas for music. And this can go for ANY format, not just dance. We don't have a country station in New York City and fans of alternative just lost their station here.
Yes, we have this passion for dance. We live, breathe, bathe and eat this. There is still the thinking that somehow terrestrial radio DOES matter in terms of where our music stands in terms of the media and contemporary music as a whole. I just want the sound to get on FM radio somehow just because of that hope that the music can get more traction somehow as a whole in this country. I also know that if such a station ever DID happen on FM, it would be the very LAST time. By the time a format flip would take place, more people will have migrated over to the Internet along with easier accessibility to it in terms of streaming car stereos, buying streaming plans for your car, etc.
Perhaps corporate doesn't need us. Perhaps as more people latch on or stay glued to Internet offerings that are dance oriented, it would reinvent things. And with that, perhaps a new "corporate" (those that own Internet stations) can see the viability of dance/EDM in that sense and give the music more of that opportunity than terrestrial radio corporations.
Yet, there is STILL something fascinating about radio. It's just unfortunate how the industry is messing it up for all."
RockTheGlobe said:
People who want Dance music have ways of finding it. If they like the music that much, they'll seek out outlets for it, even if those outlets aren't on terrestrial radio. This isn't 1974 where if the music you like isn't on the radio, you're screwed; it's 2012, where there is so much media available, it's almost paralyzing. And in a way, even if they're not supporting it on-air, some radio companies are supporting Dance music in a way, since I'm sure that people are able to construct a Dance stream or listen to Dance music on a radio company-run portal like iHeartRadio.
Agreed there. Yet somehow, and it goes back to my quote on the last paragraph, there is STILL something to be said on terrestrial radio, even if this is the last moment where music matters.
TS
