L
lowpower
Guest
that's incorrect. they only drop the show on you if someone else in the market picks up "on air." if no one does then you can keep AT40 and the contract stands with that show.
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Did AT 40 air this weekend
- Thread starter jsu5381m
- Start date
Guys...
Lemme re-state this...
For current stations that run AT40 (top 10 and certain top 11-25 markets excluded)...Premiere is trying to have them run "On Air". If you refuse, they have been pulling the show off or will let the deal expire and offer it to another station in the market. I know first hand examples of both. A former station of mine (non-CC) has AT40, they don't want or need "On Air". Their deal expires in 90 days, it's bye bye AT40 and there's no CC in town...they're already offering both to the other major owner in town...even though their closest station is a semi Hot AC. What does Premiere do if other company doesn't want it? Come back to original affiliate? HA HA LOL!
Another PD friend of mine is a CC station...rival Top 40 has AT40 and has had it for years. Due to right of first refusal clause in AT40 deal, his rival gets 1st crack at "On Air". How does that make any sense when Premiere and CC are on same team? The rival station has the ability to hold up his CC competitor for the next 9-12 months about getting "On Air" due to remaining time on deal and how long they can stall Premiere! How does that help?
Bottom line, their plan to get "On Air" loaded with stations is wrong based on using the synergy concept of AT 40 and On Air! Why do biz in a way that will most likely hurt you in long run? To be honest...Seacrest should give up AT40...and focus on "On Air". He's too overexposed and will continue to alienate the audience going forward if this keeps up.
Lemme re-state this...
For current stations that run AT40 (top 10 and certain top 11-25 markets excluded)...Premiere is trying to have them run "On Air". If you refuse, they have been pulling the show off or will let the deal expire and offer it to another station in the market. I know first hand examples of both. A former station of mine (non-CC) has AT40, they don't want or need "On Air". Their deal expires in 90 days, it's bye bye AT40 and there's no CC in town...they're already offering both to the other major owner in town...even though their closest station is a semi Hot AC. What does Premiere do if other company doesn't want it? Come back to original affiliate? HA HA LOL!
Another PD friend of mine is a CC station...rival Top 40 has AT40 and has had it for years. Due to right of first refusal clause in AT40 deal, his rival gets 1st crack at "On Air". How does that make any sense when Premiere and CC are on same team? The rival station has the ability to hold up his CC competitor for the next 9-12 months about getting "On Air" due to remaining time on deal and how long they can stall Premiere! How does that help?
Bottom line, their plan to get "On Air" loaded with stations is wrong based on using the synergy concept of AT 40 and On Air! Why do biz in a way that will most likely hurt you in long run? To be honest...Seacrest should give up AT40...and focus on "On Air". He's too overexposed and will continue to alienate the audience going forward if this keeps up.
Thank you for clarifying your point, so the rebuttal can begin.
If an AT40 station opts out of their "first right of refusal," Premiere has the opportunity to shop the combo of the two to another station. What's so out of bounds in that scenario?
In your first example, they're going to take that 90 days to shop the combo to another station in the market. If NO one bites, yes, they'll come back to the original AT40 affiliate and try to re-up the deal on AT40 only. Even if that deal re-ups, if someone enters the market and wants On-Air, Premiere will use their included "out" in the contract to pull the show and put it on the On-Air station. IT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE. Like I said in a previous post, if a station used their 30/60/90 out in their contract to cancel a show, no one would feel sorry for Premiere or another syndicator because of the "bad business" the station is doing. STOP WITH THE DOUBLE STANDARD.
In your second example, I've seen the "first right of refusal"...it has NOTHING to do with the current AT40 contract at a station. It's specific to On-Air, and it's likely 30 days. If they don't take the show in that amount of time, Premiere can shop the show elsewhere, and if they get an On-Air bite, see scenario 1 re: AT40.
Premiere and CC are NOT on the same team. Premiere's job is to get their programming on radio stations, and make money. It's a business. Just because they're owned by the same company only means that if NO ONE is airing a particular program, the CC station is likely to get the first phone call out of courtesy. But that's about it.
If an AT40 station opts out of their "first right of refusal," Premiere has the opportunity to shop the combo of the two to another station. What's so out of bounds in that scenario?
In your first example, they're going to take that 90 days to shop the combo to another station in the market. If NO one bites, yes, they'll come back to the original AT40 affiliate and try to re-up the deal on AT40 only. Even if that deal re-ups, if someone enters the market and wants On-Air, Premiere will use their included "out" in the contract to pull the show and put it on the On-Air station. IT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE. Like I said in a previous post, if a station used their 30/60/90 out in their contract to cancel a show, no one would feel sorry for Premiere or another syndicator because of the "bad business" the station is doing. STOP WITH THE DOUBLE STANDARD.
In your second example, I've seen the "first right of refusal"...it has NOTHING to do with the current AT40 contract at a station. It's specific to On-Air, and it's likely 30 days. If they don't take the show in that amount of time, Premiere can shop the show elsewhere, and if they get an On-Air bite, see scenario 1 re: AT40.
Premiere and CC are NOT on the same team. Premiere's job is to get their programming on radio stations, and make money. It's a business. Just because they're owned by the same company only means that if NO ONE is airing a particular program, the CC station is likely to get the first phone call out of courtesy. But that's about it.
I think our signals are getting crossed...
Premiere and CC in a way are playing on the same team...I'll take the word of a CC employee about this
Premiere is telling stations that currently hold AT40...either take "On Air" or lose AT 40 now or when your deal expires. How is that fair to a station that wants the countdown but doesn't want to scarifice their local product? I agree that Premiere's job is to get business for their shows, but how does that reward previous loyality? How is that being a partner in business? If you have A and don't take B...screw you?
C'mon RT....
It also affects the now CC owned Top 40's that don't have AT40 because their competitor had the show before...they have to endure the game of being pressed to take "On Air" even though they may not want it, but then get forced to take it by upper mgmt. for the good of the "company"...yet can't have the other now or maybe later because of all the BS of dealing with a competitor who's only reason for having it is too block the CC station from having it...and then bury the show which hurts the listeners?
All I'm saying is that no matter which angle you come from...there's bad business being done that will end up hurting both shows in the long run and stations at the same time no matter who ends up with which product.
Premiere and CC in a way are playing on the same team...I'll take the word of a CC employee about this
Premiere is telling stations that currently hold AT40...either take "On Air" or lose AT 40 now or when your deal expires. How is that fair to a station that wants the countdown but doesn't want to scarifice their local product? I agree that Premiere's job is to get business for their shows, but how does that reward previous loyality? How is that being a partner in business? If you have A and don't take B...screw you?
C'mon RT....
It also affects the now CC owned Top 40's that don't have AT40 because their competitor had the show before...they have to endure the game of being pressed to take "On Air" even though they may not want it, but then get forced to take it by upper mgmt. for the good of the "company"...yet can't have the other now or maybe later because of all the BS of dealing with a competitor who's only reason for having it is too block the CC station from having it...and then bury the show which hurts the listeners?
All I'm saying is that no matter which angle you come from...there's bad business being done that will end up hurting both shows in the long run and stations at the same time no matter who ends up with which product.
I wonder if this is the end of a top 40 countdown as we know it? I mean, do kids even listen to national top 40 countdowns anymore? Personally, I liked Casey Kasem's AT 40. I actually learned something about important events or locations in America through that show (like how Cincinatti got its name).
luvcoors said:
The AT40 game has changed. It is now a part of On-Air. They are not mutually exclusive. That's why this has changed.
They didn't ask permission when they went from Casey to Ryan, and any station running the old countdown with Casey had to make the same kind of decision..."Do I want to run the new countdown with Ryan?" If the answer was yes, they had to negotiate a NEW deal, and sign a NEW contract.
Ask to see a copy of a contract. It's now ONE product. On-Air and AT40 are part of a package now. Stations running the heritage AT40 have first right of refusal (a courtesy...good business) to run the new product. With rare exception in the biggest of markets (NYC, Chicago maybe, etc), these will not be separate products.
Coors, our signals aren't crossed...I've just done research on the product in question, and don't agree with your assessment. LOL
Oh, and as a sidenote, people can cry "cram down" and "but it's not local" all they want. I DARE you to prove to us that station WXYZ is doing more compelling (or even local, for that matter) content between 10a-7p. Is it that much of a cram down if what you're doing currently sucks?
Cheers.
Personally, they should let Simon Cowell host American Top 40. Simon can count down the 40 hits, and talk about how awful all the singers are. Or if you want to save money, let Seth MacFarlane be the new host as the Manatees can produce the show for him (during the hour end non chart song extra, they can have 80s hits or Peter singing Shipoopi).
Roger That said:luvcoors said:
The AT40 game has changed. It is now a part of On-Air. They are not mutually exclusive. That's why this has changed.
They didn't ask permission when they went from Casey to Ryan, and any station running the old countdown with Casey had to make the same kind of decision..."Do I want to run the new countdown with Ryan?" If the answer was yes, they had to negotiate a NEW deal, and sign a NEW contract.
Ask to see a copy of a contract. It's now ONE product. On-Air and AT40 are part of a package now. Stations running the heritage AT40 have first right of refusal (a courtesy...good business) to run the new product. With rare exception in the biggest of markets (NYC, Chicago maybe, etc), these will not be separate products.
Coors, our signals aren't crossed...I've just done research on the product in question, and don't agree with your assessment. LOL
Oh, and as a sidenote, people can cry "cram down" and "but it's not local" all they want. I DARE you to prove to us that station WXYZ is doing more compelling (or even local, for that matter) content between 10a-7p. Is it that much of a cram down if what you're doing currently sucks?
Cheers.
First of all...I will scream BS about stations having to sign a new deal when it switched from Casey to Ryan...I know I didn't! 2nd of all, don't come here and try to give me the whole "I know more than you, I did my research bit" and then try to make yourself seem more "in the know" when from your post history you're nothing more than a self professed "radio geek". I'm actually in the business and in the format...so I speak from actual experience!
Yes...it is NOW one product going forward after the ones that currently expire for those that have AT 40 only...there lies the problem. As you dodged before, where's the loyality for running something for years and being forced to take something you don't want in order to keep the program you want? That's not good business. Unless Ryan continues to do AT40 for same length of time that Casey did (he won't)...Premiere will find another set of headaches down the road when a new host comes on and they won't want AT40 if the new host isn't good! Then someone's stuck with a bad countdown show that they have to keep until the deal expires, but if they drop AT40...then they can't keep On-Air (if they like it and it's working)?
There's a lot of stations where it makes sense to run On-Air...I can agree to that. Large, medium, and small markets...and it's not like people are lining up to jump into "On-Air". I just checked his site...35 stations...30 CHR's mostly in medium and small markets, a few large. 5 Hot AC's/AC? Those people are mainly taking it to reduce payroll and adjust other shifts so that someone people aren't doing 5 hour shows since some of those shift changes are affecting programmers. It's an OK show right now...and for those where it fits...it's cool to hear him talk with Spencer & Heidi, Will Smith, etc. because it makes their station seem a bit more Hollywood. But for those in the workplace (W 25-34) that want a LOT more music instead of a morning show in the midday...it's never gonna make sense.
I know it's all a part of the new style of CC programming. Focus more on the big stars you have..there's some morning shows that are now doing a 2 hr. "best of" in the afternoon which also does make sense for certain markets. But for those that don't wanna hear the same jock in the morning and in the afternoon, it'll make their fav. station become a tuneout! It's called overkill!
After 12 months of "On-Air" in these markets...I'm almost certain most of these stations will see flat ratings...some will see down ratings, a few will see upwards ratings. You cannot beat live and local!
Checkmate!
Bottom line...it's bad business and it screws a lot of people in the end on both sides no matter how you look at it!
luvcoors said:
Ooooh...I've obviously touched a nerve...you sure told me! LOL
Since you're so concerned with my post history, note this: The "loyalty" which you think is so lacking in this situation comes in the form of the "first right of refusal." I've stated that more than once. No dodging. If the show ceased to exist, would you cry disloyalty then? If not, just think of it like that if it makes you feel better. AT40 is going away...it's being replaced by another, similar countdown, with the same name and host.
I never said I agreed with everything Premiere has done. I just understand it. And yes, I agree that it could pose a problem if they ever changed the AT40 host.
The thing that makes me laugh the most is how badly you misinterpret the term "radio geek." At what point does that mean I'm NOT in the industry? Ha! I AM in the industry, I DO program, and at the CHR I was at when they made the Casey/Ryan switch, I DID have to sign a new contract. Speaking from EXPERIENCE. If you didn't have to, then my assumption that everyone did is false. But at least it was born in truth and experience.
This would be the one time that I would prefer to balk at the joys of the Internet shadows most of us reside in and talk about the specifics of what I've done and seen. But, like most things, even on the 'net, you can believe what you want. I'd rather remain anonymous and let you think I'm an idiot with no experience. I am flattered, though, that you wasted so much time going back through my post history so that you could properly diss me on the Internet.
I would wager that "line around the block" situation that everyone assumes is necessary for a new show is more Premiere's fault than Ryan's. They have a bad track record of "cart before the horse" shows, like Carson Daly's daily show (remember that one?), Trump, Whoopi, etc. CHR guys who once jumped at things like this are now gun shy because the execution was so poor. I'd be hesitant to suggest that it's because the show is bad.
If you've gone through my post history, you know my take on "live and local." I agree that it COULD win, but so few actually do it well (or at all), that it's hardly a concept worth hanging on to. Most assume that by simply having a jock that resides in your city, that it will beat better content. To those, I say I hope you end up being my competition! ;D When people like Randi West, Kane, and a couple others, can voice track multiple stations and be BETTER at local than any jock you could hire in-house, it is simply a testament to how sad a state everyone's "live and local" really is. (PS...for those that haven't listened to Randi or Kane, I encourage you to, on something other than their home station. It's pretty remarkable.)
Setting aside the fact that AT40 isn't worthy enough to keep this arguement going, I'd rather bow out of this conversation before it gets TIO'd. You've stated your case, as have I. I respect your opinion (I just don't agree with it), but before you make accusations, just keep in mind that not everybody on here is a wannabe, even if that's only 1% of these boards.
You didn't touch a nerve...trust me....and my bad for assuming you're not in the biz...but you do come across as having a "I know everything and you can't tell me different attitude" which is very standard on internet boards like this.
If I recall, the point of this was about AT40 and ON-Air and getting both on air and the bad biz tactics Premiere is using to get AT40 affiliates to take On-Air and the results of what happens when they don't.
I certainly wouldn't cry disloyality if they cancelled the show...it's their choice to do so. Big difference between that and forcing someone to take a product they don't want and making them lose another if they don't give in....you're still dodging this, so it's obv. you work for CC, which is fine...but it's obvious.
As I stated in my last post...I agree Ryan's show is OK and people aren't not taking it because the show is bad...it's the live/local thing and a couple of other reasons. You basically repeated my point and try to make it yours...kind of funny!
Kane, Randi, and a couple others....yes, do sound great in a small market. But they'll never make a connection in a Harrisburg, Saginaw type medium market...I'll lay money it. Medium or large market...ehhh....small market....yes.
And last...aren't we all to some extent guilty for not developing new talent and having to kill the good ones faster to make up the difference.
Personally...Kane's a killer jock, does great stuff...never a drop off...but personally, I hope he doesn't burnout. He's a great guy who I have a personal relationship with and I'd work with him in a heartbeat. I just hope he's paid well and banks the money so he cans retire early and enjoy life. The "super talent is better than Joe Average talent" argument doesn't work unless you admit upper mgmt.'s mishandling of money, etc. has lead to the purge of jobs and over-use of super talent.
I can live with having an opinion...it's OK...you do too...but you're wrong in some areas of this and the views are jaded because of who I assume you work for...and I don't think I'm wrong...fact is, I've got a short list of who I think you are...and I'm certain you're there.
If I recall, the point of this was about AT40 and ON-Air and getting both on air and the bad biz tactics Premiere is using to get AT40 affiliates to take On-Air and the results of what happens when they don't.
I certainly wouldn't cry disloyality if they cancelled the show...it's their choice to do so. Big difference between that and forcing someone to take a product they don't want and making them lose another if they don't give in....you're still dodging this, so it's obv. you work for CC, which is fine...but it's obvious.
As I stated in my last post...I agree Ryan's show is OK and people aren't not taking it because the show is bad...it's the live/local thing and a couple of other reasons. You basically repeated my point and try to make it yours...kind of funny!
Kane, Randi, and a couple others....yes, do sound great in a small market. But they'll never make a connection in a Harrisburg, Saginaw type medium market...I'll lay money it. Medium or large market...ehhh....small market....yes.
And last...aren't we all to some extent guilty for not developing new talent and having to kill the good ones faster to make up the difference.
Personally...Kane's a killer jock, does great stuff...never a drop off...but personally, I hope he doesn't burnout. He's a great guy who I have a personal relationship with and I'd work with him in a heartbeat. I just hope he's paid well and banks the money so he cans retire early and enjoy life. The "super talent is better than Joe Average talent" argument doesn't work unless you admit upper mgmt.'s mishandling of money, etc. has lead to the purge of jobs and over-use of super talent.
I can live with having an opinion...it's OK...you do too...but you're wrong in some areas of this and the views are jaded because of who I assume you work for...and I don't think I'm wrong...fact is, I've got a short list of who I think you are...and I'm certain you're there.
luvcoors said:
I guess I'm just not seeing what I'm "dodging." I assure you, I'm making no attempt to dodge the issue. I just don't agree with your assessment. Perhaps Premiere IS just a bunch of bullies about this whole thing. I just don't hear from my buddies "in the know" the same things that your buddies "in the know" are hearing.
What I'm arguing is that, on paper, the idea of marrying the two products into one, and shopping them to whatever radio station will have them is not the evil enterprise you think it is. But that's just my opinion. If Premiere is screwing it up in the execution of getting people signed up, well...THAT wouldn't surprise me or get much arguement from me. If you think that's what I'm arguing because I'm some kind of CC homer, you don't have me pegged at all!
But look...if you think I'm dodging the issue, please tell me what to address so I can clear that up. This healthy debate is good to those that may have the same questions or objections (for both sides), so it would be a shame if it ended on "you just won't answer the question," which I'm not trying to do.
Roger That said:
You hit my "dodging" point a little bit in your last response...I don't disagree with the concept of WANTING to marry the products into one. I agree with the basic branding concept behind what Premiere is trying to do in that aspect which is fine to do when shopping both products to a new market in which neither show is carried...there's still some. BUT...my major issue is that it's bad biz to hold a long-time user of AT40 hostage over keeping the show going forward by forcing them to take ON-AIR or they get neither. That's not right! They're 2 separate kinds of shows! What's next...if you wanna keep Rate The Music, then you have to pick up another syndicated Premiere show? The focus should be on just getting OA onto stations...plain and simple!
I don't think your beliefs are because you're a CC homer per se...just seems unusual for a non Premiere or CC person to vigorously defend it so much IMO. But based on a few things I've seen you write...I still think I'm reasonably on track with who you might be. Funny thing is, another idea of your true identity just popped into my head...if I'm right...you'd be very shocked to see who I am. It's very possible that we know one another...just from the conversation here and in some other threads. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....we'll see.
What you see as defending, is what I'm simply trying to point out as "not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be." But again...just my opinion. If I'm trying to vigorously emphasize a particular point, it's that.
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