J
johnnyp66
Guest
Do weekenders matter...do they really have "listeners"? RADIO IS STILL ABOUT THE LISTENERS!!!
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B
Bob_Hudson
Guest
johnnyp66 said:
Once the morning show is over at 9 or 10 AM, people tune in for the station, not the jocks (they may tune out because of jock) but radio programmers have spent so much time and effort over the years to remove all personality from non-morning show jocks, that they are not allowed (and few know how) to be much more than just announcers.
johnnyp66 said:
Some stations get some of their better ratings during weekends. That may or may not be due to the host, depending on the situation. Some formats just happen to be popular on weekends when more people are listening leisurely and not working.
I
iknowpeople
Guest
You'll never know unless the station's weekend lineup is regular (i.e. the same jock is on at X time every weekend). It depends on the station, I'd think.
I will admit though, I am more likely to tune out due to a BAD weekender, than tune in for a GOOD one. There are some weekenders who seem to talk FOREVER AND EVER...BETWEEN SONGS. Keep the music flowing...
Truly, however, I do think its a shame that there aren't more live weekenders/overnighters (not just in Boston but everywhere). Here, I think Mix is all live...BCN is mostly live...but you see stations like Kiss who are almost as bare-bones as it gets. It's a shame. There would be a line out the door for a shift there, even for minimum wage. There is no place for jocks to LEARN anymore, it seems.
I will admit though, I am more likely to tune out due to a BAD weekender, than tune in for a GOOD one. There are some weekenders who seem to talk FOREVER AND EVER...BETWEEN SONGS. Keep the music flowing...
Truly, however, I do think its a shame that there aren't more live weekenders/overnighters (not just in Boston but everywhere). Here, I think Mix is all live...BCN is mostly live...but you see stations like Kiss who are almost as bare-bones as it gets. It's a shame. There would be a line out the door for a shift there, even for minimum wage. There is no place for jocks to LEARN anymore, it seems.
S
silentsquealer
Guest
Yes weekenders and part-timers matter!
Certainly part-timers, because someone has to board-op
remotes during voice tracked shifts!
Certainly part-timers, because someone has to board-op
remotes during voice tracked shifts!
B
bjohns
Guest
Haven't quite a few talk show hosts started as part-timers, weekenders, and fill inners?
I can't believe Jim or Margery jumped right into prime time radio, for example. And Tom Finneran is still a horrible fill in host, he just happens to have a full time job to do it in.
I can't believe Jim or Margery jumped right into prime time radio, for example. And Tom Finneran is still a horrible fill in host, he just happens to have a full time job to do it in.
A
ActionJax
Guest
I would really hope we matter. Because I know I do everything I can do to do a good show, and try to get better and better every time. I think to be a good "full timer" or talk show host you have to pay your dues as one of us.
If not, we would have alot more idiots than we already do on the airwaves.
I know when I just started, I thought I could do a 4 hour talk show, or carry a full time slot myself without batting an eye. Looking back at it now, I know I would have just made an ass out of myself. If we didnt pay our dues and get our experience than I think there would be a helluva lot of cocky DJ's thinking they are the next Howard Stern falling on their faces at a rapid pace.
IMHO
If not, we would have alot more idiots than we already do on the airwaves.
I know when I just started, I thought I could do a 4 hour talk show, or carry a full time slot myself without batting an eye. Looking back at it now, I know I would have just made an ass out of myself. If we didnt pay our dues and get our experience than I think there would be a helluva lot of cocky DJ's thinking they are the next Howard Stern falling on their faces at a rapid pace.
IMHO
J
johnnyp66
Guest
Thanks for all the feedback! I am a part-timer.....and I am trying to do my best....playing good music....but I think it's more than that....I think that yes...people tune into THE STATION and not the jock....but if you make sure the music is the focus....you can still have fun and make it fun for the listeners....get them involved as much as possible!
there are good weekend hosts who, in some cases, would be better than the weekday hosts. WEEI has some good weekenders, except for the execrable Mustard and Johnson. Jordan Rich does a good job.
Bob_Hudson said:
Not necessarily. I agree that there's been an over-focus on mornings vs. rest of day. You'd think that the failure of so many stations to remain viable outside of morning drivetime when Stern walked would've rectified that attitude. But, overall, it hasn't. Mornings still seem to be an island unto themselves. However, when you see stations like WEEI having a strong midday show, and by all accounts T&R lead WBCN's fight, you see that there are circumstances where the other dayparts are equally strong. It think good personalities are found in all dayparts. In fact...it is the non-AM Drive personality's omnipresence that creates tension in a lot of places. I have seen it all over the country.
Many Morning hosts cannot deal with any talent not associated with their show getting any promotion, or "too much attention" from the station's audience. We saw a great example with Stern & O&A, O&A & Ron & Fez, Stern & DiBella...and it happens more often than not. We work in an industry full of insecure egos, and people who are compensating for their lack of attention as kids, who now feel empowered by the transmitter.
A lot of the time, it's just easier to squelch others to placate the insecure morning guy. There's so much $$$ tied up in mornings, and the headaches of dealing with the situation are minimized by the focus being placed in one area. There are stations there in Boston, where other dayparts outcume the morning show. This is unacceptable to some talent. It creates stress for a lot of people. Meanwhile, there're apparently a lot of huge "I"s in "team." Instead of relishing the fact that they're cuming well outside of mornings, stations tell their non-morning talent to "say what you need to say inside of 60 seconds." I've ever heard the legend of the "red light" on the boom in the air studio. This light is said to pop after 60 seconds and anything it took more than a minute to say, was discussed in the PD's office after your show.
But...the Stern example really showed how that mentality is so flawed. And we're going to see more of that when the PPM becomes the norm. A lot of people are going to see that mornings might not factor as much in the overall. And people might actually tune in for music, or leave the minute a jock opens their mouths.
The moral?...Make sure you're on point every break. If your content is entertaining, you'll be doing fine. No matter what daypart.
...I also might be completely flatulent. 'Tis possible.
iknowpeople said:
I'm afraid it's worse than that...
When you have major stations in top ten markets voicetracking MIDDAY DAYPARTS during WEEKDAYS (!) ... then you know that radio has seen better days.
I have never worked in radio as a full-time job. Was a communications major in college, got a gig in newspaper business and then tv news, but i always did radio part-time just to keep sharp and because it was and still is my favorite form of media. I grew up on top 40 jocks in the 70s - the guy who really got me interested is on the air here in beantown - John Lander.
I am now working part time at a station in florida. have been there for five years. I hope i matter and i approach my shifts thinking that i matter. I do just try to keep the music flowing, give out the weather, traffic reports if necessary, try to be funny when i can and hit the posts. I never go on and on about anything because the folks are tuning in for the music.
the pd probably wouldn't know me if he tripped over me and most of my dealings with management entail an email or phone call from the assistant Pd's assistant. I do a regular saturday afternoon shift, occassionally sunday and always on a holiday. I don't do it for the money or the 'glamour' i just love doing it.
Would i like to work full time in the business? sure, but i have always found jobs in TV/newspapers that pay better and i have a family to support. I would love to get a fulltime gig in radio because i feel the right situation would be a lot less stressful than my full time job, but i realize because of what radio has become, those jobs are few and far between and the guys that have those gigs are holding on tight.
there's two cents from a part time weekend guy.......
I am now working part time at a station in florida. have been there for five years. I hope i matter and i approach my shifts thinking that i matter. I do just try to keep the music flowing, give out the weather, traffic reports if necessary, try to be funny when i can and hit the posts. I never go on and on about anything because the folks are tuning in for the music.
the pd probably wouldn't know me if he tripped over me and most of my dealings with management entail an email or phone call from the assistant Pd's assistant. I do a regular saturday afternoon shift, occassionally sunday and always on a holiday. I don't do it for the money or the 'glamour' i just love doing it.
Would i like to work full time in the business? sure, but i have always found jobs in TV/newspapers that pay better and i have a family to support. I would love to get a fulltime gig in radio because i feel the right situation would be a lot less stressful than my full time job, but i realize because of what radio has become, those jobs are few and far between and the guys that have those gigs are holding on tight.
there's two cents from a part time weekend guy.......
S
silentsquealer
Guest
O.K. try this one on for size.
A night-time show
8p.m. to Midnight
Voicetracked
By A Part-timer
Number 1 in the target demo 18-34 males
Regularly
Does this not sound messed up to anyone
else except the bean-counting radio lords?
A night-time show
8p.m. to Midnight
Voicetracked
By A Part-timer
Number 1 in the target demo 18-34 males
Regularly
Does this not sound messed up to anyone
else except the bean-counting radio lords?
C
CapeRadio
Guest
At my station, for what its worth, even the weekenders have fan clubs.
Some great Boston weekenders that I can think of:
Blake hayes at Mix 985 (even tho hes not there anymore, he is very good). actually pretty much everyone at Mix 985.
Diedre Dagata. She still has her fan club.
I started as a boston weekender. Not in Boston anymore tho.
Jackson Blue was a weekender at Kiss before they hired him for nights.
Big Jim did weekends at FNX for years. he used to work at GIR for a long time until he was hired as prod dir.
Speaking of FNX weekenders, Mike Swasey won a contest at FNX, became a weekender, then moved to mornings.
You need to have good weekenders. There are exceptions to this (like kiss 108), but generally the best preforming stations are live as much as possible. Its a listener connection thing I think. People can always tell a computer.
My station now, in a top 40 market by the way, is live 24/7. We have a 7 share 12+, and I have a 25 share in my target demo. We are the only station in the market live 24/7. I dont think that is a coincidence.
Some great Boston weekenders that I can think of:
Blake hayes at Mix 985 (even tho hes not there anymore, he is very good). actually pretty much everyone at Mix 985.
Diedre Dagata. She still has her fan club.
I started as a boston weekender. Not in Boston anymore tho.
Jackson Blue was a weekender at Kiss before they hired him for nights.
Big Jim did weekends at FNX for years. he used to work at GIR for a long time until he was hired as prod dir.
Speaking of FNX weekenders, Mike Swasey won a contest at FNX, became a weekender, then moved to mornings.
You need to have good weekenders. There are exceptions to this (like kiss 108), but generally the best preforming stations are live as much as possible. Its a listener connection thing I think. People can always tell a computer.
My station now, in a top 40 market by the way, is live 24/7. We have a 7 share 12+, and I have a 25 share in my target demo. We are the only station in the market live 24/7. I dont think that is a coincidence.
Do Air Personalities Really Matter?
People who believe that listeners tune into radio "only" for the music really don't understand the medium. They have sipped the Kool-Aid served by numerous consultants and corporate programmers who consciously devalued the input of jocks over the last 20 years in order to keep programming costs down and tighten control over product.
The result is the sterile radio we have today that focuses on profit, not building an audience. We have an entire generation of "samplers" (you can't call them listeners) who tune in radio, then push the button or switch to their iPod because there's nothing to keep them listening. They hear the same 200 songs over and over and over and over, with minimal local input to add value to the music. Yes, they might hear a new song once in a while - long after it's already been "discovered" on a web stream, or passed around by one of the viral marketers.
Those radio stations who have actual personalities, who add value to the music, who entertain and inform, and build relationships with listeners, continue to thrive. In many markets, Country formats - who were the red-headed step-children at their groups - continue to do better personality radio than many of their contemporary formats.
Now, before you tell me that "research" told corporate to devalue jocks, let me tell you what MY research says. My research is THE RATING BOOK. Look at the top stations in almost every market, and you'll find that they're almost always the stations with the most live and local content, and the air personalities that best build relationships with the audience.
I believe that the collapse of stock prices, and the continued downward spiral in TSL is directly attributable to bad programming, and that broadcasters who "get it" continue to thrive by presenting compelling content. Saving $20K on a jock's salary doesn't mean anything when you're rating fall off, and your income stagnates or drops, and your company's value declines sharply.
PS - Mid-days on Saturday is the 2nd most listened-to daypart on most stations. Why would that NOT be important? Good weekenders, and good weekend programming pump up your overall numbers, and may give an audience that doesn't normally tune in to your station a chance to sample your wares. There are LOTS of great jocks out there who are no longer interested in working in radio full time for a number of reasons, but still love radio and can perform at a high level. In some cases, I've heard part-timers that outperformed some of the full-timers.
People who believe that listeners tune into radio "only" for the music really don't understand the medium. They have sipped the Kool-Aid served by numerous consultants and corporate programmers who consciously devalued the input of jocks over the last 20 years in order to keep programming costs down and tighten control over product.
The result is the sterile radio we have today that focuses on profit, not building an audience. We have an entire generation of "samplers" (you can't call them listeners) who tune in radio, then push the button or switch to their iPod because there's nothing to keep them listening. They hear the same 200 songs over and over and over and over, with minimal local input to add value to the music. Yes, they might hear a new song once in a while - long after it's already been "discovered" on a web stream, or passed around by one of the viral marketers.
Those radio stations who have actual personalities, who add value to the music, who entertain and inform, and build relationships with listeners, continue to thrive. In many markets, Country formats - who were the red-headed step-children at their groups - continue to do better personality radio than many of their contemporary formats.
Now, before you tell me that "research" told corporate to devalue jocks, let me tell you what MY research says. My research is THE RATING BOOK. Look at the top stations in almost every market, and you'll find that they're almost always the stations with the most live and local content, and the air personalities that best build relationships with the audience.
I believe that the collapse of stock prices, and the continued downward spiral in TSL is directly attributable to bad programming, and that broadcasters who "get it" continue to thrive by presenting compelling content. Saving $20K on a jock's salary doesn't mean anything when you're rating fall off, and your income stagnates or drops, and your company's value declines sharply.
PS - Mid-days on Saturday is the 2nd most listened-to daypart on most stations. Why would that NOT be important? Good weekenders, and good weekend programming pump up your overall numbers, and may give an audience that doesn't normally tune in to your station a chance to sample your wares. There are LOTS of great jocks out there who are no longer interested in working in radio full time for a number of reasons, but still love radio and can perform at a high level. In some cases, I've heard part-timers that outperformed some of the full-timers.
I think they matter
It gives PD's a farm league to pluck from to replace full time jocks because of ( fill in any one of a million reasons here), It gives them people for vacation and holiday coverage, it gives the listeners someone to read weather, traffic, sports updates, anything to seem connected to the listener.
It gives people who want to break into the biz a chance to show what they have, people who were in the biz a way to keep their foot in the door (think Kim Collins, David O'Leary, etc) and talent from smaller markets a chance to work in a bigger one, proving themselves to the PD and waiting for the top ten market spot to open up.
Personally I don't listen to any broadcast station that is jockless. Even when I am listening to my "magic radio" I listen mostly to stations that have talent chiming in every few songs.
I make it a point to listen to Travis if I am out and about in the middle of a Sunday early early morning, I have made it a point to listen to ActionJax, Yesterday I stayed glued to ZLX because Kim Collins was on in the afternoon. I listen to ChaChi on Sunday mornings when I am out, and yes I know its VT'd. I even tune in to a few minutes of Barry Scott on Sunday night.
What separates good radio from Sat or IPODs is the talent. I feel on the weekends it is important to have good talent on the air. Why spend time cultivating a good M-F lineup just to let it go to fecal matter on the weekends. Continuity is important, and last I hear books and PPM's don't take the weekend off. It all counts.
It gives PD's a farm league to pluck from to replace full time jocks because of ( fill in any one of a million reasons here), It gives them people for vacation and holiday coverage, it gives the listeners someone to read weather, traffic, sports updates, anything to seem connected to the listener.
It gives people who want to break into the biz a chance to show what they have, people who were in the biz a way to keep their foot in the door (think Kim Collins, David O'Leary, etc) and talent from smaller markets a chance to work in a bigger one, proving themselves to the PD and waiting for the top ten market spot to open up.
Personally I don't listen to any broadcast station that is jockless. Even when I am listening to my "magic radio" I listen mostly to stations that have talent chiming in every few songs.
I make it a point to listen to Travis if I am out and about in the middle of a Sunday early early morning, I have made it a point to listen to ActionJax, Yesterday I stayed glued to ZLX because Kim Collins was on in the afternoon. I listen to ChaChi on Sunday mornings when I am out, and yes I know its VT'd. I even tune in to a few minutes of Barry Scott on Sunday night.
What separates good radio from Sat or IPODs is the talent. I feel on the weekends it is important to have good talent on the air. Why spend time cultivating a good M-F lineup just to let it go to fecal matter on the weekends. Continuity is important, and last I hear books and PPM's don't take the weekend off. It all counts.
M
magpie
Guest
johnnyp66 said:
Weekenders and part-timers certainly do matter! That's where full timers get their start, and where skills are honed. I'm a weekender, and both talent and management have let me know I'm appreciated. Plus I'm in practice, for if and when that full time gig pops up....
I would say part timers do matter.
Two other jocks and I do a Saturday night metal show on a commercial FM in South Carolina. For the two shows combined, it's about seven hours of three people who enjoy what they do for those who enjoy listening.
We're servicing a niche audience who are rabid in their loyalty in a market which it is almost always ignored. A lot of the metalheads I run into have picked up either Sirius or XM, but always tune into to our shows for the local flavor of it, which I find quite humbling.
To address another point about the same 200 songs being played over and over... Testing, research, consultants... They all make me ill. Many listeners I talk to have their favorite jocks they listen for. It's even so much the music, which it partly is, but listeners are also connected to the person they've grown to know in whatever time slot they listen to.
There are formats in my market that I abhor such as Hot AC, CHR, and other pop-centered ones that I listen ONLY for the jock. They have such a high entertainment level, that I'll be listening to some blastbeat, bowel-growling metal song on my mp3 player, and switch over to that one jock's break right after whatever disposable pop song set had just played.
This one jock flows so well with a smile you can hear clear across the channel. The enthusiasm is tempered just right and just the quintessential smooth jock. After they toss it out to the next set of pop songs, I'll go back to my chuggy, bile-spewing metal that I love. And 12 minutes later, I'll tune back into that pop station jock. Just because the talent on the mic is that good. And yes, this jock is a PART TIMER.
And that's how you go around your ass to get to your elbow.
Two other jocks and I do a Saturday night metal show on a commercial FM in South Carolina. For the two shows combined, it's about seven hours of three people who enjoy what they do for those who enjoy listening.
We're servicing a niche audience who are rabid in their loyalty in a market which it is almost always ignored. A lot of the metalheads I run into have picked up either Sirius or XM, but always tune into to our shows for the local flavor of it, which I find quite humbling.
To address another point about the same 200 songs being played over and over... Testing, research, consultants... They all make me ill. Many listeners I talk to have their favorite jocks they listen for. It's even so much the music, which it partly is, but listeners are also connected to the person they've grown to know in whatever time slot they listen to.
There are formats in my market that I abhor such as Hot AC, CHR, and other pop-centered ones that I listen ONLY for the jock. They have such a high entertainment level, that I'll be listening to some blastbeat, bowel-growling metal song on my mp3 player, and switch over to that one jock's break right after whatever disposable pop song set had just played.
This one jock flows so well with a smile you can hear clear across the channel. The enthusiasm is tempered just right and just the quintessential smooth jock. After they toss it out to the next set of pop songs, I'll go back to my chuggy, bile-spewing metal that I love. And 12 minutes later, I'll tune back into that pop station jock. Just because the talent on the mic is that good. And yes, this jock is a PART TIMER.
And that's how you go around your ass to get to your elbow.
ZRXOA 5248 said:
I haven't heard Kim on ZLX (mainly because I don't listen to ZLX :
) but I'm glad she's got some airtime somewhere. She deserved better from Greater Media and that godawful Employee of the Day thing they are doing on WROR following Loren and Wally is...well...godawful.- Status