does New York have 3 dance stations?

[TonySantiago]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Here's a crazy idea, perhaps Tony Santiago should program Tony's format.

Be careful what you wish for Nick, someone MAY actually think it's a great idea! lol

 

[JustinCase]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Well I'm not my mom and I'm not old and I listen to KTU... the funny part about this is whole argument...

On a recent thread people were complaining KTU was a CHR twin, and on this thread they're being called that old, tired disco repetition station again. By definition these two points of view couldn't be farther apart. LOL either they're mirroring all the current hits or they are 40 years ago!

I know hardcore current dance fans wrote off KTU when they tweaked to survive years ago in dance's dark days, I get that, but the general American public aren't that in tune to the dance world -- most people in NY still call KTU a dance station. KTU jumps on pop rhythmic songs/artists quicker, like playing two versions of Rita Ora's Party, Madonna's lastest two singles, Chris Brown, Nicki Minaj, and Jessie J... they do play dance currents and recurrents from the likes of Avicii, Calvin Harris, Kat Deluna, Afrojack (loved Take Over Control the first go-round, love it again), Edward Maya, David Guetta, Kim Sozzi, Benny Benassi, Pitbull, and Alexandra Stan... they have dance gold from Enur, The Cataracs, Lasgo, Bob Sinclair, Cascada and others... plus the mix shows and HH's Top 30 countdown.

It's not your momma's disco KTU anymore... it's for people who came of age between 1995 and today! There is a reason its so high in the Cume and ratings and why it does well in virtually every important demo 18 and up. I am working towards my Masters in North Carolina and I intern with the athletic department, anytime I stream KTU in the facilities, I get asked without fail by students practicing or working out in the gyms or arena, "what was that station you were streaming" -- so it clicks with people.

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Well I'm not my mom and I'm not old and I listen to KTU... the funny part about this is whole argument...

On a recent thread people were complaining KTU was a CHR twin, and on this thread they're being called that old, tired disco repetition station again. By definition these two points of view couldn't be farther apart. LOL either they're mirroring all the current hits or they are 40 years ago!

I know hardcore current dance fans wrote off KTU when they tweaked to survive years ago in dance's dark days, I get that, but the general American public aren't that in tune to the dance world -- most people in NY still call KTU a dance station. KTU jumps on pop rhythmic songs/artists quicker, like playing two versions of Rita Ora's Party, Madonna's lastest two singles, Chris Brown, Nicki Minaj, and Jessie J... they do play dance currents and recurrents from the likes of Avicii, Calvin Harris, Kat Deluna, Afrojack (loved Take Over Control the first go-round, love it again), Edward Maya, David Guetta, Kim Sozzi, Benny Benassi, Pitbull, and Alexandra Stan... they have dance gold from Enur, The Cataracs, Lasgo, Bob Sinclair, Cascada and others... plus the mix shows and HH's Top 30 countdown.

It's not your momma's disco KTU anymore... it's for people who came of age between 1995 and today! There is a reason its so high in the Cume and ratings and why it does well in virtually every important demo 18 and up. I am working towards my Masters in North Carolina and I intern with the athletic department, anytime I stream KTU in the facilities, I get asked without fail by students practicing or working out in the gyms or arena, "what was that station you were streaming" -- so it clicks with people.

It's like I said to Barry with the reasoning why I stated about 'KTU's success. It hits well with the women. They aren't going to go into deeper research on dance and are into what is tried and safe. The on-air personalities are fun, and that helps make things work. But the reality is, the station is RHYTHMIC A/C. Just because it has beats and an energetic flow does not necessarily make it "dance" (at least in the definition of it). Even though 92.3 Now mirrors some of what 'KTU plays, their presentation is much more energetic. The Saturday Night Mix shows on Now are much more energetic. If we're going to go on that, then I consider 92.3 Now more of a dance station than 'KTU even though they are CHR.

Not saying don't like the station. I know you have been a big fan of the station and that's fine . But let's call it what it is here because if a new dance station launches down the road, yes you take SOME of what 'KTU has in terms of the commercial aspect but bring on our "brand" into it as well.

 

[Jeffrey]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

the thing is...what consitutes a dance station today? I understand this rhythmic pop is not what hard core dance fans want but you can't declassify it either. New York has a strong history with dance and this uptempo pop does nothing but ripen the atmosphere. Music is evolving and so it dance and at a time when David Guetta graces the airwaves on 3-4 stations in this market you can certainly expect further evolution where the genre is concerned.

 

[JustinCase]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Tony, I was 18 when KTU signed on in '96 and clubbed with them after that... to me KTU has been the closest thing America gets to successfully doing a full power commercial dance station and they've been basically the same structure since resurrecting the dance brand... they've always mixed gold rhythmic pop/dance tracks with current rhythmic pop/dance tracks... along the way, based on the music tastes/trends they have tweaked their Golds... when dance was passe, KTU relied very heavy on classic dance to survive, because new dance wasn't selling and its artists were commercially not accepted by the public!

The biggest difference today? Top 40 music is more dance and rhythmic than at any time in a VERY LONG TIME... so KTU sounds like a Rhythmic Top 40/AC blend. Nothing wrong with that! It hasn't stopped me from tapping my hand on the steering wheel, running a little faster at the gym, or pumping me up to go out, and hearing it at virtually every pizza joint on the west side.

When I'm home in the City, and I'm stuck in traffic, I'll flip back and forth between KTU, Z100, and NOW (around the commercials); it's not that I dislike Now's music, 90% or more of it is the same... I will just start feeling NOW and they'll switch it up... it's like they have an identity issue. Depending who is on the air I feel like I get a whiplash - are they Top 40, are they Rhythmic Top 40, sometimes they feel a little street like Hot or Power?? Plus, honestly their air staff is just so unfocused as a radio guy its PAINFUL to listen to at times. Sure I know some of the KTU jocks and I like them, BUT it's Z100 that has the tightest staff in the City, they know their audience and they stick to their game and there is a reason they kick NOW's a$$ -- every mainstream Top 40 in the nation wants to be them for a reason!

The one thing I'd like KTU to do is be more aggressive with their mix shows... they have them sprinkled throughout the day and night and they're all sponsored and sold... there is no reason they can't get a little more edgy mixing the remixing the biggest pop hits with more cutting edge songs (that really don't have a marketable place in regular rotation) but would be killer for partying at night (and especially on Friday and Saturday nights)!

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Tony, I was 18 when KTU signed on in '96 and clubbed with them after that... to me KTU has been the closest thing America gets to successfully doing a full power commercial dance station and they've been basically the same structure since resurrecting the dance brand... they've always mixed gold rhythmic pop/dance tracks with current rhythmic pop/dance tracks... along the way, based on the music tastes/trends they have tweaked their Golds... when dance was passe, KTU relied very heavy on classic dance to survive, because new dance wasn't selling and its artists were commercially not accepted by the public!

The same structure? NO! That changed in 2006 when 'KTU dropped the edgier dance (for what few they played anyway) for this homogenized rhythmic pop adult oriented sound that they are no. They bailed on dance...dance was NEVER passe.

The biggest difference today? Top 40 music is more dance and rhythmic than at any time in a VERY LONG TIME... so KTU sounds like a Rhythmic Top 40/AC blend. Nothing wrong with that! It hasn't stopped me from tapping my hand on the steering wheel, running a little faster at the gym, or pumping me up to go out, and hearing it at virtually every pizza joint on the west side.

And if you love the station, good for you. Not many guys do. You are a rarity.

When I'm home in the City, and I'm stuck in traffic, I'll flip back and forth between KTU, Z100, and NOW (around the commercials); it's not that I dislike Now's music, 90% or more of it is the same... I will just start feeling NOW and they'll switch it up... it's like they have an identity issue. Depending who is on the air I feel like I get a whiplash - are they Top 40, are they Rhythmic Top 40, sometimes they feel a little street like Hot or Power?? Plus, honestly their air staff is just so unfocused as a radio guy its PAINFUL to listen to at times. Sure I know some of the KTU jocks and I like them, BUT it's Z100 that has the tightest staff in the City, they know their audience and they stick to their game and there is a reason they kick NOW's a$$ -- every mainstream Top 40 in the nation wants to be them for a reason!

Z-100 has been "in the game" with CHR (more or less) since 1983. They were credited with the rebirth of Top 40/CHR and the introduction to a daily "morning show". They have been around for a long time and haven't had direct competition with their format for a LONG time until Now showed up. I really think for Z-100 it has more to do with their longevity than anything. They just have a stronger image because of that longevity.

The one thing I'd like KTU to do is be more aggressive with their mix shows... they have them sprinkled throughout the day and night and they're all sponsored and sold... there is no reason they can't get a little more edgy mixing the remixing the biggest pop hits with more cutting edge songs (that really don't have a marketable place in regular rotation) but would be killer for partying at night (and especially on Friday and Saturday nights)!

And it's because of their "brand" along with that protection of Z-100 that you are NOT going to hear any edgy mix shows on 'KTU. And those edgy songs DO have a marketable place in regular rotation. It's just unfortunate that our dance branded labels don't have the huge financial "clout" than the big labels out there that CAN market their artists because they HAVE the disposable money to promote their music and yield their "influence" to such stations to get their music on. If our labels had that same financial clout, then you would not be saying that our dance artists aren't "marketable".

Having said that, our music IS indeed marketable if the radio corporations out there leveled the "playing field" somehow.

 

[JustinCase]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

The same structure? NO! That changed in 2006 when 'KTU dropped the edgier dance (for what few they played anyway) for this homogenized rhythmic pop adult oriented sound that they are no. They bailed on dance...dance was NEVER passe.

We all know they tweaked... but KTU was on life support, 18th in the ratings with a 2-share at the time of their classic tweak! The general public couldn't have given two $hits about "dance" music at the time (2005-2006)... people wanted hip hop, rap, and reggaeton. So the tweak happened, the pop current/recurrents continued, they increased the gold each hour, and adjusted the dance current with a rhythmic/reggaeton current or recurrent... Thankfully, music tastes change in cycles and dance/pop sound is returning to favor again.

And if you love the station, good for you. Not many guys do. You are a rarity.

I dunno if I love it, no station is perfect, but I'm probably a P1... I'm a radio guy, I like listening to radio to feel connected (especially now that I'm not home all the time having gone back to school for my masters) and KTU is the closest thing on the air-waves to what I'm looking for, so I listen regularly!!

Z-100 has been "in the game" with CHR (more or less) since 1983. They were credited with the rebirth of Top 40/CHR and the introduction to a daily "morning show". They have been around for a long time and haven't had direct competition with their format for a LONG time until Now showed up. I really think for Z-100 it has more to do with their longevity than anything. They just have a stronger image because of that longevity.

No doubt Tony, heritage has a big part of it, but their delivery is on point and reinforces that image you speak of... They make sure people know who they're listening to, they know who their audience is, and they never try to be something they're not. That's why NOW has never been able to make a serious play at them.

those edgy songs DO have a marketable place in regular rotation. It's just unfortunate that our dance branded labels don't have the huge financial "clout" than the big labels out there that CAN market their artists because they HAVE the disposable money to promote their music and yield their "influence" to such stations to get their music on. If our labels had that same financial clout, then you would not be saying that our dance artists aren't "marketable".

Having said that, our music IS indeed marketable if the radio corporations out there leveled the "playing field" somehow.

The internet has drastically leveled the playing field -- the problem is, a lot of dance music's enthusiasts would rather share the music than pay for it. Many hardcore dance fans are unwilling to spend even 99 cents or a buck twenty on itunes in any serious numbers to make a statement for their artists on the itunes charts, let alone enough to make a dent on amazon or in store sales, to get high on billboard lists and thus tapscan impacts to make a station marketable by its sales staffs! It's a vicious cycle that until dance music can fully sell itself to its core and make money, won't go main stream... the only mainstream artists are those who are out there working with pop artists who are already mainstream... The dance list on itunes, except for Skrillex, it looks like KTU, so its hard to get a sense of what the purchasing population and the record labels list as dance music.

Tony, I remember back when Pulse 87 was on, I said on here, I couldn't believe some of the local dance dj's/artists were going on Pulse and were basically getting caught up in the Pulse imaging and taking disco shots at KTU. I said at the time it was unprofessional to burn bridges and stupid of their agents/labels to allow them to do it. I want your opinion, have some people burned bridges and hurt their chances of getting back on KTU as dance as had a resurgence?

Finally, speaking of burned bridges -- I noticed on KTU's website yesterday, the Beatstock link is back on the drop-down menu and again links to pics of the last KTU sponsored event... I wonder if this means both sides have reconciled after last summer's disaster! Have you heard any rumblings on a 2012 edition?

 

[nd2023]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Dance artists are the "struggling independent artists" that depend on digital music sales. Many of them have another primary source of income and they produce music for the love of it. The problem is that they're not exposed enough on the radio, including FM, HD, and Internet radio. But once people hear the music and like it, they'll buy more of it! The problem isn't that people aren't buying the music, it's that people aren't exposed to the music. If anything, downloading the music is better than not hearing it at all. Some artists even give away their music for free to build exposure.

The best way for them to get exposure is to submit their music to subscription music services like Pandora, Spotify, Rdio, Grooveshark, etc. Those services let people listen as much as they want for one low monthly fee, and the artists get paid based on how many times a track is played.

 

[JustinCase]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Exposure / Airplay / Sales -- which comes first... it's like the chicken or the egg

There is obviously no easy answer to that or there would be dance stations in every major city in America...

 

[Jeffrey]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Exposure / Airplay / Sales -- which comes first... it's like the chicken or the egg

There is obviously no easy answer to that or there would be dance stations in every major city in America...

yes I am curious about that one. I don't honestly know if a full fledged dance station would make money in New York even though dance has alot of roots here. I do however wonder why dance is so big in Europe and basically non existant in the US. especially outside of the clubs.

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Exposure / Airplay / Sales -- which comes first... it's like the chicken or the egg

There is obviously no easy answer to that or there would be dance stations in every major city in America...

That could be said for ANY format actually, not just dance.

 

[nd2023]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Let's say I win the Powerball and buy up a lot of radio stations across the country and flip them to dance. I would think that would bring a ton of exposure to dance music in the US. And I have no doubt that it would turn a profit. It just wouldn't bring as much profit as other formats.

 

[101NY]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Finds it funny that Today's CHR is very dance friendly. I recall the days of when you had 'PLJ, 'QHT and 'HTZ all playing the same song's like TKA, Steve B & Noel. (FREESTYLE Genre) And now 20yrs later replace 'QHT for 'XRK & 'KTU, to the line up of stations playing what is HOT in music today. Now there was a time when song's that 'QHT would've played had they not gone urban, that then CHR/RHY 'KTU was able to play for there was a market for it.

Though just cause a station is playing David Guetta doesn't make them a "Dance Station".. Tony S. would concur in NY there is NO per say all Dance Music Station left. For WKTU is Rhythmic/AC they went that way when then WNEW was doing that with Frankie Blue/Rick Martini were at the Helm. "REACTING" and also the fine folks at CC-NY felt that there CHR/RHYTHMIC sound was "TOO MUCH" from what I was told from a former staffer.

But to have a station like a PULSE on the air again would be nice, being able to have that "Go To" station. But as I said in an earlier post elsewhere.. Its all about revenue, to be able to keep in the green with ad's and cost of the station from salaries to promotions. Even though the 12+ demo can careless whose on the radio, most companies are focused on them. Forgetting the Money is in 25-44, but today's programming is geared for 18-34 or 25-54.. So a person between 28-32 get's clumped into those demo's

 

[Wildstyle K]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I THOUGHT 94.1 and 95.7 were currently dance...  ???

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I THOUGHT 94.1 and 95.7 were currently dance... ???

They are dance. But they are also 70 miles NORTH of New York City running on translator, which is great if you live in the Hudson Valley region (Newburgh, Middletown, Kingston, Poughkeepsie). But once you head down to the Westchester/Rockland region, you're out of luck. So in that sense, we have nothing.

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

101, you seem knowledgeable about the dance format. Makes me wonder who you are actually.

There is one thing I had thought about regarding the money situation. Granted radio in 1988 is certainly NOT radio today, but I still need to make this point and if someone needs to correct me then please do so.

Emmis Communications (the station that owned...and still owns, Hot 97) did make a respectable amount of money back in the days when they had a Top 40/Urban format (aka: dance) from 1986 - 1991 and it was really bad investments (such as owning the Seattle Mariners baseball team) that made the company reassess things; add TO the fact that hip-hop was "blowing up" to the point that it could sustain it's own format, and that's where Emmis went for the money in that. Perhaps Emmis would have gone for the hip-hop format flip anyway, but I think the dance music format could have been around longer if it weren't for the bad investments.

With Pulse 87, we all know what happened there so it's a waste of time to repeat that.

Though the revenue discussion is something that made me think. As I've said in the past, a market like New York would be profitable for a company to do a dance format. But with these corporations, they want that HUGE profit. Heck, any company does. They're not seeking a RESPECTABLE profit, which I think best categorizes the dance format. I think more money CAN be made this time around because of the trends as of late, and such a station would be in the Top 5 billing. But based on what these advertisers think of the demos out there, at the very least the profit would be RESPECTABLE. I strongly do not believe that the format would fail, and that's the point. But then, the companies want a boatload of money and that may not happen immediately at first.

 

[TonySantiago]

Re: does New York have 3 dance stations?

The internet has drastically leveled the playing field -- the problem is, a lot of dance music's enthusiasts would rather share the music than pay for it. Many hardcore dance fans are unwilling to spend even 99 cents or a buck twenty on itunes in any serious numbers to make a statement for their artists on the itunes charts, let alone enough to make a dent on amazon or in store sales, to get high on billboard lists and thus tapscan impacts to make a station marketable by its sales staffs! It's a vicious cycle that until dance music can fully sell itself to its core and make money, won't go main stream... the only mainstream artists are those who are out there working with pop artists who are already mainstream... The dance list on itunes, except for Skrillex, it looks like KTU, so its hard to get a sense of what the purchasing population and the record labels list as dance music.

Tony, I remember back when Pulse 87 was on, I said on here, I couldn't believe some of the local dance dj's/artists were going on Pulse and were basically getting caught up in the Pulse imaging and taking disco shots at KTU. I said at the time it was unprofessional to burn bridges and stupid of their agents/labels to allow them to do it. I want your opinion, have some people burned bridges and hurt their chances of getting back on KTU as dance as had a resurgence?

Finally, speaking of burned bridges -- I noticed on KTU's website yesterday, the Beatstock link is back on the drop-down menu and again links to pics of the last KTU sponsored event... I wonder if this means both sides have reconciled after last summer's disaster! Have you heard any rumblings on a 2012 edition?

Regarding buying the music, now THERE is a statement I STRONGLY agree with you on.

On the end of my show, I always say the creed "Dance Music, Live It, Love It, BUY IT", with strong reason. Granted, everyone out there busts their "tail" to produce music for the people to take in and it does hurt more for the long run. Then you have the insistence of core fans that if an artists really wants to make money, then they are "selling out". IMHO, I don't believe ANY artist is all about creating music just for the sheer sake of it; they want to take in some sort of money. Maybe not a windfall but certainly not for free either. Then again, I also don't believe that radio is going to OUR areas for an understanding. They're not looking at Beatport, Traxsource or any of the dance music specialized online retailers. At BEST, maybe FMQB but then they're not Billboard and those charts, IMHO are a sham anyway.

Regarding Pulse 87, 'KTU was already rhythmic A/C in 2008. In terms of on-air personalities Jewelz Lopez had already left 'KTU before this happened. Showboat was a part-timer at 'KTU. Kenyatta "The Gossip Girl" (although he did gossip reports only) was gone from working as a receptionist at 'KTU. Everyone else there was NOT a 'KTU staffer (Star/Buc Wild - all from Power 105.1, Andre The Dre Dog - Party 105. Joel Salkowitz had done similar "radio wars" imaging back at the Hot 103 days so for him to do that at Pulse 87 was no surprise. Now with most of the artists that appeared at Pulse 87, 'KTU was NEVER going to give them that shot anyway (Kim Sozzi was the rare exception) so there was never a "bridge burnt" because that bridge was actually burnt years before thanks to the tweaks being done by Rob Miller (PD at 'KTU). BUT, and that's a strong BUT, if 'KTU would go dance, going on this resurgence so to speak, these artists would be there. It's all about money anyway, right?

Regarding a Beatstock 2012 edition, I am hoping that both sides made up and brought the "peace" back to each other, though I can't confirm a 2012 edition as of yet. Last year's event was a disaster that I hope not to relive.