DOES THE BLOOMINGTON COL HURT WTTS IN INDY?

[hoosier45guy]

IMO WTTS has a great on-air product. But looking at the current Arbs, there they are again down below 10th place.

Do you think it has to do with their having a Bloomington city of license plus the fairly common knowledge that the studio is still located down there? I believe the sales and promotion office as well as Studio 92 is in downtown Indy.

The WTTS legal ID says Bloomington / Indianapolis. Realizing there are other stations in the market with ID's like Brownsburg / Indianapolis or Greenfield / Indianapolis you wouldn't think that would be a problem.

Is having the heritage Bloomington COL perceived as being just too far distant and disconnected from the Indy market?

 

[PTBoardOp94]

AAA is a niche format. If they decided to go ... country or something, they'd probably get a 4-6 share.

 

[ChiefEngineer]

WGCT was that their calls when they were country for 10 plus years. Then they were concerned Columbus was their biggest threat. They removed that threat by changing format.

Still doesn't bill what rainbow WB does. Radio has a specific term I won't use but if you were a pimp selling radio Wb would fit that model.

But still, with the Bloomingtonesque format if they just sold Bloomington and wiped WB's plate wouldn't that be better for them? Be College town cool, show up in Broad Ripple every weekend and get those freaks (I mean P1's actually), and serve that format niche as best you can. Wait, isn't that what they are trying to do?

Maybe they are happy with what they are doing and that's why they haven't changed.

 

[Mid West Clubber]

A few possibilities..... they could go chr with a dance lean and still focus on indy,, Or bring back active-alt rock rock-92.... to b-town.... wrzx is no longer listenable in b-town due to a translater on 103.1..... Or how about Power 92.... Power hits, Power classics... a chr that still plays 90s and 80s,,, but not in an Ac or Jack style....... Ask Scott Wayman from wcbk martinsville,,, which btw,,, thanks wcbk for keeping us safe and informed during yesterdays storm... true local comunity radio....

 

[rubberchicken]

Do you think it has to do with their having a Bloomington city of license plus the fairly common knowledge that the studio is still located down there?

No. Studio, maybe slightly, but no on the COL. They only use it once an hour. No one but radio geeks pay attention to the COL at the TOH.
It's a niche format, its not going to pull 6 shares. I think they sound fine.

And why would they go CHR? Indy has WNOU, WRWM, in a way WZPL, and in a way WHHH. Doesn't need another friggin Top 40!
A more Alternative Rock lean would be interesting, in the vein of WBOS Boston and WRFF Philly.

 

[Onesimus]

I think it does really well for an adult alternative. Chief brings up a good point about their country days. Actually Barnstable Broadcasting was going to buy WTTS back in late '87 and flip it back to country targeting Indianapolis (Nick Anthony was going to program it). Sarkes Tarzian was going to buy WBWB and put 'TTS on 96.7. The deal fell through after it was challenged by a local group (led by an IU professor named Terry). One wonders how the radio landscape in Indy would be different now if the plan had moved forward.

 

[gr8oldies]

How does WTTS do on getting advertising from Indy vs. Bloomington?

 

[cspotrun]

AAA is a niche format. If they decided to go ... country or something, they'd probably get a 4-6 share.

are they making money being in 10th place? maybe if they're selling to the Bloomington market?
to me that great grandfathered signal is a total waste with what they're doing. on the other hand, ST does very well in Ft. Wayne doing oldies with a 3K pea shooter. i've always thought TTS could do much better in another format-virtually ANY other format that is commercially viable. maybe they're happy serving the dorm rooms at IU. they should go Classic Hits, or Country..
and move the studio's to Indy, IF they want to be an Indianapolis station.

 

[dave73]

There's a problem with this station trying to compete with Indianapolis stations. Bloomington isn't part of the Indianapolis Arbitron market, even though their grandfathered 37kw signal at 1089 ft. (332m) reaches Indianapolis with Grade A coverage. The only counties that are part of the Indianapolis Arbitron market are: Marion, Hamilton, Boone, Hancock, Hendricks, Morgan, Johnson, & Shelby Counties. So even though WTTS shows up in the Indianapolis book, the ratings don't truly count. A similar situation occured in the Chicago market years ago when 99.9 was licensed to Kankakee Illinois. Kankakee County isn't part of the Chicago Arbitron market. So no matter what the ratings were, they didn't count, due to the COL being outside of the market, even though the signal covered a part of the market (the south suburbs). When that station was sold, the COL was changed to Park Forest Illinois in order to get the ratings to count. The same thing would have to be done with WTTS, should they want their ratings to be counted in the Indianapolis Arbitron book. The COL would have to be changed to a city that's within the Arbitron Market. Unlike 99.9 Park Forest, which has rimshot coverage in Chicago, WTTS has the coverage needed to compete with Indianapolis stations. Here's the link for the updated Arbitron maps: http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/Arb_US_Metro_Map_09.pdf.

 

[KyDXIn]

The same thing would have to be done with WTTS, should they want their ratings to be counted in the Indianapolis Arbitron book. The COL would have to be changed to a city that's within the Arbitron Market. Unlike 99.9 Park Forest, which has rimshot coverage in Chicago, WTTS has the coverage needed to compete with Indianapolis stations. Here's the link for the updated Arbitron maps: http://www.arbitron.com/downloads/Arb_US_Metro_Map_09.pdf.

When former WAKY and WHAS dj legend Gary Burbank was at WLW in Cincy, that station would at times show up in the Louisville ratings. It just proves that if you have a good product, people will listen.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Dave, I don't know what you mean by "Didn't Count". To whom?

 

[cspotrun]

Dave, I don't know what you mean by "Didn't Count". To whom?

i'm puzzled too, when is it that the number of listeners do NOT count and are ignored as if these are NON-People? TTS numbers always show up on the Indianapolis list, how? why? in fact with the lame format they're doing now, they are beating some Indianapolis stations. it seems to me, people listen, and they're counted when they write it down and the station can be heard in the market.

 

[MikeStandardsFromIndiana]

Ive Seen WLW show up in the Dayton and Columbus Ratings as well. Heck some Cincy FM's show up in Dayton's book and Dayton FM's in Cincy's book

 

[fwmw]

Ive Seen WLW show up in the Dayton and Columbus Ratings as well. Heck some Cincy FM's show up in Dayton's book and Dayton FM's in Cincy's book

WLW shows up in Lima, Ohio, too.

 

[gr8oldies]

Lexington, Huntington, Ft Wayne..

 

[dave73]

Dave, I don't know what you mean by "Didn't Count". To whom?

i'm puzzled too, when is it that the number of listeners do NOT count and are ignored as if these are NON-People? TTS numbers always show up on the Indianapolis list, how? why? in fact with the lame format they're doing now, they are beating some Indianapolis stations. it seems to me, people listen, and they're counted when they write it down and the station can be heard in the market.

I'm not in radio. So I don't have the full answers. Radio stations will show up in a book if enough people rate them. I believe it has more to do with advertising dollars. Since Bloomington isn't part of the Indianapolis Arbitron market, I don't believe they could charge Indianapolis ad rates, since the COL is outside of the Indianapolis market. Don't hold me on that. WGN & WBBM-AM show up in more than 1 Arbitron market diary. However, WGN & WBBM-AM aren't gonna get advertisers from outside of the Chicago market (other than national advertisement, which is something completely different).


I don't know if WTTS is really trying to compete with stations licensed to Indianapolis & stations that have their COL's in the Indianapolis Arbitron market, or if they're happy being a Bloomington station. The ratings have more to do with how well the stations rate, and how much a station can charge for advertising. Who knows if WTTS even subscribes to Arbitron. I still say that if WTTS is wanting to compete with Indianapolis stations, then the COL needs to be changed so the rating truly count, and they can charge Indianapolis rates. A format that people want doesn't hurt either.

At least in the Indianapolis market (even South Bend & Fort Wayne), it's possible a 3-6kw Class A station could beat Class B signals, due to fewer counties to rate, unlike Chicago, where suburban stations with their signals in the suburbs (except WLEY) don't have strong enough signals to cover the entire market.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

I imagine WTTS sells avails for roughly the same price as other stations actually licensed to Indy who are selling a 3.0 12+ rating with a mediocre demo share. (i.e 107.9)

 

[N_D_Radioguy]

I'm not in radio.

That says it all right there.

Dave, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

COL is irrelevant to Arbitron ratings. If a station shows up in a particular market's book, that station is obviously reaching listeners in that market. If said station -- WTTS -- has a big enough number, it could broadcast from studios in Timbuktu with a COL of BF, Egypt, and still charge Indianapolis rates to advertisers. Even with its [poorly executed] niche format, 'TTS makes its money off its Indy advertisers.

Dave, I suggest you sit bad and listen while the big people talk.

... and quit using the colored font -- it's hard to read and looks retarded.

 

[Stephen-novice]

Who wants to play "Spot the Jackass"?

I do.

I'm not in radio. 

That says it all right there.

Dave, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

COL is irrelevant to Arbitron ratings.   If a station shows up in a particular market's book, that station is obviously reaching listeners in that market.   If said station -- WTTS -- has a big enough number, it could broadcast from studios in Timbuktu with a COL of BF, Egypt, and still charge Indianapolis rates to advertisers.   Even with its [poorly executed] niche format, 'TTS makes its money off its Indy advertisers.

Dave, I suggest you sit bad and listen while the big people talk.

... and quit using the colored font -- it's hard to read and looks retarded.

You could use your knowledge of the business of radio to help Dave and the rest of us novices understand the topic at hand, but no. You had to show yourself as a gigantic tool. Congratulations. I hope you feel better about yourself.

 

[cspotrun]

if there were a Perfect candidate to pick up the Classic Hits format from KLU it would be TTS.. Sarkes does damn well with it in Ft. Wayne with a 3K pea shooter, imagine what they could do with that signal in Indy.. the "Format" has never had a REAL chance in Indy since 104.5 went to Jack... there have been 2 lame attempts with weak signals that didn't cover the entire metro.. in my way of thinking, what do they have to lose? unless they LIKE 2 & 3 shares.