Don't go selling spots to pot shops just yet!

[Kelly A]

The first part has been a problem for a long time. What's now WNOB 93.7 re-licensed itself from Elizabeth City, NC to Chesapeake, VA because it got into trouble for selling ads for Virginia Lottery. At the time, North Carolina had no state lottery or any kind of legal gambling, and advertising gambling was illegal there. Now that lotteries and casinos are ubiquitous most everywhere, you don't encounter that often, but broadcasters have been dealing with issues like that for a long time.

Virginia Lottery and gaming apps advertise on TV and radio like crazy now. It couldn't have come at a better time, considering auto has diminished by over 50%.

 

[Kelly A]

Do you know if was changed by the voters, or done thru state legislation and the Governor?

A couple years ago I was in the Shoreline WA. Costco, and was surprised to see massive stacks of hard liquor for sale.

 

[seatownmedia]

Yes it was a ballot measure. Passed 60-40. But only for 10,000 square feet plus locations, which generally exclude convenience stores.

 

[KilowattKat]

Yes it was a ballot measure. Passed 60-40. But only for 10,000 square feet plus locations.

Well, that pretty much leaves most stores not being able to sell it. As Kelly mentioned above it only benefits the big box stores. I'm not sure why WA state has such a hard line against alcohol. It's viewed as a fairly liberal state, except for maybe the Tri-Cities where you are.

 

[seatownmedia]

Most Safeway’s, Albertsons, Fred Meyer, meet the criteria. You can buy liquor at most full service grocery stores in most cities in Washington. In Tri cities almost every grocery store offers it. There seems be a lot of misinformation on this topic. Perhaps a misunderstanding of how big 10,000 square feet actually is.

 

[davideduardo]

What's even more confusing is that I see ads for CBD on local TV and the national cable channels???

Those commercial in the national channels are locally inserted in the clock positions that are set up for local cable systems to sell ads in.

 

[KilowattKat]

Most Safeway’s, Albertsons, Fred Meyer, meet the criteria. You can liquor at most full service grocery stores.

But it hurts the small businesses, who really need the sales it would bring them, sounds like big corporate is only benefiting.

 

[Kelly A]

Those commercial in the national channels are locally inserted in the clock positions that are set up for local cable systems to sell ads in.

That, and cable channels are not licensed by the FCC.

 

[davideduardo]

Well, that pretty much leaves most stores not being able to sell it. As Kelly mentioned above it only benefits the big box stores. I'm not sure why WA state has such a hard line against alcohol. It's viewed as a fairly liberal state, except for maybe the Tri-Cities where you are.

10,000 square feet is really, really small for a supermarket.

From Progressive Grocer: "The average grocery store size is currently 38,000 square feet, with small formats ranging in size between 12,000 square feet and 25,000 square feet, and even smaller in urban markets."

 

[KilowattKat]

Those commercial in the national channels are locally inserted in the clock positions that are set up for local cable systems to sell ads in.

I guess CBD advertising is a fine line compared to marijuana dispensary ads, that Cox Cable and others are willing to cross.

 

[KilowattKat]

That, and cable channels are not licensed by the FCC.

Ah! There you go, now it makes sense.

 

[KilowattKat]

10,000 square feet is really, really small for a supermarket.

From Progressive Grocer: "The average grocery store size is currently 38,000 square feet, with small formats ranging in size between 12,000 square feet and 25,000 square feet, and even smaller in urban markets."

But, it is still an unfair disadvantage for the small mom and pop retail stores.

 

[Kent]

I guess CBD advertising is a fine line compared to marijuana dispensary ads, that Cox Cable and others are willing to cross.

CBD also typically doesn't contain any significant amount of THC. Of course, I don’t know how you manufacture CBD oil without growing some of the illegal herb. So, that might not make advertising it legal.

I'm not sure why WA state has such a hard line against alcohol. It's viewed as a fairly liberal state, except for maybe the Tri-Cities where you are.

Oregon and Idaho are, or at least used to be, “control states,” too. The logic was that keeping the profit incentive out of alcohol sales would disincentivize addiction. The worry was that a nefarious liquor store owner might initially sell the booze at a lower cost to get people hooked. There was also the concern that someone might do what was done for years in Whiteclay, Nebraska. Whiteclay was within walking distance of the edge of the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, where alcohol sales are banned, in neighboring South Dakota. The entire town consisted of little more than liquor stores and grocery stores that sold more liquor than food. Whiteclay sold the most liquor per capita in the entire country at one point. When the liquor stores are state owned, the state can decide whether or not to sell in certain areas and how many stores should be in a particular area.

WFAN New York was airing ads for sports betting companies more than a year before gambling on sports (other than horse racing) was made legal in New York. In fact, until last fall, when Connecticut allowed it, only New Jersey in the Tri-State area had legalized it. But the big difference between gambling on team sports is the federal schedule of narcotics. Otherwise, there's hardly any difference. Both can be addictive and lead to excesses that can harm oneself or others. But the same can be said of alcoholic beverages, and there are few restrictions left (none at the federal level) on the advertising of those. Good ol' 'Murrican hypocrisy at work!

If you were wondering, this is the FCC rule on gambling ads: Broadcast Contests, Lotteries, and Solicitation of Funds. When it came to alcohol ads, distilled spirits companies voluntarily agreed to stay off the airwaves, at least during prime viewing hours, until the mid-90’s. I believe a TV station in Corpus Christi, TX was the first to air a hard liquor ad for Crown Royal.

 

[seatownmedia]

But what if that branding statement no longer resonates with a modern audience? TV spends a ton more on audience research and perception than radio.

Well, ask KABC about that. They still use the slogan and still are number one in LA but just in evenings. They certainly have stiff competition in other dayparts, which in LA, is about every hour of the day.

Or perhaps those shows just weren't any good. That demo is the core of OTA radio listenership.

And yes the conservative format succeeds. There is a reason for that and it goes back to radio listeners generally are right wing.

Jimmy Carter, Obama, and Biden exemplify a moderate democratic attitude that works. The secret is to be “moderately liberal”. I don’t know why this is hard to understand. Finding the middle is extremely important.

I am not saying Bush 1 was a bad leader, and I am not saying Bush 2 was a failure. I think both did their best. I just think democratic leadership has been more successful.

Can we move all the politics to another thread please and keep this one focused on KJR and Seattle radio?

Believe it or not, that's pretty much true. American politics for the most part is shifted right compared to the rest of the globe, and it can explain why America hasn't adopted universal healthcare or the metric system like the rest of the developed world. A modern-day Democrat in the United States (with the exception of a handful of people like Bernie Sanders) is actually closer to the centre of the political spectrum than toward the left, while most Republicans are farther to the right of the spectrum.

A lot of us did. Only one car I owned (the first, for nine months) had just an AM radio. But I knew I was replacing it as soon as I had the money saved, and I budgeted for an 8-track deck (it was 1973) and a cartridge-style FM converter.

Remember, though---if you've already paid $75 for a factory AM radio, adding to that is a big swallow. That $75 PTBoardOp cites from 1976 for an AM radio is $373.97 today. The $226 for AM/FM? That's $1,126.89 in today's money. Top-of-the-line iPhone money. Aftermarket was only a little less expensive (unless you went for cheap/bad), speakers were sold separately and installation cost money.

And in the 70s, the adults/parents were products of the Great Depression. My mom thought I was insane to drop $175 (installed) for a stereo in a car I'd just bought with a "perfectly good" AM radio that...yes, I had paid for. I could have ordered either an AM/FM mono or an AM/FM stereo radio in the car, but the prices, as we see above, were nuts. And this model didn't have a factory tape deck option and I wanted to be able to pick my own music sometimes. So I knew I could do better, if only slightly less expensively, with an under-dash Clarion 8-track, four speakers and a cartridge-style FM adaptor.

An interesting thing though: A lot more of us in my hometown of 3,000 people with only one radio station (AM) and no outside over-the-air signals until sundown (there was Los Angeles FM on cable and a 10-watt translator of dubious legality rebroadcasting KKDJ) had tape decks and FM in our cars than did friends of mine in L.A. We were reacting to a lack of choice. But there was still a lot on the AM band in Los Angeles. So people made do with what was the least expensive. Which, if you look at an AM radio as $373 and an AM/FM as $1,100, is pretty understandable. In fact, now, I realize I should have felt ripped off by the AM price.

Like say play music that would appeal to demos outside the norm? For example, the station would play music like "you ain't nothing but a hound dog" by Elvis Presley or music from the 50s-70s? Would it have any kind of advertising power?

That's 104.7 KJUL Moapa Valley, NV. They are somehow managing to stay on the air with the same Soft AC. The pandemic almost did them in. They had to stop broadcasting for awhile, when all their ad revenue went away. They are automated now, still haven't recovered financially to be able to hire back any staff.

No, you are correct. The skill set has changed. All I needed in '78 was a good voice, a somewhat knowledge of contemporary music, and a somewhat decent apprearance. Got me to a major Seattle station in late '79. Yes, they were different times!

$875,000+ for a 3-bedroom home in north Bothell, in the neighborhood I grew up in. Which was $200,000 20 years ago. Mind you, 1980s-built homes, not a new housing development, which pops up about as often as another rainstorm in Seattle.
That sums up one of several reasons why I will never return to western Washington. As a teacher, I'll be stuck in apartments at $1800-2000+ a month, and/or living in Gold Bar or Mt. Vernon just to drive into Edmonds / Everett / Northshore / Lake Washington schools. Even with starting salaries at $60K+ in some districts. That same house in West Yakima is $350,000 or less. Why bother, as I could save up for a few years and then buy that house on monthly payments! Lol!!! I'd have to win the Mega Millions or Lotto to buy back my old Bothell home.
Actually, Richland is even cheaper, and the population went up 25% from 2010 to 2020, shows you that many Seattleites and Californians are leaving in droves - and Hispanic immigrants also are continuing to move in/move up. Our own Seatownmedia lives out in Tri-Cities. The growth is enormous. New elementary schools are being built yearly! Too bad radio out there isn't too great (outside of 101.9 Hank FM).

When I worked for a small market AC, research was looking at what larger market AC's were playing and adjusting our playlist accordingly. The station did an auditorium test in 1995, and that was the last one ever done by that company. We had no in-house call out, though we worked with outside companies from time-to-time. We also had a consultant who recommended songs. The local company sold to Cumulus in 2004, and Cumulus had its own way of researching music and listener preferences. I'm not sure if Cumulus did that in house or contracted with an outside company for research, but, at the time, its brand managers determined which songs could fit in which categories and which ones could be added to playlists on any given week.

I understand that has changed since the Dickeys were pushed out, but I suspect the end results are similar as the suggestions coming from brand managers are probably still the only information most PD's have.

Even the sale of hard liquor is controlled by Washington state government, requiring it to be purchased at a state run retail store. One of the few states that does this. But didn't they legalize recreational marijuana? Go figure.

10,000 square feet is really, really small for a supermarket.

From Progressive Grocer: "The average grocery store size is currently 38,000 square feet, with small formats ranging in size between 12,000 square feet and 25,000 square feet, and even smaller in urban markets."

 

[seatownmedia]

And this explains why most grocery stores in Washington State can sell liquor.

As a sidebar, Washington’s neighbors have stricter liquor laws. Oregon still requires a visit to a state store. Yes, some of them have Sunday hours, some don’t. Idaho is even more strict with less Sunday openings. As I mentioned earlier, Washington grocery sales are open except for 2-6 am.

 

[tall_guy1]

Well, if they can advertise hunting supplies... (let's start that conversation up again and derail this thread LOL)

 

[Kelly A]

Well, if they can advertise hunting supplies... (let's start that conversation up again and derail this thread LOL)

No, your topic is boring compared with pot sales..

 

[CTListener]

Even the sale of hard liquor is controlled by Washington state government, requiring it to be purchased at a state run retail store. One of the few states that does this. But didn't they legalize recreational marijuana? Go figure.

One of those states is now visible from my front door here in eastern Vermont -- New Hampshire. And chances of that state ever legalizing marijuana seem beyond slim. But since most NH residents live within easy driving distance of Vermont, Massachusetts or both, getting pot will be no problem by year's end. Now ... does New Hampshire give in and legalize, or realize a potential windfall by having its troopers check every vehicle they pull over for any reason for marijuana and fine the offenders heavily?

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

CBD also typically doesn't contain any significant amount of THC. Of course, I don’t know how you manufacture CBD oil without growing some of the illegal herb. So, that might not make advertising it legal.

Advertising CBD is legal. A station im on in WY has advertised it plenty.. and the owner is a smart cookie, he wouldnt do it if it wasnt

 

[boombox4]

Well, that pretty much leaves most stores not being able to sell it. As Kelly mentioned above it only benefits the big box stores. I'm not sure why WA state has such a hard line against alcohol. It's viewed as a fairly liberal state, except for maybe the Tri-Cities where you are.

I've seen liquor sales at relatively moderate sized drugstores, so it's not just limited to big box-type retailers. Mom and pop stores still can sell beer and wine, and many of them do. So it's not like WA is hurting for venues selling alcoholic beverages.

RE: Liberal state: WA is peculiar, in that it is a 'liberal' state with a definite puritanical streak.

For example, Seattle is like the Bible Belt when it comes to exotic dance venues and adult stores. In Seattle you can shoot up on the sidewalk, or commit all the property crimes you want, but if you want to open an exotic dance venue they'll slam the hammer down.

Meanwhile, drive south to Portland and it's exotic dance venues everywhere, comparatively.

Even adult movie houses were considered odious dens of iniquity in liberal WA state. A famous Supreme Court case was filed by a suburban city in the Seattle area because the city in question was afraid that a theatre showing adult films would turn the entire city into a horrid place of sin. Luckily for the delicate consciences of the populace, they were able to zone the offending venue completely out of existence. The city was saved.

An adult books store in another suburban city was harassed by city officials until it finally closed down. The casinos nearby were okay, though. You can gamble your entire savings away and put your family in debt, and that's okay, but adult books and vids are a no-no.

It's that way in a lot of jurisdictions in WA.