Drake Vs. Sklar

[TheBigA]

Returning to topic: you could Drake out of the market and make it work just about anywhere else. Can't say the same about Sklar.. his success was a NYC thing.

What we really haven't talked about is how much of his success was because of him, and how much was because of the talent at his station? It's sort of a chicken & egg thing.

Nobody was a WABC clone.

Correct. As I said earlier in this thread, even when Sklar was promoted to PD of ABC owned stations, he left the local decisions to the local PDs. He may have overseen their budgets, but the music decisions were locally made.

Maybe if Drake had been able to get his hands on WOR-AM, with its 50Kw signal, it might have been a more even playing field.

That was never going to happen because WOR-AM was consistently a top rated station, although the demos were older. Drake also ran into a format block in DC with classical music.

 

[michael hagerty]

Drake beat Sklar in this format

Where and when was that?

 

[davideduardo]

What we really haven't talked about is how much of his success was because of him, and how much was because of the talent at his station? It's sort of a chicken & egg thing.

I flew on several occasions to New York and to LA (back then, it was about 12 hours of flying with at least two stop-overs) and found both stations worth study.

Sklar's skill at WABC was hiring the right people to do the format. He inherited the structure from Mike Joseph, as he was not the original Top 40 PD. But he developed talent in a way that Drake did not employ to the same extent; Drake wanted "stationality" and a very much more common sound from all while Sklar wanted each showman to be like a Broadway theatrical: unique but uniformly entertaining.

The ambience of New York was different. It was hustle and a bit pushy. LA in the mid 60's was beaches and sun and much more laid back. So Drake and Jacobs (who came from the ultimate in laid back, Hawai'i) did a very different and much more "cool" format.

In a teen comparison, WABC was the class president and leader. KHJ was the kid who was fun and had the most friends.

 

[michael hagerty]

I flew on several occasions to New York and to LA (back then, it was about 12 hours of flying with at least two stop-overs) and found both stations worth study.

Sklar's skill at WABC was hiring the right people to do the format. He inherited the structure from Mike Joseph, as he was not the original Top 40 PD. But he developed talent in a way that Drake did not employ to the same extent; Drake wanted "stationality" and a very much more common sound from all while Sklar wanted each showman to be like a Broadway theatrical: unique but uniformly entertaining.

The ambience of New York was different. It was hustle and a bit pushy. LA in the mid 60's was beaches and sun and much more laid back. So Drake and Jacobs (who came from the ultimate in laid back, Hawai'i) did a very different and much more "cool" format.

In a teen comparison, WABC was the class president and leader. KHJ was the kid who was fun and had the most friends.

Great analogy.

 

[davideduardo]

Where and when was that?

Sklar only programmed WABC directly. He supervised other ABC stations. Drake and his team actually programmed, personally, each station... from KHJ all the way to KAKC.

 

[davideduardo]

But there were successful WABC clones with PAMS jingles, I think, in the early 1970's. I don't know how extended this presentation was, but it was a very worthy and likable competitor.

The package was available through PAMS, to anyone. There were no format restrictions to it whatsoever. I know because I bought several of the WABC-originated packages for my Top 40 stations in Ecuador.

As you say; maybe it had a more East Coast feel. But the two in the same market? KFRC won out on AM but in NYC, drake was on FM, AM was still the top dog.

And RKO required a different contemporary format, more gold based and with slower rotations, in NYC. This was, of course, a management feel that FM could not compete directly with AM stations.

Drake still had the top markets for AM. Drake beat Sklar in this format, and importantly had the best available or really good AM sticks in the top markets, except Chicago, no room at the AM Inn there with Super CFL and WLS, sorta similar to ABC NY. West coast ABC stns. were established talkers. To me the format presentation were equals in appeal.

The formats were very different in feel; I know as I spent thousands on travel from South America to listen to both WABC and KHJ in hotel rooms to get the feel and inspiration from each implementation. What I realized is that I had to avoid copying either station and take some of the ideas and adapt them to my main Top 40 station in two-mile-high Quito, Ecuador... where we got higher shares of audience than either KHJ or WABC.

In Chicago, there was no RKO station and none was owned by one of the fans of Drake. And Drake did not do Detroit, Philly, DC, St Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Dallas, Atlanta or many other big markets at the time. But he did Cincy, Memphis and Tulsa.

 

[BLA]

Where and when was that?

By my statement, Drake beat Sklar in this format, I don't mean a 'when and where' such as in a ratings book, but rather in national exposure and collective and cultural memory. More people, I think, recognize Drake and some remnants of the sound remain with stations today. Maybe the word 'beat' is a bit too contentious sounding.

 

[davideduardo]

By my statement, Drake beat Sklar in this format, I don't mean a 'when and where' such as in a ratings book, but rather in national exposure and collective and cultural memory. More people, I think, recognize Drake and some remnants of the sound remain with stations today. Maybe the word 'beat' is a bit too contentious sounding.

In any case, that's a rather unequal comparison. One was, principally, a consultant while the other was a single-station program director.

Better would be to compare Jacobs with Sklar.

 

[BLA]

The package was available through PAMS, to anyone. There were no format restrictions to it whatsoever. I know because I bought several of the WABC-originated packages for my Top 40 stations in Ecuador.

And RKO required a different contemporary format, more gold based and with slower rotations, in NYC. This was, of course, a management feel that FM could not compete directly with AM stations.

The formats were very different in feel; I know as I spent thousands on travel from South America to listen to both WABC and KHJ in hotel rooms to get the feel and inspiration from each implementation. What I realized is that I had to avoid copying either station and take some of the ideas and adapt them to my main Top 40 station in two-mile-high Quito, Ecuador... where we got higher shares of audience than either KHJ or WABC.

In Chicago, there was no RKO station and none was owned by one of the fans of Drake. And Drake did not do Detroit, Philly, DC, St Louis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Dallas, Atlanta or many other big markets at the time. But he did Cincy, Memphis and Tulsa.

Yes. Also, later there was RKO's WFYR(FM) in Chicago that came along in 1973 and was oldies gold like KHJ-FM/WROR.

 

[BLA]

I flew on several occasions to New York and to LA (back then, it was about 12 hours of flying with at least two stop-overs) and found both stations worth study.

Sklar's skill at WABC was hiring the right people to do the format. He inherited the structure from Mike Joseph, as he was not the original Top 40 PD. But he developed talent in a way that Drake did not employ to the same extent; Drake wanted "stationality" and a very much more common sound from all while Sklar wanted each showman to be like a Broadway theatrical: unique but uniformly entertaining.

The ambience of New York was different. It was hustle and a bit pushy. LA in the mid 60's was beaches and sun and much more laid back. So Drake and Jacobs (who came from the ultimate in laid back, Hawai'i) did a very different and much more "cool" format.

In a teen comparison, WABC was the class president and leader. KHJ was the kid who was fun and had the most friends.

Analysis so well put and thank you!!

 

[BLA]

In any case, that's a rather unequal comparison. One was, principally, a consultant while the other was a single-station program director.

Better would be to compare Jacobs with Sklar.

O.K., very good. I went a bit off topic and just compared the sound of each format as it appealed to me but without an attempt at analysis of the formats or of the real topic, Sklar, Drake!

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

I just got Rick Sklar's book, "Rocking America", in the kindle version at Amazon. As a west coast person, especially one who lived in L.A. for over 60 years, I knew about Bill Drake and Paul Drew. But my knowledge of east coast radio has some gaps in it. When I used to DX with my little transistor radio, I never could get farther east than KOMA in Oklahoma City, or border stations in Del Rio, Texas. My family never went to the east coast for vacations, so I never got to hear WABC. Looking forward to reading this book.

 

[Weiserguy]

I just got Rick Sklar's book, "Rocking America", in the kindle version at Amazon. As a west coast person, especially one who lived in L.A. for over 60 years, I knew about Bill Drake and Paul Drew. But my knowledge of east coast radio has some gaps in it. When I used to DX with my little transistor radio, I never could get farther east than KOMA in Oklahoma City, or border stations in Del Rio, Texas. My family never went to the east coast for vacations, so I never got to hear WABC. Looking forward to reading this book.

It's a great book, Daryl Lynn. A little self-serving, though name an autobiography that isn't.

He had to overcome the remnants of the payola scandal, and the handcuffs on him from the needs of the network, and he figured out ways to finesse both. He had some truly great talent, but had to deal with guys too insecure or too-big-for-their-britches, and did, with both. The saddest part of the Rick Sklar saga is when and how he died, which you won't find in his book. (Medical malpractice, on the operating table at New York Hospital, for an incredibly routine and prosaic runner's injury.)

 

[davideduardo]

It's a great book, Daryl Lynn. A little self-serving, though name an autobiography that isn't.

He had to overcome the remnants of the payola scandal, and the handcuffs on him from the needs of the network, and he figured out ways to finesse both. He had some truly great talent, but had to deal with guys too insecure or too-big-for-their-britches, and did, with both. The saddest part of the Rick Sklar saga is when and how he died, which you won't find in his book. (Medical malpractice, on the operating table at New York Hospital, for an incredibly routine and prosaic runner's injury.)

I think the biggest skill and talent of Rick was the way he made all the talent sound like individuals yet, still, part of the station. I always thought that New York was a city or strong personalities, going back to Boss Tweed; Sklar made every jock sound strong and unique without losing the "feel" of the station whose jingles started out with the first notes of "Manhattan" and recalls the words of "We'll have Manhattan...The Bronx and Staten Island, too".

But it was "Seventy-seven... WABC" instead. It was pure New York.

What Sklar got, much more than radio, was New York City.

 

[TheBigA]

What Sklar got, much more than radio, was New York City.

Which may be why he wasn't able to replicate it anywhere else.

 

[Yabadabado1]

I can go way back to'81 and while driving around dropping off T&Rs to various stations, and listening to what is now WQRK in Canton [or it could have even been the AM side] and pretty sure they were running a Drake-Chenault format at that time. Distinctly remember that it sounded nothing like any of the stations in the area at that time. I used to know a former classmate that was a secretary there and she clued me in on them looking for new people. I can remember them playing "Sausalito Summer Night" a LOT and probably only one other station in the area played it that I can recall off hand [WGCL ?] Wish I could remember a little more about the station, never heard back from them so just moved on.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

To learn more about the WABC sound, I found an aircheck from 1974 from "Cousin Brucie", Bruce Morrow. He writes the introduction to "Rocking America."
I read on You Tube that WABC had some of the shortest TSL - time spent listening- in the ratings. They had about 10 minutes average. In 1975, they started playing more music, perhaps 3 songs in a row, then they had commercial breaks like 3 times an hour.

On this air check, Cousin Brucie sounds a little bit like Real Don Steele. He is good at "hitting the post." But, this interested me. Unlike RDS, Brucie uses a lot of reverb in the studio. Except for Wolfman, I never heard a jock use reverb like that on west coast stations.

The commercials are long ( NOT Rick Sklar's fault), and they are cornball in a way that doesn't jibe with the sophisticated sound of the station. Right at the beginning, there's an ad for "Schickhouse Meats, coldcuts, which has a jingle with a Tin Pan Alley type piano introduction like the beginning of a Broadway show song).

I don't think that Sklar had anything to do with producing the ads. He did not write the commercials - not even the one to send kids to summer camp, which begins, "hello muddah, hello fadduh". But they do typify the sound. Much different than So Cal.
I think Brucie is great, and I can see how he and Sklar would have been good friends. I'm going to read some more of the book.

 

[Weiserguy]

Which may be why he wasn't able to replicate it anywhere else.

That could be, but it doesn't seem he had much interest in replicating WABC anywhere else. Yes, he did get sent out to San Francisco in 1973 to consult on cloning a version for KSFX. But even that wasn't a true clone of the mother ship. Jingles, formatics, etc. were similar, but the personalities weren't and the approach leaned more adult. So it flailed and failed.

The only other time he tried to recreate WABC was with Superradio in 1982, and that was killed off before launch by the lack of affiliates signed up.

 

[davideduardo]

A reminder: The Ron Jacobs book on KHJ "Inside Boss Radio" is on this page: BOOKSHELF: Programming - Personalities - Techniques

 

[Weiserguy]

To learn more about the WABC sound, I found an aircheck from 1974 from "Cousin Brucie", Bruce Morrow. He writes the introduction to "Rocking America."
I read on You Tube that WABC had some of the shortest TSL - time spent listening- in the ratings. They had about 10 minutes average. In 1975, they started playing more music, perhaps 3 songs in a row, then they had commercial breaks like 3 times an hour.

On this air check, Cousin Brucie sounds a little bit like Real Don Steele. He is good at "hitting the post." But, this interested me. Unlike RDS, Brucie uses a lot of reverb in the studio. Except for Wolfman, I never heard a jock use reverb like that on west coast stations.

The commercials are long ( NOT Rick Sklar's fault), and they are cornball in a way that doesn't jibe with the sophisticated sound of the station. Right at the beginning, there's an ad for "Schickhouse Meats, coldcuts, which has a jingle with a Tin Pan Alley type piano introduction like the beginning of a Broadway show song).

I don't think that Sklar had anything to do with producing the ads. He did not write the commercials - not even the one to send kids to summer camp, which begins, "hello muddah, hello fadduh". But they do typify the sound. Much different than So Cal.
I think Brucie is great, and I can see how he and Sklar would have been good friends. I'm going to read some more of the book.

I met Bruce one night, up at WCBS-FM, while visiting with a friend who used to have the shift immediately following his. Bruce is a genuinely nice person. I brought my fiancé (at the time, my wife now) with me, since she'd never seen a radio station. Bruce was super nice with her, not just in a cursory way to be polite. As a longtime radio geek, I knew his audience loved him, but I saw one-on-one just why they do.

Bruce did write the intro to Sklar's book, but he also wrote an autobiography of his own, also in the eighties. If you can find it in a library, it's worth your time. I don't know if it's still in print, though there's always Amazon to try.

The reverb was not under the control of the jock, the plate reverb unit was out at the transmitter in Lodi (NJ), wired into the audio chain. Except during news blocks and special breaking news coverage, the reverb was always on. Interestingly, back in the mid '60s, some of the programming used to be simulcast on WABC-FM, and they got a feed from the board before the reverb. It was a much cleaner sound, befitting the better fidelity of an FM signal, but it was lacking that distinctive sound.

The Schickhaus Meats campaign was always a little schlocky, but it was just one ad campaign that ran on the station. (If you want to hear what great talent can do with mediocre ad copy, find an aircheck of Dan Ingram doing a live read of a Schickhaus spot. He frequently ended them with the line, "Schickhaus, the most carefully pronounced meats in the world.") Many ads were quite sophisticated. As one example, go onto Youtube and search for Shaeffer Beer's radio spots from the '60s or '70s. Same basic music, same tag line, but recorded by some of the greats from the jazz world: Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Tony Bennett, as well as pop artists of the day. These ads also aired on WABC.

Yes, they had a low TSL, but they also had a phenomenal cume. In some ratings books, their cume was at or near 5 million listeners! I defy you to find any station, anywhere in this continent, with anything approaching that level of listeners.