Drew Hayes Returning to KABC As PD

[pjc1961]

From AllAccess: http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/a...t-drew-hayes-to-be-named-pd-at-kabc-los-angel
From TimeOutChicago.com's Robert Feder: http://timeoutchicago.com/arts-cult...program-boss-hayes-headed-back-to-kabc-in-l-a

Drew had previously been PD at KABC from 1998-2000. He has most recently been the Operations Director at sister station WLS-AM Chicago. He's also been at other Chicagoland stations.

The KABC PD chair had been vacant since Jack Silver departed in June 2012.

 

[SimiRadioListener26]

Just how important is a programming director to KABC's operations at this point if the station can go on six months without one?

 

[michael hagerty]

Someone's been doing the work, they just didn't have the title.

KHJ, when it was still a big deal (1972-1973) ran five months with Bill Watson as an interim PD, between Ted Atkins and Paul Drew.

To me, the most interesting thing is what Drew's done besides KABC and WLS...

 

[Thomps2525]

Are you, by any chance, referring to Drew's tenure at FM talk station WCKG, the station that miked talk with classic rock and had one of the dumbest slogans in radio history ("The PaCKaGe")?

 

[michael hagerty]

Are you, by any chance, referring to Drew's tenure at FM talk station WCKG, the station that miked talk with classic rock and had one of the dumbest slogans in radio history ("The PaCKaGe")?

No, Steve, I'm referring to WSCR and ESPN.

 

[Thomps2525]

Two sports stations. Ah, now I get it. You're thinking that Drew may turn KABC into a sports station. I imagine KABC would love to have a chunk of KLAC's 0.4% audience share.

 

[michael hagerty]

Two sports stations. Ah, now I get it. You're thinking that Drew may turn KABC into a sports station. I imagine KABC would love to have a chunk of KLAC's 0.4% audience share.

You're forgetting that Cumulus and CBS have to find a place to clear CBS Radio Sports.

And that 6+ numbers are meaningless.

And KSPN.

 

[Thomps2525]

Oh, you're just assuming that seven- and eight-year-olds are listening to Radio Disney and not to KLAC and KSPN.

 

[michael hagerty]

Oh, you're just assuming that seven- and eight-year-olds are listening to Radio Disney and not to KLAC and KSPN.

Steve, the only thing I assume (because Don Barrett thought highly enough of you to feature your work) is that you have a basic understanding of the business of radio.

Just in case I'm wrong about that: Ad agencies don't buy 6+ numbers. In sports radio, they buy 25-54 men. David Eduardo can (and I hope will) give us a realistic view of how KSPN and KLAC do in that demo and the rough sketch of their billings.

 

[davideduardo]

Two sports stations. Ah, now I get it. You're thinking that Drew may turn KABC into a sports station. I imagine KABC would love to have a chunk of KLAC's 0.4% audience share.

The key to understanding sports stations is in understanding that they generally get very low 6+ or 12+ numbers.

During the many years when WFAN was the highest billing station in New York, it seldom was above 14th or 15th in 12+.

Sports delivers adult males very efficiently. It is a foreground format, and creates a very fine environment for male targeting advertisers. In addition, sports stations take money that is part of sports marketing budgets... something music or news or political talk stations can not get.

KLAC has been around a 2.0 to 2.2 share in 25-54 males, and KSPN around a 2.2 to 2.4 share in the same demo in the "middle 9 months" of 2012. Like many sports stations, the numbers bounce according to the performance of local teams, which sport is in season and play by play, if any.

For less-than-perfect signal AMs, they bill quite nicely. KLAC did about $10 million in 2011, and KSPN nearly $20 million. Of course, play by play is expensive and the overall operation ain't cheap... but sports is quite profitable, even in a poor sports market like LA.

 

[Ultimajock]

...Screw Hayes' last stretch at KABC did a lot to cripple the station. Now I guess he's coming back to finish the job...

 

[radio-darn]

Just how important is a programming director to KABC's operations at this point if the station can go on six months without one?

In today's world of radio, PD's are very important because someone has to schedule vacation relief and ensure that the latest programming missives from corporate are posted for all to see.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

...Screw Hayes' last stretch at KABC did a lot to cripple the station. Now I guess he's coming back to finish the job...

That is what I recall, which is why I don't understand the move. They must think that compared to what the station has become since he left, the Drew Hayes era seems like the glory days (which of course, they were not)

Again, going off memory so please do correct if not accurate, but I thought he made a lot of enemies in the building, particularly among the airstaff as he actively micromanaged their shows. I think Larry Elder particularly chafed at Drew's intrusions - and that was back when he actually had some ratings.

 

[michael hagerty]

...Screw Hayes' last stretch at KABC did a lot to cripple the station. Now I guess he's coming back to finish the job...

That is what I recall, which is why I don't understand the move. They must think that compared to what the station has become since he left, the Drew Hayes era seems like the glory days (which of course, they were not)

Again, going off memory so please do correct if not accurate, but I thought he made a lot of enemies in the building, particularly among the airstaff as he actively micromanaged their shows. I think Larry Elder particularly chafed at Drew's intrusions - and that was back when he actually had some ratings.

You're both assuming Drew's being sent back to run KABC as a talk station.

 

[westfield60]

You're both assuming Drew's being sent back to run KABC as a talk station.

Somehow I just don't seem them pulling the plug on talk radio KABC. It has barely registered a blip on the ratings for well over a decade and yet no one in management over the years felt the need to drastically change that station from the tired old dinosaurs still fighting whitewater into something more appealing to Angelinos. So I don't think the latest change in a long list of PD's will do anything significant. Look when Jack Silver was anointed PD and he made bold predictions. All he did was bring Larry Elder back and nothing has changed since.

Sometimes you have to take the KLSX route and fire everyone over there who have had a free ride for over a decade for not performing. If KABC was run as a business it would have ceased operations years ago.

 

[michael hagerty]

You're both assuming Drew's being sent back to run KABC as a talk station.

Somehow I just don't seem them pulling the plug on talk radio KABC. It has barely registered a blip on the ratings for well over a decade and yet no one in management over the years felt the need to drastically change that station from the tired old dinosaurs still fighting whitewater into something more appealing to Angelinos. So I don't think the latest change in a long list of PD's will do anything significant. Look when Jack Silver was anointed PD and he made bold predictions. All he did was bring Larry Elder back and nothing has changed since.

Sometimes you have to take the KLSX route and fire everyone over there who have had a free ride for over a decade for not performing. If KABC was run as a business it would have ceased operations years ago.

You've just made the argument. There is no business case to be made for keeping KABC talk. If you took KFI's programming and moved it wholesale to 790 and everyone who listens to KFI tried to listen to it on KABC, the most you'd get is a 2 share (6+) because of signal limitations.

And that's not gonna happen.

This isn't about Drew Hayes in terms of the traditional idea of a PD coming in to implement his own changes (an outdated idea for a few years now, anyway in most cases).

Here's what you need to know:

KABC isn't viable as a talk station.

KABC is under new ownership (Cumulus has had the keys for about 15 months, so what Citadel, Disney, Cap Cities and the American Broadcasting Company did or didn't do with KABC is irrelevant).

Cumulus and CBS need to get CBS Sports Radio on a signal other than KCBS-FM HD2 so that they can make the national ad sales argument that X number of people in Los Angeles can actually hear it (and KABC's signal reaches far more people than the number that have HD recievers).
The revenue upside for even a middling sports station is way higher than for a nearly invisible talk station.

Drew's resume includes time as PD of a Sports station (WSCR) and with a Sports radio network (ESPN).

I could be wrong. Cumulus could be re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. But that would be making about three big mistakes at once.

 

[Thomps2525]

When the Titanic sunk, the news was reported on KNX but not on KABC, which was running a syndicated real-estate program, or KFWB, which was running an infomercial.

I think most of us assume that the only formats that will work on AM radio in 2013 are talk, sports, or Spanish-language. KMPC's circa-1980 "Unforgettables" format, which featured MOR and AC hits from 1948 to the mid-'70s, might work on KABC.....mightn't it? Most adult-standards stations, past and present, play hundreds of album versions of popular songs, but KMPC played only the hit singles. No Los Angeles station has tried that in the last three decades. KABC could attract a big audience (albeit not in those coveted 18-24 and 25-39 demos) by playing MOR/AC hits from 1950-1980. Not that I expect Drew to listen to me.....

 

[davideduardo]

I think most of us assume that the only formats that will work on AM radio in 2013 are talk, sports, or Spanish-language.

And in Spanish, the only formats that work are talk and sports. Hispanics are, as a group, much younger than the non-Hispanic white population, and use AM even less than the general market does... which is why Mexico's congress declared the AM band to no longer be commercially viable.

KMPC's circa-1980 "Unforgettables" format, which featured MOR and AC hits from 1948 to the mid-'70s, might work on KABC.....mightn't it?

No. The demos would be 65+ and even 75+ and unsalable to anyone.

KABC could attract a big audience (albeit not in those coveted 18-24 and 25-39 demos) by playing MOR/AC hits from 1950-1980.

18-24 is not a coveted demo. It is a component of 18-34, which is a fairly desirable demo but the major broad sales demos are 18-49 (just like TV) and 25-54.

 

[michael hagerty]

I think most of us assume that the only formats that will work on AM radio in 2013 are talk, sports, or Spanish-language. KMPC's circa-1980 "Unforgettables" format, which featured MOR and AC hits from 1948 to the mid-'70s, might work on KABC.....mightn't it? Most adult-standards stations, past and present, play hundreds of album versions of popular songs, but KMPC played only the hit singles. No Los Angeles station has tried that in the last three decades. KABC could attract a big audience (albeit not in those coveted 18-24 and 25-39 demos) by playing MOR/AC hits from 1950-1980. Not that I expect Drew to listen to me.....

Well, lessee here....

MOR hits from 1948 to the mid 70s, so let's say 1975.

And let's be charitable and say that those songs appealed to 30 year olds at the time they were new (40 is more likely). So we're talking birth dates between 1918 and 1945....meaning that your audience is somewhere between 68 and 95. (78 and 105 if we use 40).

KMPC abandoned ship on that format 21 years ago because too much of the audience was over 65 and it was too hard to sell. KFRC, San Francisco ditched Magic 61 for oldies a year later for the same reason.

Steve, I was brought into an MOR station in 1977 to convert the music to Adult Contemporary. We were very successful. I was playing Steely Dan and Fleetwood Mac to an audience where the center target was 37.

Those folks are now 75.

And I was getting them with Steely Dan and Fleetwood Mac.

And when we gave them the chance to hear them on FM, they took it.

So, you're suggesting that music on AM that appeals to an audience ranging from 13 years outside the key sales demo at the youngest (and the fact is that you're really talking about a bottom age of more like 80) to.....well, dead....might be better than a piece of a $30 million dollar ad market targeting 25-54 year old males on sports stations?

 

[Thomps2525]

Sirius XM's 1940s and 1950s Channels have a lot of younger listeners...and I don't think any of them are dead yet. Millions of younger people are enjoying the 1960s hits that came out before they were born. Older music will certainly attract an older audience but I think such a format would also bring in a lot of younger listeners who are sick of CHR and hip-hop and classic-rock. I'm of course speaking as a listener, not as a programmer. Such a format would be unique. Another sports format would be competing with KLAC and KSPN. I agree that advertisers would be drawn to another sports station but likely not to an MOR station. I guess I'm old-fashioned enough to want a station that "serves the public interest" instead of just trying to amass tons of profits, and I guess I'm naïve enough to think that there are people who might want to hear music more than sports.