Drew Hayes Returning to KABC As PD

[davideduardo]

Sirius XM's 1940s and 1950s Channels have a lot of younger listeners.

There is no proof of this, other than the fact that the statement defies logic.

Millions of younger people are enjoying the 1960s hits that came out before they were born.

Similarly, there is no evidence of this. Perhaps the music has some curiosity value to a few, but there is no proof that any more than a tiny segment care for that kind of music.

In fact, prior to doing considerable housecleaning, WDUV in Tampa was very much an MOR / Easy Listening station... and nearly all of its listening was 65+, and the station was way down at 14th in 25-54.

I think such a format would also bring in a lot of younger listeners who are sick of CHR and hip-hop and classic-rock.

Classic Rock is not a "younger" format. It, like oldies did, is aging out of the sales demos.

And, again, there is no evidence that younger listeners are tired of current music... whether it be country, CHR, urban, rhythmic, EDM, regional Mexican or whatever.

I guess I'm old-fashioned enough to want a station that "serves the public interest" instead of just trying to amass tons of profits, and I guess I'm naïve enough to think that there are people who might want to hear music more than sports.

What is the "public interest" in having a station that nearly nobody would listen to? A much greater service is done by taking those marginal AMs and using them to serve niche communities that otherwise have no voice.

And, to beat a dead horse, those under 50 grew up on FM. They don't and won't go to AM for music, as it is painful to listen to when broadcast by Ancient Modulation.

 

[michael hagerty]

Sirius XM's 1940s and 1950s Channels have a lot of younger listeners.

There is no proof of this, other than the fact that the statement defies logic.

Millions of younger people are enjoying the 1960s hits that came out before they were born.

Similarly, there is no evidence of this. Perhaps the music has some curiosity value to a few, but there is no proof that any more than a tiny segment care for that kind of music.

In fact, prior to doing considerable housecleaning, WDUV in Tampa was very much an MOR / Easy Listening station... and nearly all of its listening was 65+, and the station was way down at 14th in 25-54.

I think such a format would also bring in a lot of younger listeners who are sick of CHR and hip-hop and classic-rock.

Classic Rock is not a "younger" format. It, like oldies did, is aging out of the sales demos.

And, again, there is no evidence that younger listeners are tired of current music... whether it be country, CHR, urban, rhythmic, EDM, regional Mexican or whatever.

I guess I'm old-fashioned enough to want a station that "serves the public interest" instead of just trying to amass tons of profits, and I guess I'm naïve enough to think that there are people who might want to hear music more than sports.

What is the "public interest" in having a station that nearly nobody would listen to? A much greater service is done by taking those marginal AMs and using them to serve niche communities that otherwise have no voice.

And, to beat a dead horse, those under 50 grew up on FM. They don't and won't go to AM for music, as it is painful to listen to when broadcast by Ancient Modulation.

And many of us over 50. I turn 57 in two months. From the time I discovered FM stereo in 1969, I only listened to music on AM if there was some compelling circumstance (air talent, overall excellence, my being employed there). Absent that, I've been an FM listener. I'm sure many people 5 or 10 years older than me, who were among the first listeners to album rock on KPPC and KMET also never went back to AM for music.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

I agree with you; I'll be 61 in June, and although I listened to KHJ, KCBQ (monster signal into LA in the early 70s and a killer lineup including Rich 'Brother' Robbin, Gene Knight & Jo-Jo Kincaid) as well as SD's B-100 due to their stellar air talent lineups (as well as KGBS, which had Dave Hull, Emperor Hudosn and Ron Landry) into the early 70s, music on AM radio was already becoming less tolerable back then.

I heard Charlie & Harrigan on KLIF when I visted Dallas for the 1st time in 1975, and they were terrific, but AM radio

Thank goodness K-100 and KKDJ came along, and I rarely listened to music on AM radio anytime after 1977 or thereabouts.

David--would I be correct in assuming that no other country stations in the western half of the country have those problems which KKGO, KSON/SD & KFRG have as it relates to ethnic mix and potential for getting new listeners, including stations in the Pacific Northwest which do very well in country as well?

 

[westfield60]

You've just made the argument. There is no business case to be made for keeping KABC talk. If you took KFI's programming and moved it wholesale to 790 and everyone who listens to KFI tried to listen to it on KABC, the most you'd get is a 2 share (6+) because of signal limitations.

And that's not gonna happen.

This isn't about Drew Hayes in terms of the traditional idea of a PD coming in to implement his own changes (an outdated idea for a few years now, anyway in most cases).

Here's what you need to know:

KABC isn't viable as a talk station.

KABC is under new ownership (Cumulus has had the keys for about 15 months, so what Citadel, Disney, Cap Cities and the American Broadcasting Company did or didn't do with KABC is irrelevant).

Cumulus and CBS need to get CBS Sports Radio on a signal other than KCBS-FM HD2 so that they can make the national ad sales argument that X number of people in Los Angeles can actually hear it (and KABC's signal reaches far more people than the number that have HD recievers).
The revenue upside for even a middling sports station is way higher than for a nearly invisible talk station.

Drew's resume includes time as PD of a Sports station (WSCR) and with a Sports radio network (ESPN).

I could be wrong. Cumulus could be re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. But that would be making about three big mistakes at once.

How many sports stations can the LA market handle? Also KTLK now went sports in the late evenings and I don't know how that will work out. Maybe Robin did that to pre-empt KABC turning sports?

But regardless, what is the need to change format? particuarly if they have a low signal. I just don't see it. Dozens of stations on the LA dial register even lower than KABC and yet year after year they continue plodding along? Does anyone listen to KRLA locally? or KFWB? So sometimes I feel (as demonstrated by KABC's last ten years in exisistence) that PD or station owners are not necessarily looking to be number 1 or to overthrow the mighty KFI. As long as they are not in the red, they continue. I don't think every program director takes over with ambitions of turning their station into number one. Sometimes it is just make sure we don't sink.

And in looking down the AM dial it seems that most stations really could not care about the listeners and basically put on whatever crap they can purchase (for cheap) as long as they stay afloat or break even.

 

[michael hagerty]

You've just made the argument. There is no business case to be made for keeping KABC talk. If you took KFI's programming and moved it wholesale to 790 and everyone who listens to KFI tried to listen to it on KABC, the most you'd get is a 2 share (6+) because of signal limitations.

And that's not gonna happen.

This isn't about Drew Hayes in terms of the traditional idea of a PD coming in to implement his own changes (an outdated idea for a few years now, anyway in most cases).

Here's what you need to know:

KABC isn't viable as a talk station.

KABC is under new ownership (Cumulus has had the keys for about 15 months, so what Citadel, Disney, Cap Cities and the American Broadcasting Company did or didn't do with KABC is irrelevant).

Cumulus and CBS need to get CBS Sports Radio on a signal other than KCBS-FM HD2 so that they can make the national ad sales argument that X number of people in Los Angeles can actually hear it (and KABC's signal reaches far more people than the number that have HD recievers).
The revenue upside for even a middling sports station is way higher than for a nearly invisible talk station.

Drew's resume includes time as PD of a Sports station (WSCR) and with a Sports radio network (ESPN).

I could be wrong. Cumulus could be re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. But that would be making about three big mistakes at once.

How many sports stations can the LA market handle? Also KTLK now went sports in the late evenings and I don't know how that will work out. Maybe Robin did that to pre-empt KABC turning sports?

But regardless, what is the need to change format? particuarly if they have a low signal. I just don't see it. Dozens of stations on the LA dial register even lower than KABC and yet year after year they continue plodding along? Does anyone listen to KRLA locally? or KFWB? So sometimes I feel (as demonstrated by KABC's last ten years in exisistence) that PD or station owners are not necessarily looking to be number 1 or to overthrow the mighty KFI. As long as they are not in the red, they continue. I don't think every program director takes over with ambitions of turning their station into number one. Sometimes it is just make sure we don't sink.

And in looking down the AM dial it seems that most stations really could not care about the listeners and basically put on whatever crap they can purchase (for cheap) as long as they stay afloat or break even.

The question a group like Cumulus will ask is not "how many sports stations can L.A. handle?" but "how big a chunk of the money in sports advertising could we reasonably assume to get, what does having a home for CBS Radio Sports in Los Angeles do for the national revenue and does that add up to a better potential than KABC delivers as a talk station?"

The need to make money versus plodding along? It's different by owner, but Cumulus has some substantial debt after acquiring Citadel in 2011. It pays to have your stations generate the most revenue possible. And there's a partnership with CBS that they're sharing responsibility for.

It's not about being number one, not about beating KFI. KABC can't do that. But it can be on the receiving end when agencies are deciding where to place $30 million worth of spot buys a year.

 

[davideduardo]

David--would I be correct in assuming that no other country stations in the western half of the country have those problems which KKGO, KSON/SD & KFRG have as it relates to ethnic mix and potential for getting new listeners, including stations in the Pacific Northwest which do very well in country as well?

The markets like LA, Riverside, Fresno, San Antonio, Albuquerque are 40% to over 50% Hispanic.

At that level, a population that is more assimilated is enabling to a country station. But if the population is not highly assimilated, like LA and Riverside, it means that among that huge group there will be relatively few users of country.

San Diego is closer to 30% Hispanic, and due to being on the border, has a somewhat larger second generation and beyond component to the Hispanic part of the market. So country can do well, as is evidenced by KSON.

 

[Ultimajock]

...Screw Hayes' last stretch at KABC did a lot to cripple the station. Now I guess he's coming back to finish the job...

That is what I recall, which is why I don't understand the move. They must think that compared to what the station has become since he left, the Drew Hayes era seems like the glory days (which of course, they were not)

Again, going off memory so please do correct if not accurate, but I thought he made a lot of enemies in the building, particularly among the airstaff as he actively micromanaged their shows. I think Larry Elder particularly chafed at Drew's intrusions - and that was back when he actually had some ratings.

You're both assuming Drew's being sent back to run KABC as a talk station.

...no, I'm not. Any success he's been associated with -- which has been damned little in realistic terms -- is in spite of his presence, not because of it. Regardless of whatever format KABC is going to use, Screw Hayes can barely run a laundromat correctly, let alone a radio station...

 

[benale]

Steve,(LA Rewind, Thomps) I agree with you. Sports on 790? Yeah, I know they want a presence for their CBS Sports Network,but how much of the pie can be sliced? Two sports stations are enough for any market, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I am in the minority, but I always loved "nostalgia" formats. I loved KMPC in the 70's and I was in my 20's. KLAC had their "fabulous 570" and later "fabulous 690" for several years mixing in current artists doing standards along with Sinatra,Bennett, etc.

A lot of younger people enjoy music that was out before they were born. The Beatles,Rolling Stones, Doors, CCR, Classic Motown, Beach Boys, Four Seasons(Jersey Boys,anyone?..biggest grossing show ever on Broadway). Just rambling,but I would love to hear a really well done standards station or an older oldies station, but I know that ain't gonna happen.

Funny..before 1987 Sports radio didn't even exist. Weren't people fascinated by sports then? Here we are over 25 years later and now there are way too many all sports stations.

Of course, just my opinion. I know all sports, especially a national network is one of the easiest formats to do. Just how many people can there be for four or five all sports stations in one market? Guess it doesn't matter. It's all branding and having a presence in the particular market.

 

[radio-darn]

Older music will certainly attract an older audience but I think such a format would also bring in a lot of younger listeners who are sick of CHR and hip-hop and classic-rock.

Let's see now: a hit song from 1965 is 48 years old, two years shy of half-a-century. I was 15 in 1965 and NONE of my friends had any interest in music from 1917. Granted much of the music of the 1960's seems to have had a lot more staying power than music circa 1920, but it is still ancient, as are most of its fans. (Classic Rock - "Music For Old White Guys And The Women Who Love Them").

 

[Thomps2525]

Granted, I was just a little kid in 1917, and the music of the late 1920s was much better, but how could anyone not like Pray For Sunshine by Al Jolson, Joan Of Arc by Henry Burr, and There's A Long Long Trail A-Winding by John McCormack?

At least one person, Mister benale, agrees with me that Los Angeles can not really support a fourth sports station. On the other hand, I agree with Mister Eduardo and Mister hagerty when they say that the 18-to-49-year-old male listeners that such a station would attract would bring in those almighty advertising dollars. But LARadio.com founder Don Barrett had this to say regarding the most recent Arbitrons: "Sports radio has numbers that should be a real concern to all involved. KSPN dropped from 1.9 to 1.4 and 23rd place. KLAC seems to be in free fall with a 0.4, which ties with KFWB and Salem's KRLA. And the Angels' Sports station, KLAA, almost failed to be listed, coming in with a 0.1."

 

[michael hagerty]

At least one person, Mister benale, agrees with me that Los Angeles can not really support a fourth sports station. On the other hand, I agree with Mister Eduardo and Mister hagerty when they say that the 18-to-49-year-old male listeners that such a station would attract would bring in those almighty advertising dollars. But LARadio.com founder Don Barrett had this to say regarding the most recent Arbitrons: "Sports radio has numbers that should be a real concern to all involved. KSPN dropped from 1.9 to 1.4 and 23rd place. KLAC seems to be in free fall with a 0.4, which ties with KFWB and Salem's KRLA. And the Angels' Sports station, KLAA, almost failed to be listed, coming in with a 0.1."

Don Barrett, whom I hold in extremely high regard, neglects to mention four things in that:

1) The Lakers suck this year.

2) It's the Holiday book, in which talk formats (including sports) tend not to do well.

3) The numbers printed are 6+ and meaningless.

4) He's not permitted to publish the numbers that count (25-54).

Is there room for a fourth sports station in L.A.? Maybe not. But that doesn't mean the next one in will be the one that doesn't survive. Odds are, though, with a $30 million plus pie, the players can all eat.

Cumulus can make money on two levels...locally, with KABC, and nationally with CBS Radio Sports. Clearance in Los Angeles will make the network spots considerably more valuable.

 

[Thomps2525]

Mister hagerty, I have a question but I don't have the answer. Maybe you do. Has there ever been an instance where a network-owned station (CBS, ABC, NBC, Mutual, Fox, Salem, et al) has carried, either part-time or full-time, programming from a competing network? Legally, would there be any reason that KABC couldn't carry CBS Sports Radio?

 

[michael hagerty]

Mister hagerty, I have a question but I don't have the answer. Maybe you do. Has there ever been an instance where a network-owned station (CBS, ABC, NBC, Mutual, Fox, Salem, et al) has carried, either part-time or full-time, programming from a competing network? Legally, would there be any reason that KABC couldn't carry CBS Sports Radio?

Steve: I don't remember one, but this is a special case in that CBS Sports Radio is a partnership between CBS and Cumulus. It carries the CBS brand, but Cumulus is responsible for clearances, sales and affiliate relations. As a result, there is nothing to stop (and much to encourage) Cumulus clearing the network on its stations.

 

[Ultimajock]

Mister hagerty, I have a question but I don't have the answer. Maybe you do. Has there ever been an instance where a network-owned station (CBS, ABC, NBC, Mutual, Fox, Salem, et al) has carried, either part-time or full-time, programming from a competing network? Legally, would there be any reason that KABC couldn't carry CBS Sports Radio?

Steve: I don't remember one, but this is a special case in that CBS Sports Radio is a partnership between CBS and Cumulus. It carries the CBS brand, but Cumulus is responsible for clearances, sales and affiliate relations. As a result, there is nothing to stop (and much to encourage) Cumulus clearing the network on its stations.

...wasn't KMIK/1580 Tempe running ABC-co-owned Radio Disney while the station was owned by CBS?...

 

[michael hagerty]

Mister hagerty, I have a question but I don't have the answer. Maybe you do. Has there ever been an instance where a network-owned station (CBS, ABC, NBC, Mutual, Fox, Salem, et al) has carried, either part-time or full-time, programming from a competing network? Legally, would there be any reason that KABC couldn't carry CBS Sports Radio?

Steve: I don't remember one, but this is a special case in that CBS Sports Radio is a partnership between CBS and Cumulus. It carries the CBS brand, but Cumulus is responsible for clearances, sales and affiliate relations. As a result, there is nothing to stop (and much to encourage) Cumulus clearing the network on its stations.

...wasn't KMIK/1580 Tempe running ABC-co-owned Radio Disney while the station was owned by CBS?...

CBS never owned KMIK. Buck Owens sold it to ABC/Disney in 1997. They've had it since (now as The Walt Disney Company).