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DSPX AGC before Optimod
- Thread starter Rafael
- Start date
R
RadioDoc
Guest
> Hi All
>
> Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X unit
> purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
>
> Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> benefits?
>
> Many Thanks for your time...
>
If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run that alone without the 8400!
I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn off any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow attack/release times on the compressor.
You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400 barefoot.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
>
> Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X unit
> purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
>
> Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> benefits?
>
> Many Thanks for your time...
>
If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run that alone without the 8400!
I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn off any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow attack/release times on the compressor.
You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400 barefoot.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
>>
> If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run that
> alone without the 8400!
>
> I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC
> however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn off
> any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow
> attack/release times on the compressor.
>
> You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400
> barefoot.
Or buy the Arianne matrix AGC...
> If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run that
> alone without the 8400!
>
> I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC
> however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn off
> any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow
> attack/release times on the compressor.
>
> You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400
> barefoot.
Or buy the Arianne matrix AGC...
J
Jimprewitt1954
Guest
> Hi All
>
> Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X unit
> purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
>
> Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> benefits?
>
> Many Thanks for your time...
I know A friend of mine who doesn't have much confidence in today's digital boxes to maintain really good agc control. Those digital boxes just don't seem to hold up the levels like the old Analog ones did.
I definately would recommend putting something in front of your main processor. IE: Aphex compellor/Dominator. There are more and more digital processors/pre-amps that emulate the warm sound of TUBE. There's even a company now making a Compressor/limiter that sounds just like the old vintage stuff from the 60's and 70's. It's expensive but man, you can make it sound so warm without any level control problems. You can compress and agressively limit without it sounding fatiguing!
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Lead, Follow or Get Out Of The Way!</P>
>
> Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X unit
> purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
>
> Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> benefits?
>
> Many Thanks for your time...
I know A friend of mine who doesn't have much confidence in today's digital boxes to maintain really good agc control. Those digital boxes just don't seem to hold up the levels like the old Analog ones did.
I definately would recommend putting something in front of your main processor. IE: Aphex compellor/Dominator. There are more and more digital processors/pre-amps that emulate the warm sound of TUBE. There's even a company now making a Compressor/limiter that sounds just like the old vintage stuff from the 60's and 70's. It's expensive but man, you can make it sound so warm without any level control problems. You can compress and agressively limit without it sounding fatiguing!
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Lead, Follow or Get Out Of The Way!</P>
C
CW
Guest
> Hi All
>
> Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X unit
> purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
>
> Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> benefits?
>
> Many Thanks for your time...
>
Not No but H*LL NO
The only place you need a REAL SOFT AGC would be before a STL and the Optimod is at the xmtr; just to protect the STL and not to do any AGC on LOW levels; just HOT ones!.....otherwise, let the Optimod do what it is DESIGNED to do...to be THE Processor.....dont put ANYTHING ahead of it..otherwise the two AGCs will be pumping against each other.
Why spend $10,000+ on an 8400 with its massive DSP horsepower and then throw something else in front of it??? Seems like a waste of money.
>
> Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X unit
> purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
>
> Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> benefits?
>
> Many Thanks for your time...
>
Not No but H*LL NO
The only place you need a REAL SOFT AGC would be before a STL and the Optimod is at the xmtr; just to protect the STL and not to do any AGC on LOW levels; just HOT ones!.....otherwise, let the Optimod do what it is DESIGNED to do...to be THE Processor.....dont put ANYTHING ahead of it..otherwise the two AGCs will be pumping against each other.Why spend $10,000+ on an 8400 with its massive DSP horsepower and then throw something else in front of it??? Seems like a waste of money.
> >>
> > If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run that
> > alone without the 8400!
> >
> > I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC
> > however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn off
> > any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow
> > attack/release times on the compressor.
> >
> > You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400
> > barefoot.
>
>
> Or buy the Arianne matrix AGC...
> Better yet, buy the new dsp-xtra with the new digital sequel ariane built in and 6 band limiter ,sell the dsp-x and the 8400....trust me on this one ,this extra is fierce...will soon be doing a shoot out with an Omnia 6 ex...
> > If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run that
> > alone without the 8400!
> >
> > I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC
> > however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn off
> > any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow
> > attack/release times on the compressor.
> >
> > You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400
> > barefoot.
>
>
> Or buy the Arianne matrix AGC...
> Better yet, buy the new dsp-xtra with the new digital sequel ariane built in and 6 band limiter ,sell the dsp-x and the 8400....trust me on this one ,this extra is fierce...will soon be doing a shoot out with an Omnia 6 ex...
> I know A friend of mine who doesn't have much confidence in
> today's digital boxes to maintain really good agc control.
> Those digital boxes just don't seem to hold up the levels
> like the old Analog ones did.
>
> I definately would recommend putting something in front of
> your main processor. IE: Aphex compellor/Dominator. There
> are more and more digital processors/pre-amps that emulate
> the warm sound of TUBE. There's even a company now making a
> Compressor/limiter that sounds just like the old vintage
> stuff from the 60's and 70's. It's expensive but man, you
> can make it sound so warm without any level control
> problems. You can compress and agressively limit without it
> sounding fatiguing!
Funny thing is we are doing exactly that. We have a tube compressor limiter before an Omnia with just a little light squeeze to get the right amount of tube-essence. A Symetrix single-band AGC sits before that to fend off the major lumps and changes in levels from operators that love to peg the needles.
The poster below is absolutely correct that the AGCs can fight against each other. But with a judicious ear and patience, you can resolve those issues and get the sound you are working for. It did take me 6 months to work out the pretty awful midrange build-up we were getting on some tracks.
> today's digital boxes to maintain really good agc control.
> Those digital boxes just don't seem to hold up the levels
> like the old Analog ones did.
>
> I definately would recommend putting something in front of
> your main processor. IE: Aphex compellor/Dominator. There
> are more and more digital processors/pre-amps that emulate
> the warm sound of TUBE. There's even a company now making a
> Compressor/limiter that sounds just like the old vintage
> stuff from the 60's and 70's. It's expensive but man, you
> can make it sound so warm without any level control
> problems. You can compress and agressively limit without it
> sounding fatiguing!
Funny thing is we are doing exactly that. We have a tube compressor limiter before an Omnia with just a little light squeeze to get the right amount of tube-essence. A Symetrix single-band AGC sits before that to fend off the major lumps and changes in levels from operators that love to peg the needles.
The poster below is absolutely correct that the AGCs can fight against each other. But with a judicious ear and patience, you can resolve those issues and get the sound you are working for. It did take me 6 months to work out the pretty awful midrange build-up we were getting on some tracks.
> > I know A friend of mine who doesn't have much confidence
> in
> > today's digital boxes to maintain really good agc control.
>
> > Those digital boxes just don't seem to hold up the levels
> > like the old Analog ones did.
> >
> > I definately would recommend putting something in front of
>
> > your main processor. IE: Aphex compellor/Dominator. There
> > are more and more digital processors/pre-amps that emulate
>
> > the warm sound of TUBE. There's even a company now making
> a
> > Compressor/limiter that sounds just like the old vintage
> > stuff from the 60's and 70's. It's expensive but man, you
> > can make it sound so warm without any level control
> > problems. You can compress and agressively limit without
> it
> > sounding fatiguing!
>
> Funny thing is we are doing exactly that. We have a tube
> compressor limiter before an Omnia with just a little light
> squeeze to get the right amount of tube-essence. A Symetrix
> single-band AGC sits before that to fend off the major lumps
> and changes in levels from operators that love to peg the
> needles.
>
> The poster below is absolutely correct that the AGCs can
> fight against each other. But with a judicious ear and
> patience, you can resolve those issues and get the sound you
> are working for. It did take me 6 months to work out the
> pretty awful midrange build-up we were getting on some
> tracks.
> ariane gets my nod for the best pre-processor ever..if you can swing the bucks,that is the way to go.lots of them being used in front of all the omnia's and orbans including the 8400 and even the 8500....Best bang for the buck still the DSP_Extra with built in ariane.at 5500..00 street price, it's a steal...loud,clear and brick wall AGC..
> in
> > today's digital boxes to maintain really good agc control.
>
> > Those digital boxes just don't seem to hold up the levels
> > like the old Analog ones did.
> >
> > I definately would recommend putting something in front of
>
> > your main processor. IE: Aphex compellor/Dominator. There
> > are more and more digital processors/pre-amps that emulate
>
> > the warm sound of TUBE. There's even a company now making
> a
> > Compressor/limiter that sounds just like the old vintage
> > stuff from the 60's and 70's. It's expensive but man, you
> > can make it sound so warm without any level control
> > problems. You can compress and agressively limit without
> it
> > sounding fatiguing!
>
> Funny thing is we are doing exactly that. We have a tube
> compressor limiter before an Omnia with just a little light
> squeeze to get the right amount of tube-essence. A Symetrix
> single-band AGC sits before that to fend off the major lumps
> and changes in levels from operators that love to peg the
> needles.
>
> The poster below is absolutely correct that the AGCs can
> fight against each other. But with a judicious ear and
> patience, you can resolve those issues and get the sound you
> are working for. It did take me 6 months to work out the
> pretty awful midrange build-up we were getting on some
> tracks.
> ariane gets my nod for the best pre-processor ever..if you can swing the bucks,that is the way to go.lots of them being used in front of all the omnia's and orbans including the 8400 and even the 8500....Best bang for the buck still the DSP_Extra with built in ariane.at 5500..00 street price, it's a steal...loud,clear and brick wall AGC..
> > > I know A friend of mine who doesn't have much confidence
>
> > in
> > > today's digital boxes to maintain really good agc
> control.
> >
> > > Those digital boxes just don't seem to hold up the
> levels
> > > like the old Analog ones did.
> > >
> > > I definately would recommend putting something in front
> of
> >
> > > your main processor. IE: Aphex compellor/Dominator.
> There
> > > are more and more digital processors/pre-amps that
> emulate
> >
> > > the warm sound of TUBE. There's even a company now
> making
> > a
> > > Compressor/limiter that sounds just like the old vintage
>
> > > stuff from the 60's and 70's. It's expensive but man,
> you
> > > can make it sound so warm without any level control
> > > problems. You can compress and agressively limit without
>
> > it
> > > sounding fatiguing!
> >
> > Funny thing is we are doing exactly that. We have a tube
> > compressor limiter before an Omnia with just a little
> light
> > squeeze to get the right amount of tube-essence. A
> Symetrix
> > single-band AGC sits before that to fend off the major
> lumps
> > and changes in levels from operators that love to peg the
> > needles.
> >
> > The poster below is absolutely correct that the AGCs can
> > fight against each other. But with a judicious ear and
> > patience, you can resolve those issues and get the sound
> you
> > are working for. It did take me 6 months to work out the
> > pretty awful midrange build-up we were getting on some
> > tracks.
> > ariane gets my nod for the best pre-processor ever..if you
> can swing the bucks,that is the way to go.lots of them being
> used in front of all the omnia's and orbans including the
> 8400 and even the 8500....Best bang for the buck still the
> DSP_Extra with built in ariane.at 5500..00 street price,
> it's a steal...loud,clear and brick wall AGC..
>
I'll put that on my list for the next tech upgrade when we put in a redundant transmission system!
>
> > in
> > > today's digital boxes to maintain really good agc
> control.
> >
> > > Those digital boxes just don't seem to hold up the
> levels
> > > like the old Analog ones did.
> > >
> > > I definately would recommend putting something in front
> of
> >
> > > your main processor. IE: Aphex compellor/Dominator.
> There
> > > are more and more digital processors/pre-amps that
> emulate
> >
> > > the warm sound of TUBE. There's even a company now
> making
> > a
> > > Compressor/limiter that sounds just like the old vintage
>
> > > stuff from the 60's and 70's. It's expensive but man,
> you
> > > can make it sound so warm without any level control
> > > problems. You can compress and agressively limit without
>
> > it
> > > sounding fatiguing!
> >
> > Funny thing is we are doing exactly that. We have a tube
> > compressor limiter before an Omnia with just a little
> light
> > squeeze to get the right amount of tube-essence. A
> Symetrix
> > single-band AGC sits before that to fend off the major
> lumps
> > and changes in levels from operators that love to peg the
> > needles.
> >
> > The poster below is absolutely correct that the AGCs can
> > fight against each other. But with a judicious ear and
> > patience, you can resolve those issues and get the sound
> you
> > are working for. It did take me 6 months to work out the
> > pretty awful midrange build-up we were getting on some
> > tracks.
> > ariane gets my nod for the best pre-processor ever..if you
> can swing the bucks,that is the way to go.lots of them being
> used in front of all the omnia's and orbans including the
> 8400 and even the 8500....Best bang for the buck still the
> DSP_Extra with built in ariane.at 5500..00 street price,
> it's a steal...loud,clear and brick wall AGC..
>
I'll put that on my list for the next tech upgrade when we put in a redundant transmission system!
L
listner2
Guest
If it's an omnia, then yes, put an AGC in front of it. If you use a compeller set the release times to fast. (You only can choose from slow and fast - it's a switch) The fast setting will keep your gain into the processor fairly consistant, but it is slow enough to avoid pumping.
If you are using a Orban, (8200 or 8400) the built-in AGC is pretty good, but set the release time to 7 or 8, and turn the gate OFF! The gate works ok, but if you go from something like a loud image liner into a song that starts soft like Garth Brooks - Much too young, which starts with a soft acoustic guitar, you'll never hear it unless you shut the gate off. (or your dj turns it up - yea right!) The gate threshold even at it's lowest setting (-44) on the 8200 is still too much.
Just my experience.
> > >>
> > > If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run that
> > > alone without the 8400!
> > >
> > > I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC
> > > however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn
> off
> > > any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow
> > > attack/release times on the compressor.
> > >
> > > You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400
> > > barefoot.
> >
> >
> > Or buy the Arianne matrix AGC...
> > Better yet, buy the new dsp-xtra with the new digital
> sequel ariane built in and 6 band limiter ,sell the dsp-x
> and the 8400....trust me on this one ,this extra is
> fierce...will soon be doing a shoot out with an Omnia 6
> ex...
>
If you are using a Orban, (8200 or 8400) the built-in AGC is pretty good, but set the release time to 7 or 8, and turn the gate OFF! The gate works ok, but if you go from something like a loud image liner into a song that starts soft like Garth Brooks - Much too young, which starts with a soft acoustic guitar, you'll never hear it unless you shut the gate off. (or your dj turns it up - yea right!) The gate threshold even at it's lowest setting (-44) on the 8200 is still too much.
Just my experience.
> > >>
> > > If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run that
> > > alone without the 8400!
> > >
> > > I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC
> > > however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn
> off
> > > any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow
> > > attack/release times on the compressor.
> > >
> > > You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400
> > > barefoot.
> >
> >
> > Or buy the Arianne matrix AGC...
> > Better yet, buy the new dsp-xtra with the new digital
> sequel ariane built in and 6 band limiter ,sell the dsp-x
> and the 8400....trust me on this one ,this extra is
> fierce...will soon be doing a shoot out with an Omnia 6
> ex...
>
J
Jimprewitt1954
Guest
> If it's an omnia, then yes, put an AGC in front of it. If
> you use a compeller set the release times to fast. (You only
> can choose from slow and fast - it's a switch) The fast
> setting will keep your gain into the processor fairly
> consistant, but it is slow enough to avoid pumping.
>
> If you are using a Orban, (8200 or 8400) the built-in AGC is
> pretty good, but set the release time to 7 or 8, and turn
> the gate OFF! The gate works ok, but if you go from
> something like a loud image liner into a song that starts
> soft like Garth Brooks - Much too young, which starts with a
> soft acoustic guitar, you'll never hear it unless you shut
> the gate off. (or your dj turns it up - yea right!) The gate
> threshold even at it's lowest setting (-44) on the 8200 is
> still too much.
>
> Just my experience.
> > > >>
> > > > If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run
> that
> > > > alone without the 8400!
> > > >
> > > > I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC
> > > > however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn
> > off
> > > > any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow
>
> > > > attack/release times on the compressor.
> > > >
> > > > You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400
> > > > barefoot.
> > >
> > >
> > > Or buy the Arianne matrix AGC...
> > > Better yet, buy the new dsp-xtra with the new digital
> > sequel ariane built in and 6 band limiter ,sell the dsp-x
>
> > and the 8400....trust me on this one ,this extra is
> > fierce...will soon be doing a shoot out with an Omnia 6
> > ex...
Good point about the gate. IMHO I think a lot of engineers use too much gate thus making it TOO quiet/flat and screwing up the levels. Turning the gate off gives you more smack without having to turn up clipping or agc. again in my opinion agressive clipping is worse than over compression. I do agree with an earlier poster that you should get what you want with these new expensive digital boxes, but processing is an ART and the best processing i've ever heard is where several boxes are used. Correctly tweaked there will be no trade off.
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Lead, follow or get out of the way...
And remember, the early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
</P>
> you use a compeller set the release times to fast. (You only
> can choose from slow and fast - it's a switch) The fast
> setting will keep your gain into the processor fairly
> consistant, but it is slow enough to avoid pumping.
>
> If you are using a Orban, (8200 or 8400) the built-in AGC is
> pretty good, but set the release time to 7 or 8, and turn
> the gate OFF! The gate works ok, but if you go from
> something like a loud image liner into a song that starts
> soft like Garth Brooks - Much too young, which starts with a
> soft acoustic guitar, you'll never hear it unless you shut
> the gate off. (or your dj turns it up - yea right!) The gate
> threshold even at it's lowest setting (-44) on the 8200 is
> still too much.
>
> Just my experience.
> > > >>
> > > > If it's a later DSP-X, you probably could just run
> that
> > > > alone without the 8400!
> > > >
> > > > I really wouldn't recommend using the DSP-X as an AGC
> > > > however. It's a bit of overkill. You'd need to turn
> > off
> > > > any limiting or clipping controls, and use fairly slow
>
> > > > attack/release times on the compressor.
> > > >
> > > > You're much better off using either the DSP-X or 8400
> > > > barefoot.
> > >
> > >
> > > Or buy the Arianne matrix AGC...
> > > Better yet, buy the new dsp-xtra with the new digital
> > sequel ariane built in and 6 band limiter ,sell the dsp-x
>
> > and the 8400....trust me on this one ,this extra is
> > fierce...will soon be doing a shoot out with an Omnia 6
> > ex...
Good point about the gate. IMHO I think a lot of engineers use too much gate thus making it TOO quiet/flat and screwing up the levels. Turning the gate off gives you more smack without having to turn up clipping or agc. again in my opinion agressive clipping is worse than over compression. I do agree with an earlier poster that you should get what you want with these new expensive digital boxes, but processing is an ART and the best processing i've ever heard is where several boxes are used. Correctly tweaked there will be no trade off.
> >
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Lead, follow or get out of the way...
And remember, the early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
</P>
> If it's an omnia, then yes, put an AGC in front of it. If
> you use a compeller set the release times to fast. (You only
> can choose from slow and fast - it's a switch) The fast
> setting will keep your gain into the processor fairly
> consistant, but it is slow enough to avoid pumping.
>
> If you are using a Orban, (8200 or 8400) the built-in AGC is
> pretty good, but set the release time to 7 or 8,
I too found an AGC in 8400 to be quite adequate. The AGC in Omnia does a good job as well, but it can benefit of some help (like Ariane for example).
> and turn
> the gate OFF! The gate works ok, but if you go from
> something like a loud image liner into a song that starts
> soft like Garth Brooks - Much too young, which starts with a
> soft acoustic guitar, you'll never hear it unless you shut
> the gate off. (or your dj turns it up - yea right!) The gate
> threshold even at it's lowest setting (-44) on the 8200 is
> still too much.
I've never tried turning the AGC Gate off, this is an interesting idea. If you have sloppy behind-the-board operators, that might work (though at the expense of breathing).
I did notice that Gate in analog processors (8100/XT2) is much more subtle and smoother than in digital processors where gates are "sharper" and therefore much more noticeable. They should "dissolve" it a bit... I also don't like what the Gate in multiband does in 8400 which is why I have it off there. In Omnia-6 OTOH you can't have it completely off as it effects the attack/release dynamics too much. IMO.
Regards,
Goran Tomas
> you use a compeller set the release times to fast. (You only
> can choose from slow and fast - it's a switch) The fast
> setting will keep your gain into the processor fairly
> consistant, but it is slow enough to avoid pumping.
>
> If you are using a Orban, (8200 or 8400) the built-in AGC is
> pretty good, but set the release time to 7 or 8,
I too found an AGC in 8400 to be quite adequate. The AGC in Omnia does a good job as well, but it can benefit of some help (like Ariane for example).
> and turn
> the gate OFF! The gate works ok, but if you go from
> something like a loud image liner into a song that starts
> soft like Garth Brooks - Much too young, which starts with a
> soft acoustic guitar, you'll never hear it unless you shut
> the gate off. (or your dj turns it up - yea right!) The gate
> threshold even at it's lowest setting (-44) on the 8200 is
> still too much.
I've never tried turning the AGC Gate off, this is an interesting idea. If you have sloppy behind-the-board operators, that might work (though at the expense of breathing).
I did notice that Gate in analog processors (8100/XT2) is much more subtle and smoother than in digital processors where gates are "sharper" and therefore much more noticeable. They should "dissolve" it a bit... I also don't like what the Gate in multiband does in 8400 which is why I have it off there. In Omnia-6 OTOH you can't have it completely off as it effects the attack/release dynamics too much. IMO.
Regards,
Goran Tomas
> Hi All
>
> Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X unit
> purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
>
> Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> benefits?
>
> Many Thanks for your time...
>
Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence my line of thought.
I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to sign a cheque for and Omnia!
>
> Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X unit
> purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
>
> Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> benefits?
>
> Many Thanks for your time...
>
Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence my line of thought.
I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to sign a cheque for and Omnia!
>
> Good point about the gate. IMHO I think a lot of engineers
> use too much gate thus making it TOO quiet/flat and screwing
> up the levels. Turning the gate off gives you more smack
> without having to turn up clipping or agc. again in my
> opinion agressive clipping is worse than over compression. I
> do agree with an earlier poster that you should get what you
> want with these new expensive digital boxes, but processing
> is an ART and the best processing i've ever heard is where
> several boxes are used. Correctly tweaked there will be no
> trade off.
> > >
> >
>
Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence my line of thought.
I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to sign a cheque for and Omnia!
> Good point about the gate. IMHO I think a lot of engineers
> use too much gate thus making it TOO quiet/flat and screwing
> up the levels. Turning the gate off gives you more smack
> without having to turn up clipping or agc. again in my
> opinion agressive clipping is worse than over compression. I
> do agree with an earlier poster that you should get what you
> want with these new expensive digital boxes, but processing
> is an ART and the best processing i've ever heard is where
> several boxes are used. Correctly tweaked there will be no
> trade off.
> > >
> >
>
Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence my line of thought.
I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to sign a cheque for and Omnia!
> >
> > Good point about the gate. IMHO I think a lot of engineers
>
> > use too much gate thus making it TOO quiet/flat and
> screwing
> > up the levels. Turning the gate off gives you more smack
> > without having to turn up clipping or agc. again in my
> > opinion agressive clipping is worse than over compression.
> I
> > do agree with an earlier poster that you should get what
> you
> > want with these new expensive digital boxes, but
> processing
> > is an ART and the best processing i've ever heard is where
>
> > several boxes are used. Correctly tweaked there will be no
>
> > trade off.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously
> I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to
> use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in
> the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence
> my line of thought.
>
> I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as
> a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm
> trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to
> sign a cheque for and Omnia!
>
Omnia's a great box. But you can pick up a Aphex Compellor to put in front of it instead of the DSPX. Unless you already have the DSPX on hand.
If you do a slight compression/expansion with a compellor and another slight squeeze with another box before the Optimod to build up gain and density and leave the AGC engaged in the Optimod, but backed way off, you can really make it ballsy. But you will have to tinker for hours to make sure that all these boxes are not fighting with each other.... which is not easy or quick. It all has to do with the attack/release times and compression ratios. Moreso attack and release. To high a compression ratio and you will get noticeable pumping. One thing you will have to listen out for is a severe mid-range density build-up, where the more open source material sounds fine, but when things start getting cranked up, it will sound way too thick and almost mono. You will definitely have to adjust the multi-band EQ's to even out and fix any issues with the spectral balance caused by the multiple layers of pre-Optimod compression. Crank the clipper up on the Optimod, too. You'll get "balls" at the cost of quality.
> > Good point about the gate. IMHO I think a lot of engineers
>
> > use too much gate thus making it TOO quiet/flat and
> screwing
> > up the levels. Turning the gate off gives you more smack
> > without having to turn up clipping or agc. again in my
> > opinion agressive clipping is worse than over compression.
> I
> > do agree with an earlier poster that you should get what
> you
> > want with these new expensive digital boxes, but
> processing
> > is an ART and the best processing i've ever heard is where
>
> > several boxes are used. Correctly tweaked there will be no
>
> > trade off.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously
> I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to
> use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in
> the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence
> my line of thought.
>
> I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as
> a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm
> trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to
> sign a cheque for and Omnia!
>
Omnia's a great box. But you can pick up a Aphex Compellor to put in front of it instead of the DSPX. Unless you already have the DSPX on hand.
If you do a slight compression/expansion with a compellor and another slight squeeze with another box before the Optimod to build up gain and density and leave the AGC engaged in the Optimod, but backed way off, you can really make it ballsy. But you will have to tinker for hours to make sure that all these boxes are not fighting with each other.... which is not easy or quick. It all has to do with the attack/release times and compression ratios. Moreso attack and release. To high a compression ratio and you will get noticeable pumping. One thing you will have to listen out for is a severe mid-range density build-up, where the more open source material sounds fine, but when things start getting cranked up, it will sound way too thick and almost mono. You will definitely have to adjust the multi-band EQ's to even out and fix any issues with the spectral balance caused by the multiple layers of pre-Optimod compression. Crank the clipper up on the Optimod, too. You'll get "balls" at the cost of quality.
C
cranium
Guest
Interesting earlier thread about using multiple boxes.
A friend of mine and I were tinkering with a Compellor in front of a Behringer multi-band digital processor and an old 8000...just to see what we could do.
Know what? It didn't have the sizzling highs that today's digital boxes have but it DID have amazing in your face realism, it had enough loudness to be competitive and sounded pretty, frankly.
Not that I would suggest that for a real airchain, of course.
A friend of mine and I were tinkering with a Compellor in front of a Behringer multi-band digital processor and an old 8000...just to see what we could do.
Know what? It didn't have the sizzling highs that today's digital boxes have but it DID have amazing in your face realism, it had enough loudness to be competitive and sounded pretty, frankly.
Not that I would suggest that for a real airchain, of course.
J
Jimprewitt1954
Guest
> > Hi All
> >
> > Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X
> unit
> > purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
> >
> > Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> > benefits?
> >
> > Many Thanks for your time...
> >
>
>
> Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously
> I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to
> use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in
> the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence
> my line of thought.
>
> I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as
> a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm
> trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to
> sign a cheque for and Omnia!
IMOHO...Always go with MULTI BAND. No Wideband!
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Lead, follow or get out of the way...
And remember, the early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
</P>
> >
> > Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X
> unit
> > purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
> >
> > Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> > benefits?
> >
> > Many Thanks for your time...
> >
>
>
> Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously
> I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to
> use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in
> the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence
> my line of thought.
>
> I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as
> a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm
> trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to
> sign a cheque for and Omnia!
IMOHO...Always go with MULTI BAND. No Wideband!
>
<P ID="signature">______________
Lead, follow or get out of the way...
And remember, the early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
</P>
C
CW
Guest
> > Hi All
> >
> > Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X
> unit
> > purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
> >
> > Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> > benefits?
> >
> > Many Thanks for your time...
> >
>
>
> Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously
> I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to
> use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in
> the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence
> my line of thought.
>
> I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as
> a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm
> trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to
> sign a cheque for and Omnia!
Ahhh just a thought but have you tried contacting Orban and asking them for help?? I know Bob Orban would be happy to look at your settings and come up with suggestions. You paid a lot of money for the 8400....are you running the latest software? Why spend more money on a Omnia (which in my opinion can not sound as good as an Optimod..and I have worked on both).
> >
> > Just wondered whether any of you guys have used a DSP-X
> unit
> > purely for AGC purposes before an Optimod 8400?
> >
> > Is it something you would recommend? Are there noticeable
> > benefits?
> >
> > Many Thanks for your time...
> >
>
>
> Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously
> I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to
> use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in
> the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence
> my line of thought.
>
> I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as
> a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm
> trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to
> sign a cheque for and Omnia!
Ahhh just a thought but have you tried contacting Orban and asking them for help?? I know Bob Orban would be happy to look at your settings and come up with suggestions. You paid a lot of money for the 8400....are you running the latest software? Why spend more money on a Omnia (which in my opinion can not sound as good as an Optimod..and I have worked on both).
> >
> Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously
> I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to
> use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in
> the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence
> my line of thought.
>
> I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as
> a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm
> trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to
> sign a cheque for and Omnia!
>
Of course I would like you to buy one of our products but if you want my honest opinion I would stick with the 8400. The two band AGC in that box is fine and I wouldn't waste my money adding another box.
I agree with the other posters that you should talk to bob. You probably wont be able to sound exactly like your competitor but do you really want to?
If your hell bent on another box and are looking for a box that is loud, clean and has the double award winning mother of AGC's, the Ariane, then take a look at the DSPXtra. Half the price of the competitors equivalent models and perhaps even less than half if you ask nicely
BTW. BW offer FULL money back if your not entirely satisfied so you have nothing to lose.
take a look at http://www.dsp-x.com/DSPX-RANGE-BROCHURE.pdf
Best regards
Scott
> Thanks guys for all your feedback on this one ... obviously
> I don't intend to run both boxes together. The plan is to
> use ONLY the wideband AGC in the DSP-X, disabling the AGC in
> the 8400. I've heard that the AGC in the 8400 is weak, hence
> my line of thought.
>
> I'm trying to get it the 8400 to sound as loud and ballsy as
> a competitors Omnia 6....without much success, hence why I'm
> trying everything. Might just need to persuade the GM to
> sign a cheque for and Omnia!
>
Of course I would like you to buy one of our products but if you want my honest opinion I would stick with the 8400. The two band AGC in that box is fine and I wouldn't waste my money adding another box.
I agree with the other posters that you should talk to bob. You probably wont be able to sound exactly like your competitor but do you really want to?
If your hell bent on another box and are looking for a box that is loud, clean and has the double award winning mother of AGC's, the Ariane, then take a look at the DSPXtra. Half the price of the competitors equivalent models and perhaps even less than half if you ask nicely
BTW. BW offer FULL money back if your not entirely satisfied so you have nothing to lose.
take a look at http://www.dsp-x.com/DSPX-RANGE-BROCHURE.pdf
Best regards
Scott
> Interesting earlier thread about using multiple boxes.
>
> A friend of mine and I were tinkering with a Compellor in
> front of a Behringer multi-band digital processor and an
> old 8000...just to see what we could do.
>
> Know what? It didn't have the sizzling highs that today's
> digital boxes have but it DID have amazing in your face
> realism, it had enough loudness to be competitive and
> sounded pretty, frankly.
>
> Not that I would suggest that for a real airchain, of
> course.
>
But if your a small rural station or a college station, you could sound competitive without having to try and budget a 10-15k Optimod!
<P ID="signature">______________
Lenks
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
>
> A friend of mine and I were tinkering with a Compellor in
> front of a Behringer multi-band digital processor and an
> old 8000...just to see what we could do.
>
> Know what? It didn't have the sizzling highs that today's
> digital boxes have but it DID have amazing in your face
> realism, it had enough loudness to be competitive and
> sounded pretty, frankly.
>
> Not that I would suggest that for a real airchain, of
> course.
>
But if your a small rural station or a college station, you could sound competitive without having to try and budget a 10-15k Optimod!
<P ID="signature">______________
Lenks
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
- Status