K
kenglish
Guest
Dropouts.....excessive power needs......too many buttons.
I'm keeping my old rotary-dial telephone!
I'm keeping my old rotary-dial telephone!
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DTV: Back To The Future
- Thread starter landtuna
- Start date
Cable systems do carry the digital sub channels. See Insight Cable Columbus Ohio market and many of the Time Warner systems in Ohio carries sub channels. Audio? Please 5.1 Dolby Digital is a huge improvment over stereo and mono.
I know that doing some basic research is bothersome and you have to used a computer. Oh wait using a PC is parasitic as well.
I highly doubt that analog reception was better. Right now WDEM CD broadcasting at 1.05 KW comes in better than the other LPTV analog stations in Columbus. With the exception of WCRX LP48.
The 2 to 4 second delay is a false argument. People who have digital cable and sat also have that problem. Plus complaining about 2 seconds lag time? Please. The virtural channels doesn't mean anything. Most DTV channels are on the UHF band. Plus from time to time I can pick up WHIZ DT and I'm about five miles outside the coverage area. I couldn't do that under their old analog transmitter.
I know that doing some basic research is bothersome and you have to used a computer. Oh wait using a PC is parasitic as well.
I highly doubt that analog reception was better. Right now WDEM CD broadcasting at 1.05 KW comes in better than the other LPTV analog stations in Columbus. With the exception of WCRX LP48.
The 2 to 4 second delay is a false argument. People who have digital cable and sat also have that problem. Plus complaining about 2 seconds lag time? Please. The virtural channels doesn't mean anything. Most DTV channels are on the UHF band. Plus from time to time I can pick up WHIZ DT and I'm about five miles outside the coverage area. I couldn't do that under their old analog transmitter.
willcail said:
Congratulations for Ohio. Unfortunately that isn't the case with the overwhelming majority of systems around the country.
willcail said:
Except that it isn't utilized very much.
willcail said:
So is an automobile. Moot point and outside area of discussion.
willcail said:
MY analog reception, and that of many hundreds of thousands of others, was definitely better. Good on you if Ohio is the exception.
willcail said:
Again, not relevant to our discussion. We're talking about DTV here, not cable (which, BTW did not have the delay) or satellite (which did).
willcail said:
My VHF channels, of which there are four, are all negatively affected by a host of signal issues including late afternoon sunshine! Even with a rooftop antenna positioned 8 line-of-sight miles from the tower they all have PQ issues. That, my dear friend, is poor engineering.
willcail said:
From time to time I can get Australia on my DX radio too. But we're talking about bottom line reliability and not occasional reception.
N
nightfly61
Guest
Before, my $300 Magnavox picked up at least 5 VHF & 6 UHF channels with rabbit ears. Now my $1500 VISIO HD picks up 4 channels total (2 are Public Broadcasting). On a windy day none come in or the digital splotches are everywhere. Then there's RTV with it's half second delay on audio to video like I'm watching an old Bowery Boys episode.
What I find most disturbing is that the signal tends to break up the most during severe weather! And isn't that when I'm most in need of the most current weather information?
And isn't that when I'm most in need of the most current weather information?Firepoint, I've noticed the increase in picture breakup in windy conditions here too. I thought maybe it was due to something banging around on the towers (since they were still working on them then) but it has continued and the wind doesn't have to be that strong.
I'm still perplexed at the picture dropout on VHF 7 in late afternoon when the sun is over the towers (compared to my antenna). Never saw this on analog.
And just for grins I did a survey of all Valley FP stations last evening and today mid-day on audio. Exactly ONE, MY45, was in DD 5.1. So much for another 'benefit' of DTV.
I'm still perplexed at the picture dropout on VHF 7 in late afternoon when the sun is over the towers (compared to my antenna). Never saw this on analog.
And just for grins I did a survey of all Valley FP stations last evening and today mid-day on audio. Exactly ONE, MY45, was in DD 5.1. So much for another 'benefit' of DTV.
IMO it's all to do with the band chosen and transmitter siting.
DTV belongs on UHF. Period. Has no excuse belonging on VHF any more, Band I or III. Give Band I over to the radio amateurs, and Band III to digital radio and private mobile radio.
Also if all stations for a particular area chose one site to transmit from then it would make it far easier on viewers. Install a simple wideband Yagi outdoors in one direction and get all the local channels. Reliably with less breakup.
Had we adopted DVB-T or even waited to see about DVB-T2 some interesting stuff could have been done with single frequency networks and the possibility of a decent way to multiplex three 1080i HD streams on one UHF channel. As it is, we have ATSC - it's not bad, but the newer DVB-T2 offers more bells and whistles and even with the older DVB-T there is room in the transmission protocol to alter bitrates and more so you can have less channels multicast but a more robust signal - alterations not possible with the ATSC format.
Probably in a few years ATSC will be "upgraded" to ATSC-2 or something like that and try to figure out how to be backward compatible with ATSC and offer more options to the broadcaster (more multi-cast channels with HD content, more robust signal)
DTV belongs on UHF. Period. Has no excuse belonging on VHF any more, Band I or III. Give Band I over to the radio amateurs, and Band III to digital radio and private mobile radio.
Also if all stations for a particular area chose one site to transmit from then it would make it far easier on viewers. Install a simple wideband Yagi outdoors in one direction and get all the local channels. Reliably with less breakup.
Had we adopted DVB-T or even waited to see about DVB-T2 some interesting stuff could have been done with single frequency networks and the possibility of a decent way to multiplex three 1080i HD streams on one UHF channel. As it is, we have ATSC - it's not bad, but the newer DVB-T2 offers more bells and whistles and even with the older DVB-T there is room in the transmission protocol to alter bitrates and more so you can have less channels multicast but a more robust signal - alterations not possible with the ATSC format.
Probably in a few years ATSC will be "upgraded" to ATSC-2 or something like that and try to figure out how to be backward compatible with ATSC and offer more options to the broadcaster (more multi-cast channels with HD content, more robust signal)
My Vizio LCD HDTV can pick up 20 digital 5 analog using a RCA flatpanel antenna. Comes in clear with little reception issues. Plus thats the station fault if they choose to broadcast on the low VHF band they can always petition the FCC to move to the UHF band. WSYX DT is planing to move to UHF 48 from VHF 13 when WCPX start using their digital transmitter sometimes this fall. WCPX LP digital signal on UHF 25.
Weather isn't a issue to me. Then I live in a downtown Columbus Ohio fourth floor apartment. That helps a lot.
Weather isn't a issue to me. Then I live in a downtown Columbus Ohio fourth floor apartment. That helps a lot.
landtuna said:
Just a point of clarification: we don't have a VHF 7. KAZT is a LPTV Class A station broadcasting on UHF 27. Their virtual channel is 7, because the full-service station is KAZT Prescott, broadcasting on VHF 7 from Mingus Mtn outside of Jerome. KAZT-CA just got permission to move to RF 36, so when they do, the interference (from KUTP on 45/RF 26) should clear up. Hopefully it will for me, too. I get KAZT fine, but on many occasions, cannot get KUTP, a full-power station five miles away.
Afternoons/early evening is when I seem to have problems with K38IZ-D.
Maybe it's too strong. If you're using an amplified antenna you have to turn down the gain for nearby stations.dhett said:
I have my gain turned all the way up because no stations are nearby.
This isn't actually DTV-related, but I thought I would have to quit using my one combination TV/VCR that can tape digital TV at a time I set. The one other TV/VCR that works and can be set is hooked up to cable, and I don't want to lose that capability. Even though I have TiVo, there are reasons, such as just taping part of a show, for using it. Or perhaps I want to rewind to see something again or fast-forward through stuff, and I haven't figured these functions out on TiVo. I have watched every single commercial on TiVo (imagine that!), whereas I can fast-forward through them with a VCR. but I like commercials. I miss Chad.
Every time the tape stopped taping "The Simpsons", it would eject. That only happens if there's something wrong. Twice I've had difiiculty pulling the tape out because the tape is stuck on something. But I've gotten it out. I had a hard time on the other TV/VCR that I use with digital TV--the only one so old I'm willing to risk having a messed-up tape in it--when I tried to rewind past the problem. Somehow I did it and watched everything. A new tape doesn't have the problem ... yet. I only use the problem TV/VCR for taping now, because it could mess up when I rewind or even play. The other one I could manually record with, but that would involve remembering to do it, and if I'm not home, that won't work. Plus I have a history of pixillation on the "Simpsons" station. The gain is 22 dB on that antenna compared to 45 dB on the other. I don't really want to switch the TVs. The antenna placement might also be a problem if I swap them.
To my knowledge, no station on my cable system (with the channels I pay only $8.88 for) airs "The Simpsons", and while I've probably seen most of the episodes, it's just been a long time and I can't remember. To keep doing this, I'd have to pay $300 for a DVD recorder with a digital tuner, or get a VCR or DVR and use one of my converter boxes. Since I don't want to lose the ability to watch "Roy's Folks"--also not on cable, so I'd have to manually change the station after Roy--I can't give up that converter box.
Another option would be a cheap digital TV, so then I could get a cheap VCR or DVR.
Well, then I'm stumped.
I'm one of the primary people keeping DTV-related Wikipedia articles up to date and, while I can't use this site as a source, I'm amazed there's not more coverage of these problems in magazines and newspapers. To read what I've read, you'd think everything was hunky-dory except for viewers of a handful of stations.
I'm one of the primary people keeping DTV-related Wikipedia articles up to date and, while I can't use this site as a source, I'm amazed there's not more coverage of these problems in magazines and newspapers. To read what I've read, you'd think everything was hunky-dory except for viewers of a handful of stations.
Everyone I know who is an OTA viewer is having problems on one or more stations (usually the VHF stations). And I'm not tracking the LP's at all.
I continue to maintain the DTV transition was the most helpful to the cable and sat providers. Lots of people got confused about DTV and just subscribed to render the whole issue moot.
I continue to maintain the DTV transition was the most helpful to the cable and sat providers. Lots of people got confused about DTV and just subscribed to render the whole issue moot.
Hi all,not to spoil the fun about DTV here , but I think its still a joke.as mention earlier, As said we need the upper band for emergency responders, they can have them.but as my buddy told me awhile ago.this con was used to the public in order to go ahead.will some will go to emergency responders, and the others will go to the cell and other wireless companies.channels 2 to 6 for expanded FM sounds good for me. i always had crappy reception on these lower channels on analog tv,anyway I have to agree with Landtuna on the reception problems with DTV,As said on here and other sites ,the planning stages started over 20 years ago.personally I thing the engineers have to go back to the drawing board to clean DTV up.One question I have is ,They could dump channals 2 to 6 and 51 to 69 and still have the old analog still on the air,and move all the stations on the out of core to in core channels.I remember when they dumped channel 70 to 83 ions ago. the nose bleed stations had to go downstairs to keep on the air.Anyway I have to agree on the crisper picture dtv gives when it comes in good also I like some of the subchannels they offer, but I agree on the crappy compressed video quility,to me it looks like Mpeg 1 VCD video.
In the mean time,the stores are no help on promoting DTV,instead they have all the sets on their store DVD loop playing the same old Hi -def video all time,What they should do is run a line to the roof to a good antenna with a rotor to receive the OTA stations in the area.
I remember the local Kmart and Woolco, let the costomers fiddle with the channells before buying the tv's back then.
In the mean time,the stores are no help on promoting DTV,instead they have all the sets on their store DVD loop playing the same old Hi -def video all time,What they should do is run a line to the roof to a good antenna with a rotor to receive the OTA stations in the area.
I remember the local Kmart and Woolco, let the costomers fiddle with the channells before buying the tv's back then.
K
kenglish
Guest
landtuna said:
And, sadly, many of them are watching a "Digital TV" signal that is actually ANALOG.
But, hey, they're FDAH (Fat, dumb and happy)
.I just keep having problems.
Three times last week, I had a tape get messed up in that one combination TV/VCR. It ejects when the tape stops because the tape has gotten pulled out of the cassette. And it's an effort to pull the tape out and rewind on another TV/VCR. The secret is actually to rewind quickly, for some reason. It stops if you try to go slowly.
The second time, it was harder than it has ever been to rewind past where the tape got messed up. And I lost the picture. It came back another time that happened. Amazingly, I put the tape in a different VCR, one that was messing up as well, so I replaced it with a TiVo. There was a picture. I put another tape in the VCR where the picture got lost. No picture. But somehow that got cleared up.
I thought I was home free with my third tape, but I had the VCR set to start taping Thursday night. I turned it off and ... oops. I discontinued all my taping other than "The Simpsons", so that wouldn't happen again. I'm hoping for good results tonight. I once decided if worse comes to worst I could set up a kinescope. What I can do is just remember to tape "The Simpsons" every night, after moving the TV/VCR that works but can't be programmed into the other room. The antenna is better where I tape "The Simpsons" now; I've gotten a lot of pixillation on the channel where the TV/VCR that works is now, and it doesn't happen where the TV/VCR keeps messing up. The problem is remembering! I have probably seen most of these episodes but I just don't remember them. Shame on the station that is on my cable system for dropping them, though they kept showing the same ones over and over. The station that's not on cable shows a lot of older episodes that apparently weren't on the other station.
TiVo was supposed to solve this problem, but it only works with cable or satellite, so it won't help. But now that one of my two TV/VCRs that was hooked up to cable can't be depended on, TiVo is great! I learned a few things about it. It tapes a bunch of stuff I didn't want to watch, though I may have figured out how to stop that. I was having the problem of turning the TV on and getting a blank screen with an error message. Now I know why! On one occasion as I checked off the shows that had been taped, either watching them or deleting them, I found that it was taping "Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle". I knew that wasn't on a station I picked up, so I just said stop taping. Later, I had finished processing my shows, and I got that blank screen again. Turns out "Harold and Kumar" was on. That explains everything! When I was having trouble finding "Glee", I discovered how to select my favorite channels. It turns out I should have done that to begin with, and then it wouldn't tape all these shows that aren't on a station I pick up (for $8.88 a month there are a lot of those). The weird thing was that when the screen was blank beforehand, it would only allow me to select from the channels I couldn't get.
Three times last week, I had a tape get messed up in that one combination TV/VCR. It ejects when the tape stops because the tape has gotten pulled out of the cassette. And it's an effort to pull the tape out and rewind on another TV/VCR. The secret is actually to rewind quickly, for some reason. It stops if you try to go slowly.
The second time, it was harder than it has ever been to rewind past where the tape got messed up. And I lost the picture. It came back another time that happened. Amazingly, I put the tape in a different VCR, one that was messing up as well, so I replaced it with a TiVo. There was a picture. I put another tape in the VCR where the picture got lost. No picture. But somehow that got cleared up.
I thought I was home free with my third tape, but I had the VCR set to start taping Thursday night. I turned it off and ... oops. I discontinued all my taping other than "The Simpsons", so that wouldn't happen again. I'm hoping for good results tonight. I once decided if worse comes to worst I could set up a kinescope. What I can do is just remember to tape "The Simpsons" every night, after moving the TV/VCR that works but can't be programmed into the other room. The antenna is better where I tape "The Simpsons" now; I've gotten a lot of pixillation on the channel where the TV/VCR that works is now, and it doesn't happen where the TV/VCR keeps messing up. The problem is remembering! I have probably seen most of these episodes but I just don't remember them. Shame on the station that is on my cable system for dropping them, though they kept showing the same ones over and over. The station that's not on cable shows a lot of older episodes that apparently weren't on the other station.
TiVo was supposed to solve this problem, but it only works with cable or satellite, so it won't help. But now that one of my two TV/VCRs that was hooked up to cable can't be depended on, TiVo is great! I learned a few things about it. It tapes a bunch of stuff I didn't want to watch, though I may have figured out how to stop that. I was having the problem of turning the TV on and getting a blank screen with an error message. Now I know why! On one occasion as I checked off the shows that had been taped, either watching them or deleting them, I found that it was taping "Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle". I knew that wasn't on a station I picked up, so I just said stop taping. Later, I had finished processing my shows, and I got that blank screen again. Turns out "Harold and Kumar" was on. That explains everything! When I was having trouble finding "Glee", I discovered how to select my favorite channels. It turns out I should have done that to begin with, and then it wouldn't tape all these shows that aren't on a station I pick up (for $8.88 a month there are a lot of those). The weird thing was that when the screen was blank beforehand, it would only allow me to select from the channels I couldn't get.
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