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DX question

R

radiojay1

All New York City 50,000 watt AM stations can be heard clearly during the day along the New England south coast out to the southeast end of Cape Cod, Massachusetts, over 200 miles, because the signal is coming mostly over the ocean. My question is, during the day, how far would a 50,000 watt AM signal travel over just the ocean with a clear signal until it starts to fade?
 
That's a question that's been pondered on this board before. Many who have traveled to the barrier islands
of North Carolina have reported hearing NYC 50KW stations in the daytime as well as Miami stations.
Someone else said they heard WINS in Bermuda during the day.
Maybe someone else can report further.
 
radiojay1 said:
All New York City 50,000 watt AM stations can be heard clearly during the day along the New England south coast out to the southeast end of Cape Cod, Massachusetts, over 200 miles, because the signal is coming mostly over the ocean. My question is, during the day, how far would a 50,000 watt AM signal travel over just the ocean with a clear signal until it starts to fade?
Click to expand...

If you consider conductivity of sea water is 5000 ms/m and some other factors like frequency, power and antenna height. WFAN 660 as an example, the 2.0 millivolt contour which is ample for any receiver goes about 1200 statute miles. Now if you go down to 0.5 millivolt that will be out almost 2000 miles under optimum conditions.
 
That would put some LA signals almost into Hawaii during the day...assuming that any of the 50K's sit near the ocean.
 
I want to know how far they can go too!

I'm in Tampa and I have a tenative weekend trip planned for sometime in April to Melbourne Beach. I've already found a good rate on a hotel not far from the ocean. I've heard claims of the 50kw NYC stations being heard in the daytime right along our east coast. I also would like to try for Puerto Rico too. There's at least one 50kw non-directional station they have on 810.
 
BobOnTheJob said:
That would put some LA signals almost into Hawaii during the day...assuming that any of the 50K's sit near the ocean.
Click to expand...

I was recently in Hawaii. On the beach during the day I never heard anything further than stations from other Hawaiian Islands.
 
gar fla said:
I want to know how far they can go too!

I'm in Tampa and I have a tenative weekend trip planned for sometime in April to Melbourne Beach. I've already found a good rate on a hotel not far from the ocean. I've heard claims of the 50kw NYC stations being heard in the daytime right along our east coast. I also would like to try for Puerto Rico too. There's at least one 50kw non-directional station they have on 810.
Click to expand...

I'll be very interested to find out what you pick up.
 
Yeah, I wish I could go sooner. It's like I have to check this out. If the NYC stations come in as good as they are said to in places like the North Carolina outer banks and Bermuda, something should still be heard on Melbourne Beach, I would think.

I already can verify personally a 500 mile daytime catch of WWL here in Tampa and the one time I took a drive over to the Gulf and went out on the beach, WWL had a pretty good signal, much better than here. I also attempted to hear 740 from Houston. I could hear another station in the background of 740 from Orlando and it sounded like news or talk but I couldn't get any ID, as it was SO cold from the wind blowing off water at the time. I couldn't stay out there too long.
 
And, the closer you get to the water, the better the dx gets! So, if you have a portable that you can haul outside by the waves (at the risk of looking geeky!), that's worth trying too. When I was in Costa Rica in January, the MW dxing wasn't that spectacular from the beach. Probably because I was facing southwestward toward nothing and the surrounding land has miserable ground conductivity. Sure, I got nighttime reception of stations from Columbia, Venezuela, Panama and other Central American countries. But, that's to be expected and is nothing special. Off the coast, there's not much of anything until you get to the South Pacific and ANZ. All too far for normal MW reception. The Caribbean coastline of CR, on the other hand, is much better for dxing - day and night.

That being said, right by the waves at night (~9 pm local), I did pick up China's standard time signal (with TOH morse code) over WWVH on 10.0 MHz. It didn't come in for me anywhere farther from the water than 50 feet or so. But, by the water, there it was. First time I have ever caught that SW station. So, salt water works wonders for SW bands too.
 
gar fla said:
Yeah, I wish I could go sooner. It's like I have to check this out. If the NYC stations come in as good as they are said to in places like the North Carolina outer banks and Bermuda, something should still be heard on Melbourne Beach, I would think.

I already can verify personally a 500 mile daytime catch of WWL here in Tampa and the one time I took a drive over to the Gulf and went out on the beach, WWL had a pretty good signal, much better than here. I also attempted to hear 740 from Houston. I could hear another station in the background of 740 from Orlando and it sounded like news or talk but I couldn't get any ID, as it was SO cold from the wind blowing off water at the time. I couldn't stay out there too long.
Click to expand...

It would be great if you could get out on a boat and try it.
 
5pm in January could mean a skywave was involved but I've sure never heard a signal that good and steady here so early.
 
gar fla said:
5pm in January could mean a skywave was involved but I've sure never heard a signal that good and steady here so early.
Click to expand...

Yeah 5PM in January it's getting dark in NYC, but that was a solid signal.
 
I have received WCBS 880 in Miami Beach during the day, with my feet in the water. It was weird hearing about how long the Lincoln Tunnel was backed up while soaking up the sun in Miami. The WCBS signal just goes through Queens, and then it's 100% water all the way to Miami.
 
Nick said:
I have received WCBS 880 in Miami Beach during the day, with my feet in the water. It was weird hearing about how long the Lincoln Tunnel was backed up while soaking up the sun in Miami. The WCBS signal just goes through Queens, and then it's 100% water all the way to Miami.
Click to expand...

That's amazing. Do you remember what time of day it was?
 
Salt water is conductivity of 5000 and dielectric constant of 80 wcbs transmitter located in long island sound surrounded by salt water. wnbc or what ever it is now also at that same location. main limit is static noise and diffraction but salt water almost defies inverse square law. recieved wcbs on nelms field meter set north shore of puerto rico in the middle of the day in 1963, no, I don't remember the reading but it was pretty good.
 
WCBS indeed does carry. I've picked it up in London in 1978 & various times on the west coast between the 60s & the 80s. Even today in the Chicago area at night it is the strongest of all the NYC stations.
Picking it up in Puerto Rico in the day time is by far the best day reception I've heard of.
 
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